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Sparky McDibben
2019-12-03, 11:43 PM
Hey all,

I'm playing a divine soul sorcerer in my current game. Anybody got any good combos from the cleric/sorcerer spell list? I'm level 7 and got some serious analysis paralysis here.

All Might
2019-12-04, 12:04 AM
Hey there,

We'd love to help. First, can you give us a bit more information? Do you have a specific role you're trying to fill? Who are the other members of your party? Are you looking to do more damage, heal, support, or a combination of the three?

Thanks!

Sparky McDibben
2019-12-04, 12:25 AM
Hey, sorry about that. Looking for healing and support. Other party members are revived rogue and rune knight foghter.

Chaosticket
2019-12-04, 12:45 AM
In general I would recommend against the Divine Soul Sorcerer because you add the Cleric spell list to your options EXCEPT you are still bound to a Spell Known limit.

If you want a Divine/Arcane spellcaster, then use a Bard, or just use a Cleric.

That said picking a Divine Soul adds +1 spell to your Spells Known list above the limit. The Law type has the Bless Spell, which is a pretty good Buff spel for your team.

Multiclassing another class would help. a Paladin would require 13+ Strength but give you access to weapons and armor not normally allowed.

Pex
2019-12-04, 01:08 AM
Twin Spell is very good for a Divine Soul. Twin Guiding Bolt is the biggie. Twin Healing Word is nice. Twin Guidance. Twin Revivify. Twin Death Ward. Twin Lesser Restoration.

Teaguethebean
2019-12-04, 01:09 AM
With your party I would reccomend twin haste as your fighter would love a higher ac along with another attack, and your rogue would certainly love that too. To keep foes back while your buff is going, a fire ball never hurt anybody (except for when it did). Additionally blindness/deafness is actually a very potent concentration free debuff that will give your fighter and rogue oodles of advantage. Some other useful picks are Healing word, Sanctuary, Shield, and absorb elements.

Hope this helps!

All Might
2019-12-04, 02:30 AM
In general I would recommend against the Divine Soul Sorcerer because you add the Cleric spell list to your options EXCEPT you are still bound to a Spell Known limit.

If you want a Divine/Arcane spellcaster, then use a Bard, or just use a Cleric.

That said picking a Divine Soul adds +1 spell to your Spells Known list above the limit. The Law type has the Bless Spell, which is a pretty good Buff spel for your team.

Multiclassing another class would help. a Paladin would require 13+ Strength but give you access to weapons and armor not normally allowed.

I agree with all of the points here. I generally use Divine Soul as a dip in my builds because it's a single class that can offer a huge amount of versatility in a very low number of levels. And, like Chaos says, it can get rather restricting at higher levels when you have the options of two distinct classes for spells, but a relatively small number of spells known. The point about paladin is also quite valid as Sorcadin builds can get extremely powerful very quickly. It alleviates some of the stress of the "spells known" problem because some of the popular "must-have" lower-level Cleric spells spill over into the Paladin spell list (Cure Wounds, Bless, etc.) leaving you with more free slots to fill with more nuanced Cleric/Sorcerer spells that fit your playstyle.

That being said, there are some good combinations of spells and features you can use if you're going Divine Soul Sorcerer with no multiclassing.

1. If you haven't already taken them, Thaumaturgy and Guidance are great utility cantrips that can complement a support Sorcerer's kit quite nicely. If your DM is pliable, they can give significant benefits if played imaginatively.

2. One of the things that makes Divine Soul so desirable is the access to healing and resurrection spells from the Cleric spell list. Take advantage of this fact, but only take what you need. Too many healing spells will hamstring your utility as a sorcerer.

3. An example of an actual combination that can work well is Mass Cure Wounds combined with your Empowered Healing class feature. It's useful if there's one person hurting more than everyone else and you have a need to be frugal with your spell slots. It's not quite as good as Beacon of Hope (which is a powerful combination with Mass Cure Wounds at higher levels), but it can help give the tank his fair share of the healing in a pinch if he doesn't roll well the first time.

