How to balance Warlock for a long-rest focused campaign?

[bendking]

As in the title, our campaign is usually one battle per day, since that's how we like to play.
I'd love to hear some suggestions on balancing short-rest based classes, and the Warlock in particular, to this playstyle.
To emphasize, my DM would prefer solutions that aren't simply increasing his slots, to keep the flavor of the Eldritch Blasting Warlock.

Some ideas I've thought of:
1. Giving the Warlock Book of Shadows + Book of Ancient Secrets for free. Thus keeping him not the best at combat, but really helpful outside of it (seeing as that's the best ritual casting feat).
My DM likes this option, though I'm wary it might confuse the Warlock who is a relatively new player.
2. I also thought of increasing the slots of the Warlock to 3 at 5th level, 4 at 11th, and finally 5 at 17th. Simply giving him another slot is a nice option, though somewhat mitigates the whole Eldritch Blast flavor which is actually quite neat about the Warlock. My DM is not a fan of this option as a result.
3. Another option I like is giving the Warlock spell preparation just like the Cleric, that way all of his spells can always be of the highest level, thus making it so he doesn't always spam his top level spells.
This is definitely the least powerful option, I'd say, but it would make the Warlock more versatile, which is always nice (although, the higher level you are the lesser the amount of interesting spells at your max level, oh well).

Would love to hear some feedback on these ideas and hearing new ones. Thanks!

[stoutstien]

Multiply spell slots by 3 and let them recharge on a long rest.

[Trandir]

Well take everything a warlock can do on a short rest and multiply the number of times it can be used by 2 or 2.5 and now it recharges on a long rest.

[bendking]

Multiplying by three seems like a LOT. And like I said, we kind of want to keep the flavor of Eldritch Blast being a main tool of the Warlock. My DM especially. Making such increases quite unlikely, especially times three.

[Theaitetos]

Give him the warlock's level 20 ability Eldritch Master right at the beginning. It's the weakest class capstone ability (right before the sorcerer's). Maybe even extend it to include all the effects of a long rest (except for this ability itself obviously), basically turning it into a 1-minute long rest once per day.

[Tanarii]

Multiplying by three seems like a LOT. And like I said, we kind of want to keep the flavor of Eldritch Blast being a main tool of the Warlock. My DM especially. Making such increases quite unlikely, especially times three.
It's not a lot. It's how many slots a warlock is expected to get under the guidelines. 2 short rests per long rest = 3x the short rest resources.

[Nidgit]

It might sound like a lot, but a Warlock only has two spell slots until level 10. That means they'll have 6 spell slots compared to the full casters' dozens for most of their career.

The whole point of a Warlock's Eldritch Blast is that it mitigates their resource consumption by giving them a reliable fallback. If resources aren't being consumed steadily over the course of the day, a Warlock has little reason to fall back on Eldritch Blast instead of trying to nova like any other class.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Multiply spell slots by 3 and let them recharge on a long rest.

I would also apply this to any other short rest resources gained from the warlock class as well: patron abilities, invocations, etc.

[Trandir]

Multiplying by three seems like a LOT. And like I said, we kind of want to keep the flavor of Eldritch Blast being a main tool of the Warlock. My DM especially. Making such increases quite unlikely, especially times three.

It's not a lot, not when you compare them to other classes.

Also the warlock is supposed to eldritch blast as a backup option when all the spell slots have been used. If you want an eldritch machinegun that doesn't feel out of steam in a 1 battle per day campaing go Sorlock instead.

[bendking]

I appreciate that multiplying the slots by 2 or 3 isn't balance breaking, but it is flavor breaking. It feels as though the Warlock is supposed to fall back on his Eldritch Blast for every fight (given that it's the best damaging cantrip and has multiple invocations supporting it). Besides, that is his trademark spell. Multiplying his slots would mean we'd never see that cantrip again.
Anyway, if it was up to me I probably still would have done it to keep balance between the casters, but my DM is insistent on not going for this route, so I'm looking for other ways of balancing things.

[Bobthewizard]

Give him the warlock's level 20 ability Eldritch Master right at the beginning.

