2 years of downtime + Pot of Awakening Infusions = Business Empire?

[Damon_Tor]

So the DM for a campaign of ours has informed us there will be a two-year time-jump between the end of this campaign and the next. I'm an artificer.

We use the Xanathar's rules for downtime and crafting. We use the latest rules as they release, so unfortunately being an artificer doesn't actually provide any benefit for crafting magic items until 10th level (and the rules for selling magic items is complicated and annoying anyway)

So my current plan is to set up shop as a blacksmith, and I figured I could create a pot of awakening infusion to grow an awakened shrub and train it as a blacksmith (or a related skill: it could do the woodcarving or leatherworking if it was understandably uncomfortable around the forge). In this way it could "collaborate" with me and reduce smithing time by half. Of course I realized that after I had created my first shrub, why would I stop there? If I can create twice as much gear with one collaborator, why not create three times as much gear with two? Or more? What was the limit here? Is there one?

Two years is 146 five-day workweeks, and each pot of awakening takes 30 days (six workweeks) to grow a shrub, and then it takes 10 workweeks (for both the teacher and the student) to train a shrub to become proficient with a tool. But it's also relevant that once the shrubs were trained, they could train each other.

So I did what any neurotypical person would do and I made a spreadsheet, tracking the number of days growing, learning, teaching and crafting me and each of my shrubs would be spending over two years, with each workweek spent crafting yielding 25 gp worth of weapons, armor, and other metal, wood and leather goods.

The result is, after two years of this, I would have 12 awakened shrubs trained in leatherworking, 12 awakened shrubs trained in woodworking, and 34650 gp worth of goods.

[moonfly7]

This is amazing, genius, and foolproof. I'm stealing this idea. Thank you, and I'm not sorry.

[stoutstien]

This is amazing. I still think the veterans cane wins in pure income but this has way more world building potential.

[moonfly7]

Question, do you mean just the pot of awakening magic item? Because I just checked, and unless I missed it it isn't an infusion.

[Anderlith]

How many Pots do you have active at any one time?

[Mjolnirbear]

Question, do you mean just the pot of awakening magic item? Because I just checked, and unless I missed it it isn't an infusion.

Ppt of Awakening is common.

You can use Replicate Magic Item to make any common item, IIRC

[stoutstien]

Question, do you mean just the pot of awakening magic item? Because I just checked, and unless I missed it it isn't an infusion.

You can make any of the common magical items from Xanathar starting at lv 2.

[Damon_Tor]

How many Pots do you have active at any one time?

Just one. We've ruled you can't have the same infusion on more than one item at once. We're aware there are other interpretations of that particular line of text, but the intent seems clear enough.

[Anderlith]

Have you considered buying more or hiring an Artificer apprentice to not only help you work, but also help train & create more shrubsmiths?

[Chaosmancer]

I assume this is working under the assumption that the breaking of the pot just lets you infuse a new pot with your long rest infusion.

My only recommendation from this is to avoid making them smiths, with a vulnerability to fire and a strength of 3, they would make very poor smiths. Leatherworkers might be fun though.

I think the line "Absent commands from you, it does nothing." could get you in trouble, because it leans into a type of roboticism that can always lead to trouble, but otherwise it could be fun.

[AdAstra]

They might also start to get a little less friendly towards you if you keep making them work with fire and dangerous chemicals with no compensation. If they escape, there’s not a whole lot you can do about it without being more trouble than it’s worth.
With a little creative interpretation of orders, maybe the shrubs will unionize, or maybe a shrub will learn a little too well from you and become an artificer, and learn to make shrubs of its own...
I could see this leading to a few fun adventures.

[Damon_Tor]

Have you considered buying more or hiring an Artificer apprentice to not only help you work, but also help train & create more shrubsmiths?

I can't think of a reason anyone capable of duplicating my methods would settle for working for me. Luckily, as far as I can tell I'm the only artificer in the setting.

[Anderlith]

The only real flaw I can find to this plan is coming up with 24 Smurf-like plant based pun names & personalities.

Brushbeard (the “manly” one)
Woody (the wild one)
Nettles (the smart & neurotic one)
Cherry (the sweet one)
Ol’ Hickory (the first one)
Ash (the goth one)
Frass (the sassy one)
Shrubert (the annoying one)
Willow (the fun one)
Berry (the easy going one)
Ri-Charred (the one who took up blacksmithing)
Etc.

Also, you might need to figure out what shrubs like to do when they aren’t working & plan to give them days off.

[moonfly7]

Also, these guys would be awesome scouts/ spies. I mean seriously, you can't tell the difference between them and shrubs when they're still.

