Lvl 9 Cleric/ServantofPelor/SacredExcorsist build

[Palinux]

Hi all

Long time lurker here, not posting so often, but now is the time where I need some imput and ideas.

Im starting a new character in this long time campaign where we are now lvl 9. I will be playing a human cleric of a Sun/Healing God, equivalent to Pelor (So access to Sun Domain). I have starting wealth of 36.000 gp and no item can cost more the 8.000 gp.

I will try and summon monsters and buff the party mainly. I won't be going after DMM Persist, which everyone else is recommending. I want to try something different, and I think there is more benefit in buffing the whole party instead of buffing my own 1/2 attacks.
My Character will have a strong association with light and will have quite a bit of hatred against undead, hence the Lightbringer ACF.

Im thinking of the following:

Stats (28 point buy):
Str: 12
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 14 (+1, lvl 4, +1 lvl 8) -> 16
Cha: 12

1:1 Cloistered Cleric, Knowledge Domain, Sun Domain, ACF Lightbringer (Destroy Undead), Feat: Extra Turning, Bonus Devotion Feat (By trading a Domain): Protection Devotion, Bonus Feat: Divine Spell Power
2:2 Cloistered Cleric,
3:3 Cloistered Cleric, Knowledge Devotion
4: 4 Cloistered Cleric
5: 5 Cloistered Cleric
6: 6 Cloistered Cleric, Feat: Quicken Spell
7: 1 Servant of Pelor
8: 2 Servant of Pelor
9: 1 Sacred Excorcist, Feat: DMM (Quicken), Giving me Turn Undead again.

I will focus my skills on the following:
Balance (5 ranks), Concentration, Diplomacy, Heal (just few ranks for fluff), Knowledge (Those who work with the Devotion Feat), Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device

Items will be something like:
MWK Full Plate, Shield, MWK Warhammer

Ephod of Authority (+1 turning level) 800 gp
Reliquary Holy Symbol (+2 turn attemps) 1000 gp
Circlet of Persuation (+3 to Cha-checks (turning), head) 4500 gp
Periapt of Wisdom +2 (neck) 4000 gp
Cloak of Charisma +2 (shoulders) 4000 gp
Lesser for of extend 3000gp
Handy Haversack 2000 gp

Leaving me around 15.000 gp for more stuff - Do you have indeas?

Thinking of these spells (+ Cure & Domain spells):

0. Light, Mending, Guidance, Read Magic, Detect Magic
1. Resurgence, Lesser Vigor, Sanctuary, Comprehend Languages
2. Spiritual Weapon, Substitute Domain, Silence, Bull's Strength, Align Weapon, Light of Faith
3. Anyspell, Mass Lesser Vigor, Summon Monster III, Magic Vestment, Light of Wisdom
4. Greater Resistance, Divine Power, Recitation, Summon Monster IV, Magic Weapon Greater, AirWalk, Divine Power
5. Triad spell, Righteous Wrath Of The Faithful, Righteous Might, Summon Monster V


I have some questions about the following spells:
2nd lvl: Light of Faith spell
3rd lvl: Light of Wisdom spell
4th lvl: Light of Purity

When cast, they have to be used within the duration right? They don't stick "forever until discharged", right? So I would probably have to quicken cast them, before I try to Turn?

For summon spells, I will focus on the following monsters:
I: Dog
II: Celestial Riding Dog
III: Celestial Dire Badger
IV: Celestial Lion
V: Hound Archon

I think these are the best options for summons?

This should give me plenty of skills and spells. Two pools of Turn+Destroy Undead to fuel Quicken DMM and Protection Devotion. Each pool will be 3+3 Cha+4 Feat+2 item = 12, giving me 24 turn attempts to fuel 4 Quicken spells and 1 extra use of protection devotion, while still having 1 use for Divine Spell Power or the possibility of mixing it all up.

So will my Turning be good enough? With only 4 Turning levels (1Sacred Ex + 2ServantofPelor + item) and an mediocore check of (3 CHA + 3 item + 2 knowledge) I should only count on turning undead of 4-5 max HD and the Turning damage will only be 2d6+3+3 = average og 13 HD affected. Normal turning should only be used with the Greater Turning granted by Sun Domain and improved by Servant of Pelor PrC, so that undeads will be destroyed.

Destroy Undead will be 6d6 damage and Will DC 19 for half, unless I can boost it with Light of Faith.

