Increasing INT in AD&D 1e

[Jay R]

Is there a magic item other than an Ioun stone, a Tome of Understanding, or a Gem of Insight that can increase INT in 1e?

There are Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, Gloves of Dexterity, and a Pearl of Wisdom. But I can't find a reference to a Headband of Intellect, or something like that.

[LibraryOgre]

Ring of Wishes?

AD&D made stat gains a lot harder to get; whereas WD&D made them relatively common, even expected, and could do that because their attributes increased fairly linearly, AD&D took the position that anything above 18 was superhuman, and often scaled a lot more quickly than below 18.

[Khedrac]

And I came here to say a "scroll of wish".

To add to Mark's point about above 18 stats being super-human/deity level, an Int of 19 automatically makes one immune to 1st level illusions.
Most of the rules for 19+ stats are in Deities and Demigods.

Note, iirc that once a stat his 18 a wish only adds 10% to it - so 10 wishes to go from 18 to 19 and from 19 to 20.

The complex case being strength where 18 00 strength is a thing which is where the 10th wish should logically place you.

[hamlet]

There is also, simply, age. The longer you stay alive, the more your INT goes up as you get older.

[Willie the Duck]

Note, iirc that once a stat his 18 a wish only adds 10% to it - so 10 wishes to go from 18 to 19 and from 19 to 20.

16 actually. Makes you wonder just how prevalent wishes were in the lead up to AD&D.

[hamlet]

16 actually. Makes you wonder just how prevalent wishes were in the lead up to AD&D.

Not terribly common. The setup was engineered to prevent players from giving themselves all 18's or whatever in their stats and turning themselves into de facto gods. Didn't always work out that way, but hey, good intentions and all.

[Willie the Duck]

Not terribly common. The setup was engineered to prevent players from giving themselves all 18's or whatever in their stats and turning themselves into de facto gods. Didn't always work out that way, but hey, good intentions and all.

I meant at Gary's table. I know plenty of people with firsthand knowledge of 1977 and earlier play, and the answer there is that it varied a lot (of course Arduin Grimoire and all that indicate that there was quite a lot of differences in opinions about what power level was normative as well). However, there used to be a copy of Rob Kuntz's Robilar character sheet floating around the internet, which if it was made with actual 3d6 down the line, was either unbelievably lucky rolling or indicative of a whole lot of wishes being available. Regardless, if you bother to make stats over a certain point cost 10 wishes (or worse yet, go from 10 wishes at one point to 20 at another!), it indicates some real fear regarding over-proliferation of wishes.

[Lord Torath]

Is there a magic item other than an Ioun stone, a Tome of Understanding, or a Gem of Insight that can increase INT in 1e?

There are Gauntlets of Ogre Strength, Gloves of Dexterity, and a Pearl of Wisdom. But I can't find a reference to a Headband of Intellect, or something like that.I'd say this is an indication of a new magic item for your wizard to research! :smallwink:

[hamlet]

I meant at Gary's table. I know plenty of people with firsthand knowledge of 1977 and earlier play, and the answer there is that it varied a lot (of course Arduin Grimoire and all that indicate that there was quite a lot of differences in opinions about what power level was normative as well). However, there used to be a copy of Rob Kuntz's Robilar character sheet floating around the internet, which if it was made with actual 3d6 down the line, was either unbelievably lucky rolling or indicative of a whole lot of wishes being available. Regardless, if you bother to make stats over a certain point cost 10 wishes (or worse yet, go from 10 wishes at one point to 20 at another!), it indicates some real fear regarding over-proliferation of wishes.

Yeah, Gary's game was notoriously odd. Lots of high power folks and super magic items and craziness. But, hey, you play the game how you want. Nothing saying the DM can't create items to boost the INT stat or whatever.

[Mutazoia]

There is a spell in one of the Forgotten Realms splats (Lords of Darkness) that dealt with the undead. The spell is called "Awaken Intelligence" and is used to give undead an int. score of 3D6. But it can also add 2d6 points of int. to a non-undead (PC) target.

Awaken Intelligence: Level: 4;
Range: touch; Duration: permanent;
Area of effect: 1 creature; Components:
V,S,M; Casting time: 4 segments; Saving
throw: none.
Gives sentience to a non-sentient
creature (roll 3d6 to select Intelligence
score), or in already sentient creatures,
improves Intelligence by 2d6 points.
Requires a system shock roll to survive
its effects. Awakened Intelligence may
not be passed on to offspring unless
“locked” into the creature’s genetic
makeup by the alter beast spell. The
material components are a dried fish
and a piece of brain coral.

