Timeline of Volume 6: The extent MITD has disrupted Team Evil to date.

[RickDaily12]

NOTE: Spoilers up to the current comic included.
Do not read any further if you do not want to encounter them. Main comic sources only, though.

After the argument that broke out between Team Evil at the final comic that was just recently posted, I became curious as to exactly how much time has passed that Team Evil has been at the North Pole, and how far they have actually progressed through Kraagor's Gate. Here's my compilation and source material so far:

Team Evil's Timetable:

#901, Team Evil teleports to the North Pole. This is "Day 1", and is the same day that Durkon died.

#924, Laurin: "You could owe me a favor [...] can be cleared before the end of the day."

#943: Julio tells Elan that he plans to leave the Mechane and leave Bandana in command.

#945: Night 1, as Laurin's favor has now been called by day's end.

#946: Day 2 - Julio leaves The Mechane. Bandana is now Captain of The Mechane.

#952: "Damn it! Three days in command, and I've already wrecked the ship." - It is currently Day 4.

#956: "About 12 hours [from Tinkertown]."

#963: It is Night 4, as the Mechane travels to Tinkertown.

#964: Day 5, at Tinkertown.

#965: "The ship will be ready first thing tomorrow morning."

#992: Day 6, the Mechane arrives at the Godsmoot.

#1030: "At least a day before we'll be at Firmament"

#1032: O-Chul and Lien get attacked by Oona.

#1037: "Almost got special dinner for you..." denotes same day Oona attacks the paladins. Day 6.

#1038: "Is already dusk!" + "He's preparing his spells for the night." Night 6.

#1039: As of Night 6,
- 107 doors shown, either partially or completely within view.
- Of these 107 doors, 16 have been marked with an "X".

#1040: "A few hours later"...

#1041: Only 1 door attempted on Night 6. "Should we try a second door?" + "NO."
- MitD marks 4 doors. 20 doors now marked with an X compared to #1039.
- TE attempts only a single door for the duration of Night 6.

#1042: As of Night 6, O-Chul and Lien arrive at their cliff base. O-Chul observes MitD marking doors.
- This means that MitD has marked an unknown number of additional doors prior to and after Night 6.
- Lien to cast "Sending" to Haley.

#1043: Still Night 6 en route to Firmament from OotS PoV.

#1049: Day 7, Passage Pass.

#1050: Haley confirming Lien's Sending took place on Night 6 during #1042.
- Also confirms no "time zone" differences between OotS and TE. Night 6 for OotS matches TE's.

#1084: "[The OotS] will arrive at Thor's temple in Firmament before midnight."

#1085: Team Vampire fails to penetrate Thor's temple at Firmament.

#1089: Day 7 is a Tuesday.
- Odin's Hall will be empty on Night 7.

#1090: OotS arrives at Firmament during Night 7, "before midnight", according to Hel's #1084.

#1094: However, the arrival at Thor's temple took place "after midnight", as per Minrah.

#1095: Team Vampire's #1085 attack took place "before dusk", six hours prior to OotS' arrival.
- Also, the Council of Clan Elders vote to take place during the "midmorning" of Day 8.

#1116: Battle at Odin's Hall begins, Night 7, as per 1089.

#1136: Night 7 - "How long has it been since you've died? [...]" "Uh, I think only aboot a week, m'lord."
- Current timeline matches Durkon's account of how long since his death.

#1152: Still Night 7, according to Roy, as dawn has not happened yet. Durkon to prepare spells.

#1155: Council of Clan Elders meeting begins. It is now Day 8.

#1179: Durkon freed after being dragged back to Temple of Thor by family.
- Probably still Day 8, as Durkon's family is still largely present without mention of prolonged time.
- Additionally, Godsmoot Clerics are preparing for lunch, when the Council met at morning.

#1180: "You've got an hour."

#1185: OotS departs roughly an hour later, according to Roy.

#1188: It is now dusk. Night 8 begins.

