Tips for Zealot build?

[Mr Adventurer]

Hello I will soon be playing a level 5 Zealot. I realised that you could make an awesome kind of Templar character as a very different take on the holy warrior archetype than the Paladin; with shades of The Witcher and Michael Carpenter from The Dresden Files as inspiration. So this is what I've drafted so far. Do you have any tips on playing Zealots? Am I missing something which I really need to be doing?

Other party members are a War Cleric and an Eldritch Knight.

Variant Human Acolyte Zealot 5
Str 18
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 10

Housrule: free feat at level 1 - Medium Armour Master
Human feat - Shield Master

Skills: Athletics, Stealth, Religion, Insight, Perception

Half-plate
Shield
Longsword (silvered)
Other bits and pieces that don't relate directly to adventuring

Attack: 2x Longsword +7 (1d8+4)
Attack when raging: 2x Longsword +7 (1d8+6, first attack additional 1d6+2)

AC 19 (15 half-plate + 2 Dex + 2 shield)

Future ASI plans:
8 - +2 Dex
12 - Charger feat
16, 19 - dunno yet

[CTurbo]

I really don't like Medium Armor Master for Barbarians. I wouldn't spend a lot of effort trying to make your AC as high as possible. 14 Dex + Breastplate + Shield = 18AC and that is more than enough. Add +1 for Half-Plate if you're not worried about stealth.

Shield Master is ok if you think you'll like having the bonus action knock down. Advantage on the Str check will make it worthwhile.

If you're already getting a free feat, I'd recommend a more interesting race than human.

If you want to stick with human and grab 2 starting feats, consider grabbing something useful like Resilient(Wis), Ritual Caster, Magic Initiate, or Spear Mastery. Tough, Alert, Mobile, and Lucky are always good on anybody too. I don't care for the Charger feat either.

[Mr Adventurer]

That's interesting, just the kind of other perspectives I was looking for, thank you.

Can I ask why I shouldn't focus on AC? I figured that, for this build in particular, getting to Dex +3 with MAM would be an alternative approach to the standard Barbarian approach of bare-chesting it. (I'm actually playing a more traditional Barbarian along those lines in a different campaign so I'm keen to put some distance between the two builds.) Yes, Reckless Attack gives enemies Advantage - but, whereas I found that made Reckless attacking a very tactical choice on my lower-AC Barbarian, with a high AC it might be something that I can do more often. Advantage is mathematically, what, +5? So it's equivalent to my AC 14 Barbarian before he Recklessly attacks.

I can indeed drop the Stealth angle and choose a different Human skill, though, which would make MAM unnecessary. It doesn't look like anyone else in the party will have Stealth, so I don't want to be wandering off all the time to scout (amusing as a soft-footed giant in plate would be).

Do you have any race recommendations in particular? I liked the combination of free skill and feat that VHuman gave, allowing me to focus my ASIs on ability scores if I wanted. I did consider going ordinary Human and taking Paragon for my free houserule feat, but that seemed a bit pointless in comparison.

I do appreciate the value of Resilient (Wis), Magic Initiate, and Alert which are all very thematic for the concept I have in mind. You can't cast spells while raging, though, which I think infringes on the usefulness of M.I. enough that I'd rule it out.

What's Spear Mastery?

[Zhorn]

What's Spear Mastery?

either they're referencing the AU feat (https://media.wizards.com/2016/downloads/dnd/ua-feats-v1.pdf), or was a misnamed Polearm Master.

[GooeyChewie]

Can I ask why I shouldn't focus on AC?

In general, Barbarians survive due to a combination of high hit points and resistance to damage. Higher AC isn't bad; it's just not worth prioritizing over other options.

[zinycor]

I agree that medium armor master isn't so good, if you are worried about your AC, you will be better of finding or buying a magical shield.

If you still want to be human, I would go with resilient for wisdom or lucky in order to help against magic.

If you are going away from being human, I would consider century from guildmaster guide to Ravnica, since they aren't humanoids are immune to a couple of spells.