[Lord Torath]

Wow. That's a pretty potent spell. Combine that with the 4th level priest spell Probability Control, and everyone gets a minimum +20% bonus on their system shock roll (except the person the priest really dislikes, who secretly gets a -20%). Sure, it requires a trip to a coral reef (or at least within several miles of one and the 1st level Conjure Spell Component spell), but when was the last time your PCs complained about going to the tropics?

I would suspect that anything without a Constitution score (animals, mindless undead, etc) just makes a Death save instead of a System Shock roll.

[Khedrac]

Wow. That's a pretty potent spell. Combine that with the 4th level priest spell Probability Control, and everyone gets a minimum +20% bonus on their system shock roll (except the person the priest really dislikes, who secretly gets a -20%). Sure, it requires a trip to a coral reef (or at least within several miles of one and the 1st level Conjure Spell Component spell), but when was the last time your PCs complained about going to the tropics?
Personally I would say that for 1st Ed AD&D that is an overpowered spell - badly so.


I would suspect that anything without a Constitution score (animals, mindless undead, etc) just makes a Death save instead of a System Shock roll.
Anything without a Con score? - Are you thinking 3rd Ed? - Looking at the Monster Manual that is every single creature in the book...

[Lord Torath]

I'm still thinking 1E/2E AD&D. The spell says you pass a System Shock to survive. Anything other than a PC or NPC lacks a constitution score (and some NPCs won't have them) and thus a system shock success chance. Hence (a cousin of "thus") you need a different mechanism to determine whether the target lives or dies. I mean, I suppose you could assume most monsters have an average constitution (10-11) which would give a System Shock survival chance of 70-75%.

Is this what you do for Polymorph spells cast on non-demihuman targets?

[knag]

Obviously you can make any magic item your heart desires for your campaign, but if you're looking for TSR-published sources with Int-raising magic items, I do recall a room in WG4 The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun wherein there are trees, and eating the fruit of said trees raises the prime requisite stat for the class the tree is attuned with. But if the character is the wrong class, it drops the score I think.

There are probably other magical effects like this littered through the published modules. I liked this one because it's potentially as good as 10 wishes, but carries a risk too if the party doesn't figure out the nature of the trees a just eats them randomly.

[Telok]

I am reminded: in the 1e dmg there is a random fungeon generator... I'm gonna just leave that mispelling in there... that had the possibility of magic pools or fountains that affected attributes.

[Jay R]

Thanks for all the replies. I’m learning a lot.

I’m specifically trying to figure out what I need to do to increase my PC’s INT.

A. Wishes won’t work unless I find ten of them. My wizard has INT 18.

B. He’s fifth level. It will be a long time before he can research a new item.

C. The DM said that we would have to find any spell not in the PHB. And I’m quite sure he wouldn’t bring the “Awaken Intelligence” spell into any treasure, just because it is so ridiculously over-powered.

Guess I’m looking for a Gem of insight, Tome of Clear Thought, or the right Ioun stone.

Thanks for going through all the options for me.

[LibraryOgre]

There's also the 8th level Wizard spell Enhance, which will increase one attribute by 1 point, permanently... at the cost of 1d4 points of Constitution from the caster, and a chance of failure.

Awaken Intelligence is also a 4th level spell in Ravenloft, but it only works on Animal Intelligence animals, with a possibility of working on semi-intelligent creatures... not what you need.

If you REALLY want to dive into it, there's the Wizard's Spell Compendiums... volumes One (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17468/Wizards-Spell-Compendium-Vol-1-2e?affiliate_id=315505) and Two (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17469/Wizards-Spell-Compendium-Vol-2-2e?affiliate_id=315505) are on DriveThru, and you can get a bundle of the Encyclopedia Magica (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/120126/Encyclopedia-Magica-Series-2e-BUNDLE?affiliate_id=315505)from there, as well.

[Khedrac]

Something to think about though - with an 18 Int you have very little need to increase it in a 1st Ed campaign (you will have a higher Int than 80% of the magic users you meet) unless the DM is running it as a very high-power campaign in which case they will provide you with the opportunity.

What you need to watch out for are the spell learning rules - and be careful which spells you try to learn - if you don't think you will want the spell, don't try to learn it.

Probably more important is to get your Con to 16 - you don't have that many hit points so you want the maximum you can.

[Jay R]

If you REALLY want to dive into it, there's the Wizard's Spell Compendiums... volumes One (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17468/Wizards-Spell-Compendium-Vol-1-2e?affiliate_id=315505) and Two (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/17469/Wizards-Spell-Compendium-Vol-2-2e?affiliate_id=315505) are on DriveThru, and you can get a bundle of the Encyclopedia Magica (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/120126/Encyclopedia-Magica-Series-2e-BUNDLE?affiliate_id=315505)from there, as well.