4. A good amount of your combinations are going to come from Metamagic manipulations and class features, not just spell combinations alone. Play to those strengths and pick some of your spells based on what complements them or compensates for a weakness. For example, remember that Angelic Form's flight capability at Level 14 doesn't go away until you're knocked out or you dismiss it. As a Sorcerer, you have access to Greater Invisibility, and healing spells from the Cleric list. An invisible flying support Sorcerer that can heal and resurrect (especially with Distant Spell Metamagic) from the air is a significant advantage.

Hope this helps to get you started!

Jophiel
2019-12-04, 09:50 AM
With your party I would reccomend twin haste as your fighter would love a higher ac along with another attack, and your rogue would certainly love that too.
I'm sure someone else has done the math but I'm wondering if twinned Greater Invisibility would be better: Advantage on all their attacks, disadvantage for foes attacking the fighter & rogue and the advantage means easy Sneak Attacks for the rogue as well. No lost turn if concentration is lost. Obvious downsides are greater spell cost (both slot and points) and needing to be in touch range of both to cast it. Also, a DM might decide that, as the only visible target, you're... a target.

Theaitetos
2019-12-04, 01:39 PM
Also, a DM might decide that, as the only visible target, you're... a target.

Take Sanctuary and cast it on yourself. :smallsmile:

Sparky McDibben
2019-12-04, 02:11 PM
Take Sanctuary and cast it on yourself. :smallsmile:

That...is a good call. For some reason I keep thinking Sanctuary is a concentration spell.

Jophiel
2019-12-04, 02:51 PM
Take Sanctuary and cast it on yourself. :smallsmile:
True, that. I took a one level cleric dip so between a 20AC, Sanctuary and Shield, the DM usually just looks at me and sighs deeply. Hey, I gotta keep these buffs up!

In a small party though, being able to cast offensively or at least use a Spiritual Weapon might be relied upon.

Theaitetos
2019-12-04, 04:29 PM
I can also recommend Twinned Command, which is really strong for a 1st level spell +1 sorcery point. Maybe your DM also allows you some additional "each other"-shenanigans with the Twinned effect, like "Hug!" – forcing two creatures to restrain each other – or "Kiss!", or …! :smalltongue:

It's also a wonderful spell to use out-of-combat: "Fart!" when kissing the queen's hand, "Laugh!" during the elder's eulogy, "Pee!" while performing on stage, or "Confess!" when questioned by the watchmen, … can be a real problem for a lot of people. :smallamused: Probably best used with Subtle (or Distant, as the command doesn't need to be heard, only understood).

HiveStriker
2019-12-07, 08:42 AM
Hey all,

I'm playing a divine soul sorcerer in my current game. Anybody got any good combos from the cleric/sorcerer spell list? I'm level 7 and got some serious analysis paralysis here.
It really depends on three things.

1. You can allow yourself to focus on a specific role or two, because party has other casters.
2. You picked Divine Soul mainly for archetype features (free Cleric spell, reroll, etc) or for spells.
3. Metamagic choice!

A few wild things.
- If you have Extend, any spell lasting at least one hour that can benefit you or a party member is worth considering (even if it's only for a while), and Aid and Death Ward should stay in your list always. To conserve resources, having a movable spell (including Dawn or even Spiritual Weapon from Cleric), preferably on a bonus action, is nice.
- If you have Twin, Shield of Faith is a great low-cost buff when Bless would be irrelevant (or at least less relevant to the situation).
- If you have Quicken, Aid can be a "small mass Healing Words", Heal becomes really interesting to consider,
- If your party tends to take time to set up safe places or ambushes, Glyph of Warding is a definitive pick to keep at all times.
- In case you play a Sorcerer with definitive resilience (like multiclass something for armor and HP), Warding Bond and Spirit Guardians may be worth taking.
- Heroes's Feast is a great party buff, and Forbiddance can trivialize some challenges.

Overall though, unless you are ok being "mainly a healer/buffer with metamagic benefits", you should simply pick only 3 or so spells from Cleric, those your party may need the most, and otherwise build and think as a regular Sorcerer.

OR, easy way, dip into other casters to greatly expend your low-level utility, so you're free to swap Sorcerer 1st and 2nd level into higher level ones. :)

Bobthewizard
2019-12-07, 09:41 AM
If you can, I would recommend Divine Soul 1/Lore bard 6 since you are the only caster. Take shield, absorb elements, and cure wounds as a sorcerer, then you only need lesser restoration as a bard and you've got pretty good healing. If you take moderately armored for a feat then you can use spirit guardians and either revivify or counterspell as your 6th level magical secrets. I think this gets you an overall better spell selection than just divine soul alone.

