Build a good option religion around an evil god

[KyleG]

I am hoping for some ideas for creating a priest/religion of good tieflings who worship an evil god.
So far ive only been able to frame it around honoring that which gave them life, but I would like to create more depth than that.
The community are Levistus tieflings and they wouldn't be evil by even our modern standards (depending on your perspective of religion in general).
Keen to see what people suggest for practices, ideals, tenets of faith, etc for such an idea if its possible.

[BaconAwesome]

Can you build something around evil being a natural fact of life, the natural state of man, etc., and that it's the job of the clergy to fight against that?

E.g.,

- Foobar feeds on my list, my greed, my selfishness, and yours. Only by containing Foobar do we build the world we want to live in.

- When we die, it is the natural order of things for Foobar to capture our souls and give us the torture we deserve. When I and my sisters heal people, it is specifically to give them more time to achieve the nigh-impossible goal of leading a good life.

- Where do I get my holy powers? From Foobar, of course. As part of the natural order of things, the great evils he does has the unavoidable effect of fueling our clergy. I look forward to the day when the world is so good that I struggle to cast the simplest cantrip, but so far, my ninth level spells have been working just fine.

[Jophiel]

I'd start with what your want your evil deity to be in control of and work on giving it the best possible spin.

Death: Natural end of things, ashes to ashes, final rest, final rewards
Darkness: We're born from and first know darkness, beauty of night, comfort in being hidden
Assassination: A single strike against a tyrant can prevent thousand of lives lost in battle or liberate a city

So on and so forth. Obviously, you want your Tieflings to be sincere about it and work to push those beliefs rather than just providing propaganda.

[Damon_Tor]

The basis of the religion could be to appease an evil God, keep him content with small sacrifices and worship, so he doesn't turn a jealous eye toward the rest of the world.

[Fynzmirs]

The basis of the religion could be to appease an evil God, keep him content with small sacrifices and worship, so he doesn't turn a jealous eye toward the rest of the world.

Bonus points if the domain of that entity is something that is not bad when it's done in moderation. The priests would sincerly admire and fear their god as it would represent both virtue and sin, depending on circumstances.

A society of good farmers worshipping a god of hunger and consumption by regularly organizing massive feasts.

Or a cult of Graz'zt, Demon Lord of Hedonism that just wants to have some fun.

In both cases those groups would teeter on the edge of damnation and propably be declared sinners by the rest of the world. Of course if you ask them, they would declare that they are aware of danger but be glad to risk. It's entirely up to you how much they would be wrong.

[HappyDaze]

The basis of the religion could be to appease an evil God, keep him content with small sacrifices and worship, so he doesn't turn a jealous eye toward the rest of the world.

This is the path taken by one of my players' character in my Eberron game. He's a sailor that was almost lost in a storm and feels that he was spared by the Devourer (god of sea, storms, natural disasters, and dangerous wild beasts). He became a cleric of the Devourer with the Tempest domain and works to appease his god (rather than to honor him) by sating its hunger by gorging on the wicked and steering it away from those he cares about. In effect, he's the Silver Surfer to the Devourer's Galactus.

[Amechra]

You could have them misunderstand Levistus' true nature. He is, after all, locked away in ice, so it's not like it's all that surprising that they might misinterpret that as someone imprisoning a god of honor, planning, and self-reliance.

[Kane0]

A lawful evil (such as Asmodean) approach might be to promote stability and order, keeping the populace pacified and secure. Provide a good quality of life and even if the extremes get a bit nasty the average joe will probably settle for that over the alternatives. Think of the Monty Python 'What have the Romans ever done for us?' scene.

[ezekielraiden]

As I see it (and others have said) you have three paths:
1. Mistaken faith. Though they are tieflings, perhaps they think Levistus was imprisoned in Stygia for wanting to reform Hell into a more congenial place (and not, as is the generally-accepted reasion, that Levistus slew Asmodeus' favorite consort.) If you go this route, you have nearly free rein, as you can invent whatever faith you like; the group will in truth be clerics of a philosophy, they just believe they are worshippers of Levistus, yet another mistaken belief.