Excellent resources. Unfortunately, neither of them exist for 1e.


Something to think about though - with an 18 Int you have very little need to increase it in a 1st Ed campaign (you will have a higher Int than 80% of the magic users you meet) unless the DM is running it as a very high-power campaign in which case they will provide you with the opportunity.

True, but my reasons for wanting it have nothing to do with competing with other wizards.


What you need to watch out for are the spell learning rules - and be careful which spells you try to learn - if you don't think you will want the spell, don't try to learn it.

Exactly. The specific reasons I want to increase it from 18 to 19 are to increase the probability of learning spells from 85% to 95%, and (more importantly), get rid of the limit on spells known, so I don't have to sacrifice a potential spell now to keep open the possibility of learning one later.


Probably more important is to get your Con to 16 - you don't have that many hit points so you want the maximum you can.

Excellent advice. I'm not a complete newbie; his CON already is 16.

[Mutazoia]

Wow. That's a pretty potent spell. Combine that with the 4th level priest spell Probability Control, and everyone gets a minimum +20% bonus on their system shock roll (except the person the priest really dislikes, who secretly gets a -20%). Sure, it requires a trip to a coral reef (or at least within several miles of one and the 1st level Conjure Spell Component spell), but when was the last time your PCs complained about going to the tropics?

I would suspect that anything without a Constitution score (animals, mindless undead, etc) just make a Death save instead of a System Shock roll.

A system shock roll is only required by already sentient targets. Anything else (animals, mindless undead, etc) don't have to make the roll.

[LibraryOgre]

Excellent resources. Unfortunately, neither of them exist for 1e.


Both, however, include things from 1e, and, most often, cite their sources.

[hamlet]

Both, however, include things from 1e, and, most often, cite their sources.

Not to mention that both 1e and 2e are virtually interchangeable with little or no work.

[LibraryOgre]

Not to mention that both 1e and 2e are virtually interchangeable with little or no work.

Yeah, but all of us know that the distinction really matter to some of us hairy old bastards. :smallwink:

[Jay R]

Yeah, but all of us know that the distinction really matter to some of us hairy old bastards. :smallwink:

Most relevant in this case, the distinction matters to my DM.

[Who is, yes, both hairy and old.]

[GrayDeath]

[Who is, yes, both hairy and old.]

As long as hes not old and bald, you can still appeal to some remaining good will.
Once however he has gone beyond the realms of No hair, I doubt even a max Level bard could make him become more positive towards accepting "other things" ^^

[hamlet]

As long as hes not old and bald . . .


I resemble that remark!

Yes, the distinctions matter to the crusty old grumblers and not too many others. Personally, I use 1e and 2e completely interchangeably

[LibraryOgre]

I resemble that remark!

Yes, the distinctions matter to the crusty old grumblers and not too many others. Personally, I use 1e and 2e completely interchangeably

I find 1e (& earlier) adventures to be fantastic, and work great with mostly 2e characters.

[Jay R]

Problem solved, and much sooner than I thought possible. The DM set up a location in which we had a low probability chance to find specific magic items for sale, at the price listed in the books. I made the roll for a gem of insight, and paid the 3,000 gp for a +1 INT and +1 WIS.

Once during the game, and then again after the game, I told him that I thought that item was grossly under-priced, and said that if he decided I couldn't have it, I would understand. Simple honesty required that. [I do not, however, feel the need to remind him a third time. If he forgets to ever check, then I will assume that the DM gave me what the DM gave me.]

Which leads me to the next question: what other items are under-priced in 1e that I should look for? I'm primarily interested in items useful for a 5th level wizard, with a soft limit of 10,000 gp. But the party includes a fighter and a cleric, so other ideas could help too. [I will set up a new thread for that one.]

[Lord Torath]

I was going to say Dagger of Throwing+4 and Quarterstaff+5, but that's because one of my 2E DMs allowed me to spend 5,000 xp on magic items, with no individual item costing more than 1500 xp. Dagger of Throwing+4 is worth 550 xp, and the Quarterstaff+5 is worth 1250 xp (+5 sword is 3,000 xp, +3[max] other weapon is 2,000 xp). But you're spending gold, not XP, so this is less useful. Also, I don't know if either of them appear in the 1E DMG.

What sources can you use?

[LibraryOgre]

Huh. My DMG lists the Gem of Brightness as 17,500.