[Damon_Tor]

They might also start to get a little less friendly towards you if you keep making them work with fire and dangerous chemicals with no compensation. If they escape, there’s not a whole lot you can do about it without being more trouble than it’s worth.
With a little creative interpretation of orders, maybe the shrubs will unionize, or maybe a shrub will learn a little too well from you and become an artificer, and learn to make shrubs of its own...
I could see this leading to a few fun adventures.

I intend to pay them a "modest lifestyle", which is 1 gp a day.

[Chaosmancer]

I intend to pay them a "modest lifestyle", which is 1 gp a day.

Teaching living plants capitalism... the druids must be crying themselves to sleep.

[moonfly7]

Teaching living plants capitalism... the druids must be crying themselves to sleep.
Are you kidding? He's paying them living wages, teaching them valuable trades, and he's not even big business, he's a single artisan going out of his way to improve the lives of these otherwise jobless plants. The druids would love this guy.

[JackPhoenix]

The biggest issue I can see would be the GM could rule shrubs lack hands or similar appendages capable of fine manipulation, making them unsuitable any form of complex work.

[AdAstra]

Are you kidding? He's paying them living wages, teaching them valuable trades, and he's not even big business, he's a single artisan going out of his way to improve the lives of these otherwise jobless plants. The druids would love this guy.

If he’s putting them to work smithing metal and tanning leather, perhaps not. Also considering they wouldn’t even exist as conscious entities without his interference, I’m not sure you could call them “jobless” before. Don’t forget they can’t do anything other than follow your commands, so they’re essentially slaves, slaves with 10 intelligence and presumably minds of their own at that.

I do wonder what a shrub would do with their 1 gold piece a day (especially since by RAW they can’t spend it without you telling them to). Maybe they’ll put it in the strike fund.

[Fable Wright]

Are you kidding? He's paying them living wages, teaching them valuable trades, and he's not even big business, he's a single artisan going out of his way to improve the lives of these otherwise jobless plants. The druids would love this guy.

You say that now, but when the Druid realizes what a Staff of Awakening can do, you're going to have Shrub Unions on your hand. And the trees in the city park are going to start asking for a salary, and the nearby forest is going to protest the lumberjacks. Plant lives matter.

[Lunali]

Keep in mind that you're going to need to spend a significant portion of that gold on a workspace large enough for that many creatures to work, likely by expanding or adding new franchises as you get new minions.

[moonfly7]

You say that now, but when the Druid realizes what a Staff of Awakening can do, you're going to have Shrub Unions on your hand. And the trees in the city park are going to start asking for a salary, and the nearby forest is going to protest the lumberjacks. Plant lives matter.
Exactly. But you know who they won't protest? The person who taught them valuable skills, and offered to pay them before anyone else. From what I can tell, the OP has enough trees that they'd never have to work super long hours, abd he's still paying them, like, a commoners week wages a day. If anything, the OP would start the tree union to protect his outsourced shrubs.

[Damon_Tor]

Keep in mind that you're going to need to spend a significant portion of that gold on a workspace large enough for that many creatures to work, likely by expanding or adding new franchises as you get new minions.

In the short term we solve that problem by working in shifts. We don't need all 24 in the workshop at once, we can have 12 working an 8 hour shift in the morning, then the other 12 working an 8 hour shift in the afternoon/evening. They're already split by task: half work leatherworking while the other half do woodworking. So they aren't competing for the same materials: assuming I would want to have facilities for both woodworking and leatherworking anyway (and I do) then there's only six shrubs working in each at once, and there are easily six discrete tasks for each of those specialties, so one of the leatherworkers will be tanning, another curing, another dying, another etching, another stitching, another studding. A production line, if you will.

At some point, yes, I will have to open another branch somewhere else, not only because I run out of room for my workers, but also because I will start saturating the market. At that point I'll hire a smith (not an artificer) to take over the first branch while I move to another city to open up a new shop there.

[Anderlith]

Open up a branch

I hope this was intentional

There is nothing wrong with Capitalism. A fair day’s wage for a fair day’s work. It’s meritocratic & fair. As long as he doesn’t start lobbying the guilds & kings to mess the economy up & hide his taxes in off shore merfolk banks.

I suggest using the sidekick rules on at least one shrub to be the “Lead Branch Manager”

[Damon_Tor]

The biggest issue I can see would be the GM could rule shrubs lack hands or similar appendages capable of fine manipulation, making them unsuitable any form of complex work.

Selecting the right shrub would be important, certainly. And I could always grow my own as well, prune them to the specifications required. A ficus would be ideal, I think: their droproots can be manipulated while they're growing to "sculpt" the plant in a variety of ways. Presumably the plants continue to grow normally even after they're awakened, but we can teach them to "groom" themselves as a part of their routine. Just like humans clip their fingernails and cut their hair, an awakened ficus will keep its fingers at an appropriate length for the task at hand.