If you want to just be divine soul at level 7, it's hard to fit all the spells you need into the sorcerer's limited preparations. Once you take shield, absorb elements, mage armor, lesser restoration, counterspell and revivify, you only have 2 preparations left. You could take Bless as your free spell and then healing word but then you only have one other spell. So you probably need to sacrifice something defensively, likely absorb elements, to get another offensive spell. So let's say hypnotic pattern and polymorph.

Corran
2019-12-07, 10:28 AM
Hey, sorry about that. Looking for healing and support. Other party members are revived rogue and rune knight foghter.
Not familiar with the archetypes, but do you know if they are going to be melee or ranged builds? Cause this makes some difference imo.

Sparky McDibben
2019-12-07, 10:48 AM
Rogue will be ranged, but the rune knight is melee.

HiveStriker
2019-12-07, 11:18 AM
I can also recommend Twinned Command, which is really strong for a 1st level spell +1 sorcery point. Maybe your DM also allows you some additional "each other"-shenanigans with the Twinned effect, like "Hug!" – forcing two creatures to restrain each other – or "Kiss!", or …! :smalltongue:

It's also a wonderful spell to use out-of-combat: "Fart!" when kissing the queen's hand, "Laugh!" during the elder's eulogy, "Pee!" while performing on stage, or "Confess!" when questioned by the watchmen, … can be a real problem for a lot of people. :smallamused: Probably best used with Subtle (or Distant, as the command doesn't need to be heard, only understood).
As much as I love the spell, I'm not sure that's that good of a use-case for Twin. After all, Command scales target naturally, so you can perfectly bear to upcast it if you want to target 2 creatures at the same time. It just costs you "potentially 1 more SP" in case you'd need to recreate a 2nd spell slot.

Jophiel
2019-12-07, 11:19 AM
I took a one level dip in Life Cleric with my Divine Soul although, if you were to dip cleric, you might want to pick a different one.

At level 8 (DS 7/Cleric 1) my 7th level sorcerer side list was:
Cantrips
Fire Bolt, Sacred Flame, Toll the Dead (one Attack, two Saves targeting different things)
Prestidigitation, Shape Water (Flavor)

1st
Command (non-concentration, easily make target waste turn and give others advantage to hit by forcing it to go prone, etc)
Healing Word (Obvious pick)
Shield (Obvious pick)

2nd
Prayer of Healing (Perhaps less important for your small group; I play this char at a table of 5+. Maybe Spiritual Weapon or Aid instead)
Suggestion (Useful both in combat and out; esp. with Subtle)

3rd
Counterspell (Obvious)
Haste (Twinned, melees love me)
Mass Healing Word (You only have two people other than you so I'd just twin regular Healing Word and take Fireball instead)

4th
Polymorph (Boost melee or act as an emergency 100+hp "heal", can take out a bad guy but Save or Suck)

At the same time, on the Cleric side, I had Bless, Cure Wounds, Guiding Bolt and Sanctuary (and Guidance, Mending & Light). I don't have Absorb Elements but can't say that I've felt its absence though your adventures might be different. Chain armor & shield make Mage Armor pointless. You might want to stay 100% sorcerer; just mentioning it because the cleric perks affected my sorc spell choices.

Theaitetos
2019-12-07, 11:34 AM
Can you tell us your stats and metamagic choices? That would make it easier thinking about possible ideas.

Or if you're comfortable with your current sorcerer spell level, you could do some multiclassing:

For example, if you have INT 13+ you could dip a single level into wizard to get a familiar (as well as 7 other rituals!). Familiars are a great way of delivering touch spells (of which there are many on the cleric spell list) while staying out of enemy range.

Or take levels as a warlock. The Hexblade patron would give you proficiency with all weapons and "CHA Finesse", as well as light & medium armor and shields, which allows you to significantly boost your defensive capabilities and you wouldn't need Mage Armor. A single level would add a 1st-level spell slot per short rest, which allows more healing a day. Although with a rogue & fighter in party you probably won't do short rests, right?

