Quiddity

[colopop]

What do we know about quiddity so far?


There were originally four colors: red, blue, yellow, and green.
All known entities with green quiddity were devoured by the Snarl. Their exact fate is not technically confirmed, but they are presumed to be annihilated.
Anything made with multiple quiddities is sturdier/more powerful that anything made with fewer quiddities, but the exact colors involved don't seem to matter.
Gods only have one quiddity. The Snarl has four quiddities.
A mortal, The Dark One, has ascended to godhood with a new shade of quiddity, purple.


Now, this may seem like a bit of a tangent, but bear with me. What do we know about Belkar?


His backstory is largely unexplored.
He's currently undergoing a long, comprehensive arc of character growth.
He is "not long for this world".
He will "draw his last breath -- ever -- before the end of the year."
He has described himself on not one but two pivotal occasions as a "sexy shoeless god of war". On the second occasion, this was essentially how he defined himself.
He wears the color green.


I apologize if this is an old theory; it's been bouncing around in my head in some form since the Azure City arc, so I'm sure someone else has come up with it, but I looked through active threads for it and didn't find anything. But here goes.


Belkar is going to ascend to godhood, unsponsored by any existing pantheon, by the end of the year -- meaning he'll no longer be on the mortal plane or need to breathe. He is going to have green quiddity, like the old Eastern Pantheon. This is because the Eastern Pantheon wasn't annihilated by the Snarl as we've assumed, but shattered. Belkar is a remnant of Ares, or a descendant of one. The Dark One will not cooperate in the fight against the Snarl, but Belkar will. Alternatively, Belkar and the Dark One will both cooperate to make a five-quiddity world sealed against the Snarl (this would also satisfy the not-long-for-this-world prophecy).


Of course there are problems with this. The biggest one I can think of is that Belkar wouldn't have any obvious group of worshippers, and I'm not sure how he'd acquire them in under a year. The second-biggest is that I'm not sure how remnants of the green gods would survive billions of world resets. Both of these issues are definitely resolvable by the plot, I just don't think there's enough evidence in the comic right now to favor one resolution over another.

I admit that, while I've read through the main comic a few times, I haven't read any side comics or author comments. So there could easily be contrary evidence that I've missed.

[RatElemental]

"Belkar ascends to godhood" is one of the mainstays in speculation on how Belkar could avoid his death prophecy, but let's take a look at it anyway.



Belkar is going to ascend to godhood, unsponsored by any existing pantheon, by the end of the year -- meaning he'll no longer be on the mortal plane or need to breathe.

Bit of a nitpick, but I'm pretty sure a god could breathe if they wanted to, and Belkar seems the type to do that just to spite the oracle if he ever found out the prophecy.


He is going to have green quiddity, like the old Eastern Pantheon. This is because the Eastern Pantheon wasn't annihilated by the Snarl as we've assumed, but shattered. Belkar is a remnant of Ares, or a descendant of one.

Interesting idea, but probably unnecessary. Green arose already, we know of no reason it can't do that again without the involvement of the original pantheon. Besides, as you point out later on, how on earth did a fragment of Ares survive this? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1139.html)



Of course there are problems with this. The biggest one I can think of is that Belkar wouldn't have any obvious group of worshippers, and I'm not sure how he'd acquire them in under a year.

Belkar has maybe a month left, I think. Bit fuzzy on the timeline but the new year is very close in comic time.

In short, this is one of the more out there ideas that have been bouncing around for a while now. But given Rich's track record of subverting expectations it could maybe happen. I'm just not going to put my quatloos on it: It would kind of cheapen Belkar's arc and feel kinda deus ex machina-y if it turned out he's part of a dead god and he goes off to recreate the pantheon in his own image while also resolving the snarl plot on his own without the dark one being involved.

[Peelee]

He has described himself on not one but two pivotal occasions as a "sexy shoeless god of war". On the second occasion, this was essentially how he defined himself.


Kinda sucks at it though (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0748.html).

[Flame of Anor]

But given Rich's track record of subverting expectations it could maybe happen.

With how many complicated theories have been bouncing around the forums for years, it seems to me that subverting expectations could be as simple as playing the prophecy absolutely straight. Belkar is killed, possibly with some fitting cap to his sort-of-redemption arc, and stays dead. That would surprise a whole lot of people, for some reason.

[Squire Doodad]

With how many complicated theories have been bouncing around the forums for years, it seems to me that subverting expectations could be as simple as playing the prophecy absolutely straight. Belkar is killed, possibly with some fitting cap to his sort-of-redemption arc, and stays dead. That would surprise a whole lot of people, for some reason.