On a related note, if we assume the awakening process does not halt the normal growth of the plant (and there's no reason to believe it does) then can we assume that if enough time passes the Awakened Shrubs will one day grow into Awakened Trees? Awakened Shrubs are not meaningful for combat purposes, but Awakened Trees certainly are. Given enough time and the proper species of plant, could we grow our own army?

[micahaphone]

-Shrubs are entitled to all the value they create.

-Shrubs of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your botanical chains.

-To be radical is to grasp things by the root

-let the means of production be seized by the grasses.

____________
I'm having far too much fun with this.

[LordEntrails]

Until the existing guilds get a whiff of what's going on and start protesting as you are putting "real people" out of work. And of course since you are flood the market, the price of the goods you make will plummet and you won't be able to give them away. And then once you start exporting so you can raise the price again the neighboring communities will place tariffs on your goods to protect their workers, again making your stuff worthless.

The rules shouldn't be abused as you are trying because they are not intended to allow for such shenanigans. Instead downtime means you can make a little bit based on your own skills, but they can't be extrapolated. In other words, no matter how many shrubs you make, you and all your minions can net 5gp per day (or whatever the number is). Doesn't matter if you do that yourself, or if you build a business empire of 1 million "employees" in the end, your profit is set.

[LordEntrails]

Selecting the right shrub would be important, certainly. And I could always grow my own as well, prune them to the specifications required.

Bodily mutilation for your own financial gain! Shrubs unite! We are perfect just the way we grow! Kill the artificer that wishes to mutilate our young for his own gain!

[moonfly7]

Until the existing guilds get a whiff of what's going on and start protesting as you are putting "real people" out of work. And of course since you are flood the market, the price of the goods you make will plummet and you won't be able to give them away. And then once you start exporting so you can raise the price again the neighboring communities will place tariffs on your goods to protect their workers, again making your stuff worthless.

The rules shouldn't be abused as you are trying because they are not intended to allow for such shenanigans. Instead downtime means you can make a little bit based on your own skills, but they can't be extrapolated. In other words, no matter how many shrubs you make, you and all your minions can net 5gp per day (or whatever the number is). Doesn't matter if you do that yourself, or if you build a business empire of 1 million "employees" in the end, your profit is set.

Ummm, what kind of sad game do you play? As a DM, I'm at my happiest when rules are exploited through fun, creative ideas like this. This is, in my opinion, how you give a world life and get the party to make it feel real. I personally encourage this behaviour, and every player and DM I know would see this as fun and way more than Ok. Maybe we're just weird though

[Fable Wright]

Ummm, what kind of sad game do you play? As a DM, I'm at my happiest when rules are exploited through fun, creative ideas like this. This is, in my opinion, how you give a world life and get the party to make it feel real. I personally encourage this behaviour, and every player and DM I know would see this as fun and way more than Ok. Maybe we're just weird though

I'm going to agree with this. This is an excellent plot hook that I'd love to encourage, since the party has suddenly started an industrial revolution with plants. They will make enemies with the guilds, of course, and rivals with Druids, deal with suppliers and buyers to get around guild-based embargoes and there will be uprisings and such, but... man, it's not often you get the players to write their own plots like this, is it?

[moonfly7]

I'm going to agree with this. This is an excellent plot hook that I'd love to encourage, since the party has suddenly started an industrial revolution with plants. They will make enemies with the guilds, of course, and rivals with Druids, deal with suppliers and buyers to get around guild-based embargoes and there will be uprisings and such, but... man, it's not often you get the players to write their own plots like this, is it?
No it isn't. It's stuff like this that makes legendary stories. But it can only happen if the player is fun and smart, and the DM wants to encourage them to have fun above anything else.
Think tale of an industrious rogue. This is basically how the salt mine started.

[Chaosmancer]

The rules shouldn't be abused as you are trying because they are not intended to allow for such shenanigans. Instead downtime means you can make a little bit based on your own skills, but they can't be extrapolated. In other words, no matter how many shrubs you make, you and all your minions can net 5gp per day (or whatever the number is). Doesn't matter if you do that yourself, or if you build a business empire of 1 million "employees" in the end, your profit is set.

What rules are being "abused" here?

The only stretch is whether the Artificer can make a second pot after the first one breaks, but the Infusion rules allow you to transfer the enchantment of any item, so there is no reason to assume they can't.

You could do the same thing with the Awaken spell, really, so this isn't even an artificer unique plan. Though, I will say, it does seem odd that they created the Pot as a common item to replicate a spell that costs 1,000 gp to cast.


And, as to your assertion that the profit is "set" that is a false reading of the rules.

Xanathars says that a worker can do 50 gp of work over a workweek (5 days, so 10 gp a day). They follow this by saying multiple characters can collaborate and split the time needed. So, if 5 characters work, they can do 50 gold of work in a day. Their profit over the course of the workweek would therefore be raised from 50 to 250. This follows the rules exactly.

