Ways to create Dim Light / Darkness

[Chrizzt]

Hello folks!

Both the Shadow Sorcerer and the Shadow Monk have the ability to travel to/from zones of dim light or darkness (to a place they can "see").

Which ways to create zones of dim light or darkness do you know of? I am especially keen on ways which allow to make those on 2 different points, so that in an extreme example if there is brightest sunlight but you have to bridge a chasm you create zone A on your side, zone B on the other one, and travel over it (yeah, there are more easier ways, thats just an example for the thought).

Here is the definition of dim light from the open reference doc:

Dim light, also called shadows, creates a lightly obscured area. An area of dim light is usually a boundary between a source of bright light, such as a torch, and surrounding Darkness. The soft light of twilight and dawn also counts as dim light. A particularly brilliant full moon might bathe the land in dim light.

Anything like that or darker counts:

Things I have come up with, which might create dim light or darkness:

a) Cast Darkness via Sorcery Points as a Shadow Sorcerer. This, however, only allows to make one zone, because darkness is a concentration spell. And darkness cannot be twinned, to my understanding of the rules.

b) Snuff out any candles / sources relying on light via control flames and pyrotechnics or in the case of unprotected fire-relying light sources via gust of wind.

c) Shadows of Moil creates an area of dim light around the caster.

d) Maddening darkness creates darkness in a 60 foot radius, though I dont think you can usually see in it as either a monk or a shadow sorcerer.

Can you think of anything else? Or of more exotic ways or spells?

Thank you!

[Segev]

It's potentially a little cheesy, but if you can cover yourself in a cape or canvas or the like, you've created a dark spot within it. It depends whether your DM rules that things you count as "carrying" must come with you or not; if not, then you could vanish from beneath it like a stage magician, appearing at a shadowed area elsewhere. As long as you can see through the veiling item, or you've got it wrapped like a hood with an opening that doesn't permit non-dim light to penetrate to your face, you're in dim light/darkness and can see your potential destination.

Now, any other means of creating dim light or darkness at a distance can work.

This does, of course, mean you're leaving that cloak or tarp or whatever behind.

Less questionably, you can set up the large cloth square to block the light source and cast a shadow over you. This may require a frame of some sort. Or maybe allies, such as party members or minions or unseen servants to hold it up. A Tower Shield likely would serve well for this purpose. Again, you're leaving it behind, though.

If your DM allowed illusions to cast shadows, a minor illusion of some sort of statue or boulder or wall fragment can create your little zone of shadow. At either end, really.

Your own allies' shadows, or those of your enemies or even noncombatants can qualify. As long as it's big enough to hide in. So, again, a little questionable.



d) Maddening darkness creates darkness in a 60 foot radius, though I dont think you can usually see in it as either a monk or a shadow sorcerer.


This is also DM-dependent, but magical darkness doesn't necessarily blind those within it. The "ink blot" model of it does, but the non-ink-blot model has it no more blind those within it than natural darkness does. They can't see anything with them in the dark, but they can see things in better-lit areas just fine. Given the loose use of "can see" with the nature of the shadow-teleport ability in question, having line of sight (even if you can't see due to the darkness) might let you teleport WITHIN the magical darkness.

[birdboye713]

On a bright day, you could just use an umbrella. Then just throw a decently sized object (or maybe use telekinesis or catapult) to a decent distance away and teleport into its shadow. Depending on how your DM would rule it, you could even teleport into the shadow of an arrow, but most DMs would probably rule that more than half of the space has to be dim light or darkness in order to teleport. Other options include having the party druid become a large bird and flying over, or summoning a decently sized creature to cast a shadow.

[Chrizzt]

Those are all great suggestions! From your ideas, I take it that perhaps any kind of shadow thrown might count? Even the shadows of other characters?

I apparantly was under the inpression that you need something more substantial than that. But then: the description of dim light even says shadows.

The cape from under which to vanish is very great for my vampire-like shadow sorcerer (though he should pack spare capes perhaps). Its in the same vein as the unbrella idea.

But since anything casts a shadow in bright sunlight, there might be little restriction in terms of targets. But then, shadow jump or step becomes step at will, doesnt it? Where is the limitation then?

[Segev]

Those are all great suggestions! From your ideas, I take it that perhaps any kind of shadow thrown might count? Even the shadows of other characters?

I apparantly was under the inpression that you need something more substantial than that. But then: the description of dim light even says shadows.

The cape from under which to vanish is very great for my vampire-like shadow sorcerer (though he should pack spare capes perhaps). Its in the same vein as the unbrella idea.

But since anything casts a shadow in bright sunlight, there might be little restriction in terms of targets. But then, shadow jump or step becomes step at will, doesnt it? Where is the limitation then?