I like this idea. It lets the warlock cast a spell or two out of combat without always worrying about keeping them for combat. They'd still be limited to 2 spells per combat but could likely help out in other ways. Or they'd be able to use 2 spells in 2 consecutive combats which would be nice.

[P. G. Macer]

I appreciate that multiplying the slots by 2 or 3 isn't balance breaking, but it is flavor breaking. It feels as though the Warlock is supposed to fall back on his Eldritch Blast for every fight (given that it's the best damaging cantrip and has multiple invocations supporting it). Besides, that is his trademark spell. Multiplying his slots would mean we'd never see that cantrip again.
Anyway, if it was up to me I probably still would have done it to keep balance between the casters, but my DM is insistent on not going for this route, so I'm looking for other ways of balancing things.

I think there is a bit of dissonance here with the designers’ intent for how the warlock would function and how it actually works out in play much of the time. The DMG states that to properly exhaust the resources of a normal sized party requires 6-8 medium/hard encounters with two short rests. In that circumstance, a warlock would use their slots over a few encounters interspersed with Eldritch Blast, but in a single überdeadly encounter day, the warlock is shortchanged.

The x3 slots, while changing the feel slightly in practice, more faithfully compresses the warlock’s intended play style into a single encounter than the other methods, and the oft-seen hyper-reliance on EB is a symptom of not enough short rests in a day. EB is a major part of the warlock, but thanks to the way adventuring days sometimes/often work in practice, its importance is overrepresented in the minds of many players.

[JellyPooga]

Short answer? Don't.

Seriously. If you're changing the basic dynamic of the adventuring day, some classes are simply not going to function as intended and are probably just best left alone, unused. The Warlock is one of these. I'd suggest that some other classes are also going to feel left out or underpowered in such a game that aren't so easily fixed as "x3 spell slots"...

- Rogues, for example, excel when it comes to a long day due to a lack of expendable resources.
- HD are another resource you're not going to be usingn but are assumed as part of class balance. A Barbarian doesn't just get a heap more max HP from his d12 HD than the Wizard, but he replenishes them more throughout the day too.
- It's not just the Warlock; Monk, Fighter and even the Wizard and Druid are losing out on class features in a long-rest style campaign.

So yeah...with more to consider than just the little I've mentioned, there's a decent argument against even trying to balance this and just roll with the classes that fit your playstyle, rather than trying to shoehorn some extra rules in to make it work.

[Teaguethebean]

A single fight per day is going to make some classes insanely stronger as a paladin can at lv5 in one turn if they hit twice with a great sword even without GWM (4d6 reroll ones so average of 16.6) +2d6(thunderous smite) +6d8(smites) +8(strength) for an average of 58.6 damage in a single turn. Potentially raised to 76.6 if you use GWM this is going to make almost all other martials reconsider playing there character. A good fix is multiply all short rest resources by 3. So the fighter gets 3 action surges, 3 second winds, 12 Superiority dice. And though it may seem ridiculous that they get so much the paladin and casters will blast away with spells far stronger than what the fighter can do every turn without these changes.

[Fable Wright]

Short rest every night, long rest every 7th short rest.

Problem solved.

[Expected]

Short answer? Don't.

Seriously. If you're changing the basic dynamic of the adventuring day, some classes are simply not going to function as intended and are probably just best left alone, unused. The Warlock is one of these. I'd suggest that some other classes are also going to feel left out or underpowered in such a game that aren't so easily fixed as "x3 spell slots"...

- Rogues, for example, excel when it comes to a long day due to a lack of expendable resources.
- HD are another resource you're not going to be usingn but are assumed as part of class balance. A Barbarian doesn't just get a heap more max HP from his d12 HD than the Wizard, but he replenishes them more throughout the day too.
- It's not just the Warlock; Monk, Fighter and even the Wizard and Druid are losing out on class features in a long-rest style campaign.

So yeah...with more to consider than just the little I've mentioned, there's a decent argument against even trying to balance this and just roll with the classes that fit your playstyle, rather than trying to shoehorn some extra rules in to make it work.
I agree--it is better not to. Modifications would have to be done very carefully and with consideration of SR classes so as to not change the balance between SR and LR classes. Otherwise, it'd be unwise to choose a Monk, Fighter, Warlock, or Rogue and better to choose a Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, etc.