Given my build, will the feat Divine Spell Power be of enough use?

What else could I spend my GP on and did I miss some great spells?

I look forward to some input:smallsmile:

[Anthrowhale]

I think you should consider Quicken Turning from Libris Mortis/Complete Divine.
You can turn or rebuke undead as a free action. You may still make only one turning attempt per round. It's much more efficient to quicken turning than it is quicken spells.

I'm also not understanding your math around turning level as Cloistered cleric fully contributes to turning level.

If you did DMM[Persist], then you would need only 1 spell (Divine Power) to be relevant in combat.

Why aren't you trading your Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion? Instead of picking up Knowledge Devotion directly? Note that you can trade it at later levels.

Divine Spell Power is certainly useful. The Heighten Turning feat would make it more reliable if you want to avoid DMM[Persist].

[Biggus]

If you want to improve your turning, you might want to consider a Talisman of Undead Mastery (Magic Item Compendium p.188) which can increase your turning level by 2-4, 1-3 times a day for 3,000GP. As Anthrowhale says though, Cloistered Cleric levels work like normal Cleric levels for turning.



Divine Spell Power is certainly useful. The Heighten Turning feat would make it more reliable if you want to avoid DMM[Persist].

It's debatable whether Heighten Turning works with DSP, as it specifies you subtract the number you add to your turn check to your turning damage roll, and you don't make a turning damage roll when you use DSP.

[Palinux]

I think you should consider Quicken Turning from Libris Mortis/Complete Divine. It's much more efficient to quicken turning than it is quicken spells.

I'm also not understanding your math around turning level as Cloistered cleric fully contributes to turning level.

If you did DMM[Persist], then you would need only 1 spell (Divine Power) to be relevant in combat.

Why aren't you trading your Knowledge Domain for Knowledge Devotion? Instead of picking up Knowledge Devotion directly? Note that you can trade it at later levels.

Divine Spell Power is certainly useful. The Heighten Turning feat would make it more reliable if you want to avoid DMM[Persist].

Quicken Turning could be usefull. But I also want to quicken spells :)

I didn't think that my cloistered cleric levels would count to turning levels, since I traded away my Turn Undead for Destroy Undead feature? Unless they stack for both?

Want the knowledge domain to have all the knowledge skills for Knowledge Devotion feat.

[Palinux]

If you want to improve your turning, you might want to consider a Talisman of Undead Mastery (Magic Item Compendium p.188) which can increase your turning level by 2-4, 1-3 times a day for 3,000GP. As Anthrowhale says though, Cloistered Cleric levels work like normal Cleric levels for turning.



Great, Exactly what I needed. Great talisman.:smallsmile:

So my levels stack, even if my Cloistered Cleric don't have Turn Undead feature?

[Cygnia]

Odd question, but do you even know if you'll even be facing undead?

[Palinux]

Odd question, but do you even know if you'll even be facing undead?

We have encountered them before, and it's kinda in the backstory of the character to have some tricks against undead. But ofc, I could settle with Destroy Undead and spend all my GP on something else. Just don't have so many ideas of whay to spend the GP on. Not used to having so much GP to play around with.

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Cloistered makes changes to cleric. All normal cleric features are there except the changes listed under cloistered.

I am curious why no DMM persist if you're planning on buffing allies.

[Palinux]

Cloistered makes changes to cleric. All normal cleric features are there except the changes listed under cloistered.

I am curious why no DMM persist if you're planning on buffing allies.

I think DMM Persist with two pools of Turn Attempts is too powerful for the game we are playing, so I want to build something else.

I don't have Turn Undead as Cloistered Cleric, since I switched to the ACF Lightbringer Destroy Undead (to get two turning pools to power quicken DMM and Protection Devotion). That is why I'm unsure if Cloistered Cleric levels stack for Turn Undead.

[DarkSoul]

If you're not worried about getting into combat on your own, you can probably skip knowledge devotion altogether. Extra turning might be worth looking at.

[Anthrowhale]

Cloistered cleric levels would not give Turn Undead if you trade for the Lightbringer Cleric ACF. Furthermore, the RSoP levels would not increase your destroy undead damage.