[da newt]

PAM, shield and spear (especially w/ a 1 lvl fighter dip for dueling fighting style +2 damage/hit) is better than sword and shield mechanically, but might not be the right theme for you. But a 1 lvl fighter dip might still be a good idea.

If I could start lvl 1 w/ two feats I'd be really tempted to go PAM & Sentinel & GWM at 4.

A 1 lvl dip in rogue might be nice too for expertise and 1d6 SA/turn if you switch to rapier. Expertise in athletics + rage = almost auto prone for shield master. If your DM allows the bonus action prone before you attack, this would be really nasty.

[CheddarChampion]

HAM doesn't boost your AC in this case. It boosts your capacity for AC.
HAM takes away disadvantage on stealth, but math-wise you're better off taking "Prodigy" for expertise.

To get the AC bonus, you also need +2 Dex. So you need both an ASI and a feat for +1 AC, +1 Dex checks, +1 Dex saves, remove disadvantage from medium armor.
Compare this to two of: GWM/PAM/Sentinel/Lucky/Str+2/Con+2/Con+2/Dex+2/Dex+2

Advice-wise, taking 1-3 levels of rogue later on + using a rapier can be good. Subclasses could be Assassin, Inquisitive, Scout, Swashbuckler.
1-3 levels of fighter can be good too. Battlemaster, Cavalier, or Champion.

[dragoeniex]

To me, it's not worth investing a lot in ramping up AC since Reckless Attack means I expect most people to hit me. 17 or so is plenty, imo. I'd rather work on getting adamantine armor so none of those incoming advantage hits can truly crit. Flavor as divine protection to taste.

With a free starting feat, you can have a lot of fun playing with what race you might like. Personally? I greatly enjoy Scourge Aasimar for Zealot. No strength bonus, but +1 con, and a 1/day ability to activate a holy inferno aura around yourself to begin dishing out even more radiant damage while the small trickle of self-harm you cause keeps your rage up for you. Ideally used during a full prep round with rage just before or as a trigger for a fight.

To me, this is a perfect match for a righteous, burning anger bursting out of the barbarian. And two free damage resistances (radiant/necrotic) and the ability to get an ally back up 1/day with Healing Hands are appropriate, divine perks.

Sentinel and Polearm Master would be two of my preferred choices for starting feat on this one.

[GlenSmash!]

Starting with Wisdom at 13 and using Resilient Wisdom to bump it to 14 is going to be a big help in the long run.

Failing a Wisdom save is a big Rage ender. If playing a defender role I would very much consider Sentinel.

Shield Master is of varying use depending on when you DM rules the shove can take place. If they agree with Jeremy Crawford it pretty much only useful if you have other melee members of the party to take advantage of it. Shoving also makes it worse for your ranged members, so watch out for that.

[CTurbo]

I really like Scourge or Fallen Aasimar for Zealot Paladins. They have great racial features and are very thematic. If you're trying to avoid the typical Barbarian races like Half-Orc, Goliath, and Dwarf, some other good choices could be Bugbear, Firbolg, or even Warforged. Of course getting a free feat to start could allow you to choose any race that doesn't have a Str bonus.

You can't cast spells while raging but you're not always going to be raging. Having the ability to cast spells outside of combat situations helps round out your character and makes you much less one dimensional. Magic Initiate would let you choose a couple utility cantrips and could always be useful and something like Find Familiar which is awesome, or even something like Cure Wounds which is normally a poor choice for Magic Initiate, but is kind of thematic for a Zealot. Same thing for Ritual Caster. Rituals give you things to do when not fighting which should only take up a small percentage of an actual campaign. Barbarians are severely lacking in things to do outside of combat.

I knew a guy that took Magic Initiate: Bless with his Zealot and when he was out of rages, he switched from Greatsword to Longsword and Shield and used Bless. It worked out great.

Spear Mastery is a pretty good feat and even works with Polearm Master now.