#1189: Sending received by Lien from Vaarsuvius. Lien and O-Chul are then attacked.
- OotS to arrive on Day 10.
- Team Evil: Five doors completed, making at least 25 doors with an X, when compared to Night 6.
- "We must have done six doors before- count the number of doors, and divide by the days-"
- "No, Oona is thinking not so many."


What we know based on the above source material:

1. Team Evil has been at Kraagor's Tomb for at least 8 nights.
2. At least 107 doors into Kraagor's Tomb exist, of which, 16 doors were marked with an X before Night 6.
3. Counting the five doors completed by Night 8, plus the one from Night 6, and the extra 3 forged by the MitD on 1041, at least 25 doors have been marked with an X by 1189.
4. Oona never recalls a day where six doors have been attempted before. If her memory is correct, which is probably true (note MitD's reaction to her memory), then of the 16 doors marked with an X prior to Night 6, if a maximum of 5 doors have ever been tried on a single day, Door 16 was marked on Day/Night 5. This means that Team Evil has been attacking doors since Day/Night 2.
5. Redcloak notes that the Mean Average of doors completed is greater than 6. If Team Evil began attacking doors as early as Day 2, then as of Day 8, Team Evil has been attacking doors for at least seven days. For Doors checked/Days passed to be greater than 6, at least 42 doors have been marked by this point.
6. If both 4 and 5 are true by all accounts, MitD has false marked at least 20 doors. This adjusts the number of marked doors to at least 42.


...Which, is also pretty surprising, given that it would mean that just about every door TE has gone through, MitD has also faked one. After that many days, you think someone with good Wisdom like Redcloak or strong Racial skill bonuses like Xykon would have noticed? :smallconfused:

[Fish]

...Which, is also pretty surprising, given that it would mean that just about every door TE has gone through, MitD has also faked one. After that many days, you think someone with good Wisdom like Redcloak or strong Racial skill bonuses like Xykon would have noticed? :smallconfused:
It's fairly likely that each of them has noticed, but is blaming the other.

[Ekul]

It's fairly likely that each of them has noticed, but is blaming the other.

Yes; and they could be blaming the other for marking false doors, or for doing them in secret to try and find the door before the other.

I wonder if it's possible that one of the members of TE is in fact doing some doors in secret to some end? Probably not, but it's worth considering.

[Riftwolf]

They might consider some external force before thinking its MitD. It'd be easy enough for a guardian to get some paint and trick them, after all.
Really if Redcloak was Lawful, he'd have kept an up-to-date spreadsheet tracking the number of doors per day and used numerics on the cleared doors. He must be lapsing towards Neutral Evil <\sarcasm>

[littlebum2002]

They might consider some external force before thinking its MitD. It'd be easy enough for a guardian to get some paint and trick them, after all.
Really if Redcloak was Lawful, he'd have kept an up-to-date spreadsheet tracking the number of doors per day and used numerics on the cleared doors. He must be lapsing towards Neutral Evil <\sarcasm>

You're joking, but this is 100% true. The first time we saw them at the dungeon, they only did one door before calling it a night. Today they did 5. Assuming they haven't gained the numerous levels it would take in order for the dungeon to become 5x easier in only a few days, it's safe to say that some doors are MUCH harder than others. Keeping track of which doors are harder would help him recognize any potential patterns.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

You're joking, but this is 100% true. The first time we saw them at the dungeon, they only did one door before calling it a night. Today they did 5. Assuming they haven't gained the numerous levels it would take in order for the dungeon to become 5x easier in only a few days, it's safe to say that some doors are MUCH harder than others. Keeping track of which doors are harder would help him recognize any potential patterns.

Or they've become a lot more frustrated and just want it over with. The difference between 1 and 5 dungeons is huge, I'll admit, but maybe at first they just yolo'd into them uncoordinated and stopped when they were more than halfway through Redcloak's healing spells but still topped off on hp, while now they use more tactics to make their resources last longer, go until they are out of magic full stop and then 80 hitpoints into their health (maybe they use ritual casting of healing magic to refill during the day? Is that even a thing?) and maybe use some potions and other consumables on top of it. That would definitely make 3 or 4 dungeons per night reasonable. 6 is a bit of a stretch, but with the DR of the monster in the dark being utilized better and Xykon being more serious about it them having done 5 tonight wouldn't be that weird.