[bendking]

Short answer? Don't.

Seriously. If you're changing the basic dynamic of the adventuring day, some classes are simply not going to function as intended and are probably just best left alone, unused. The Warlock is one of these. I'd suggest that some other classes are also going to feel left out or underpowered in such a game that aren't so easily fixed as "x3 spell slots"...

- Rogues, for example, excel when it comes to a long day due to a lack of expendable resources.
- HD are another resource you're not going to be usingn but are assumed as part of class balance. A Barbarian doesn't just get a heap more max HP from his d12 HD than the Wizard, but he replenishes them more throughout the day too.
- It's not just the Warlock; Monk, Fighter and even the Wizard and Druid are losing out on class features in a long-rest style campaign.

So yeah...with more to consider than just the little I've mentioned, there's a decent argument against even trying to balance this and just roll with the classes that fit your playstyle, rather than trying to shoehorn some extra rules in to make it work.


I agree--it is better not to. Modifications would have to be done very carefully and with consideration of SR classes so as to not change the balance between SR and LR classes. Otherwise, it'd be unwise to choose a Monk, Fighter, Warlock, or Rogue and better to choose a Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, etc.

I think it's better to try to balance them at least a little than not at all. I think we agree in this campaign long-rest classes are MUCH more powerful than short-rest classes, so I think it would be wise to at least buff short-rest classes a little while still being sure that it wouldn't upset the balance. For example, adding one slot to the Warlock, or adding 3 ki to the Monk, adding one Action Surge to the fighter, etc. All of these would surely not making them long-rest level of powerful, but still a welcome buff for this campaign.

[stoutstien]

I think it's better to try to balance them at least a little than not at all. I think we agree in this campaign long-rest classes are MUCH more powerful than short-rest classes, so I think it would be wise to at least buff short-rest classes a little while still being sure that it wouldn't upset the balance. For example, adding one slot to the Warlock, or adding 3 ki to the Monk, adding one Action Surge to the fighter, etc. All of these would surely not making them long-rest level of powerful, but still a welcome buff for this campaign.

The players would probably just want a better balanced game vs trying to twist the mechanics to fit the one encounters a day recovery scheme. Some classes can just dump more resources into limited actions better than others. Changing the total resource pulls will make the total potential pools equal across the classes but in real play even with the 1-3 slots a warlock gets means they will rarely cast EB as is.


As much hate as 4e got it actually works really well for tables wanting few encounters a recover cycle.

[JellyPooga]

I think it's better to try to balance them at least a little than not at all. I think we agree in this campaign long-rest classes are MUCH more powerful than short-rest classes, so I think it would be wise to at least buff short-rest classes a little while still being sure that it wouldn't upset the balance. For example, adding one slot to the Warlock, or adding 3 ki to the Monk, adding one Action Surge to the fighter, etc. All of these would surely not making them long-rest level of powerful, but still a welcome buff for this campaign.

I disagree. "Tweaking" is a delicate business that often comes with unexpected side-effects. It's rarely as "simple" as it seems.

Adding an Action Surge to the Fighter, for example, without limiting it to once per short rest or a similar restriction, is a much more significant boon than it might appear; more akin to a much higher level feature than is appropriate for lvl.2.

As has been discussed, adding a multplier to Pact Magic slots to the Warlock will dramatically change their play style from one that is relatively conservative and focused on Eldritch Blast, to one that can cast more, higher level spells in the course of a single fight than anyone else is capable of. A Warlock with 6 or even 4 lvl.5 spell slots at lvl.9 is far more powerful in your one-fight-a-day than the Wizard who only gets to cast one or two.

This is tip-of-the-iceberg stuff. Little changes have big consequences.

[AHF]

How about instead of adding slots for the missed short rests, let the Warlock have an ability usable a number of times equal to those missing slots where they can double cast EB that action. They will be mostly EBing but will have a spell (rough) equivalent resource that closes the gap and keeps with the flavor.

[Expected]

I disagree. "Tweaking" is a delicate business that often comes with unexpected side-effects. It's rarely as "simple" as it seems.

Adding an Action Surge to the Fighter, for example, without limiting it to once per short rest or a similar restriction, is a much more significant boon than it might appear; more akin to a much higher level feature than is appropriate for lvl.2.