That said, a Pearl of Power is often a good investment. At 2000gp/spell level, you can get a few bonus castings of useful spell levels... get a 2nd level one and you can throw two Melfs per day, while only memorizing one (which is my usual use for a Pearl of Power... greater versatility in memorization, since I can memorize one offensive spell and, effectively, have it memorized twice).

[Lord Torath]

Huh. My DMG lists the Gem of Brightness as 17,500.Gem of Insight, not Gem of Brightness. :smallwink:

[LibraryOgre]

Gem of Insight, not Gem of Brightness. :smallwink:

I guess you didn't have will'o'the'wisp or boggart essence handy to uncover the REAL text of my Secret Page, where I wrote it correctly.

Rookie move, Torath. :smallbiggrin:

EDIT:
Incidentally, I looked up the Gem of Insight, and it gets even better. The Gem itself is worth 5000gp. THE ITEM ACTUALLY BECOMES LESS VALUABLE IF MADE A GEM OF INSIGHT.

Beautiful. Just beautiful.

[Lord Torath]

I guess you didn't have will'o'the'wisp or boggart essence handy to uncover the REAL text of my Secret Page, where I wrote it correctly.

Rookie move, Torath. :smallbiggrin:Gah! Serves me right! <grumble gramble> Next time, Mark! Next time!

Jay R, is there a particular reason Ioun stones are not an option for increasing your intelligence?

[Jay R]

Huh. My DMG lists the Gem of Brightness as 17,500.

That said, a Pearl of Power is often a good investment. At 2000gp/spell level, you can get a few bonus castings of useful spell levels... get a 2nd level one and you can throw two Melfs per day, while only memorizing one (which is my usual use for a Pearl of Power... greater versatility in memorization, since I can memorize one offensive spell and, effectively, have it memorized twice).

Yup. He has a 3rd level one. [They didn't have a 2nd level.]


What sources can you use?

Any TSR 1e source. All I own to look up items in are the DMG and Unearthed Arcana, but I think any source is usable.


Jay R, is there a particular reason Ioun stones are not an option for increasing your intelligence?

Yes -- because my PC can't find any. He was told, "Not here. You might try the elves."


Incidentally, I looked up the Gem of Insight, and it gets even better. The Gem itself is worth 5000gp. THE ITEM ACTUALLY BECOMES LESS VALUABLE IF MADE A GEM OF INSIGHT.

Beautiful. Just beautiful.

Yup. I also just noticed that xp value is 3,000, and gp value is also 3,000. Since gp value is usually 10 times the xp value, that pretty much proves that it's a typo. 30,000 gp would still be low, compared to the Tomes that do the same thing, but it would be more likely.

Unfortunately, this means I have to go ahead and tell the DM that it shouldn't be possible. Sigh.

[Willie the Duck]

Which leads me to the next question: what other items are under-priced in 1e that I should look for? I'm primarily interested in items useful for a 5th level wizard, with a soft limit of 10,000 gp. But the party includes a fighter and a cleric, so other ideas could help too. [I will set up a new thread for that one.]

Question: Are you using training costs for level-up? With mostly gp=xp, spending much money on anything else before name level means delaying levelling, so I would be much more restrictive in what items I would suggest.

[Jay R]

Question: Are you using training costs for level-up? With mostly gp=xp, spending much money on anything else before name level means delaying levelling, so I would be much more restrictive in what items I would suggest.

Good question. No we aren't using training costs. Also, gold doesn't provide experience points. That makes it slow going. With the xps from our 15th session, I leveled up to 5th level, so we're averaging not quite four sessions per level.

[knag]

Which leads me to the next question: what other items are under-priced in 1e that I should look for? I'm primarily interested in items useful for a 5th level wizard, with a soft limit of 10,000 gp. But the party includes a fighter and a cleric, so other ideas could help too. [I will set up a new thread for that one.]

Just quickly giving glance at the DMG, these ones popped out at me:

Girdle of Giant Strength - 2,500 gp massively underpriced, for the party fighter. By the book, no price change for Storm Giant strength vs Hill Giant Strength
Cloak of Elvenkind - 6000 gp (90% undetectable)
Necklace of Missiles - 200 gp per hit die of fireballs
Basic Crystal Ball - 5000 gp

[Lord Torath]

Cloak of Elvenkind - 6000 gp (90% undetectable)Ring of Invis is only 7,500 gp, and lighting and background conditions don't affect your visibility. Plus, 10% of them offer inaudibility as well (at no added cost, apparently). Boots of Elvenkind are another 5,000 gp.

Good call on the Girdle of Giant Strength, though.

[Jay R]

Some really good ideas here. Thanks. Keep 'em coming.