If you have Twinned Spell as metamagic, the otherwise dubious Life Transference can turn out to be useful, as you can heal both your friends for 4d8 HP, although it is very expensive (3rd-level spell slot, 3 sorcery points).

Similarly, Warding Bond is a dubious option, that may turn useful to shield your friends against damage when twinned – but it's dangerous unless you have the defensive capabilities of taking the damage; it works well if you're able to attain some resistances/immunities from somewhere (items, spells, racial feats, …), e.g. Absorb Elements (against energy damage), Shield (against Magic Missile only), Investiture of Fire/Frost, Armor of Resistance, Ring of Warmth, Staff of Fire/Frost, Tiefling (fire, poison), Yuan-Ti (poison), Dragonborn (color), Aasimar (radiant, necrotic).

Other good twinned spells are Blindness/Deafness, Enhance Ability, Hold Person, Shield of Faith, Inflict Wounds, Command, Guiding Bolt. Since known spells are tight, probably ignore the grey ones. Twinned Guiding Bolt is very strong since it enables your Rogue friend to use sneak attack on two enemies.

Command is sooo strong, allowing you to control movement/actions of enemies: Flying enemies can be dropped to the ground (Grovel! Prostate! Kowtow!), armed enemies can be forced to lay down their weapons/shields (Surrender! Doff!), spellcasters can be forced to break concentration (Sleep! – works on elves with Dream!), aura/presence enemies can be forced to go "Hide!", creatures with multiple arms can be told to "Handwalk!", mounted combatants have to "Dismount!", fast enemies can be restrained/paralyzed (Freeze!), and many other shenanigans. (subject to DM decisions, ask beforehand)

Twinned is rarely ever worth it on spells higher than level 2 and lower than 8, unless it's to reduce material costs, concentration, or otherwise powerful (e.g. Twinned Resurrection, Twinned Conjure Celestial).


As much as I love the spell, I'm not sure that's that good of a use-case for Twin. After all, Command scales target naturally, so you can perfectly bear to upcast it if you want to target 2 creatures at the same time. It just costs you "potentially 1 more SP" in case you'd need to recreate a 2nd spell slot.

Well, the examples were given for special shenanigans commanding two people to do something to each other if the DM allows it: "Hug (each other)!" The usual upcast probably doesn't allow that option.

Dork_Forge
2019-12-07, 01:36 PM
Everyone else seems to have this covered, the only things I'd add is:

Remeber to use your Favored by the Gods, having a SR resource on a Sorcerer threw me off at first so I missed some opportunities to use it.

Divine Souls get an extra spell known! Whilst there is some fluff about it being tied to your alignment you CAN change that spell to any other Cleric spell by RAW, which helps the spells known issue a lot.

Corran
2019-12-07, 02:21 PM
Rogue will be ranged, but the rune knight is melee.
This answer is very messy (and far from complete), so apologies in advance. The best it could be is to serve as the base of further discussion.
All right. My first instinct would be to take the twinned metamagic. Buffing two allies with a strong buff is very good for a party of 3 pcs. Between the various (concentration) buff spells that can be twinned (and even those that cannot be twinned, but more or less function the same in principle; eg bless, which targets 3 allies), I think the best choice is greater invisibility. Ideally you want to buff the fighter and yourself with it. Why you two and not the rogue (even if the rogue is a great candidate for invisibility)? Because the ranged rogue has already the best chances of surviving encounters. Being a ranged build, and between cunning action and uncanny dodge, you don't have to worry about the rogue. You have to worry about the melee fighter being swarmed and dropped, which can happen relatively easily since it's the only character tanking. And you have to worry about your character, who despite planning to be in range, you can still drop pretty easily if targeted by ranged attacks or if engaged in melee (as opposed to the rogue). So your buff needs to protect you as well, both from losing concentration (despite it being relatively well protected by con save prof and by favored of the gods) and from dropping inconscious (which will lose you concentration anyway, but that's the least of your concerns; losing one out of three characters can easily enough create a domino effect and lead to a TPK). Haste would be good on the fighter, and great on the ranged rogue (ready action cheese), but who's protecting you then? Not to mention how the backlash from losing concentration to it will hurt exactly because you are a small party. A twinned polymorph can never be bad at this level, but again, who is protecting you in that case? Buffing yourself with polymorph can easily lose you concentration too. Bless is nice, but it doesn't help the fighter wether the storm, and it wont protect your hp as well as great invisibility will. Shield of faith is not bad, but again, greater invisibility is far more beneficial and it justifies the resources in your case. So yeah, bottom line, I'd plan for twinned greater invisibility as my main weapon.