As has been discussed, adding a multplier to Pact Magic slots to the Warlock will dramatically change their play style from one that is relatively conservative and focused on Eldritch Blast, to one that can cast more, higher level spells in the course of a single fight than anyone else is capable of. A Warlock with 6 or even 4 lvl.5 spell slots at lvl.9 is far more powerful in your one-fight-a-day than the Wizard who only gets to cast one or two.

This is tip-of-the-iceberg stuff. Little changes have big consequences.

I cannot agree more nor could I have said it better myself. There are too many attempts to "fix" perceived problems but they, at least in the case of the recent threads on here, do not take into account the effects their "fix" has on other aspects of the game. A common counter-argument is that these "fixes" make it more fun. I'd like to point out that it may make it more fun for that person, but what about the other person playing a class that was unintentionally nerfed by your ill-thought out change? Doesn't their fun matter, too?

[Millstone85]

As in the title, our campaign is usually one battle per day, since that's how we like to play.Out of curiosity, is that because you consider each session to last a full day? If so, why?


Give him the warlock's level 20 ability Eldritch Master right at the beginning.This, and make it usable twice per long rest.

[Expected]

Out of curiosity, is that because you consider each session to last a full day? If so, why?

I'm not the person you asked, but in my experience, tables that can only play 2-3 hours usually are the ones that play like this. Maybe it's to avoid having to remember if they took a long rest or not?

[da newt]

So one combat per day? If a really epic boss combat lasts 10 rounds of fighting that's 1 minute out of 24 hrs accounted for.

You all must really enjoy / emphasize the RP, character development, backstory exploration, food, shopping, travel, resource management, strategic planning, prepping the battlefield, etc to fill out the rest of your day.

The simple and right (IMO) way to 'fix' this is to allow a long rest only after 3 days, and have short rests the other 2 nights. Adopting this simple rule will re-balance your classes, and allow you to continue to play one battle per day, keeping everyone happy.

[returnToThePast]

If you want the Warlock to be an eldritch blast cannon with an occasional powerful spell, then my first thought is a recharge mechanic based on eldritch blast. That way, they can open with a spell, shoot a couple blasts, use another spell, and so on.

Something like:
Once per turn, when you hit a [non-trivially threatening*] hostile creature with eldritch blast, you gain an eldritch charge. You can store up to a number of eldritch charges equal to your Charisma modifier, and any accumulated charges are lost when you finish a long rest. You may expend two eldritch charges to regain a warlock spell slot, no action required.
* Include this if necessary to deter bag-o-rats style shenanigans. Hopefully it's not necessary.

[LibraryOgre]

As in the title, our campaign is usually one battle per day, since that's how we like to play.
I'd love to hear some suggestions on balancing short-rest based classes, and the Warlock in particular, to this playstyle.
To emphasize, my DM would prefer solutions that aren't simply increasing his slots, to keep the flavor of the Eldritch Blasting Warlock.


How about some free invocations?

Agonizing Blast, Eldritch Spear, Repelling Blast... they apply this to all Eldritch Blasts.

Eldritch Blast, in this case, is a "Free" cantrip.

It's a KISS solution, keeping the Warlock simple ("You can shoot blasts 250' away, they add your charisma bonus to damage, and push people 10 feet"), but also making them a bit more potent when they've spent their spell slots.

[Daphne]

I don't think a Warlock will be much weaker in a single fight per day environment. A Fiendlock throwing Fireballs in the first two rounds of combat isn't underpowered imo.

[bid]

As in the title, our campaign is usually one battle per day, since that's how we like to play.
Allow all classes to regain short-rest resources out of combat, twice per day.

The real mistake is spending all spell slots in a single combat, it makes other casters too strong.
Go gritty with a short rest per night and a long rest per week. Or limit all casters to X spell points per combat.

[Luccan]

It's not a lot, not when you compare them to other classes.

Also the warlock is supposed to eldritch blast as a backup option when all the spell slots have been used. If you want an eldritch machinegun that doesn't feel out of steam in a 1 battle per day campaing go Sorlock instead.

