Swift action for Beguilers

[heavyfuel]

I'm creating a Beguiler and I'm also a big believer in the action economy and using every action every round. However, there doesn't seem to be many options for Beguilers besides Quickening Spells and feinting with Improved Feint.

Unfortunately, one of those requires high level spells (cheese aside), which I don't have, and the other requires two feats as well as going into melee.

So, what are some options for the low levels? I'm mostly looking for feats (though preferably just one single feat) or cheap items.

Thanks!

[daremetoidareyo]

einhander might allow for ranged feints.

[heavyfuel]

einhander might allow for ranged feints.

That's a fair point, but then I'm looking at lv12 minimum (BAB +6) and having to waste two rounds full-attacking someone

[Thurbane]

A few Beguiler spells innately have Swift or immediate casting times:

Etherealness, Swift
Halt
Hesitate
Mirror Image, Greater
Stay the Hand

Plus others you can pick up with Advanced Learning:

Bladeweave
Distract Assailant
Incite
Instant Diversion

Also, Wands etc. default to the casting times of the spells, so you could UMD other spells with Swift or Immediate casting times.

[heavyfuel]

Also, Wands etc. default to the casting times of the spells, so you could UMD other spells with Swift or Immediate casting times.

While I am aware of these spells, they are pretty situational, and not something to use (nearly) every round. But good point about wands! Will check out some nice ones (though suggestions are appreciated as always)

[Tvtyrant]

I'm creating a Beguiler and I'm also a big believer in the action economy and using every action every round. However, there doesn't seem to be many options for Beguilers besides Quickening Spells and feinting with Improved Feint.

Unfortunately, one of those requires high level spells (cheese aside), which I don't have, and the other requires two feats as well as going into melee.

So, what are some options for the low levels? I'm mostly looking for feats (though preferably just one single feat) or cheap items.

Thanks!

Anklets of Translocation. It lets you move cast move, or full turn casting and then move, get over enemies, etc.

[heavyfuel]

Anklets of Translocation. It lets you move cast move, or full turn casting and then move, get over enemies, etc.

Oh, I fully intend to get (a few of) these. I was hoping for swift actions for when I'm not in need of the teleportation

[Thurbane]

While I am aware of these spells, they are pretty situational, and not something to use (nearly) every round. But good point about wands! Will check out some nice ones (though suggestions are appreciated as always)

Here's a quick list based on a search of imarvintpa (some of these will probably not be all that useful):


Accelerated Movement
Aerial Alacrity
Aiming at the Target
Arrow Mind
Assay Spell Resistance
Avoid Planar Effects
Blade of Blood
Blades of Fire
Blinding Breath
Blockade
Blood Wind
Breath Flare
Celerity
Lesser Celerity
Critical Strike
Daggerspell Stance
Deep Breath
Deflect
Lesser Deflect
Energy Aegis
Energy Surge
Lesser Energy Surge
Entangling Staff
Swift Expeditious Retreat
Extend Shifting
Feather Fall
Swift Fly
Forcewave
Golem Strike
Guided Shot
Insightful Feint
Instant Locksmith
Instant Search
Master's Touch
Permeable Form
Returning Weapon
Shifter Prowess
Sniper's Shot
Spell Enhancer
Stand
Stretch Weapon
Suffer The Flesh
Sure Strike
Wand Modulation
Wave Blessing
Whispercast
Wings of Bounding
Wings of Cover
Wraithstrike

[Tvtyrant]

Oh, I fully intend to get (a few of) these. I was hoping for swift actions for when I'm not in need of the teleportation

Wands of:
Blockade-makes a block of wood that fills a square.
Celerity- take a standard action, then get dazed. Always good.
Dawn-wake up one individual, good for when you need to blast your own allies with sleep/etc.
Swift Fly
instant Diversion/swift invisibility
Whispercast- Next spell doesn't have somatic or cheap material components.
Wings of Cover- The best one, negates one targetted attack/spell per activation. This will be good forever.

Celerity and Wings of Cover are the best ones, combined with the anklets and you have a very strong use for your swift and immediate actions.

Edit: Ninjaed hard.

[Troacctid]

MIC also has lots of items with swift action activations. I'm personally a fan of the thorn pouch, but if you want something you can do every turn, you could try a talon scepter. And of course there are many others.