Spear Mastery
Though the spear is a simple weapon to learn, it
rewards you for the time you have taken to
master it. You gain the following benefits.
• You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls you make
with a spear.
• When you use a spear, its damage die changes
from a d6 to a d8, and from a d8 to a d10 when
wielded with two hands. (This benefit has no
effect if another feature has already improved
the weapon’s die.)
• You can set your spear to receive a charge. As a
bonus action, choose a creature you can see
that is at least 20 feet away from you. If that
creatures moves within your spear’s reach on
its next turn, you can make a melee attack
against it with your spear as a reaction. If the
attack hits, the target takes an extra 1d8
piercing damage, or an extra 1d10 piercing
damage if you wield the spear with two hands.
You can’t use this ability if the creature used
the Disengage action before moving.
• As a bonus action on your turn, you can
increase your reach with a spear by 5 feet for
the rest of your turn.

[moonfly7]

Hello I will soon be playing a level 5 Zealot. I realised that you could make an awesome kind of Templar character as a very different take on the holy warrior archetype.

So, reading all of this I'm seeing a lot of focus on the fact that barbarians already tank damage and how AC isn't really that important here and all that.
But I think, and correct me if I'm wrong OP, but I think, that the reason he's decked out in half plate with a shield, and optimized to bash with said shield, and be as good as possible with his half plate, is because of the character he's built.
Your playing a templar like character right?
Then you have my deepest and heartiest congratulations. I love this character concept and build. I've always appreciated a good templar, and I never expected to see such a fine idea for one made with a straight barbarian. I really like ypur nontraditional barbarian concept and the way your trying to combine your feats to fit the flavor.
I think charger fits great here, I really like that. And shield master is perfect. If I might make a suggestion: perhaps take mounted combatant for one of the levels you can't decide on, for a more historical templar feel. Plus, with you halving damage in a rage you can take hits for your horse without worrying to much about health. Also, I love the broadsides, once again, historically something that they would have used.

All of that flavor and stuff aside, I think your higher AC is a good thing. In my opinion, you have everything a barbarian meeds already, and if you have all that, and especially if it fits your flavor, I see no reason to NOT take that sweet 19 AC. Keep up the excellent concept, and don't feel pressured to optimize of you don't want too.
(Also, just a flavor idea, have rage be started by your templar praying for the strength to cut down the infidels, and then have him be an inhuman war machine with glowing eyes during rage. Just a suggestion)

[CTurbo]

So, reading all of this I'm seeing a lot of focus on the fact that barbarians already tank damage and how AC isn't really that important here and all that.
But I think, and correct me if I'm wrong OP, but I think, that the reason he's decked out in half plate with a shield, and optimized to bash with said shield, and be as good as possible with his half plate, is because of the character he's built.
Your playing a templar like character right?
Then you have my deepest and heartiest congratulations. I love this character concept and build. I've always appreciated a good templar, and I never expected to see such a fine idea for one made with a straight barbarian. I really like ypur nontraditional barbarian concept and the way your trying to combine your feats to fit the flavor.
I think charger fits great here, I really like that. And shield master is perfect. If I might make a suggestion: perhaps take mounted combatant for one of the levels you can't decide on, for a more historical templar feel. Plus, with you halving damage in a rage you can take hits for your horse without worrying to much about health. Also, I love the broadsides, once again, historically something that they would have used.

All of that flavor and stuff aside, I think your higher AC is a good thing. In my opinion, you have everything a barbarian meeds already, and if you have all that, and especially if it fits your flavor, I see no reason to NOT take that sweet 19 AC. Keep up the excellent concept, and don't feel pressured to optimize of you don't want too.
(Also, just a flavor idea, have rage be started by your templar praying for the strength to cut down the infidels, and then have him be an inhuman war machine with glowing eyes during rage. Just a suggestion)


I'm all for having a high AC, but a Barb with a shield is already sacrificing some offense for defense, and that's fine, but remember, he is sitting at a 14 in Dex right now. So he has to spend an ASI bumping Dex to even take advantage of the Medium Armor Master feat. That's literally TWO feat slots to get +1 AC.

The Charger feat isn't terrible. I just don't care for it. If it fits the theme, go for it.

