5th ed. Eberron Artificer (Battle Smith)

[samduke]

So what I am looking for is some thoughts for a human artificer (battlesmith) overall when level wise would be a good time to leave the class for something else? and if so what to multi-class into? then how would a full level 20 build possibly look? - lets say the attributes are good enough to get into any class. sources available (anything except mtg or rick n morty)

[moonfly7]

I'd go at least till 10 to get the item crafting buff, if you absolutely have to multiclass. But the artificer is so vertasile and useful, and is already good enough in combat as a battle Smith, I see no reason to multiclass at all. Unless it's for a character concept. Always follow your character concept over stats

[Dork_Forge]

So what I am looking for is some thoughts for a human artificer (battlesmith) overall when level wise would be a good time to leave the class for something else? and if so what to multi-class into? then how would a full level 20 build possibly look? - lets say the attributes are good enough to get into any class. sources available (anything except mtg or rick n morty)

What do you want out if the build? The Artificer after the publication tweaks is pretty solid in level progression, if you do leave for something else then when you do so depends what you want the character to do.

[MrCharlie]

I'd strongly recommend you get at least level 11, because the spell storing item is so powerful. After that, you gain more attunement slots, eventually receiving an incredible capstone, but nothing vital otherwise. The level 15 boost improves a lot but isn't vital, yet that gives you only 5 levels to multi-class into.

Otherwise, Wizards work well, although only a few are worth it. Abjuration might be interesting but you can't get enough levels to be worth it; one of the draws is counterspell on the list using intelligence, but you can't get proficiecny to counter-spell and spell storing. War and bladesinger both grant good abilities, but the usual war wizard dip is much worse because of your level 7 ability being a better version of the same, limited only in uses per day (and five or six should be plenty most days). Bladesinger seems good, but can't use shields or armor and is thus actually strongly antisynergistic (artificers should be wearing magical shields and armor because it's so easy and beneficial for them to get them, unless they want to give them to someone else). That basically means that wizard is awkward to actually enter into, mostly because Artificer is such a solid self-contained class.

A fighter or ranger dip could be useful if you go for a heavy archery build, such as the battlesmith hand-crossbow build, which is particularly effective because the repeating crossbow does not require reloading and thus can be wielded with a shield. One level of fighter, or two for action surge, would work wonders; ranger levels can be taken if your WIS is high enough, although the benefits of ranger over fighter are limited to a three level dip giving an archetype (I recommend gloomstalker or hunter). It's worth noting that there are myriad ways to add HP to your pet to offset the cost of stepping off of artificer, through either aid spells, false life (using spell storing), heroism, or any two of the above. Paladin is similarly useful except for a melee build, as you can use divine smite with artificer slots to significant effect; the multiclassing requirements are extremely tough to stomach though, unless you start Paladin and step into artificer for heavy armor proficiency and dump DEX. Then it's solid.

Warlock, Sorcerer, and Bard are all poor choices for an artificer, being charisma casters. Monk is useless, Barbarian unappealing, and Druid nearly useless.

A 1-20 build might look like this;

Be a Warforged, Mark of Making, Hobgoblin, Mark of Warding or any race with generic enough bonuses to get INT and CON, with INT being more important. DEX is a bonus. Also consider any of the dragonmarked houses because of the expanded spells, which count as artificer spells and thus can be used with spell storing item-although you have some of the best possible choices already, so shenanigans are hardly necessary.

Point buy would resemble-
8 STR
14 DEX
16 CON (as we start with CON saves, an odd CON would be pointless)
16 INT
12 WIS
8 CHA

Assuming +2 CON and +1 INT from race. If you want to multi-class (or start, rather) paladin...

13 STR
8 DEX
16 CON
16 INT
9 WIS
13 CHA

The problem here is having enough STR to wear heavy armor, which you get around by not caring about movement speed because you art over-saturated with ways to cheat, and wearing heavy armor without appropriate STR (it won't cause variant encumbrance rules to trip ya up by itself, and you have bags of holding), or by being a dwarf (mark of warding). Yes, that line saying dwarf speed isn't reduced by not having STR for heavy armor matters, I'm shocked too.

The rest of the guide goes the artificer levels, but if you want to start Paladin then you just delay everything and make the same choices. It's worth noting you will be awful until level 7, at which point extra attack+divine smite comes online and you are suddenly a contributing party member. Until then your basically just a slower progression artificer with an extra action heal and maybe some more AC. Make sure to fabricate plate by 15 if you haven't got it already!

At level 1 you can do whatever, but the catapult spell helps tremendously because you can use it with acid to (potentially) deal 2d6+3d8 damage, which at level one means you just killed something.

At level 2 you pick up the enhanced defense, enhanced weapon, repeating shot, and bag of holding infusions. You want repeating shot even if you don't make a dedicated x-bow build, because being able to switch on a day-to-day basis to being ranged is very useful, and you can do so easily. If you know you will be doing a dedicated x-bow build, then you can go for only repeating shot, as crossbow expert allows you to use it in melee without penalty. If you don't want both, then you can pick up the goggles of night, wand of magic detect, or wand of secrets.