And, assuming someones profit is set by those rules, also ignores that the OP could likely be making far more money just by selling spellcasting services. You can make as much as 50 gold from casting a second level spell, which could be 10 minutes of work if used as a ritual. A caster following those rules from the PHB, and getting only 6 customers a day (an hours work) could make 1,500 gold a workweek.

These aren't abusing the rules by using them in ways not intended. It is paying attention to the rules and acting logically in response.

[Anderlith]

None of the rules even stretch. A skeleton key has a 5% chance of working & once it does it disappears. Are you going to force an Artificer to be always down by one Infusion slot?

[Mjolnirbear]

Selecting the right shrub would be important, certainly. And I could always grow my own as well, prune them to the specifications required. A ficus would be ideal, I think: their droproots can be manipulated while they're growing to "sculpt" the plant in a variety of ways. Presumably the plants continue to grow normally even after they're awakened, but we can teach them to "groom" themselves as a part of their routine. Just like humans clip their fingernails and cut their hair, an awakened ficus will keep its fingers at an appropriate length for the task at hand.

*snip*

Assuming the DM's imaginary world has a ficus-like equivalent, of course! /s

As someone who grows plants as a hobby and has dabbled in bonsai, sculpting a plant takes a very long time. It's something you'll want to do before the awakening, and it takes years. It doesn't need training from seed; you generally take a mature specimen, chop half of it off, and wire the remaining branches until they grow in that shape permanently.

Still, nothing says they need fingers nor hands. Octopi are incredibly dextrous, enough to unscrew jars. The issue I'd have as a DM are whether its branches are strong enough to do the required task. Certainly Groot is strong enough, but is baby Groot? Look how fine those twigs are. You can break them by brushing against them accidentally; the branches that don't break will simply bend. It does have only a Strength of 3.

The solution I'd propose to make this foolproof is something less physical. Throwing a pot is pretty easy. Writing on a page is too. Sharpening weapons is more about precision than strength. You could ask your DM if they can selectively grow like Groot; that could be a form of 'woodworking' and it's quite arguable in settings with a livewood equivalent. Mixing ingredients is easy on the twigs too I'd bet.

Imagining negotiating with a dryad to awaken its tree (very young, shrub-like tree) so that the dryad has a more active and equal partner?

[Chaosmancer]

None of the rules even stretch. A skeleton key has a 5% chance of working & once it does it disappears. Are you going to force an Artificer to be always down by one Infusion slot?

I completely agree, and pointed out something similar in my next paragraph, but I could see the argument that making what was supposed to be a one use only item into a daily use item is pushing the rules a little.

But, the benefits of being an artificer

[Chaosmancer]

Imagining negotiating with a dryad to awaken its tree (very young, shrub-like tree) so that the dryad has a more active and equal partner?

Oooh, that is a fascinating idea. I love it.

[KorvinStarmast]

What complications did you roll in Xanathar's? The complications in XGTE are not exhaustive; any down time activity, like running a business, would if pursued for two years result in a complications roll.

Also: cost of goods sold. :smallwink:

Also: taxes

Also: As noted previously, the cost of a building to house your enterprise in.

Also: the local thieves guild may take an interest in this profitable business. :smallbiggrin:

Just a few ideas for you and your DM to mull over.

Lastly: who is buying all of this stuff?

D&D isn't built as an economics emulation. Once you get beyond personal use, you are well beyond the bounded accuracy of this game's system's strong spot, which is adventuring. There are a variety of internet articles and posts at GiTP that address "how much is a gp worth" and in each case the sane answers include the above point. A GP is a game token that is used to keep track of (a variety of game things).

So while I grinned mightily at your OP, since the visual of a bunch of awakened plants working away for you amuses me, by taking this to the extreme you open up a new mini game that the game's structure doesn't have rules for.

Which takes us back to you and your DM dealing with the other RP stuff to the depth of detail that you care for and find to be fun.

Also, you ought to be even more demanding than the local fire marshall in setting up / writing the requirements for a fire prevention system for your shop. That is in your own interest ... and the health and safety of your employees. :smallbiggrin:

[Sigreid]

I see one major flaw. You need to figure out how to do this with some kind of fungus so you can call them Shroompa Loompas.

[Crgaston]

Are you kidding? He's paying them living wages, teaching them valuable trades, and he's not even big business, he's a single artisan going out of his way to improve the lives of these otherwise jobless plants. The druids would love this guy.


You say that now, but when the Druid realizes what a Staff of Awakening can do, you're going to have Shrub Unions on your hand. And the trees in the city park are going to start asking for a salary, and the nearby forest is going to protest the lumberjacks. Plant lives matter.


Exactly. But you know who they won't protest? The person who taught them valuable skills, and offered to pay them before anyone else. From what I can tell, the OP has enough trees that they'd never have to work super long hours, abd he's still paying them, like, a commoners week wages a day. If anything, the OP would start the tree union to protect his outsourced shrubs.