[saucerhead]

Interesting idea making a Templar with a barbarian. A barb/pally might be fun, but the lack of spell slots from dipping paladin would limit the usefulness. My concern for your guy would be the 14 Con. With only three guys in your group you might want more hit points. I would be tempted to switch the Str and Con stats.
Here is a barb guide worth checking out. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?578631-Optimizing-Fun-A-Barbarian-Guide

[Sigreid]

I'd take resilliant wisdom as the feat as mind affecting spells are your main weakness/vulnerability.

[Mr Adventurer]

Thanks for all your thoughts so far everyone, I've really enjoyed reading this thread as it develops.

I've moved away from MAM (and with it, Stealth) as you're right, it doesn't give enough bang for the buck. I am still going to try and maximize AC though, it fits the character theme and I still think it's useful for Reckless attacks.

I would love to fit in Resilient (Wis). The quandary I have is that I definitely want Shield Master (I asked the DM when the bash could take place and he agreed that it could happen anytime so long as you are taking the Attack action, essentially, so it would seem rude not to actually take it after that!). But, one of the other inspirations is The Witcher, and all of the vial-like attacks in the PHB are improvised weapons - which makes me wonder if I should get Tavern Brawler, to get proficiency in their use.

I really like the idea of Magic Initiate, but the inability to cast or concentrate on spells while raging kills it for me.

I'll respond to some other points directly now as well but please forgive the lack of quotes as it's a long post and I'm on mobile:

Spear Mastery is really interesting but it also feels really untested to me. It does all sorts of things that we don't really see elsewhere (including +1 to hit!). I don't think I'll petition the DM for this one... I do freely admit that it looks like a really good feat though. It's probably good that it can't be combined with Polearm Master!

In terms of AC, hit points, and Shield Master: the other members of the party are a melee War Cleric and an Eldritch Knight, so I think we'll probably all be on the front line, all have decent hp, and all have decent AC. (I'll seek out a magical shield as well as half-plate! :smallwink:)

I'll also look into getting adamantine armour; I don't know that there will be much in terms of opportunity to do so, but I'll do my best, as that is a great catch about negating the extra crits I'll receive thanks to Reckless Attack.

Con seems OK to me, +2 Vs +3 would only be 5 hp at this level and as mentioned, I won't need to compensate for the other characters.

And, @moonfly7 - thanks :smallsmile:. Yeah, that's pretty much the plan, it seems to fit together all quite nicely so long as you're prepared to ignore the wild/natural elements of the base Barbarian class. All the other class features seem to fit someone who hunts powerful monsters too. Danger Sense even has synergy with Shield Master! Absolutely I am planning on having his rage be a holy fervour filling him with divine spirit! :smallbiggrin:

[moonfly7]

Thanks for all your thoughts so far everyone, I've really enjoyed reading this thread as it develops.

I've moved away from MAM (and with it, Stealth) as you're right, it doesn't give enough bang for the buck. I am still going to try and maximize AC though, it fits the character theme and I still think it's useful for Reckless attacks.

I would love to fit in Resilient (Wis). The quandary I have is that I definitely want Shield Master (I asked the DM when the bash could take place and he agreed that it could happen anytime so long as you are taking the Attack action, essentially, so it would seem rude not to actually take it after that!). But, one of the other inspirations is The Witcher, and all of the vial-like attacks in the PHB are improvised weapons - which makes me wonder if I should get Tavern Brawler, to get proficiency in their use.

I really like the idea of Magic Initiate, but the inability to cast or concentrate on spells while raging kills it for me.

I'll respond to some other points directly now as well but please forgive the lack of quotes as it's a long post and I'm on mobile:

Spear Mastery is really interesting but it also feels really untested to me. It does all sorts of things that we don't really see elsewhere (including +1 to hit!). I don't think I'll petition the DM for this one... I do freely admit that it looks like a really good feat though. It's probably good that it can't be combined with Polearm Master!