This, in a nutshell. Enough bets have been placed on how the Giant will fool us all...and honestly, the simplest way to shock everyone is to make Belkar die die. Maybe by Snarl, maybe by Disintegrate, but in general not sneaking out some special way.

[PontificatusRex]

Kinda sucks at it though (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0748.html).

While I don't think Belkar is going to turn out to be an avatar or whatever of Ares, there is definitely a similarity. {scrubbed}

[Gluteus_Maximus]

Assuming in stickworld the solstice is placed in the same place during the last month of the year as in our world, then the solstice was the day of the godsmoot. Another day was spent fighting the vampires, and now we're on another day. Belkar has 8 days and counting to dodge the worst-case scenario of his prophecy.

[KorvinStarmast]

What do we know about quiddity so far?

[LIST]
There were originally four colors: red, blue, yellow, and green.

With the new Quiddity uncovered, purple/violet (The Dark One) that leaves us two more to ponder.
Orange and Indigo.

[Peelee]

With the new Quiddity uncovered, purple/violet (The Dark One) that leaves us two more to ponder.
Orange and Indigo.

Indigo is a fake color made up to confuse colorblind people.

[Rrmcklin]

I'm going to chime in and say I think people use the phrase "subverting expectations" way too liberally, especially when they're trying to argue for something that we just have no reason to believe.

Like, with this last cliffhanger, it was certainly a surprising end, but I don't think my expectations were "subverted" because I had no specific expectations in general.

[Schroeswald]

Indigo is a fake color made up to confuse colorblind people.

Addendum to that: Indigo is a fake color made up to confuse people.

[Grey Watcher]

I'm going to chime in and say I think people use the phrase "subverting expectations" way too liberally, especially when they're trying to argue for something that we just have no reason to believe.

Like, with this last cliffhanger, it was certainly a surprising end, but I don't think my expectations were "subverted" because I had no specific expectations in general.

I blame TV Tropes.

Anyway, I'm having trouble figuring, in this theory, why none of the gods would recognize the remnant of Ares, even if only in a vauge "Where do I know that from?" kind of way. I feel like a piece of divinity would stick out like the proverbial sore thumb, especially now that a lot of gods are almost certainly watching the Order's exploits, what with the Snarl being an integral part of their quest and all.

Granted, I'm firmly in the "Belkar's death will be just that" camp.

I don't think it's the fault of anything in this comic per se that people are so hung up on the idea that there might be twist ending to the "Belkar's prophecy" plot thread; fiction, especially recent fiction, is absolutely littered with instances of prophecies, foretellings, premonitions, and visions of the future that turn out to mean something entirely different than any reasonable reading would suggest that it's practically become the default in people's minds. It's a cheap way to get the profundity of making your hero doomed without having to actually go through with it.

What I think often gets lost is the best stories about "the prophecy didn't turn out the way you expected," don't hinge on the prophecy being wrong or confusingly worded or hinge entirely on a technicality or unintuitive reading of the text. They hinge on the context and circumstances being different than what the listener expects. Oedipus did indeed kill his father and marry his mother, as the Oracle at Delphi predicted. But rather than being the depraved act of deliberate usurpation everyone assumed at the start, it specifically came to pass because he didn't know that he was related to either of them in the first place.

Basically, if anything turns out to be unexpected about the fulfillment of Belkar's prophecy, it's not going to be the what, it's going to be the why.

[Roland Itiative]

Addendum to that: Indigo is a fake color made up to confuse people.

You guys are thinking about magenta (aka what's between violet and red on a colour wheel, and conspicuously missing from a rainbow). Indigo is actually in the visible light wavelength spectrum, being the colour between violet and blue.

Anyway, the quiddites are not meant to be defined as colours are defined in colour theory, as we generally just need to use three colours to define the whole spectrum (red-green-blue and cyan-magenta-yellow being genrally used depending on the situation), and anything else would just be a mix of these three base colours in different proportions. In OotS we have five (originally four) quiddities that are each represented by an unique colour, but mixing them does not create a quiddity of the mixed colours. It would technically be possible for a different shade of yellow (or any other colour) to come up as an entirely new quiddity, if the Giant felt like doing it.

[Peelee]

You guys are thinking about magenta (aka what's between violet and red on a colour wheel, and conspicuously missing from a rainbow). Indigo is actually in the visible light wavelength spectrum, being the colour between violet and blue.