Yeah, but with the 146 5 day workweeks schedule in the OP, the shrubs aren't getting any time off. I'm with Fable Wright on this one.

[LordEntrails]

Ummm, what kind of sad game do you play? As a DM, I'm at my happiest when rules are exploited through fun, creative ideas like this. This is, in my opinion, how you give a world life and get the party to make it feel real. I personally encourage this behaviour, and every player and DM I know would see this as fun and way more than Ok. Maybe we're just weird though

Well, let's see those type of games are ones we played in 35 years or so. Sure, they were fun when we were adolescents, but we have since matured out of trying to manipulate the rules so that our characters can rule the world. We gave up playing Bankers and Bookkeepers and went back to playing Dungeons and Dragons.

Downtime? We really don't give a hoot about it. It's just something that happens between ADVENTURES. We care about adventures, quests and things that we are actively engaged with, not some means to manipulate the rules when we are not engaged.

Oh, and thanks for calling my game sad. You know very little about my game, as it is now or how it was played anytime in the last 40 years. With any of my handful of current groups or the many groups in that time period.

[Lunali]

In the short term we solve that problem by working in shifts. We don't need all 24 in the workshop at once, we can have 12 working an 8 hour shift in the morning, then the other 12 working an 8 hour shift in the afternoon/evening. They're already split by task: half work leatherworking while the other half do woodworking. So they aren't competing for the same materials: assuming I would want to have facilities for both woodworking and leatherworking anyway (and I do) then there's only six shrubs working in each at once, and there are easily six discrete tasks for each of those specialties, so one of the leatherworkers will be tanning, another curing, another dying, another etching, another stitching, another studding. A production line, if you will.

At some point, yes, I will have to open another branch somewhere else, not only because I run out of room for my workers, but also because I will start saturating the market. At that point I'll hire a smith (not an artificer) to take over the first branch while I move to another city to open up a new shop there.

A workshop with 12 is already pretty massive, typically a workshop will have 1-2 masters and 1-2 apprentices per master.

[Chaosmancer]

Well, let's see those type of games are ones we played in 35 years or so. Sure, they were fun when we were adolescents, but we have since matured out of trying to manipulate the rules so that our characters can rule the world. We gave up playing Bankers and Bookkeepers and went back to playing Dungeons and Dragons.

Downtime? We really don't give a hoot about it. It's just something that happens between ADVENTURES. We care about adventures, quests and things that we are actively engaged with, not some means to manipulate the rules when we are not engaged.

Why do you have to go calling what he is doing "manipulating the rules", "Adolescent" and that he is trying to "rule the world"? Being hostile is not doing anything to help you out here.

And, you know, I really love Downtime. It is the finest time for my character to actually be involved in the world. In fact, I'll give an example from one of my more recent games that has had a lot of downtime.

We've got a DM running a "post-apocalypse" campaign, where magic hit out hometown and the worlds of Earth and DnD collided. It is a ton of fun.

The "adventures" we go on are just us fighting for survival and to gather resources for our town. We've fought through a fey spider infested forest, a gnoll horde, shadow planes pressing into our reality, a fort full of goblins. All good stuff.

The downtime has involved actually being the leaders of the town. Doing things like building defenses to protect our people, talking to people and figuring out who they are and what skills they have, contacting other groups of survivors and making deals for resources.

And that stuff is what makes the game come alive for me. We are the leaders of our town, if we just spent all our time away from town doing "adventure stuff" we might as well hand off that position of leadership and just be the warriors for the town, the town guard.

In another game I played, my character was a Jeweler and a Trader, sure, he was an adventurer to and was fighitng the good fight around the world, but he also had other things that were important to him, and a few days of downtime in a town to talk to merchants, work his trade, and gather materials for crafting jewelry let me explore that. Downtime is the perfect time for getting involved in the world and remembering that these are characters in a place and time, not just the characters we move around the board when fighting the latest threat of the week.

Honestly, I always find myself incredibly sad when I'm in a game that ignores downtime. I went a played a married character, a guy who was a guard for 40 years and grew up in this city that we were told was the center of our game. We have spent more game time miles or planes away from that city than inside it, and my character's wife and family have gotten so little time on screen that no one except me knows anything about them.

Which is disappointing, because I think it would have more impact to be saving the city, if I had actually had time to show how deeply connected to this city my character is. But, it isn't "the adventure" so it hasn't mattered and I've never been able to explore anything more about my character than his class abilities.

[micahaphone]

I see one major flaw. You need to figure out how to do this with some kind of fungus so you can call them Shroompa Loompas.

Nah that's just called befriending a myconid colony. Or with the help of an existing one, grow your own!

[AdAstra]

As for rulings or story consequences that could screw over or complicate such a plan, there are a few, many of which have been previously mentioned in the thread.