I said before that you don't have to worry about the rogue when using twinned gr invisibility. There is one notable exception though. The party can be weak in ranged combat in some situations. I don't imagine your melee fighter being great with ranged attacks, and your ranged attacks are not that damaging either. The one character that has strong ranged attacks is the rogue. But, if the rogue is denied their sneak attack damage, then your group's ranged damage output drops dramatically. So, if for example you expect some fight with lots of ranged enemies, or flying enemies, or if you are expecting to fight something that could poison or frighten your rogue from a distance, that's the time to use greater invisibility on the rogue (and on yourself, so that you also keep alive and concentrating). The fighter can (and probably should in some of these cases) dodge if he has to, and act as bait for the ranged enemies while you and the rogue try to take them out. The trick is of course having a good idea of what the encounter will be like beforehand, as if combat starts and you twin gr invisibility on you and the fighter, and you end up needing the rogue's ranged attacks and the rogue cannot use sneak attack, then you could be in trouble. So, greater invisibility will not solve these situations entirely, only when you know what to expect beforehand. Generally though, and if you don't know what to expect from the fight, stick with casting it on you and on the fighter. But just keep in the back of your head that you can use it on the rogue (instead of the fighter) when you fear that something (be it very mobile ranged enemies, or some debuff that inflicts fear or poison) might shut down the rogue's sneak attack.

Now, having greater invisibility on yourself means two things as far as your defense goes. First, attacks against you have disadvantage. This is only as good as your effective AC. Being attacked at disadvantage while having an AC of 13 means that still the chances of being hit are pretty good. So you need to find ways to increase your effective AC. Shield is an obvious choice. I'd take mage armor too. Mage armor improves the profit you gain out of both shield and great invisibility, but also you'll need it (in combination with shield) for every encounter where you are not using greater invisibility (at this point your slots are still limited if greater invisibility is meant to be your main thing). The second thing that greater invisibility means as far as your survivability goes, is that you don't provoke attacks of opportunity when moving away from enemies that engaged you. With all of greater invisibility, mage armor and shield, you can withstand some pressure, and take some heat off the fighter, but still, you want to avoid tanking, especially if you manage to lure the enemies at a distance at least one turn's worth away from your fighter. A boost to your speed would be nice. Have a look at the halfelf variant that gets the movement speed boost (logically it's the wood elf variant), for a 35' base speed.

Oh, and one last mention about greater invisibility. Between being able to move around more freely and not being prone to being counterspelled, it makes counterspell even more desirable than it already is for a party where no one(?) has access to it.

So, to summarize, I'd go with halfelf variant, twinned and greater invisibility, shield, mage armor and counterspell for sure. How to proceed from here? First, let me mention something else.

A dip into hexblade will really help you in two (or three) major ways. First of all, it improves your AC while also making enough room for spells (since you no longer need mage armor and since you could have shield as a warlock spell). Secondly, a 2 level dip will improve your ranged damage, which is an area your group will lack when the rogue cannot sneak attack (this is a concern). And thirdly, the additional 1st level slots that recharge on a short rest, can be put to very good use by such a build. Between spells like shield, absorb elements, healing word and sanctuary (which can be great in your set up if the initiative order favors you using it, say, on the fighter while engaged by lots of enemies who play before him), those extra 1st level slots will find some good use. So, in short, I'd consider a 2 lvl hexblade dip by level 11 (so that I'd be hex2/sorc9).