In terms of AC, hit points, and Shield Master: the other members of the party are a melee War Cleric and an Eldritch Knight, so I think we'll probably all be on the front line, all have decent hp, and all have decent AC. (I'll seek out a magical shield as well as half-plate! :smallwink:)

I'll also look into getting adamantine armour; I don't know that there will be much in terms of opportunity to do so, but I'll do my best, as that is a great catch about negating the extra crits I'll receive thanks to Reckless Attack.

Con seems OK to me, +2 Vs +3 would only be 5 hp at this level and as mentioned, I won't need to compensate for the other characters.

And, @moonfly7 - thanks :smallsmile:. Yeah, that's pretty much the plan, it seems to fit together all quite nicely so long as you're prepared to ignore the wild/natural elements of the base Barbarian class. All the other class features seem to fit someone who hunts powerful monsters too. Danger Sense even has synergy with Shield Master! Absolutely I am planning on having his rage be a holy fervour filling him with divine spirit! :smallbiggrin:

You said you were taking some inspiration from witcher here, and that it translated to the games thrown vials. I don't know anything about witcher, but it sounds like you could use two things here: a way to make said vials, and a way to use them.
Now, it wouldn't be out of the question for a templar to make things like chemicals or holy water, the order was remarkably interested in aspects of science and engineering(to a very limited extent) and they were warrior priests, so holy water fits.
Getting improvised weapon proficiency is easy, take tavern brawler and your done, although it does seriously diminish your AC potential, among other aspects you wanted to focus on.
As for making the stuff, the right background choice can get you proficiency in alchemists supplies for acid and fire, and then you could take ritual caster, and then take the bless spell to bless holy water.

This is, however a lot of work for an aspect of your character your likely to not use as much as others, and this area might be hard to role play and explain for a templar knight.
All that said, these thrown weapons use your strength mod, so you can add rage damage to it if you go this route.
But honestly, I've played a few characters who've mainly used the acid, alchemists fire, and holy water, and none of them ever actually took unarmed fighting proficencies, and they were just fine in combat.
My advice is to save yourself a feat, and just throw them as is. As for the tool proficiency, it's actually SRD that you can edit and completely change backgrounds to fit your character, so you can start the game with those pretty easy.

Anyways, that's all I've got right now, I'll be looking into your AC to see of we can't get you above full plate.

[Mr Adventurer]

Awesome, thanks. Couple of things though:

With shields being so awkward (an action to don or doff, not even Use an Object!), I'm starting to think about steering away from thrown vials as a thing, since I'll rarely have enough actions to use them and still be ready with my sword. I'll keep a couple on hand but won't worry about it too much.

As for making holy water, the item description says that it can be made with a 'special ritual', so I don't think you need anything else. Bless spell doesn't do it, for sure - it's not in the spell description - though IIRC it is part of the Ceremony spell for some reason.

Also, I don't think it's Strengthto throw them is it? It says "make a ranged attack" and I thought ranged attacks use Dex by default. Thrown is a quality usually applied to melee weapons which is why you'd use Strength with those weapons, but it doesn't say that as such for the acid etc. item descriptions.

[moonfly7]

Awesome, thanks. Couple of things though:

With shields being so awkward (an action to don or doff, not even Use an Object!), I'm starting to think about steering away from thrown vials as a thing, since I'll rarely have enough actions to use them and still be ready with my sword. I'll keep a couple on hand but won't worry about it too much.

As for making holy water, the item description says that it can be made with a 'special ritual', so I don't think you need anything else. Bless spell doesn't do it, for sure - it's not in the spell description - though IIRC it is part of the Ceremony spell for some reason.

Also, I don't think it's Strengthto throw them is it? It says "make a ranged attack" and I thought ranged attacks use Dex by default. Thrown is a quality usually applied to melee weapons which is why you'd use Strength with those weapons, but it doesn't say that as such for the acid etc. item descriptions.
Ok, couple things: I agree with the not using vials thing, I think it's a smart choice.
Second: you are correct, I meant ceremony, said bless on accident.
As for the throwing, all thrown weapons are strength based ranged attacks unless they say they're finesse, then they use strength or dex. So basically anything but knives does in fact use strength.