-For one, while I think the idea of not being able to use an infusion a second time is stupid, one could argue that when you infuse a new Pot of Awakening, the magic of the previous one goes away, killing your first Shrub. Thus you can make more Pots, but can only have one Awakened Shrub at a time with this method.

-There are two major possibilities for the Shrubs' free will. One is that they have no mind of their own, and rely wholly on your commands. The other is that they do have a mind and consciousness (they have pretty average mental stats so this would make sense), but they are bound to follow your commands. Either of these interpretations could cause problems. Automaton Shrubs would require constant attention and would be very vulnerable to unforeseen circumstance. Sentient Shrubs are likely to chafe under your total control, and may creatively interpret orders to mess with you. If your Shrubs don't like you you'll basically never be able to leave them alone with any orders. See previous about the unionizing. It's gonna be hard to appease Shrubs given that they want not for most earthly luxuries. Perhaps free trimming and high-quality imported dirt?

The local populace or even the government aren't likely to take kindly to you attempting to replace the workforce. Shrubs are very vulnerable to sabotage due to being shrubs. Most disgruntled unemployed people are liable to not care much about knocking off some living bushes. You'll likely want to safeguard against arson and termite infestations.

If your Shrubs are of the Sentient But Bound To Your Will type, then Druids are likely to hate your guts

Awakened Shrubs have 3 Strength. They can carry 45 pounds at most, and chances are they're not going to be well suited for most manual labor. With shrub hands they probably don't have the best hand dexterity either.

[Anderlith]

snip
The whole “ignore the adventure to destroy the basket weaving economy & become rich” argument is a bit moot. He isn’t delaying the adventure. His DM gave him a year to pursue non-adventure related character goals. You’re being needlessly hostile.

snip

There is a slightly different way you could look at it. The scrubs are friendly to you & won’t do anything unless commanded. This means that they are amiable to just chill, I mean, that’s what plants DO. & they also don’t mind doing whatever task you have for them because it doesn’t matter to them. They aren’t going to unionize because no one gave them the command & they don’t care enough about anything to do anything about it. Druids might get angry but it would be for PETA levels of singleminded human projection of perceived injustices. The shrubs don’t mind. It’s like a golem. Smart enough to do what you tell it but without any drive to do anything on its own.

[moonfly7]

so, I'm going to request you tell us how this goes, I'm very interested in this and I'm grateful for this amazing idea.
But I have one question: have you considered what to do after downtime?
I'd suggest leave all of them but like, one or two back home to run the shop.
I'd suggest training the one you take to have proficiency in one weapon, and have proficiency in one armor, may be even have a party member to train him in full plate. Then give him every stat boosting item you have, gauntlets of ogre strength, and a headband of intellect chiefly. Keep him close and fight hard with your new shield brother.
Also, what subclass are you?

[Chaosmancer]

so, I'm going to request you tell us how this goes, I'm very interested in this and I'm grateful for this amazing idea.



I want to second this, I'm really morbidly curious.

[nickl_2000]

Is anyone else a little disturbed that the OP wants to train an awakened shrub in woodcarving? You are literally training a shrub to carve its own flesh and the flesh of others like it...

[moonfly7]

Is anyone else a little disturbed that the OP wants to train an awakened shrub in woodcarving? You are literally training a shrub to carve its own flesh and the flesh of others like it...
Shhhhhh. The druids might here you.
Besides, he's not teaching them to carve LIVING wood. He's more like, teaching them to mutilate bodies. Which is kind of bad, but like, stuff like grape vines kind of already do that, soooooooo.

[Dork_Forge]

so, I'm going to request you tell us how this goes, I'm very interested in this and I'm grateful for this amazing idea.
But I have one question: have you considered what to do after downtime?
I'd suggest leave all of them but like, one or two back home to run the shop.
I'd suggest training the one you take to have proficiency in one weapon, and have proficiency in one armor, may be even have a party member to train him in full plate. Then give him every stat boosting item you have, gauntlets of ogre strength, and a headband of intellect chiefly. Keep him close and fight hard with your new shield brother.
Also, what subclass are you?

The implications of this when the shrub uses its False Appearance is hilarious.

"Hey look, someone left a bunch of magical gear in this bush"

"SURPRISE ATTAAAAACK"

[moonfly7]

The implications of this when the shrub uses its False Appearance is hilarious.

"Hey look, someone left a bunch of magical gear in this bush"

"SURPRISE ATTAAAAACK"

This is more or less what I'm doing with this idea now. I totally took this thread, and. Used it as a base for my artificers new companion, a creature he taught all of his tool proficencies, I have named him "boosh".
Boosh is friend. Boosh is best boi.