[HorizonWalker]

(maybe they use ritual casting of healing magic to refill during the day? Is that even a thing?)

Nope, there's no ritual casting in third edition.

[Reboot]

Here's the thing - whether MITD has helped or hindered TE will not become clear until the Gate is found. Because if it's in a door he DIDN'T mark, or if it's not in "Monster Hollow" AT ALL... then he's helped them by eliminating wrong answers.

If he's marked all the paths to the Gate, OTOH (or if they get killed trying a sixth one in a day or something like that, but that's pretty unlikely), then he has hindered them.

Intent doesn't really matter in this instance, even if he's clearly not trying to help them. Disrupt or not disrupt, something something.

[Finagle]

Having a scene with Team Evil remarking they're doing six doors a night just serves to increase the tension during the Christmas break.

There will eventually be a scene where they've done all the doors and get frustrated. Oona, the most likeable Chaotic Evil murderer since Thog (what is it about the author that makes him keep creating affable murderers?), will get angry about it and probably get killed to emphasize how evil Team Evil is. MITD will keep quiet about it as usual because nobody thinks he's smart enough to do anything. Cue OOTS arrival and plot thickening.

[Hekko]

They might consider some external force before thinking its MitD. It'd be easy enough for a guardian to get some paint and trick them, after all.
Really if Redcloak was Lawful, he'd have kept an up-to-date spreadsheet tracking the number of doors per day and used numerics on the cleared doors. He must be lapsing towards Neutral Evil <\sarcasm>

I wonder if there is some external force. After all, why is MitD doing this? He's never been shown understanding the main plot. So what set him up to do it? Maybe he noticed someone marking an extra door and made friends with them?

The smart thing for the guardian at this point is to unmark doors that do not lead to the gate. If they know which door hides the gate, it's easy. If they don't, well, swap marked and unmarked doors when about half of them is marked (but in that case it would have helped if there were no false marks).

[Riftwolf]

I wonder if there is some external force. After all, why is MitD doing this? He's never been shown understanding the main plot. So what set him up to do it? Maybe he noticed someone marking an extra door and made friends with them?

The smart thing for the guardian at this point is to unmark doors that do not lead to the gate. If they know which door hides the gate, it's easy. If they don't, well, swap marked and unmarked doors when about half of them is marked (but in that case it would have helped if there were no false marks).

I think he's realised he should take notice of the plot because Xykon and Redcloak don't have his best interests in mind.

Depending on how smart he's gotten, he might even know as much about Redcloak's plan as Tsukiko did.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Here's the thing - whether MITD has helped or hindered TE will not become clear until the Gate is found. Because if it's in a door he DIDN'T mark, or if it's not in "Monster Hollow" AT ALL... then he's helped them by eliminating wrong answers.

If he's marked all the paths to the Gate, OTOH (or if they get killed trying a sixth one in a day or something like that, but that's pretty unlikely), then he has hindered them.

He has also hindered them by making their method of search accounting unreliable - possibly forcing them to start over - and could cause them to be overconfident in their abilities and take on more doors than they can realistically handle.

It also weakens their confidence in one another, already at minimum lows. Sure, once they figure out that someone is marking unexplored doors, MitD is the obvious culprit for it, but RC and Xykon are in a constant state of paranoia about each other that could easily lead them to rejecting the obvious answer as a clever ploy by the other.

Grey Wolf

[KorvinStarmast]

(what is it about the author that makes him keep creating affable murderers?) 1. This is the same author unable, or unwilling, to write a father that isn't bad/poor/horrible. (Except maybe Inkyrus).
2. This author made a choice early on in dealing with stereotypicalyly evil NPCs/Monsters: take this back to about strip 5 or so. That choice included 1) making them a bit more three dimensional, such as giving them names and poking at the murderhobo habit of treating monsters as bags of XP and 2) in a number of cases giving them motivations and character traits (particularly Redcloak and Xykon, but others as well like Sabine) that fleshed them out as characters. With that in mind it is no surprise that a variety of evil characters like Thog or Malack also gets extra care - though still thoroughly evil and bloody handed by nature - with an "on screen" presence that is not bound by some of the perceived the limits of the genre.