Back to 'where we go from here'. What am I concentrating on when I cannot or don't want (because I think that there are harder fights ahead for example) to use greater invisibility?
The first thing you have to address, is what you'll be concentrating on when you cannot or don't want to use greater invisibility. Because at this level you are pretty limited spell slot wise. We already have twinned. Polymorph does not cut it, since it's a 4th level spell as well. Haste (on the ranged rogue mainly, for ready action cheese) would be good, but it's too risky for my liking. You could grab all of haste, mirror image and misty step, and hope that these spells along with whatever else you already have or might have (mage armor, shield, sanctuary) will be able to protect you from dropping unconscious and/or losing concentration to it, but that overloads your already loaded list of known spells, and I still find it too risky for my liking. And besides that, if you are already planning to use twinned greater invisibility, twinned haste puts even more pressure on your sorcery points. But it's an idea that you could as well consider (tending to think it's a bad idea though overall, as I am writing this). Twinned shield of faith would be good if you had to characters planning to fight in the front line, but as it is, I'd prefer to look for something better as my main back up to greater invisibility. Bless is nice (and even nicer for a party with 3 pc's), but it wont protect your fighter or you all that much from dropping.
One idea, is to start as a hexblade 1/divine soul 6, with the plan to go into melee and help your fighter. In which case you postpone everything else greater invisibility related mentioned so far till you get your next level. And you plan on concentrating on twinned shield of faith (on you and on the fighter) and spirit guardians, depending on the nature of the encounter. The other idea is to pick careful as your second metamagic (your second metamagic needs to be a cheap one anyway, since twinned spell is expensive), and one of hypnotic pattern or fear. Out of the two solutions, I like better the first one. Partially because once you get enough levels (ie slots) with which to use greater invisibility, careful will become kind of a wasted metamagic (especially since if you end up getting the hexblade levels later anyway, you could always count on spirit guardians once your AC is shored up to act as a party friendly AoE). Plus, having the option to go into melee and help out your fighter (at least until you get greater invisibility and enough slots to spam it) makes for a more balanced and survivable party. Plus, you can put the hexbade level (eventually levels, I'd say 2) to good use, both because they free up some space in your list of known spells (and there are plenty of other spells that you could really use in this party, that I have not even touched on yet, and because you can put the extra 1st level slots to pretty good use). Yep, the more I think about, the more certain I am that starting as a hexblade1/divine soul 6, and counting on twinned shield of faith and spirit guardians, with an eye of getting greater invisibility next level, is the best way to go here. Plus, an AC 19 and extra slots with which you can use shield, means that you can use twinned greater invisibility on the fighter and on the rogue more often without worrying too much (like you would, if you were an AC 16 sorcerer with the usual slots -that have competition- for shield; and rogues can profit a lot from being invisible).

To touch briefly on some other spells I didn't mention so far at all. Aside from classic stuff like a fireball. First. Revivify, later retrained to raise dead. Being a good buffer means that you have the right buffs for your allies. If your allies die and you get new ones, you might find your build lacking if the change is significant. You need stability, so that your choices remain effective. Plus, in a group where no one else has the ability to bring back the dead, getting it is pretty good on its own right anyway. You need something that will help the rogue get their sneak attack damage back when they lose it. Dispel magic and lesser restoration could do the trick most of the time. (Twinned) heroism as a backup will be great when you are fighting something that can emit fear (and hence potentially deny the rogue's sneak attack and potentially deny the fighter from approaching it and smacking it). These last spells you probably want to look at a bit later, once you have enough free room in your list of known spells (again, remember that the hexblade level or levels can really help with that). Aid will be a very good use of your second level slots.

Sparky McDibben
2019-12-07, 08:00 PM
This answer is very messy (and far from complete), so apologies in advance. The best it could be is to serve as the base of further discussion.
All right. My first instinct would be to take the twinned metamagic. Buffing two allies with a strong buff is very good for a party of 3 pcs. Between the various (concentration) buff spells that can be twinned (and even those that cannot be twinned, but more or less function the same in principle; eg bless, which targets 3 allies), I think the best choice is greater invisibility. Ideally you want to buff the fighter and yourself with it. Why you two and not the rogue (even if the rogue is a great candidate for invisibility)? Because the ranged rogue has already the best chances of surviving encounters. Being a ranged build, and between cunning action and uncanny dodge, you don't have to worry about the rogue. You have to worry about the melee fighter being swarmed and dropped, which can happen relatively easily since it's the only character tanking. And you have to worry about your character, who despite planning to be in range, you can still drop pretty easily if targeted by ranged attacks or if engaged in melee (as opposed to the rogue). So your buff needs to protect you as well, both from losing concentration (despite it being relatively well protected by con save prof and by favored of the gods) and from dropping inconscious (which will lose you concentration anyway, but that's the least of your concerns; losing one out of three characters can easily enough create a domino effect and lead to a TPK). Haste would be good on the fighter, and great on the ranged rogue (ready action cheese), but who's protecting you then? Not to mention how the backlash from losing concentration to it will hurt exactly because you are a small party. A twinned polymorph can never be bad at this level, but again, who is protecting you in that case? Buffing yourself with polymorph can easily lose you concentration too. Bless is nice, but it doesn't help the fighter wether the storm, and it wont protect your hp as well as great invisibility will. Shield of faith is not bad, but again, greater invisibility is far more beneficial and it justifies the resources in your case. So yeah, bottom line, I'd plan for twinned greater invisibility as my main weapon.