On a daily basis, you will roll out with enhanced defense and either enhanced weapon or repeating shot; if you expect no fighting, sacrifice enhanced defense for either your wand, or the bag of holding (there are a surprising number of uses).

Go into battlesmith as normal, and put all ABI into INT, or crossbow expert if your going that path.

The next decision we need is level 6, when you get your next infusions; if your DM thinks enhanced defense can only be used once (which I believe is not RAW, but which there is a valid interpretation of the text for) then pick up repulsing shield, just so you can enhance armor and a shield. Otherwise, pick up gloves of thievery and boots of elvenkind, or another level 6 magic item that appeals to you (I like lantern of revealing). Those two are extremely useful in the hands of the rogue though, and don't require attunement.

Your daily loadout now is enhanced armor, an enhanced shield/repulsing shield, and either an enhanced weapon/repeating crossbow.

At level 10 we get our next infusions; I suggest Bracers of Archery (if x-bow user), Cloak of Protection, Gauntlets of Ogre Power (Give them to steel defender) Ring of Mind shielding/Ventilating Lung (sheer cool factor), or Winged Boots. Emphasized choices are a tier above the rest, but all of these are good-many other options are usable on this list. Note that some, like Hat of Disguise or Eyes of the Eagle, aren't on here but are good items-because you can do the exact same thing with spell storing item next level.

At level 11 we take the final level before we can consider multi-classing. Note, that good stored spells include Disguise Self, Heroism, Aid, Enhance Ability, Invisibility, and Warding Bond. Enhance ability in particular is incredibly good to spam; advantage on any ability check someone wants is stupid strong.

Then we'd take a two levels of fighter.

Note; if you get spare ABI increases, take extra CON, or feats like Tough, Lucky, etc. that are just generically good.

Finally, at level 14 and 18 we choose from the same list of infusions. The best options are Amulet of Health, Belt of Hill Giant Strength, Cloak of the Bat, Gem of Seeing, Ring of Free Action, and Ring of Protection. Amulets of health aren't for you-they're for anyone who made it to your tier with a low CON (the party will love you beyond words). Cloak of the Bat just gives you an huge number of boosts, including flight. The belt of giant strength is a simple upgrade on gauntlets, so if you had gauntlets re-learn the infusion and give the belt away (your pet counts).

You will note that I generally recommended AC boosters at every possible opportunity. This is because the Artificer can easily reach maximum "normal" AC, with +2 magic armor, a +2 shield, up to +2 from items, and either a 19 or 20 base, and hover in the 25 range (giving pause to all but CR 30 beasties). You can also cast shield as a battlesmith, and can buff yourself with several other spells, giving pause to even level 30 beasties. Further, your saves are decent to great; at level 20 single classed they are incredible. And you've basically sacrificed nothing to get here, because you can take most of the other good choices as well. If you don't want these boosts, they all work on other peoples stuff, or can be swapped for versatility. With a few feats or high CON to offset your hit dice, you can be very survivable, even if nothing lets you force enemies to attack you-not being a vulnerability as a powerful out of combat character is a huge boon.

Oh, and for spells, pick the traditionally good ones. There isn't much more to that.

In totality, your a versatile, survivable, decently hard hitting, supporting machine. Have fun.

[Dork_Forge]

snip
Paladin requires a cha of 13 as well, so possible but it'd be a bit of a mess using point buy and you'd end up with tanked Dex and Wis, and mediocre pretty much everything else.

[Waazraath]

At level 10 we get our next infusions; I suggest Bracers of Archery (if x-bow user), Cloak of Protection, Gauntlets of Ogre Power (Give them to steel defender) Ring of Mind shielding/Ventilating Lung (sheer cool factor), or Winged Boots. Emphasized choices are a tier above the rest, but all of these are good-many other options are usable on this list. Note that some, like Hat of Disguise or Eyes of the Eagle, aren't on here but are good items-because you can do the exact same thing with spell storing item next level.


Do bracers of archery work on xbows? I remember something about them being longbow and shortbow only, but am away from books so could be mistaken.

[samduke]

on bracers yeah its long/short bow only from the looks of it, so from, the suggestions it looks like for ASI reasons to stay artificer at least until 12th our local gm allowed us to roll for attributes and we have made it to level 5, so after the asi my attributes look like str 15 dex 12 con 16 int 20 wis 12 cha 17: at 8th the asi could go to dex n wis... for the ranger aspect...
and on the subject of ASI - feats, any solid suggestions on the thought for possible feats, going to 12th as Human (mark of making) Artificer (Battlesmith) ?

[moonfly7]

on bracers yeah its long/short bow only from the looks of it, so from, the suggestions it looks like for ASI reasons to stay artificer at least until 12th our local gm allowed us to roll for attributes and we have made it to level 5, so after the asi my attributes look like str 15 dex 12 con 16 int 20 wis 12 cha 17: at 8th the asi could go to dex n wis... for the ranger aspect...
and on the subject of ASI - feats, any solid suggestions on the thought for possible feats, going to 12th as Human (mark of making) Artificer (Battlesmith) ?