2. Propitiatory faith. They recognize Levistus as powerful, but they believe his imprisonment in Stygia is necessary to keep the universe safe--that were he to break out, he would overpower Asmodeus and become a terror like no other. So while they laud his virtues (tenacity, patience, charisma, etc.), they undertake both general and ritual efforts to maintain Levistus' prison, perhaps by specifically fighting devil-pact stuff (as that is thought to be how Levistus intends to break out--getting enough souls under his thumb). They could thus be a mix between freedom-fighters (opposing slavery and tyranny) and lawyers (working to either teach people why contracts with devils are The Stupidest Thing, or to break people out of devilish contracts they've already gotten into).

3. "Other aspect" faith. That is, steal the idea behind Nocticula in Pathfinder. Nominally, she is the queen of the succubi, but she also maintains a second divine form as the Redeemer Queen. Perhaps they see the "true" Levistus as being an honorable, righteous god, and believe that if they can work enough good in the world, it will enable only that part of him which is good and honorable to escape from the icy prison, creating a true deity of law and goodness. Under this notion, they would have more specific focus on creating justice and mercy in the world, rather than merely thwarting evil. The more good they do, the closer they come to freeing the "true" Levistus. If you take this route, you'll want to develop the persona they worship more fully, and you'll want to strongly consider whether they are right, wrong, or somewhere in-between (that is, perhaps there is a scrap of good left in him, but their efforts could be exploited by infiltrators to free Levistus but keep the good part trapped).

It'll be very hard to come up with specific suggestions as to oaths, rituals, observances, practices, etc. until you choose a path, whether one of the above three or something of your own making.

[KyleG]

You could have them misunderstand Levistus' true nature. He is, after all, locked away in ice, so it's not like it's all that surprising that they might misinterpret that as someone imprisoning a god of honor, planning, and self-reliance.

I think that's the closest so far. Feeds particularly well into my actual pc, who is on a personal quest to prove get self reliance. Her father is a practitioner

Might tie in a "he was entombed so we would not be and can live free" idea.

[KyleG]

As I see it (and others have said) you have three paths:
1. Mistaken faith. Though they are tieflings, perhaps they think Levistus was imprisoned in Stygia for wanting to reform Hell into a more congenial place (and not, as is the generally-accepted reasion, that Levistus slew Asmodeus' favorite consort.) If you go this route, you have nearly free rein, as you can invent whatever faith you like; the group will in truth be clerics of a philosophy, they just believe they are worshippers of Levistus, yet another mistaken belief.

2. Propitiatory faith. They recognize Levistus as powerful, but they believe his imprisonment in Stygia is necessary to keep the universe safe--that were he to break out, he would overpower Asmodeus and become a terror like no other. So while they laud his virtues (tenacity, patience, charisma, etc.), they undertake both general and ritual efforts to maintain Levistus' prison, perhaps by specifically fighting devil-pact stuff (as that is thought to be how Levistus intends to break out--getting enough souls under his thumb). They could thus be a mix between freedom-fighters (opposing slavery and tyranny) and lawyers (working to either teach people why contracts with devils are The Stupidest Thing, or to break people out of devilish contracts they've already gotten into).

3. "Other aspect" faith. That is, steal the idea behind Nocticula in Pathfinder. Nominally, she is the queen of the succubi, but she also maintains a second divine form as the Redeemer Queen. Perhaps they see the "true" Levistus as being an honorable, righteous god, and believe that if they can work enough good in the world, it will enable only that part of him which is good and honorable to escape from the icy prison, creating a true deity of law and goodness. Under this notion, they would have more specific focus on creating justice and mercy in the world, rather than merely thwarting evil. The more good they do, the closer they come to freeing the "true" Levistus. If you take this route, you'll want to develop the persona they worship more fully, and you'll want to strongly consider whether they are right, wrong, or somewhere in-between (that is, perhaps there is a scrap of good left in him, but their efforts could be exploited by infiltrators to free Levistus but keep the good part trapped).