I think the Giant has done a nice job with this. His article on character motivations among evil NPC's is a nice insight to his thought process on that, as is his "build a villain" framework (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/rTKEivnsYuZrh94H1Sn.html).

[Roland Itiative]

I wonder if there is some external force. After all, why is MitD doing this? He's never been shown understanding the main plot. So what set him up to do it? Maybe he noticed someone marking an extra door and made friends with them?

O-Chul is the external force. MitD understands that O-Chul wants Team Evil to fail, and realised that O-Chul is more concerned witht his wellbeing than Team Evil is. He still doesn't understand the main plot, but he knows he should side with O-Chul rather than Xykon on principle.

[CriticalFailure]

(what is it about the author that makes him keep creating affable murderers?)

Who wants to read about boring and unlikable characters? I doubt we'll get 20 pages from the life of Todd, the guy who rubber stamps the execution orders for political dissidents and fluffy bunnies from his desk, because it's just not interesting to read about. "Todd scanned the paper work to ensure that everything was in order. 'I can't wait to watch The Bachelor' when I get home, thought Todd. 'Maybe I'll splurge and order pizza tonight too.' Everything was in order, so he stamped the form. He picked up the next one and started scanning that as well. 'The coffee in the break room was awful again today. I think the logistics department has been scrimping with these budget cuts.' He scowled. This form wasn't compliant to their mandatory record keeping procedures! 'Well,' thought Todd, 'I'll get you in the end - after I have a nice little chat with the HR about your AN-1903 form! Muah ha ha!'"

[Finagle]

1. This is the same author unable, or unwilling, to write a father that isn't bad/poor/horrible.
You know, I never noticed that, but...you're right. Every single father is bad. Wow, that's deep. That certainly explains a lot. I always got the idea that the arguments between Eugene and Roy were his own fights with his father. Girard is terrible, Kubota is terrible, Malack is terrible, Yikyik is terrible, even Loki. The only good guy is Julio Scoundrel, and he always disappears. Gosh, that's even deeper.


I doubt we'll get 20 pages from the life of Todd, the guy who rubber stamps the execution orders for political dissidents and fluffy bunnies from his desk, because it's just not interesting to read about.
You can write evil characters without making them likeable. Everyone loved Thog, and everyone loves Oona. "It’s weird, no matter how many people he kills, the audience still thinks he’s lovable." They're written that way on purpose. We need to cheer for the villains to lose. Boring characters are boring no matter what their alignment.

[Riftwolf]

I think the Giant specifically said that just because most of the father figures in the story aren't great doesn't mean that reflects his personal life.

[CriticalFailure]

You can write evil characters without making them likeable. Everyone loved Thog, and everyone loves Oona. "It’s weird, no matter how many people he kills, the audience still thinks he’s lovable." They're written that way on purpose. We need to cheer for the villains to lose. Boring characters are boring no matter what their alignment.

I was being a bit glib, but it's both for that reason and because it's a comedy. I think OOTS sets up villains so that people cheer when they are defeated, but their likability is part of the entertainment value as a comedy and what makes it fun. Joking about evil characters and dark stuff isn't bad and just because people enjoy reading about Thog or Xykon or Redcloak and find their parts funny doesn't mean they condone their actions. No one comes to this website thinking they are going to be reading Lolita or something.

[Hekko]

O-Chul is the external force. MitD understands that O-Chul wants Team Evil to fail, and realised that O-Chul is more concerned witht his wellbeing than Team Evil is. He still doesn't understand the main plot, but he knows he should side with O-Chul rather than Xykon on principle.

I don't think that explains all of it. We're talking about a creature who used to forget about the gate during being explained about the gate while standing next to the gate. He seems to retain the information somehow (he tried to stop O-Chul from attacking Xykon by using his name) but he was greatly motivated at the moment. Where did the motivation for another step up come from?