[Mr Adventurer]

Regarding thrown weapons, that's generally true, but the chain is melee weapons = Strength, and therefore melee weapons with the Thrown property = Strength. The general rules for making an attack however state "the ability modifier used for a ranged weapon attack is Dexterity". The rules for alchemists' fire etc. don't identify them as melee weapons with the Thrown property; instead, they just say "make a ranged attack" and that it counts as an improvised weapon. So for some reason acid counts more like a bow than it does a javelin, within the rules.

[moonfly7]

Regarding thrown weapons, that's generally true, but the chain is melee weapons = Strength, and therefore melee weapons with the Thrown property = Strength. The general rules for making an attack however state "the ability modifier used for a ranged weapon attack is Dexterity". The rules for alchemists' fire etc. don't identify them as melee weapons with the Thrown property; instead, they just say "make a ranged attack" and that it counts as an improvised weapon. So for some reason acid counts more like a bow than it does a javelin, within the rules.
I'm almost positive theirs a rule on thrown weapons always being strength unless stayed otherwise, including improvised ones. I'll edit this post when I find it, or don't find it, thus proving you are correct, not that it matters really, it just completely changes rules we thought to be true for a couple years.
Edit: so you are correct in that there is not, in fact, an only strength cause. It simply states that you do use the modifier you use for a melee attack for it. So you were definitely right there. But that doesn't translate to a dex based attack just because it's ranged, it's more up to DM interpretation here in my opinion. And since it says thrown weapons, including improvised ones, use the ability score you use to melee with them, we can answer the question by asking "what would hitting someone over the head with a flask or vial use?"
And in my opinion, that would be strength to wack the fool, so then also strength to throw the sucker.

But I apologise for knocking this thread off track.
Last we left off you wanted more AC. I can currently only suggest a dip into fighter for the protection fighting style, but that requires multiclassing and I don't think that choice fits this concept, although refined fighting skills does make sense for a templar. But your trying a specific flavor here, so I don't think it fits.

[TheUser]

My universal advice of "don't die" doesn't seem applicable here....

[Mr Adventurer]

Edit: so you are correct in that there is not, in fact, an only strength cause. It simply states that you do use the modifier you use for a melee attack for it. So you were definitely right there. But that doesn't translate to a dex based attack just because it's ranged, it's more up to DM interpretation here in my opinion. And since it says thrown weapons, including improvised ones, use the ability score you use to melee with them, we can answer the question by asking "what would hitting someone over the head with a flask or vial use?"
And in my opinion, that would be strength to wack the fool, so then also strength to throw the sucker.

Weapons with the Thrown quality use the same ability score. It definitely doesn't ascribe that quality to them. It does definitely however say "make a ranged attack" and "the ability modifier used for a ranged weapon attack is Dexterity". I don't see how it can mean anything else.


But I apologise for knocking this thread off track.
Last we left off you wanted more AC. I can currently only suggest a dip into fighter for the protection fighting style, but that requires multiclassing and I don't think that choice fits this concept, although refined fighting skills does make sense for a templar. But your trying a specific flavor here, so I don't think it fits.

No probs, it's my thread about my build and thrown vials might be a part of it, so it's relevant! :smallsmile:

Without multiclassing I think my options are pretty limited - I could take Heavy Armour Proficiency but would need to plan for that and change the details of my build. I guess I could take Tavern Brawler, count my shield as an improvised weapon with which I have proficiency as a one-handed weapons (DM approval likely needed) then take Dual Wielder to dual-wield weapon and shield-as-weapon and gain +1 AC that way (as a weird build...!). But the bonus action attack would compete with Shield Mastery, so I'd probably need to change my build to accommodate.

Apart from that, I think it's just magical items.


My universal advice of "don't die" doesn't seem applicable here....