[Lord Torath]

Bag of Devouring: 1500 gp. Don't get it confused with your Bag of Holding!
Deck of Many Things: 10,000 gp Offer to let your enemies draw from it if they'll leave you alone/let you pass. Or just offer to let them draw once before combat. If they get something good, you can probably take it from them (Stat increases, followers, and castles are among the exceptions). If they get something bad, it's no skin off your nose.


After your fighter has purchased his Girdle of Storm Giant Strength, you may as well get some worthy weapons to go along with it. You, uh, will need to get the wizard to cast Enlarge on the Fighter before he can use them, because you need to be giant sized. How tall are hill giants? Nine-and-a-half feet? As long as your mage is level 6, you're set
Mattock of the Titans: 7,000 gp
Maul of the Titans: 12,000 gp

Mirror of Opposition: 2,000 gp. If you can't find a use for this, you need to turn in your RPG license!
Necklace of Strangulation: 1,000 gp. Same as above.
Helm of Opposite Alignment: 1,000 gp

Is there a halfling (or gnome) in your party? Dagger+2, Longtooth, 2,500 gp (S4 Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth). Counts as a dagger, but does damage as a shortsword, and max damage against wood or stone.

Anyone know if there's a version of Prayer Beads, Gloves of Missile Snaring, or a Ring of Truth in 1E AD&D? They are probably worth looking into if they exist.

[knag]

Anyone know if there's a version of Prayer Beads, Gloves of Missile Snaring, or a Ring of Truth in 1E AD&D? They are probably worth looking into if they exist.

Gloves of Missile Snaring are in OA, priced at 10,000 gp
Necklace of Prayer Beads is in the 1e DMG. 3,000 gp per special bead, so you could have three of the possible five special beads for 9,000 gp, which is pretty powerful in terms of adding healing and potential divine intervention into the mix.
Ring of Truth is in OA, priced at 5,000 gp.

[Lord Torath]

Necklace of Prayer Beads is in the 1e DMG. 3,000 gp per special bead, so you could have three of the possible five special beads for 9,000 gp, which is pretty powerful in terms of adding healing and potential divine intervention into the mix.It would probably help if I looked for it under "Necklace" instead of "Prayer Beads" or "Beads, Prayer". :smallredface: Still, a pretty good deal for some really potent abilities. 2E has six special beads: Atonement, Bless, Curing, Karma, Summons, Windwalk.

I would say the Ring of Truth is a very good investment. If they lie, you hear their voice an octave higher than it normally is. If they have magic protecting them from lie detection and they lie, you can't hear what they say at all, so you still know they lied. You just need a friend who heard the lie to let you know what they said. You just have to always tell the truth yourself.

10,000 for the gloves is probably not a great deal, but they really can come in handy, especially for a squishy mage who frequently has a free hand available.

More items:
Rabbit Slayer, Dagger+4, returns within 1d20 hours if lost or stolen (you have to give it willingly before it accepts a new owner). 1500 gp from the 1E Dragonlance Adventures Book (Price from Encyclopedia Magic vol 1).
Dagger of Throwing+4, 2,750 gp (1E DMG according to the Encyclopedia Magica Volume 1): Range: 180', inflicts double dagger damage +4 when thrown. It doesn't say it returns when thrown, but neither does the Hammer of Thunderbolts, which implies it by saying you can only throw it once every other round, because throwing it is so exhausting, not because you need to go fetch it. So you can argue it returns after each throw, and so should other magic items of throwing.

[knag]

Dagger of Throwing+4, 2,750 gp (1E DMG according to the Encyclopedia Magica Volume 1)...

Interesting. It's not in my version of the 1E DMG. I wonder if that's an error in the EM.

[rredmond]

Yup, that's in the 2E DMG.

[rredmond]

Interesting. It's not in my version of the 1E DMG. I wonder if that's an error in the EM. Polyhedron #47 also has a "Throwing Dagger of Returning" specifically magicked to return. Not really "official" but figured I'd share :)

[Lord Torath]

Dagger of Throwing+4, 2,750 gp (1E DMG according to the Encyclopedia Magica Volume 1)
Interesting. It's not in my version of the 1E DMG. I wonder if that's an error in the EM.
Yup, that's in the 2E DMG.The gold cost is not from the 2E DMG, though. They decided to remove the gold value of magic items. Unless they put it back in the revised edition? <runs to check books> Nope, still just XP values, even in the Revised (black cover) printing.

[Jay R]

Interesting. It's not in my version of the 1E DMG. I wonder if that's an error in the EM.

The Dagger of Throwing is not in the DMG. It was introduced in Unearthed Arcana.