I said before that you don't have to worry about the rogue when using twinned gr invisibility. There is one notable exception though. The party can be weak in ranged combat in some situations. I don't imagine your melee fighter being great with ranged attacks, and your ranged attacks are not that damaging either. The one character that has strong ranged attacks is the rogue. But, if the rogue is denied their sneak attack damage, then your group's ranged damage output drops dramatically. So, if for example you expect some fight with lots of ranged enemies, or flying enemies, or if you are expecting to fight something that could poison or frighten your rogue from a distance, that's the time to use greater invisibility on the rogue (and on yourself, so that you also keep alive and concentrating). The fighter can (and probably should in some of these cases) dodge if he has to, and act as bait for the ranged enemies while you and the rogue try to take them out. The trick is of course having a good idea of what the encounter will be like beforehand, as if combat starts and you twin gr invisibility on you and the fighter, and you end up needing the rogue's ranged attacks and the rogue cannot use sneak attack, then you could be in trouble. So, greater invisibility will not solve these situations entirely, only when you know what to expect beforehand. Generally though, and if you don't know what to expect from the fight, stick with casting it on you and on the fighter. But just keep in the back of your head that you can use it on the rogue (instead of the fighter) when you fear that something (be it very mobile ranged enemies, or some debuff that inflicts fear or poison) might shut down the rogue's sneak attack.

Now, having greater invisibility on yourself means two things as far as your defense goes. First, attacks against you have disadvantage. This is only as good as your effective AC. Being attacked at disadvantage while having an AC of 13 means that still the chances of being hit are pretty good. So you need to find ways to increase your effective AC. Shield is an obvious choice. I'd take mage armor too. Mage armor improves the profit you gain out of both shield and great invisibility, but also you'll need it (in combination with shield) for every encounter where you are not using greater invisibility (at this point your slots are still limited if greater invisibility is meant to be your main thing). The second thing that greater invisibility means as far as your survivability goes, is that you don't provoke attacks of opportunity when moving away from enemies that engaged you. With all of greater invisibility, mage armor and shield, you can withstand some pressure, and take some heat off the fighter, but still, you want to avoid tanking, especially if you manage to lure the enemies at a distance at least one turn's worth away from your fighter. A boost to your speed would be nice. Have a look at the halfelf variant that gets the movement speed boost (logically it's the wood elf variant), for a 35' base speed.

Oh, and one last mention about greater invisibility. Between being able to move around more freely and not being prone to being counterspelled, it makes counterspell even more desirable than it already is for a party where no one(?) has access to it.

So, to summarize, I'd go with halfelf variant, twinned and greater invisibility, shield, mage armor and counterspell for sure. How to proceed from here? First, let me mention something else.

A dip into hexblade will really help you in two (or three) major ways. First of all, it improves your AC while also making enough room for spells (since you no longer need mage armor and since you could have shield as a warlock spell). Secondly, a 2 level dip will improve your ranged damage, which is an area your group will lack when the rogue cannot sneak attack (this is a concern). And thirdly, the additional 1st level slots that recharge on a short rest, can be put to very good use by such a build. Between spells like shield, absorb elements, healing word and sanctuary (which can be great in your set up if the initiative order favors you using it, say, on the fighter while engaged by lots of enemies who play before him), those extra 1st level slots will find some good use. So, in short, I'd consider a 2 lvl hexblade dip by level 11 (so that I'd be hex2/sorc9).