Making assumptions about what my visible light spectrum contains is a dangerous game. :smallwink:

[Roland Itiative]

Making assumptions about what my visible light spectrum contains is a dangerous game. :smallwink:

Well, I'm talking more about the measurable light spectrum, not what one specific person or another can actually see, that obviously depends on the person.

Indigo is a colour with a specific wavelength range attributed to it, while magenta literally doesn't exist as a wavelength of light.

[Peelee]

Well, I'm talking more about the measurable light spectrum, not what one specific person or another can actually see, that obviously depends on the person.

Indigo is a colour with a specific wavelength range attributed to it, while magenta literally doesn't exist as a wavelength of light.

Look, you can tell me light at λ=400nm is technically called "snazzlefuzz," I'm still gonna call it blue. My joke stands! :smalltongue:

And, since I looked it up, Indigo is in the blue range. So it's blue. It's a fancy name for specific wavelengths of blue. Indigo, I declare thee snazzlefuzz!

[KorvinStarmast]

Indigo is a fake color made up to confuse colorblind people. I have a rainbow over there who disagrees with you. :smallcool:

Basically, if anything turns out to be unexpected about the fulfillment of Belkar's prophecy, it's not going to be the what, it's going to be the why. Yeah, I am with you, and I like the Oedipous example. (I think that's the general topic of a different thread, though).

[Reboot]

I blame TV Tropes.

Anyway, I'm having trouble figuring, in this theory, why none of the gods would recognize the remnant of Ares, even if only in a vauge "Where do I know that from?" kind of way. I feel like a piece of divinity would stick out like the proverbial sore thumb, especially now that a lot of gods are almost certainly watching the Order's exploits, what with the Snarl being an integral part of their quest and all.

Granted, I'm firmly in the "Belkar's death will be just that" camp.

I don't think it's the fault of anything in this comic per se that people are so hung up on the idea that there might be twist ending to the "Belkar's prophecy" plot thread; fiction, especially recent fiction, is absolutely littered with instances of prophecies, foretellings, premonitions, and visions of the future that turn out to mean something entirely different than any reasonable reading would suggest that it's practically become the default in people's minds. It's a cheap way to get the profundity of making your hero doomed without having to actually go through with it.

What I think often gets lost is the best stories about "the prophecy didn't turn out the way you expected," don't hinge on the prophecy being wrong or confusingly worded or hinge entirely on a technicality or unintuitive reading of the text. They hinge on the context and circumstances being different than what the listener expects. Oedipus did indeed kill his father and marry his mother, as the Oracle at Delphi predicted. But rather than being the depraved act of deliberate usurpation everyone assumed at the start, it specifically came to pass because he didn't know that he was related to either of them in the first place.

Basically, if anything turns out to be unexpected about the fulfillment of Belkar's prophecy, it's not going to be the what, it's going to be the why.

The other point to consider is that most of the subversions are part-way through a story in some way [e.g., in modern Doctor Who series 6, despite the Future Doctor being shown to die at the start, it was always clear that it would be worked around. After all, the Doctor wasn't going to Die Forever as Matt Smith owing to the fact that (barring cancellation) there were always going to be future regenerations, as a device to let the show continue while letting the actors leave. Plus further conventions like expecting it to be resolved in the same series, despite it explicitly being 200 Years Later].

In this case, Belkar's going to die near or at the end of the story. There's not going to be post-Book 7 OOTS stories if the Giant is to be believed. You're much likely to get a For Real Forever Death at the Final End than when it is expected or known there Will Be More.

[Cicciograna]

The biggest one I can think of is that Belkar wouldn't have any obvious group of worshippers, and I'm not sure how he'd acquire them in under a year.

Are you kidding? I think I can safely say that he can already annoverate 90% of the readers of this comic among his worshippers, and we have pretty solid proof that beliefs of everyday mortals from the real world DO have an impact on the gods of the OOTSverse (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1144.html).

[Flame of Anor]

Are you kidding? I think I can safely say that he can already annoverate 90% of the readers of this comic among his worshippers, and we have pretty solid proof that beliefs of everyday mortals from the real world DO have an impact on the gods of the OOTSverse (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1144.html).

Won't someone think of the poor, battered fourth wall?

[Peelee]

Won't someone think of the poor, battered fourth wall?

It's more like a window here, really.

[Jay R]

Of course there are problems with this. The biggest one I can think of is that Belkar wouldn't have any obvious group of worshippers, and I'm not sure how he'd acquire them in under a year.

By sacrificing himself to save a large body of people (or whatever race) where they can see him do it, of course.

I don't think this theory is correct. It's just another clever way that Rich could cleverly circumvent the clear intention of the author.

But this is not a difficult objection to overcome.