I'm trying to persuade the War Cleric to start preparing Revivify, but since we're only 5th he might be reluctant... :smallbiggrin:

[micahaphone]

For one of your free feats, maybe ritual caster, cleric? Zone of Truth and other things would fit a holy warrior or inquisitor. And your war cleric will be happy they don't have to prep those spells

[Mr Adventurer]

We've had just a couple of sessions so far.

I went with Resilient (Wis), because I saw what people were saying here and elsewhere about Wisdom saves taking you out of your Rage; it's a pretty boring choice but it does fit the Templar character and I suppose it's an investment now.

I stuck with Shield Master, which has proved useful several times for the bonus action although the defensive benefits haven't come into play yet.

Edit: Oh, of course, I meant to say: my high AC definitely saved me from taking damage, and even when using Reckless Attack it's definitely shown me dividends. So I've got no real regrets in doing it, and look forward to questing for a magical shield to improve it further!

[MrStabby]

If you took resilient (wisdom) then you also have the stats to multiclass ranger if you want.

This will lose you a tiny amount of HP but some of the low level subclass abilities are solid for a melee warrior. Gloomstalker is always popular and will give a nice boost at the start of combats as well as giving you darkvision as a human. Monster Slayer adds some anti magic tools. The whole favoured enemy thing can be used for things like demons and undead to boost the holy warrior feel.

[Mr Adventurer]

Thanks, but I think I want to stick with Zealot.

We had another session. Again my high AC protected me against a significant number of incoming attacks - it made my decisions to use Rage much more tactically about when I wanted to deal damage, rather than absorb it.

Shield Master came into play again - it's just a really nice thing to have as a bonus action to add on in any round I'm in melee and not starting my Rage. The Rogue appreciated attacking with advantage. And I even made use of the second feature of the feat, when a lair action caused chains to try and ensnare me (Dexterity save negates).

We don't have a Wizard and really felt the absence as we battled a spellcasting witch in her underground lair. But we eventually made her retreat with Plane Shift.

We're level 6 now. I might suspect that I'll start to feel less effective as we level up some more but the Rage damage bonus doesn't increase for another few levels and there are no more extra attacks coming.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Hello I will soon be playing a level 5 Zealot. I realised that you could make an awesome kind of Templar character as a very different take on the holy warrior archetype than the Paladin; with shades of The Witcher and Michael Carpenter from The Dresden Files as inspiration. So this is what I've drafted so far. Do you have any tips on playing Zealots? Am I missing something which I really need to be doing?

Other party members are a War Cleric and an Eldritch Knight.

Variant Human Acolyte Zealot 5
Str 18
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 10

Housrule: free feat at level 1 - Medium Armour Master
Human feat - Shield Master

Skills: Athletics, Stealth, Religion, Insight, Perception

Half-plate
Shield
Longsword (silvered)
Other bits and pieces that don't relate directly to adventuring

Attack: 2x Longsword +7 (1d8+4)
Attack when raging: 2x Longsword +7 (1d8+6, first attack additional 1d6+2)

AC 19 (15 half-plate + 2 Dex + 2 shield)

Future ASI plans:
8 - +2 Dex
12 - Charger feat
16, 19 - dunno yet

Medium Armor Master and Charger are wasted feats. Do not pump Dex on the Barbarian or worry about AC! Charger is bad on anything other than the cleric.

The barbarian is gonna get hit, you will be using reckless attack as much as possible.

Free Feat: Prodigy (choose an Int based skill). Why? Because it will be hilarious when your barbarian is better or as good as others in your area of expertise in knowledge. I would also switch your Int and Cha, but you can keep the 8 int and get use out of prodigy.

Human Feat: Shield Master (note: devs have said that BA happens after all attacks... Its weird but someone may bring this up at the table)

I would def take a look at Sentinel.

[Mr Adventurer]

Medium Armor Master and Charger are wasted feats. Do not pump Dex on the Barbarian or worry about AC! Charger is bad on anything other than the cleric.

The barbarian is gonna get hit, you will be using reckless attack as much as possible.

Free Feat: Prodigy (choose an Int based skill). Why? Because it will be hilarious when your barbarian is better or as good as others in your area of expertise in knowledge. I would also switch your Int and Cha, but you can keep the 8 int and get use out of prodigy.