You can't really change race now, unless DM allows it. So Mark of making is actually a no go for you. But you have such high cha and strength I'd recommend going pally. Also props for rolling stats, in my opinion it's the only way to make a character.

[samduke]

oh sorry ment to say actually started as human mark of making, and 8 levels paladin has merit with the aura effect

[moonfly7]

oh sorry ment to say actually started as human mark of making, and 8 levels paladin has merit with the aura effect

I think that's a pretty decent plan, since you yet most of the infusions I'd recommend, and you get access to spell storing. To clarify I'm saying go:
Artificer 12, paladin 8.
Now the question is gonna be which paladin you want to play. Firstly, any aura will be good when thinking about your iron defender, because you can boost your living shield/battering ram pretty nice.
Mechanics wise I'd suggest ancients paladin, for the magic resist aura, but honestly you could go any depending on what your characters like in game.

[MrCharlie]

Do bracers of archery work on xbows? I remember something about them being longbow and shortbow only, but am away from books so could be mistaken.
Excuse me, I need to go beat someone up for pulling a fast one when I was DMing :smallmad:


Paladin requires a cha of 13 as well, so possible but it'd be a bit of a mess using point buy and you'd end up with tanked Dex and Wis, and mediocre pretty much everything else.

You can actually buy a 13 CHA-I'll update my build, I switched WIS and CHA and lost a point somewhere in editing or something :smallconfused: . Eh. You keep the CON and INT, which means you are 100% fine at everything because INT is your attacking stat...Once you get level 3 artificer, again. WIS and DEX dumped impacts initiative, skills, and saves, but not much else, and none of those is super vital.


oh sorry ment to say actually started as human mark of making, and 8 levels paladin has merit with the aura effect
So the reason I only recommended 2 paladin levels (and the rest artificer) is because every paladin level past 3 is only giving your saves, or ability score increases, or the paladin aura at 7. The paladin aura at 7 isn't great, the saves are redundant for you but you do get to share them freely, and given that level 5 is simply dead and level 4 and 8 are gained by simply being an artificer instead, I wouldn't go down that path personally. And the channel divinities aren't worth artificer spell progression in my opinion, let alone features. Further argument against paladin-you don't get heavy armor. You need to start Paladin.

If you really want Paladin you can easily end up with a low save of +6, with a reaction of +5, given how bonkers your array is, but it's overkill. Reaction of +5 is usually enough.

Given the array, I'd simply go get x-bow expert at level 8 and call it a day. Maybe take sharpshooter at 12, and any remaining levels in fighter. Or take +2 CON, or Tough, or Lucky, and don't use an X-Bow; again, any of the typically good feats. Your array is so insanely good that nothing needs to be improved stat wise. If you do go Paladin, maybe take +1 WIS and CHA then resilient WIS or Observant, or just live with an odd ability score on the way to maxing CHA. You could spare a feat for Heavily Armored if you want to be full melee, and I'd recommend it if this is a major life goal, but it's not necessary.

[samduke]

Excuse me, I need to go beat someone up for pulling a fast one when I was DMing :smallmad:



You can actually buy a 13 CHA-I'll update my build, I switched WIS and CHA and lost a point somewhere in editing or something :smallconfused: . Eh. You keep the CON and INT, which means you are 100% fine at everything because INT is your attacking stat...Once you get level 3 artificer, again. WIS and DEX dumped impacts initiative, skills, and saves, but not much else, and none of those is super vital.


So the reason I only recommended 2 paladin levels (and the rest artificer) is because every paladin level past 3 is only giving your saves, or ability score increases, or the paladin aura at 7. The paladin aura at 7 isn't great, the saves are redundant for you but you do get to share them freely, and given that level 5 is simply dead and level 4 and 8 are gained by simply being an artificer instead, I wouldn't go down that path personally. And the channel divinities aren't worth artificer spell progression in my opinion, let alone features. Further argument against paladin-you don't get heavy armor. You need to start Paladin.

If you really want Paladin you can easily end up with a low save of +6, with a reaction of +5, given how bonkers your array is, but it's overkill. Reaction of +5 is usually enough.

Given the array, I'd simply go get x-bow expert at level 8 and call it a day. Maybe take sharpshooter at 12, and any remaining levels in fighter. Or take +2 CON, or Tough, or Lucky, and don't use an X-Bow; again, any of the typically good feats. Your array is so insanely good that nothing needs to be improved stat wise. If you do go Paladin, maybe take +1 WIS and CHA then resilient WIS or Observant, or just live with an odd ability score on the way to maxing CHA. You could spare a feat for Heavily Armored if you want to be full melee, and I'd recommend it if this is a major life goal, but it's not necessary.


I will have to think on if I go fighter or ranger or paladin but agreed artificer 12

thanks for the advise