Eh, it's a bit more at level 1 and actually significant at level 2 (you're getting 6 spells when everyone else has 3), but after that it pretty much doesn't matter.

[Debaterinarms]

Some people are suggesting going with gritty rest rules, but I would suggest the opposite and try the heroic rest mechanics.

Allow short rests to be a few minutes.

This means that the warlock can always spend their slots on social encounters while still expecting to have them in combat, but will still be limited by their total number of slots if you have one big battle. The warlock still won't completely thrive in this environment, but they will be fine. Furthermore, this solves the problem of any classes having short rest resources, like the druid using wild shape to sneak around before the big fight of the day or what have you.

[Chaosticket]

Ah someone mentioned KISS doctrine.

Okay simplest suggestion is the following. DONT ALLOW WARLOCKS.

There just isnt a way you can work it without Short Rests. Any of the ideas coming out are not even having the Warlock as a class anymore. You are just turning it into a Sorcerer.

If youre only doing a Once-Per-Session Fight then if anything that hurts full spellcasters more because if they have 10/20/30 spell slots and then only cast a handful of spells then that wastes the characters.

[ad_hoc]

I think it's better to try to balance them at least a little than not at all. I think we agree in this campaign long-rest classes are MUCH more powerful than short-rest classes, so I think it would be wise to at least buff short-rest classes a little while still being sure that it wouldn't upset the balance. For example, adding one slot to the Warlock, or adding 3 ki to the Monk, adding one Action Surge to the fighter, etc. All of these would surely not making them long-rest level of powerful, but still a welcome buff for this campaign.

Trying to make 1 encounter/long rest work requires a major overhaul of the game.

It's not simply a matter of adding a feature to the Warlock.

Why play like that? I don't see the point.

[Luccan]

Some people are suggesting going with gritty rest rules, but I would suggest the opposite and try the heroic rest mechanics.

Allow short rests to be a few minutes.

This means that the warlock can always spend their slots on social encounters while still expecting to have them in combat, but will still be limited by their total number of slots if you have one big battle. The warlock still won't completely thrive in this environment, but they will be fine. Furthermore, this solves the problem of any classes having short rest resources, like the druid using wild shape to sneak around before the big fight of the day or what have you.

Probably the better solution if you don't want to have to adjust everything and want to let long rest classes stay mostly as they are. I notice a lot of reluctance to short rest, which seems especially common if other forms of healing are available. Dropping it to 5 minutes keeps the practical restrictions, as you say, without the massive consequences of having classes that are so sharply divided by the long-rest/short-rest mechanics.

The problem of short rests is there's really only one place they feel appropriate: a dungeon. A real one, not a "race the BBEG" or "break into the keep in the middle of the night, you have until sunrise" event type of mission, a methodical crawl through a large but limited environment where you can't risk a night's rest but an hour is acceptable risk-reward. Trouble is, most people don't do dungeon crawls anymore.

[ad_hoc]

Trouble is, most people don't do dungeon crawls anymore.

I don't think that is true.

I think the vast majority of players play in dungeons (or similar). The published adventures are built with them.

The game itself is designed for dungeon crawling. It's in the name.

If you want to play Dungeons and Dragons without the dungeons then of course it's not going to work right.

Seems silly to me.

[Fable Wright]

If you want to play Dungeons and Dragons without the dungeons then of course it's not going to work right.

I'm running Red Hand of Doom (one of the most beloved 3.5e modules) crossed with Storm King's Thunder (a well-reviewed 5e module) in Eberron (D&D's own 100% completely unique setting) and I genuinely can't really add a dungeon crawl into the adventure. At all. Using 100% well-reviewed D&D material.

Just saying.

[Theodoxus]

Good suggestions throughout the thread, but one I didn't see, that I employed to good effect, was giving Warlocks spell points. You're still more likely going to nova anyway, but it does allow the player a lot more choice in their play style. Instead of blowing a 2nd or 3rd level slot on Hex, they can blow 2 spell points instead and still have enough left over to use a few more 1st and 2nd level spells. No need to multiply them or anything - just # slots x the current level cost. So, 1st level, they have 2 points (1 1st level spell); 2nd level, they have 2 1st level slots, so 4 points (same as their standard counterpart) at 3rd level, they have two 2nd level slots, or 2x3; and here it gets interesting. They can cast two 2nd level spells, or three 1st level spells (or 1 of each level). It boosts their options without stripping away the reliance on EB for combat.