The limitation is whatever you discuss with your DM, really. He may not like the idea that any old character's shadow is sufficient, but could be fine with terrain features' shadows working, or deliberately set-up things working. Maybe a character has to take an action to cast a sufficiently large and stable shadow for it to work. For example, you can't teleport to the shadow of the rogue unless the rogue takes an action to stand tall and spread his cape wide to maximize the size of his shadow.

But all this is DM negotiation, at this point. WHat is he willing to let you use?

While I was typing it, and again when you mentioned layering capes, this Worm fanfic (https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/camera-shy-worm-alt-power.685357/) came to mind. In it, the main character has a superpower that lets her freeze time and go ghost whenever nobody can see her. She can't go solid and resume time again until she's in a spot where nobody is looking.

[Damon_Tor]

Thaumaturgy dims flames within 30 feet. It's not useful in sunlight (unless you can get within 30 feet of the sun) but it's great inside anyplace lit by torches, candles or lanterns. It's more action efficient than control flames, and it can effect magical flames as well as mundane ones, so you can use it on things like everburning torches or where control flames would do nothing.

Of course control flames can totally eliminate the flame, but it can only do so one at a time.

[Chrizzt]

Thank you for your inputs.

I will talk with my DM. He has already hinted at, that this ability seems to powerful. But this was months ago, we are still a long way from lvl 14, he made much homebrew since then. And I'm not sure he thinks the same about it still.

Thaumaturgy sounds cool. Too bad that I don't have the room to acquire it via feat. Our cleric is quite.. egocentric and has very combat related thoughts about what is useful and what not. Guess I will have to educate him ^^

[Tanarii]

Definitely talk to your DM. The way the phb is written it's implied that naturally occurring dim light is part of the environment, not something you manipulate.

Certainly I've always ruled that Shadow Monks cannot use someone else's shadow, an overhang, or even the inside of an unlit building (so long as it has decent windows). None of those are areas of dim light IMC.

[Keravath]

Definitely talk to your DM. The way the phb is written it's implied that naturally occurring dim light is part of the environment, not something you manipulate.

Certainly I've always ruled that Shadow Monks cannot use someone else's shadow, an overhang, or even the inside of an unlit building (so long as it has decent windows). None of those are areas of dim light IMC.

I'd tend to disagree with some of your rulings depending on circumstances and level of ambient lighting.

From the PHB:

"Dim light, also called shadows, creates a lightly obscured area. An area of dim light is usually a boundary between a source of bright light, such as a torch, and surrounding darkness. The soft light of twilight and dawn also counts as dim light. A particularly brilliant full moon might bathe the land in dim light."

Dim light and shadows are synonymous according to the rules. It is a DM judgement as to whether there is sufficient shadow to be called dimly lit. Under an overhang or at the entrance to a cave on a brightly lit day could easily be dimly lit and heavily shadowed. Inside a forest during the day could potentially be dimly lit depending on the amount of coverage. You can still see reasonably well in dimly lit conditions.

The inside of an unlit building depending only on light coming in windows would likely be a combination of lit (within the areas near the light sources and where they strike the ground and dimly lit throughout the rest).

Similarly, natural darkness is NOT the complete absence of light.

"Darkness creates a heavily obscured area. Characters face darkness outdoors at night (even most moonlit
nights), within the confines of an unlit dungeon or a subterranean vault, or in an area of magical darkness."

Outside at night, even most moonlit nights, is considered darkness. If you have ever walked outside on these types of nights without a light source, you can usually see reasonably well. Objects may just be shadowy outlines but it is sufficient to move around and still be somewhat aware of your surroundings. Even under trees at night, the stars can often provide enough light to navigate cautiously.

Anyway, the point I am making is that dimly lit, based on the rules is an area with shadows and reduced lighting, not an area of darkness, and some of the examples you presented could actually be considered dimly lit. (though as always, your game, your interpretation).

[Spiritchaser]

But since anything casts a shadow in bright sunlight, there might be little restriction in terms of targets. But then, shadow jump or step becomes step at will, doesnt it? Where is the limitation then?

It’s not strictly RAW, but if you use levels of light, most of this goes away. That is, you can use these abilities in regions of dim light or darkness (or whatever you define as sufficiently dark)

That would mean that shadows in bright sunlight are still too bright, but that potentially anywhere is fair game in moonlight.

Now: that last phrase is a bit loaded because it leads to a discussion about the reasonable level of light where it is “dark”

5e defines bright moonlight as darkness (about 0.01 lux or a bit more, which is actually still pretty bright to be calling something darkness)

Anyway, just have a chat with your DM.