It'll be very hard to come up with specific suggestions as to oaths, rituals, observances, practices, etc. until you choose a path, whether one of the above three or something of your own making.

Another great set of ideas. Ill Have to continue to think on this, but these have definitely opened up options.

[Dr. Cliché]

You could have them misunderstand Levistus' true nature. He is, after all, locked away in ice, so it's not like it's all that surprising that they might misinterpret that as someone imprisoning a god of honor, planning, and self-reliance.

I was going to suggest something along these lines.

Have them believe that Levistus was a good god, who was betrayed and frozen in ice.

In terms of practices, ideals, tenets of faith, etc., I've got a few ideas:

- Levistus being frozen in ice is perfect for a 'fire vs. ice' theme. Have them keep fires alight at all times. Their priests could even have lit torches or candles strapped to them as part of their clerical attire.

- Branding could be used as either a punishment or as part of an initiation ritual.

- One of their rituals could involve the melting of a block of ice, as a premature celebration of when Levistus is finally freed from his prison.

- Given the fate of their god, they could view imprisonment (whether magical or mundane) as the worst of cruelties. They could believe that only traitors deserve this fate. Indeed, even death may be seen as far less harsh a punishment.

- They must always be honourable in their dealings. Minor lies are not frowned upon but if a Levictus ever gives his word about something he *must* keep it.

[Sparky McDibben]

Or, you could have them be fully cognizant of Levistus' power and wickedness, but instead of worshipping him, they're siphoning his power off. Levistus isn't granting them prayers; they're stealing them. That's also why Levistus is sponsoring warlocks on the side - he needs someone to fight this crazy bunch of tieflings who dare to rob an archdevil.

Fun fact: Asmodeus imprisoned Levistus, so what if the Raging Fiend actually gave these tieflings the rites necessary to steal power from his imprisoned enemy as a way to keep Levistus weak? Now there's a moral dilemma, albeit a weaker one. Yes, the tieflings are imprisoning an evil archdevil, but they're securing Asmodeus' throne in doing so. Is that still good? You don't need to bring this up at first; it might make a great reveal later on that the "Masked Prophet" who taught the tieflings their ways is actually an avatar for Asmodeus.

[Tvtyrant]

They could also be fully cognizant that Levistus is Evil, but less Evil than Amadeus. Like he could have a plan to refocus Hell on the Blood War and away from stealing mortal souls, or believes that less tricky contracts will make more individuals willing to sign them and so increase the ability of Law to defeat Chaos.

[Sigreid]

They could be a wacko cult convinced that their god is misrepresented and misunderstood. Their god could bestow priestly powers because a little confusion could benefit him and is funny.

[KyleG]

Maybe I should focus them in on one aspect of him - honourable dualist, rivalry with set, determination/self reliance. That last one seems the best in some way, it would create a loose religious organisation, or a personal faith aspect. I wouldn't have to make up much for that part of the backstory.

Some great ideas ill have to consider for future campaigns.

[HappyDaze]

Wait... is Levistus the "evil god" that they worship, or is he just the source of their tiefling-ness and they worship an actual evil god? Because the latter offers much more opportunities than the former.

[KyleG]

Wait... is Levistus the "evil god" that they worship, or is he just the source of their tiefling-ness and they worship an actual evil god? Because the latter offers much more opportunities than the former.

I was considering an angle of worshipping their maker. My pc has levistus in her name so was trying to tie these together. But it might not be the best angle. Not sure.

[Rokir]

When it comes to devil, the blood war would be an option. Although Levistus is not the first choice here, in the end all the devils are involved.