[stoutstien]

I'm running Red Hand of Doom (one of the most beloved 3.5e modules) crossed with Storm King's Thunder (a well-reviewed 5e module) in Eberron (D&D's own 100% completely unique setting) and I genuinely can't really add a dungeon crawl into the adventure. At all. Using 100% well-reviewed D&D material.

Just saying.

Dungeon is usually symbolic of any string of encounters that have a similar theme, has obstacles, usually clear resolution and goals, and has some element of a critical path.
Once you tie two encounters together you are going to start a dungeon because resource management and other factors are now part of the decision making process. Hence dungeons

[Garfunion]

I don’t know if this has been mentioned but, what if you gave the Warlock the same spell slot progression as an Artificer? How much of the class would break?

[Azuresun]

Some people are suggesting going with gritty rest rules, but I would suggest the opposite and try the heroic rest mechanics.

Allow short rests to be a few minutes.


This is what I'd do as well. The problem with the default is that (outside of full-on dungeons with no time pressure) there are very few situations where you can safely take a short rest that you couldn't also safely take a long rest.

[ad_hoc]

This is what I'd do as well. The problem with the default is that (outside of full-on dungeons with no time pressure) there are very few situations where you can safely take a short rest that you couldn't also safely take a long rest.

I don't find that to be the case, I find the opposite occurs quite often. The party can take a risk by resting for an hour, but if they were to try to go a full 8 hours then they would surely fail their objective (and be attacked while trying to rest for that matter).

Just last session the party was sneaking around a building complex and had to make a hard choice. Do they rest up and increase the risk of being found out (perhaps challenging their disguises, discovering others are missing, etc.) or do they push on hoping to get in and out without trouble.

Short rests are long enough to allow for interesting choices. If they were 5 minutes there would be no choice there, it would just happen.

But then, I only play published adventures which feature dungeons (or their equivalents). I think a lot of people would benefit from playing 1 or 2 of them to learn the system better.

[Arcturus]

Have some or all SR powers/warlock spell slots refresh the first time an enemy reduces you to 1/2 HP during an encounter. This works especially well for fighters or blade locks and gives them a flavorful comeback mechanic that only comes into play in tough fights.

Alternately, give your warlock a Rod of the Pact Keeper (https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/rod-of-the-pact-keeper) (an item that is already basically a mandatory patch for the class’ wonky resource pacing), but make its spell slot recovery ability have 3 charges per day.

[Hail Tempus]

I'm running Red Hand of Doom (one of the most beloved 3.5e modules) crossed with Storm King's Thunder (a well-reviewed 5e module) in Eberron (D&D's own 100% completely unique setting) and I genuinely can't really add a dungeon crawl into the adventure. At all. Using 100% well-reviewed D&D material.

Just saying.
Huh? There are at least 5 distinct dungeons in SKT. Each of the giant lords live in a dungeon equivalent, and the party needs to defeat at least one of them.

[CNagy]

Someone already mentioned additional invocations, but rather than focusing them on the Eldritch Blast invocations take all of the invocations that give you the ability to cast a spell (or just all of the 1/rest invocations) and give the Warlock a number of free invocations he can choose from that list.

[AHF]

Someone already mentioned additional invocations, but rather than focusing them on the Eldritch Blast invocations take all of the invocations that give you the ability to cast a spell (or just all of the 1/rest invocations) and give the Warlock a number of free invocations he can choose from that list.

For the OP, the problem with this is likely to be that he doesn't want extra spell slots to be the answer and instead wants the focus to be on Eldritch Blast.

For me, the simplest answer is giving the Warlock a homebrewed, limited use "enhanced" Eldritch Blast ability. The Warlock gets the normal spell slots and then has 2x those slots to do a double EB (extra attack rolls which would then stack with Hex or just double the damage of the EB itself if you don't want the Hex interaction) or something like that. Then the Warlock fulfills the flavor that the OP is looking for while having a set of resources more akin to what the Warlock would have with normal short rests in the mix.