I think you should decide if you want to optimize for turning or DMM. These are quite different things, since DMM is optimized by maximizing the number of applicable turn pools while turning is optimized by maximizing the turning level, effect, and power. Right now, it seems like your primary focus is DMM[Quicken] which makes you not particularly compelling at actually turning undead. Is that the intention? (It's a bit odd with Radiant Servant of Pelor.) A very reasonable thing to do if DMM[Persist] is to powerful with two pools is to shift over to one pool and get a much more powerful Turn Undead.

W.r.t. Heighten Turning for Divine Spell Power---it indeed looks like that doesn't work.

[Biggus]

So my levels stack, even if my Cloistered Cleric don't have Turn Undead feature?

Hmm, good question. I don't have Expedition to Castle Ravenloft so I didn't realise you'd traded away turn undead. A strict reading would probably say no, but I think this is in "ask your DM" territory.

[RNightstalker]

A nightstick wouldn't hurt.

[bean illus]

..., hence the Lightbringer

1:1 Cloistered Cleric, Knowledge Domain, Sun Domain, ACF Lightbringer (Destroy Undead), Feat: Extra Turning, Bonus Devotion Feat (By trading a Domain): Protection Devotion, Bonus Feat: Divine Spell Power
2:2 Cloistered Cleric,
3:3 Cloistered Cleric, Knowledge Devotion
4: 4 Cloistered Cleric
5: 5 Cloistered Cleric
6: 6 Cloistered Cleric, Feat: Quicken Spell
7: 1 Servant of Pelor
8: 2 Servant of Pelor
9: 1 Sacred Excorcist, Feat: DMM (Quicken), Giving me Turn Undead again.

It's a fun build. I've done it a bit like that. But turning after feels like optimizing something ... that can't be optimized. Too much of it and ... you blast minions?
Don't worry, I'm sure it's fine. Read these folks advice though.



I will focus my skills on the following:
Balance (5 ranks), Concentration, Diplomacy, Heal (just few ranks for fluff), Knowledge (Those who work with the Devotion Feat), Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device. ... This should give me plenty of skills ... /quote]

And you will have 8 skill points. Concentration, umd and the knowledges are ... much less effective if not maxed. Think carefully about that. Perhaps leave it to your face and scout.

[QUOTE=Palinux;24284886]
Two pools of Turn+Destroy Undead to fuel Quicken DMM and Protection Devotion. Each pool will be 3+3 Cha+4 Feat+2 item = 12, giving me 24 turn attempts to fuel 4 Quicken spells and 1 extra use of protection devotion, while still having 1 use for Divine Spell Power or the possibility of mixing it all up.

So will my Turning be good enough? With only 4 Turning levels (1Sacred Ex + 2ServantofPelor + item) and an mediocore check of (3 CHA + 3 item + 2 knowledge) I should only count on turning undead of 4-5 max HD and the Turning damage will only be 2d6+3+3 = average og 13 HD affected. Normal turning should only be used with the Greater Turning granted by Sun Domain and improved by Servant of Pelor PrC, so that undeads will be destroyed.

Destroy Undead will be 6d6 damage and Will DC 19 for half, unless I can boost it with Light of Faith.


It feels a bit much for maybe 20 dam to minions. There are some suggestions here, and i would try to streamline it with those.

Remember, you won't always fight undead, and you're approaching levels where turning might be less effective against bbeg. Be ready to do other things.

[Palinux]

So I played a few sessions with my cleric.

Firstly, the turning aspect didn't turn up so much, so mostly the two pools of turning were used to power up Protection Devotion and DMM:Quicken on the spells. I also found it quite nice to use turning attemps with Divine Spell Power to increase caster level -> nice to have 4d6 extra dmg with flame strike or a few minutes/hours longer duration on the buffs.

My skills I ofc had to focus more and a few also pointed out, so mostly only Concentration, Diplomany, Knowledge, Spellcraft and 1 rank in UMD. Knowledge skills were pretty dope, and I took collectors of stories to boost them even more. The way its run, we use knowledge to determine what our characters know about the various monsters, so that worked quite nicely. Knowledge Devotion feat was nice, but for sure not a need to have at all.

The few levels of Radiant Servant of Pelor allows me to actually use heavy armor, which is quite nifty for the AC boost. I can also use martial weapons, so 1-2 extra dmg there from melee...

I didn't get any nightsticks, but for sure they would really compliment the build with 2 turning pools.

Surprisingly, the Circlet of Persuasion has been the most usefull item, since I ended up mostly using Diplomacy checks (outside of Knowledge) so definately a fan of that item.