[Amechra]

This is more or less what I'm doing with this idea now. I totally took this thread, and. Used it as a base for my artificers new companion, a creature he taught all of his tool proficencies, I have named him "boosh".
Boosh is friend. Boosh is best boi.

Yes, but is he mighty?

[moonfly7]

Yes, but is he mighty?
He will be after I strap gauntlets of ogre strength on him. Although we need to find a way to boost his HP.

[Dork_Forge]

He will be after I strap gauntlets of ogre strength on him. Although we need to find a way to boost his HP.

An amulet of health, the Aid spell and a SSI loaded with False Life, Boosh is beasty boi.

[moonfly7]

An amulet of health, the Aid spell and a SSI loaded with False Life, Boosh is beasty boi.
well, I'm an alchemist, so I can give him plenty of elixers, and this is my back up character, and he's 1 level away from the 2d6 temp hit Points per elixer ability. And since my character is so lonely he literally made Boosh to be his only friend, I'll be keeping him close enough that I can heal him when necessary.
(Also sorry for hijacking the thread, I shall cease talk of Boosh as it is detracting from the actual conversation of the OPs brilliance)

[Yakk]

Grow the plants in some kind of manufactured humanoid frame, maybe made partially out of metal, and then awaken them.

[moonfly7]

Grow the plants in some kind of manufactured humanoid frame, maybe made partially out of metal, and then awaken them.
ah yes, forcing plants to grow in your own twisted image, your sins against the plants are well known to the druid Council.

[Damon_Tor]

Is anyone else a little disturbed that the OP wants to train an awakened shrub in woodcarving? You are literally training a shrub to carve its own flesh and the flesh of others like it...

A ficus is no more closely related to an oak or a pine as humans are to cows, and people making items of value from leather has been fairly uncontroversial for thousands of years.

Our group meets again tonight. I'll let you guys know what my DM decides about how this goes.

[JackPhoenix]

A ficus is no more closely related to an oak or a pine as humans are to cows, and people making items of value from leather has been fairly uncontroversial for thousands of years.

That's because humans and cows have different creature type, duh. Dragons may be smarter than your average peasant, but nobody bats an eye when you wear one as an armor. Do the same thing with a kobold, and suddenly you're a monster and paladins are knocking on your door.

Ficus and oak are both plants, though.

[Damon_Tor]

Well that went rather differently than expected. In a good way.

So a bit of backstory: our party's first campaign saw us restoring the throne to the rightful heir after a coup by disloyal nobles. The resolution was bloody, and with a not insignificant percentage of the nobility dead or disgraced, lands were up for grabs. Each of our heroes was given a noble title and a plot of land to call our own. Land closer to the capital is more valuable, so if the further out we chose the more we got. My Battlesmith didn't need much land, but he needed a steady supply of customers, so he selected a small parcel of land, about a city block, inside the city limits to set up his shop.

The DM rolled for fairly standard complications, which interfered a bit with the smooth operations of my business venture, but not nearly as much as a more personal complication: Galvan, my Rock Gnome Battlesmith, fell in love. I knew he would need to source the shrubs: Galvan was not a gardener, and he knew next to nothing about caring for plants much less shaping their growth in the way he would require. So he sought out a horticulturist with skill and passion, and he found Jexica. She was a Forest Gnome operating a landscaping business catering to the very wealthy. She had the skills Galvan required for his venture, and she was young, personable, pretty and patient. Galvan fell for her, and soon he learned she had come to feel the same way.

As the weeks passed and Galvan and Jexica grew close, Jexica pushed Galvan to think about his creations, the people that he, they, had created. The magic he had used had bound them to him, and while Galvan treated them well enough, they were nothing more than well-treated slaves. To Jex, sculpting these creations is an art, a passion, and in a very real sense she had put a piece of herself into each of them. She had started to think of them as her children... their children.

So Galvan set them free, or as free as any father sets his children, and the gnomes were married. Galvan and Jex named their strange children, practically of course: Abel, then Bertram, then Clyde, then Dax and so on. Galvan taught them what he knew, not as a master to an apprentice but as a father to his sons. The week went from seven days of labor to six and then five, as more and more of his time was demanded for leisure.

As noted, there were complications. Clyde told Galvan he had no interest in becoming smith, devoting himself to music instead. Frederix developed a deep fascination with the divine, which turned into faith, and he sought out service at a local temple to a god of Light. And Jaxon rebelled outright, finding himself involved with criminals and leaving silently one night for parts unknown. The rest followed in Galvan's footsteps, and worked dutifully for their family.

A small hiccup: the plants did indeed keep growing after their awakening, and while it was likely possible to stunt their growth via severe pruning, neither Galvan nor Jex could find it in themselves to hold their boys back in that way. Galvan did the math: after just a year his boys were each double his size, as tall as a human. Another year and they would be pushing seven or eight feet tall, and he knew their time working in his shop was inherently limited: he knew would have to send his sons out into the world. His family could grow indefinitely, but his business could not.