O-chul's influence explains the willingness to work agains TE. I'm saying something or someone must have given MitD the idea to do it specifically this way.

Perhaps he witnessed the guardian marking an extra door early on and mimicked that?

[Mariele]

He has also hindered them by making their method of search accounting unreliable - possibly forcing them to start over - and could cause them to be overconfident in their abilities and take on more doors than they can realistically handle.

It also weakens their confidence in one another, already at minimum lows. Sure, once they figure out that someone is marking unexplored doors, MitD is the obvious culprit for it, but RC and Xykon are in a constant state of paranoia about each other that could easily lead them to rejecting the obvious answer as a clever ploy by the other.

Grey Wolf

Absolutely, and good point on both confidence notes.

I wrote a similar tangent in the main comic thread. There's an extremely low chance that the gate is going to be behind any of these doors, and it's just as likely to be behind a door that MitD crosses off as one that they actually adventure through. If they reach the last door and haven't stumbled across the right one (which seems likely, going by just how many MitD is falsely marking), they'll be forced to start all over again. This is absolutely hindering them.

I will say that I don't know if MitD will be the obvious culprit. I'm thinking Oona would be. She's the only one they don't have significant ties to maintaining a good relationship with. I could see RC or Xykon killing her in a fit of suspicion, easily.


I'm saying something or someone must have given MitD the idea to do it specifically this way.
I don't think it requires any great genius or ingenuity to realize that "hey, they expect me to mark off the door they just went through--what if I marked off ones they didn't?" counts as sabotage. It would be the first thing that I would think of, easily. Doesn't require any direct confrontation and is something they weren't paying much attention to.

Oh--and great thread! Thanks for putting this together, I was too lazy to go through and get numbers. :smallredface: Very helpful.

[Quebbster]

You know, I never noticed that, but...you're right. Every single father is bad. Wow, that's deep. That certainly explains a lot. I always got the idea that the arguments between Eugene and Roy were his own fights with his father. Girard is terrible, Kubota is terrible, Malack is terrible, Yikyik is terrible, even Loki. The only good guy is Julio Scoundrel, and he always disappears. Gosh, that's even deeper.

What about uncle Geoff? Not exactly morally upstanding, but he was willing to make big sacrifices for his son's well-being at least.

[LadyEowyn]

Ian isn’t terrible. He’s made some poor decisions, yes, but he and Haley clearly love each other.

And Kubota isn’t a father and Malack’s ‘kids’ die offscreen well before the story begins.

[Quebbster]

Daigo certainly looks like he wull be a good father too.

[Ortho]

You know, I never noticed that, but...you're right. Every single father is bad. Wow, that's deep.

It's not as deep as you imagine. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222955-Disappointing-Fathers-and-Saintly-Mothers-in-OOTS/page2&p=12240501#post12240501)

On topic, this is a pretty cool analysis. I don't think I've seen a thread that analyzes the timeline of the strip before.

[mjasghar]

I think it’s more being unwilling to write mothers as bad figures and then falling back to oh well it must be the father that messes the PC backstory up

[Morquard]

I personally believe that the MitD has an above average Intelligence score.

He took one glance at the ritual, and realized it was only half, something Tsukiko despite having studied magic theory and all, did not realize.
He picked up on the rules of Go quickly and easily recognized when O-Chul tried to cheat.

There's been a few other instances too. And he indicated to O-Chul that he simply prefered not to think (AKA use his intelligence score), because its easier and just have others tell him what to do/think.

But once he started thinking for himself, I do believe he started putting things together. Especially since both Xykon and RC think he's a harmless dummy, they usually don't care if he's nearby when they discuss things.

[RickDaily12]

As per 1191, only one night has passed between Night 8 and the current comic, as per "didn't need to listen to Elan explain the plot for the second night in a row."

As it is now dawn, it is currently Day 10.

Theoretically, as Team Evil was near the end of their spelunking as of Night 8, it means that up to 6 additional doors were likely marked yesterday, bringing our theoretical total to 48 marked doors.

