How do you hack a spellshard? [Eberron question]

[HappyDaze]

A spellshard is a common magical item that is basically a book in the form of a handheld crystal. However, unlike a book, the contents of a spellshard are secured. "When the shard is created, the creator can set a passphrase that must be spoken to access the information stored within" (E:RftLW, page 279). So, assuming that you find a secured spellshard and you don't know the passphrase or have access to someone that does, how can you hack your way past this security feature? Is there an existing spell or class feature that does the job?

[Anderlith]

Same way you discover the Command word for a magic item I’d expect

[HappyDaze]

Same way you discover the Command word for a magic item I’d expect

So are you saying it's basically worthless as a security feature?

[Anderlith]

So are you saying it's basically worthless as a security feature?

Not at all. It’s as secure as any modern computer password in today’s world if you were to say that password out loud every time you logged in.

Such passcodes could be
“Cannith R&D”
“For the Glory of the Emerald Claw”
“Rosebud”
“Johnny Lute rocks!”

It’s only an issue if you’ve lost the shard & the thieves have a lot of time & resources to spend hacking it

[logannc]

Take a look at the novel Warbreaker for inspiration.

In Warbreaker, it is possible to create autonomous entities (soldiers, servants, etc) with command phrases that limit control over them. While *extremely* powerful individuals (really just one) can break the control with sheer power, for the rest of them there are a sect of individuals who specialize in the guessing and recovery of these command phrases. Essentially the human equivalent of a dictionary attack on passwords.

[Sparky McDibben]

If you wanted to beef this up, you could have the spellshard wipe after X number of incorrect entries.

[ProsecutorGodot]

If you wanted to beef this up, you could have the spellshard wipe after X number of incorrect entries.

Not the type of security I'd want on my spellbook replacement, it's barely safer to carry than a spellbook at that point when all it would take to destroy years (possibly decades, centuries) of arcane research is for someone to hold the thing for all of 30 seconds spouting random gibberish until it triggers the failsafe.

[Lyracian]

Same way you discover the Command word for a magic item I’d expect
The Identity spell?
I would probably make a difficult Arcana check as part of the identify spell.

[Sparky McDibben]

Not the type of security I'd want on my spellbook replacement, it's barely safer to carry than a spellbook at that point when all it would take to destroy years (possibly decades, centuries) of arcane research is for someone to hold the thing for all of 30 seconds spouting random gibberish until it triggers the failsafe.

Always - ALWAYS - back up your spellbook. Jeez, man. :)

[JumboWheat01]

With an axe and a lot of nerve, you can hack anything.

[Spore]

So are you saying it's basically worthless as a security feature?

Locks are not to seal your info, they are there to slow thieves down. It is reasonable that anyone who can take a hold of your spellshard gets its info after a nontrivial amount of time. Same way a bike lock/car lock does not STOP but slow thieves down. Same way a hacker that has physical access to their target can enter ANYTHING.

[nickl_2000]

The Spell Command would easily get a captive to spill their password for a spellbook. Any other charm spell would likely do the same thing. In a magical world where you can control other people a simple password isn't all that secure.

[Anderlith]

Always - ALWAYS - back up your spellbook. Jeez, man. :)

I prefer backing up my Dragonslate(TM) to the Astral Cloud. That way, I can access my spellbook from anywhere

[NNescio]

A spellshard is a common magical item that is basically a book in the form of a handheld crystal. However, unlike a book, the contents of a spellshard are secured. "When the shard is created, the creator can set a passphrase that must be spoken to access the information stored within" (E:RftLW, page 279). So, assuming that you find a secured spellshard and you don't know the passphrase or have access to someone that does, how can you hack your way past this security feature? Is there an existing spell or class feature that does the job?

Magic Mouth array, dictionary attack that sucker. Then bruteforce with syllables in the expected target language, if that fails. Might that quite a while though.

This approach can be refined with Contact Other Plane or other divination spells to narrow down the 'parameters' (length, language, etc.) of the passphrase.

Alternatively, if you are the DM and want to handwave it for your players, you can just roll it up as an Arcana or Investigation check. Aided by spells, if necessary.


The Spell Command would easily get a captive to spill their password for a spellbook. Any other charm spell would likely do the same thing. In a magical world where you can control other people a simple password isn't all that secure.

If you have the password holder captive, you can also do rubber-hose cryptanalysis in mundane non-magical non-elfgame land.


I prefer backing up my Dragonslate(TM) to the Astral Cloud. That way, I can access my spellbook from anywhere

That assumes you can trust a third party with your data spellbook. And that said third party won't shut down or something.

Of course, if you run your own "cloud server", that would work, but that's not too dissimilar from Leomund's Secret Chest anyway...

[HappyDaze]

The Identity spell?
I would probably make a difficult Arcana check as part of the identify spell.