[Thurbane]

Many of the Devotion feats are swift or immediate to activate, but without a turn/rebuke pool, you'll be limited to 1/day.

Several of the Luck feats in CS have swift or immediate activation times.

Arcane Consumption and Arcane toughness are swift and immediate, but have some awful reqs.

Some of the Reserve feats in CM and CC have swift activation times.

Retributive Spell in CM lets you cast a spell, then "hold it" until someone attacks you, and trigger it as an immediate action. Its a +1 level metamagic.

[Biggus]

When looking for items in certain price range, the items by price lists in the MiC (p.235-265) are your friend. A quick scan turned up Arcanist's Gloves and the various Chronocharms all for 500GP each, and Bracers of Arcane Freedom for 2,300GP.

[Psyren]

Unfortunately, one of those requires high level spells (cheese aside), which I don't have, and the other requires two feats as well as going into melee.

Do you have any Quicken Rods? That way you're not stuck with just the situational spells or lowest-level ones, you can use whatever you want within the rod's range.

[Troacctid]

Do you have any Quicken Rods? That way you're not stuck with just the situational spells or lowest-level ones, you can use whatever you want within the rod's range.
Circlet of rapid casting at 15,000 gp is less than half the price of a lesser rod.

[Psyren]

Circlet of rapid casting at 15,000 gp is less than half the price of a lesser rod.

Agreed that it's a better purchase, provided you keep two things in mind:

1) You'll want to make sure the "combine items" rules are in play so that you don't miss out on your headband of intellect in this slot.

2) They have the same uses/day if you're quickening a 0th, 1st or 2nd-level spell, but anything higher than that and the rod(s) daily allotment pulls ahead.

Though I'd also ask, why not get both? It's not like Beguilers need to keep up with spellbook costs, or a weapon or shield.

[Thurbane]

As spontaneous casters, can Beguilers even make use of Quicken metamagic rods without the Rapid Metamagic feat or similar?


This feat can’t be applied to any spell cast spontaneously (including sorcerer spells, bard spells, and cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously), since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action.


A sorcerer still must take a full-round action when using a metamagic rod, just as if using a metamagic feat he possesses.

[heavyfuel]

@Anything involving quickening spells

The character is currently lv 2, and I don't know if we'll have access to magi-marts or if wealth will be distributed semi-randomly.

Also, a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis is the first item on my luxury grocery list, so quckening spells with rods or other items isn't really a priority


As spontaneous casters, can Beguilers even make use of Quicken metamagic rods without the Rapid Metamagic feat or similar?

That's also a good point.


When looking for items in certain price range, the items by price lists in the MiC (p.235-265) are your friend. A quick scan turned up Arcanist's Gloves and the various Chronocharms all for 500GP each, and Bracers of Arcane Freedom for 2,300GP.

Thanks! I'd completely forgotten about these pages. I'll put them to good use!

[Psyren]

As spontaneous casters, can Beguilers even make use of Quicken metamagic rods without the Rapid Metamagic feat or similar?

Huh - guess I was thinking of Pathfinder then which is much less stupid in this regard. Arcane Preparation I guess?


@Anything involving quickening spells

The character is currently lv 2, and I don't know if we'll have access to magi-marts or if wealth will be distributed semi-randomly.

Level 2 is a bit early to expect perfectly optimal action economy, no?

[heavyfuel]

Level 2 is a bit early to expect perfectly optimal action economy, no?

Perhaps. Martial Initiators do it from lv 1 though.

I'm just planning for the future, unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to spend money on a Quicken rod (or equivalent) anytime soon. There are a ton of items more important than it.

[Psyren]

Perhaps. Martial Initiators do it from lv 1 though.

Yeah, but far more powerful classes don't get anything to do with their swift until much later either, so it's not unreasonable for Beguilers to be similarly lacking.



I'm just planning for the future, unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to spend money on a Quicken rod (or equivalent) anytime soon. There are a ton of items more important than it.

If you're just planning for the future then there's no problem - shelve all these suggestions until you can afford one or more of them.

If you're specifically looking for something at level 2, I'm not sure there is anything.

[Troacctid]

Shape Soulmeld (Lucky Dice)? 🤷

[noce]

I wouldn't call distract assailant a situational spell for a beguiler.
It's very low level and makes the enemy flat footed, and you get bonus DC against flat footed opponents.
You can spam it pretty much every round hoping for a bad roll.