The guiding principle would be "for the greater good" or "the end justifies the means".
You just have to think about how far that is "good" and not "righteous (neutral)"

A military approach:
-Soldiers are recruited for the eternal war
-The members must become strong during their lifetime
-Highest goal in life: destroy demons

A Judicial Approach:
-each criminal is to be judged
-For sinners, there is only one right place (hell)
-Sinners serve a good cause for all eternity (as soldier or „fuel“)

A generalized approach:
- Collect donations for the fight against demons
-Services of the members are for sale
-Even the poor can afford everything (with their soul)

Of course, it would be important to have absolute openness about the content of the religion. No lying, cheating or disguising. Anyone who commits to this matter must know what he/she is getting into (and confirm it with his/her signature...)

[HappyDaze]

I was considering an angle of worshipping their maker. My pc has levistus in her name so was trying to tie these together. But it might not be the best angle. Not sure.

Generally speaking, even Archdevils are not divine beings--with Asmodeus being the exception. If you want to go with worshiping a devil, then I'd stick with Asmodeus as an attempt to atone for the 'sins' of their bloodline's forebearer. Levistus is thus something of a divine warning that hits especially close to home with this group of Tieflings.

[1Pirate]

Seems like you've got plenty of material and a good idea about what you want to do but I'll just add one other possibility since it hasn't been mentioned: The "cursed" god.

Said deity was so evil/vain/cruel/insert-terrible-trait-here that the other gods/celestials/fiends/whatevers banded together and cursed/geased/enchanted/something'ed him/her/them so that his/her/their power could only be used by the selfless/brave/true/whatever-good-trait-tickles-your-fancy. So in order to keep worshipers, he/she/they have to grant spells and abilities to your chosen good people. Perhaps in the past, the minions of the deity hunted down and killed their ancestors, so they accept the divine powers as restitution. Or maybe it's the other way around. Their ancestors were the minions of the evil deity and now they use his/her/their power to correct their ancestors' mistakes.

[Evaar]

Check out the Blood Of Vol in Eberron. The religion and its practitioners aren’t evil. Erandis Vol and the Emerald Claw are.

[opaopajr]

God of Drugs, Madness, & Decadence becomes misinterpreted as the Party God. Has some analogous precedence with Bacchus (Dionysus) here on Earth. Not strictly from DnD alignment chart "evil to good," but definitely from frightening life mysteries to party religion. :smallsmile:

[moonfly7]

I am hoping for some ideas for creating a priest/religion of good tieflings who worship an evil god.
So far ive only been able to frame it around honoring that which gave them life, but I would like to create more depth than that.
The community are Levistus tieflings and they wouldn't be evil by even our modern standards (depending on your perspective of religion in general).
Keen to see what people suggest for practices, ideals, tenets of faith, etc for such an idea if its possible.

Ok, I think about stuff like this a lot, and I've actually got a phrase that might be something your tieflings might say, a phrase of wisdom if you will.
light is shaped by the darkness around it, without darkness we cannot see the light all around us
Meaning that evil deeds and actions are what shape and form the good in the world, that good is a response to evil.
So maybe your tieflings worship a god sworn to bring chaos and destruction because by their beliefs the chaos will cause good of equal or greater proportion, because good can only be as great as the evil it overcomes. Just an idea formed by my philosophy, hope it helps!

[JackPhoenix]

Check out the Blood Of Vol in Eberron. The religion and its practitioners aren’t evil. Erandis Vol and the Emerald Claw are.

Which doesn't help, actually, as neither are the object of worship. The Lich Queen just uses the religion for her own ends, but she didn't create it, just snuck in later. Emerald Claw are just her posse separate from the rest of the faith (and publically denounced by the official head of the religion). Many of normal practitioners also are evil, but that has little to do with the tenets of BoV itself (though the view that necromancy and undead are acceptable is propably contributing factor in them being more open to other evil practices)

Path of Inspiration would be better example. It's a lie and it serves to enslave people to psychic alien overlords, yes, but while Sarlona is hardcore totalitarian state, the people are safer, happier and more unified than anyone on Khorvaire. A most non-Inspired people could easily be Good and have follow PoI, if only because they don't (and can't, really) know better... that include most lower-ranking priests.