Human Feat: Shield Master (note: devs have said that BA happens after all attacks... Its weird but someone may bring this up at the table)

I would def take a look at Sentinel.

Thank you.

Contrary to what you say here, you'll see from my other posts that my high AC has consistently offered me significant hp protections across several combats so far. Even looking at the mathematics: Advantage on an attack is worth what, between +3 and +5? So even while using Reckless Attack, the character's AC is equivalent to 14 to 16. Those are still reasonable numbers. If I took off the half-plate and relied on Unarmoured Defence, the equivalent AC would be 11 to 13.

If I am not using Reckless Attack the protection is noticeable. You most often won't want to use RA when you're heavily outnumbered or otherwise facing a lot of incoming attacks; a high AC in those circumstances has been a definite benefit to me.

Prodigy was on my shortlist but I didn't go with it in the end. You'll see from the rest of the thread that I'm not playing a 'traditional' Barbarian so the cognitive shift wouldn't be as marked if I did take a focus on an Intelligence skill. It is still on my list for the future, though.

Edit: forgot to talk about Sentinel. Reading it now, to be honest it feels like it's in the same kind of "nice to have" basket as Charger; in practice I've found the Barbarian's mobility to be enough to keep me next to the foe I want. I'd be interested to hear more experiences. Getting more attacks would be great but compete with Shield Master Dexterity save boosts too.

[Flashkannon]

One thing I think might have been neglected to mention here - given your choice of subclass, you have a really great boon to put a large bow on top of your survivability-focused build (and part of the reason a lot of Zealot barbarians eschew AC) - since you have a cleric in the party, you can die pretty much without consequence on as often a basis as you'd like. In that sense, taking feats like Resilient (Wis) are shrewd, your greatest weaknesses are tied to being subverted rather than outright killed. To that end, while spells of the mind control variety might be your bane, so too are walls and difficult terrain. I'd suggest the Mobile feat, both to increase the distance you can close, as well as assist you in breaking through difficult terrain or clambering over walls. Oddly, this might combo well with Charger, in the latter scenario, leaving you able to dash as your action to eliminate difficult terrain, then attack with your bonus action.

[Ventruenox]

In that sense, taking feats like Resilient (Wis) are shrewd, your greatest weaknesses are tied to being subverted rather than outright killed. To that end, while spells of the mind control variety might be your bane, so too are walls and difficult terrain. I'd suggest the Mobile feat, both to increase the distance you can close, as well as assist you in breaking through difficult terrain or clambering over walls.
Or hope you get a Ring of Free Action, which ties to this concept beautifully at the cost of one attunement slot.

[Mr Adventurer]

One thing I think might have been neglected to mention here - given your choice of subclass, you have a really great boon to put a large bow on top of your survivability-focused build (and part of the reason a lot of Zealot barbarians eschew AC) - since you have a cleric in the party, you can die pretty much without consequence on as often a basis as you'd like. In that sense, taking feats like Resilient (Wis) are shrewd, your greatest weaknesses are tied to being subverted rather than outright killed. To that end, while spells of the mind control variety might be your bane, so too are walls and difficult terrain. I'd suggest the Mobile feat, both to increase the distance you can close, as well as assist you in breaking through difficult terrain or clambering over walls. Oddly, this might combo well with Charger, in the latter scenario, leaving you able to dash as your action to eliminate difficult terrain, then attack with your bonus action.

This is a really good point, thanks! I am wary of always being able to take damage/make an attack in order to keep Rage up; it feels like a pretty fragile state most of the time. Charger would really help keep close to enemies - the downside would be the bonus action attack competing with both Shield Master slams and starting the Rage. Mobile has great synergy, you're absolutely right. It would give me a 100' charge range even over difficult terrain!


Or hope you get a Ring of Free Action, which ties to this concept beautifully at the cost of one attunement slot.

Good catch, thanks. For things other than difficult terrain in general it does only apply to magical impediments, though!