EDIT: Another fun fact: if we were to instead use Roy's Resurrection as our Day 1, as that was "at least a fortnight + that fits in with Durkon's timeline" (source: comic 842) prior to Durkon's death, it is now Day 25. The Order has a maximum 4 and a half weeks left before the end of the in-comic year.

[hamishspence]

EDIT: Another fun fact: if we were to instead use Roy's Resurrection as our Day 1, as that was "at least a fortnight + that fits in with Durkon's timeline" (source: comic 842) prior to Durkon's death, it is now Day 25. The Order has a maximum 4 and a half weeks left before the end of the in-comic year.

The "at least" is Belkar's estimate. It appears to be slightly longer:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?361715-Countdown-to-Belkar-s-Death-Scene

20 days rather than 14, between Roy's resurrection and Durkon's death.

[RickDaily12]

The "at least" is Belkar's estimate. It appears to be slightly longer:

https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?361715-Countdown-to-Belkar-s-Death-Scene

20 days rather than 14, between Roy's resurrection and Durkon's death.

Interesting. Ok then.:smallcool: So this is Day 29 since Roy was revived, as Day 20 = Day 1 by these standards.

"More than seven weeks" = 50-55 days, so Belkar, as of now, dies within the next roughly 21 days.

We should be well into the final month of the comic year, then.

[Qaanol]

4. Oona never recalls a day where six doors have been attempted before. If her memory is correct, which is probably true (note MitD's reaction to her memory), then of the 16 doors marked with an X prior to Night 6, if a maximum of 5 doors have ever been tried on a single day, Door 16 was marked on Day/Night 5. This means that Team Evil has been attacking doors since Day/Night 2.
5. Redcloak notes that the Mean Average of doors completed is greater than 6. If Team Evil began attacking doors as early as Day 2, then as of Day 8, Team Evil has been attacking doors for at least seven days. For Doors checked/Days passed to be greater than 6, at least 42 doors have been marked by this point.


This is not quite right. Redcloak notes that the average of doors completed is greater than 5. As in, if you take the number of days they have been there, and multiply by 5, that is the most doors that could have been opened without exceeding 5 per day. Redcloak says that at least one more door than that has been marked.

Mathematically, this is called the pigeonhole principle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeonhole_principle).

[Seward]

I like the theory that they brute forced the early runs and then shook down as a team and were able to do more doors in one night without depleting Redcloak so quickly.

The limiting factor in the first run was his ability to heal them. High level parties that use tactics tend to win without taking much damage, as they burn down the opposition before they can effectively fight back. Then your limiting factor tends to be more your buff durations and how much your offense depends on spells rather than melee/archer type actions.

Losing track of how many doors you've done per night seems a bit odd, but I guess once you are up to 4-5, thinking you were just in a fog of fatigue when you did door 6 on a prior night seems plausible if an objective count shows that you must have done more than you thought, as it would seem even more implausible that you'd think you did only 1 door when you actually did 2.

[Seward]

If they reach the last door and haven't stumbled across the right one (which seems likely, going by just how many MitD is falsely marking), they'll be forced to start all over again. This is absolutely hindering

Well from a probability standpoint, any door you've already cleared has been proven to not have the gate, improving the odds that the next door you pick might be the right one.

It is a "pull from sample bag" selection not "return to bag" selection. MitD is hiding some of the samples so they never get drawn, and each door he crosses out improves the odds that one of those will be the key one that has the gate in it.

Obviously his chance of making them start over depends on how many fake doors he marks vs doors opened, but at least he can eliminate all cleared dungeon doors from his potential extra Xs.

The longer they go without finding the gate, the higher the chance that the true door is in the MitD bucket, not the unopened door bucket.

Plus remember that in this universe probability will always service drama like a 3 dollar whore. Before the MitD got involved the only chance for Drama was to have the OOTS arrive before the right door got opened. Now it has two options...that one or that the door is already marked.

I like the odds that Drama will prevent anything as boring as Team Evil finding the gate before OOTS arrives, especially when given two visible options to do that (leaving aside any twist on this that the Order of Scribble rogue has left in place)