Has it been definitively stated whether Identify provides you with the command word/passphrase or if it just tells you that a command word/passphrase is required to use the item?

[HappyDaze]

In a magical world where you can control other people a simple password isn't all that secure.

It is when everyone that knew the password is long dead and their bodies aren't accessible.

[nickl_2000]

It is when everyone that knew the password is long dead and their bodies aren't accessible.

Aren’t there spells to speak with dead where you don’t have to see/have the body?

[HappyDaze]

Aren’t there spells to speak with dead where you don’t have to see/have the body?

5e speak with dead requires the corpse (and it has to still have it's mouth). Further, the dead is under no compulsion to give a true answer if it views you as hostile--like someone that's trying to phish its spellshard passphrase.

[Anderlith]

That assumes you can trust a third party with your data spellbook. And that said third party won't shut down or something.

Of course, if you run your own "cloud server", that would work, but that's not too dissimilar from Leomund's Secret Chest anyway...

That’s why I mention AstralCloud instead of say SpellShare. With AstralCloud you’re storing it in an extra planet pocket. Instead of a Sivis proprietary space. With SpellShare you don’t technically own the spells on your DragonSlate(TM) you technically rent them from the gnomes.

[HappyDaze]

On a side note, would it be reasonable to upscale a spellshard? If a handheld crystal can hold a 320-page book, could a much larger--and less portable--crystal hold the equivalent of an encyclopedia set (an example of which might have 14,000 pages), or would it be better to just have a set of normal spellshards? In a world like Eberron, would it be easier/cheaper to make 30 spellshards, or a single "desktop" unit that contains the volume of text found in 30 such shards (i.e., is there an economy of scale issue)?

[Anderlith]

On a side note, would it be reasonable to upscale a spellshard? If a handheld crystal can hold a 320-page book, could a much larger--and less portable--crystal hold the equivalent of an encyclopedia set (an example of which might have 14,000 pages), or would it be better to just have a set of normal spellshards? In a world like Eberron, would it be easier/cheaper to make 30 spellshards, or a single "desktop" unit that contains the volume of text found in 30 such shards (i.e., is there an economy of scale issue)?

At that point I think you would have a large magic item that would store data & display it in an illusory way. Most Eberron magic items (especially dragon marked ones) use dragonshards. I could see the Scribing house have proprietary Arcanum Archives bound to their Marks, as a way to monopolize on them.

[ATHATH]

Can't you just use a divination spell to divine the password?

[JackPhoenix]

On a side note, would it be reasonable to upscale a spellshard? If a handheld crystal can hold a 320-page book, could a much larger--and less portable--crystal hold the equivalent of an encyclopedia set (an example of which might have 14,000 pages), or would it be better to just have a set of normal spellshards? In a world like Eberron, would it be easier/cheaper to make 30 spellshards, or a single "desktop" unit that contains the volume of text found in 30 such shards (i.e., is there an economy of scale issue)?

Dragonshards are rare, the bigger, the rarer. It is easier and cheaper to make 30 normal spellshards than it is to find one big enough to do their work. And if you get do a dragonshard of that size and quality, there are better uses for it, ones that can't be accomplished with a pile of inferior stones.

That said, in 3.5, there was a magic item that could store 25 standard spellshards worth of information.... for about 2000 times the cost of one.

[Anderlith]

On a side note, would it be reasonable to upscale a spellshard? If a handheld crystal can hold a 320-page book, could a much larger--and less portable--crystal hold the equivalent of an encyclopedia set (an example of which might have 14,000 pages), or would it be better to just have a set of normal spellshards? In a world like Eberron, would it be easier/cheaper to make 30 spellshards, or a single "desktop" unit that contains the volume of text found in 30 such shards (i.e., is there an economy of scale issue)?

At that point I think you would have a large magic item that would store data & display it in an illusory way. Most Eberron magic items (especially dragon marked ones) use dragonshards. I could see the Scribing house have proprietary Arcanum Archives bound to their Marks, as a way to monopolize on them.

[HappyDaze]

Dragonshards are rare, the bigger, the rarer. It is easier and cheaper to make 30 normal spellshards than it is to find one big enough to do their work. And if you get do a dragonshard of that size and quality, there are better uses for it, ones that can't be accomplished with a pile of inferior stones.

That said, in 3.5, there was a magic item that could store 25 standard spellshards worth of information.... for about 2000 times the cost of one.

OK, so no real point in scaling up. Better to just get some kind of organizer to store a bunch of spellshards holding the needed info and top it off with one additional spellshard to act as an index for the whole set.

[ShikomeKidoMi]

If you have the password holder captive, you can also do rubber-hose cryptanalysis in mundane non-magical non-elfgame land.
Reminds me of this comic:
https://www.xkcd.com/538/