Two years after the start of this venture-turned-family, the young Prince who owed Galvan and his comrades his throne sent a messenger to meet the smith at his forge to tell him he needed his help once more. Abel, already knocking his head against the rafters, offered to accompany his father on this new adventure. His wife Jex and their other children could run the business capably, he knew, and so Galvan and his eldest son set out to face new dangers, together.

[Phhase]

Ummm, what kind of sad game do you play? As a DM, I'm at my happiest when rules are exploited through fun, creative ideas like this. This is, in my opinion, how you give a world life and get the party to make it feel real. I personally encourage this behaviour, and every player and DM I know would see this as fun and way more than Ok. Maybe we're just weird though

No, you're not weird. As a kindred spirit DM and player, I heartily support this idea. I don't understand why you wouldn't, as long as you're operating in good faith and not just trying to screw with the game, then I think fun should be allowed. Especially this sort of wacky, creative fun.

[Damon_Tor]

That was a bit more "narrative" than I intended.

So our DM encouraged us to add two elements to our downtime: a love interest and a character who could be a "sidekick". Hence Jexica and Abel. The DM decided the shrubs grow into trees over 4 years if left unpruned. 1 year makes them medium, 2 years makes them large, and 4 years makes them huge. They go from d6 for hit dice to d8 then d10 then d12 (though they remain at 3 dice until they gain sidekick levels). They gain str and con with each "sizeup" as well. So Abel is a pretty beefy boy when our adventure begins, though not at full size.

Losing three of the shrubs to "training" complications was just the luck of the draw, though I'm glad they aren't dead or maimed, and just decided to do other stuff. I wish them the best.

All in all, the business is much less profitable than originally projected (still need to do the math), being down three shrubs and 2/7 workdays, but it wound up being a really rich story, so I'm very pleased.

[Phhase]

That was a bit more "narrative" than I intended.

So our DM encouraged us to add two elements to our downtime: a love interest and a character who could be a "sidekick". Hence Jexica and Abel. The DM decided the shrubs grow into trees over 4 years if left unpruned. 1 year makes them medium, 2 years makes them large, and 4 years makes them huge. They go from d6 for hit dice to d8 then d10 then d12 (though they remain at 3 dice until they gain sidekick levels). They gain str and con with each "sizeup" as well. So Abel is a pretty beefy boy when our adventure begins, though not at full size.

Losing three of the shrubs to "training" complications was just the luck of the draw, though I'm glad they aren't dead or maimed, and just decided to do other stuff. I wish them the best.

All in all, the business is much less profitable than originally projected (still need to do the math), being down three shrubs and 2/7 workdays, but it wound up being a really rich story, so I'm very pleased.

Amazing.

Did you still make a decent coin, though?

[Throne12]

Wouldn't this business be messing up the economy?

[micahaphone]

That's a delightful story, I love it.

And the plot hooks, your other children's pursuits!

[Chaosmancer]

Well that went rather differently than expected. In a good way.

SNIP

That was AWESOME.

Dang, I am incredibly jealous. That seems like it would be an incredible set-up for future stories.

[AdAstra]

You did a great job with this, well done with your shrub family business!

[Damon_Tor]

Amazing.

Did you still make a decent coin, though?

I need to plug the new data back into my spreadsheet, but yes, I'm sure we'll do well.


Wouldn't this business be messing up the economy?

The coup, counter-coup, and accompanying unrest left the economy in a bad state, particularly in terms of needed weapons and armor. Much of the city's armed forced forces had been loyal to the ursurper we deposed, and they fled with their equipment when we retook the capital. And at our peak, our family was just 19 artisans, and we built up to that level over two years, so on average that's the impact of just 10 people, a drop in the bucket for a city this size.

[moonfly7]

Ok, so I take back all the "druids are gonna get you" jokes.
This is the first ever plant and human integrated family. He literally gave them complete free will. Druids should love this guy!
I'll point out that druids actually use awakened shrubs and trees too, and expect them to follow them around and help them out, so the OP is basically nicer than most druids.

[Anderlith]

I’m really hoping that the DM incorporates an adventure where your Gnome & Abel run into the one that left to be a criminal. One could say that scrub is “raising cane”. You didn’t tell us his name but you could have some properly thematic biblical drama if the prodigal son return...

[Darth Lyrael]

Just one. We've ruled you can't have the same infusion on more than one item at once. We're aware there are other interpretations of that particular line of text, but the intent seems clear enough.

Except each instance of replicate magic item is its own infusion. So they could take the "Replicate Magic Item: Pot of Awakening" Infusion as many times as they have slots for and have concurrent pots growing at the same time. It isn't one instance of the infusion on multiple pots, its multiple infusions that take the same magic item, since replicate magic item is something that can be taken multiple times per its own description.