Back to 'where we go from here'. What am I concentrating on when I cannot or don't want (because I think that there are harder fights ahead for example) to use greater invisibility?
The first thing you have to address, is what you'll be concentrating on when you cannot or don't want to use greater invisibility. Because at this level you are pretty limited spell slot wise. We already have twinned. Polymorph does not cut it, since it's a 4th level spell as well. Haste (on the ranged rogue mainly, for ready action cheese) would be good, but it's too risky for my liking. You could grab all of haste, mirror image and misty step, and hope that these spells along with whatever else you already have or might have (mage armor, shield, sanctuary) will be able to protect you from dropping unconscious and/or losing concentration to it, but that overloads your already loaded list of known spells, and I still find it too risky for my liking. And besides that, if you are already planning to use twinned greater invisibility, twinned haste puts even more pressure on your sorcery points. But it's an idea that you could as well consider (tending to think it's a bad idea though overall, as I am writing this). Twinned shield of faith would be good if you had to characters planning to fight in the front line, but as it is, I'd prefer to look for something better as my main back up to greater invisibility. Bless is nice (and even nicer for a party with 3 pc's), but it wont protect your fighter or you all that much from dropping.
One idea, is to start as a hexblade 1/divine soul 6, with the plan to go into melee and help your fighter. In which case you postpone everything else greater invisibility related mentioned so far till you get your next level. And you plan on concentrating on twinned shield of faith (on you and on the fighter) and spirit guardians, depending on the nature of the encounter. The other idea is to pick careful as your second metamagic (your second metamagic needs to be a cheap one anyway, since twinned spell is expensive), and one of hypnotic pattern or fear. Out of the two solutions, I like better the first one. Partially because once you get enough levels (ie slots) with which to use greater invisibility, careful will become kind of a wasted metamagic (especially since if you end up getting the hexblade levels later anyway, you could always count on spirit guardians once your AC is shored up to act as a party friendly AoE). Plus, having the option to go into melee and help out your fighter (at least until you get greater invisibility and enough slots to spam it) makes for a more balanced and survivable party. Plus, you can put the hexbade level (eventually levels, I'd say 2) to good use, both because they free up some space in your list of known spells (and there are plenty of other spells that you could really use in this party, that I have not even touched on yet, and because you can put the extra 1st level slots to pretty good use). Yep, the more I think about, the more certain I am that starting as a hexblade1/divine soul 6, and counting on twinned shield of faith and spirit guardians, with an eye of getting greater invisibility next level, is the best way to go here. Plus, an AC 19 and extra slots with which you can use shield, means that you can use twinned greater invisibility on the fighter and on the rogue more often without worrying too much (like you would, if you were an AC 16 sorcerer with the usual slots -that have competition- for shield; and rogues can profit a lot from being invisible).

To touch briefly on some other spells I didn't mention so far at all. Aside from classic stuff like a fireball. First. Revivify, later retrained to raise dead. Being a good buffer means that you have the right buffs for your allies. If your allies die and you get new ones, you might find your build lacking if the change is significant. You need stability, so that your choices remain effective. Plus, in a group where no one else has the ability to bring back the dead, getting it is pretty good on its own right anyway. You need something that will help the rogue get their sneak attack damage back when they lose it. Dispel magic and lesser restoration could do the trick most of the time. (Twinned) heroism as a backup will be great when you are fighting something that can emit fear (and hence potentially deny the rogue's sneak attack and potentially deny the fighter from approaching it and smacking it). These last spells you probably want to look at a bit later, once you have enough free room in your list of known spells (again, remember that the hexblade level or levels can really help with that). Aid will be a very good use of your second level slots.

That is way more effort toward answering this question than I expected; thank you very much and you helped a lot!!

Alright everybody, thank you all for your advice. I really appreciate everyone's input, and you've all given me multiple directions to go with this character. Y'all are awesome!!!

HiveStriker
2019-12-08, 08:44 AM
Well, the examples were given for special shenanigans commanding two people to do something to each other if the DM allows it: "Hug (each other)!" The usual upcast probably doesn't allow that option.
Ha. Ha. HAHAHAHAHA never thought of that XD.
Excellent! Very probably not RAW and possibly not RAI, but I'd certainly houserule it, even if that means opening up more complex deviations (like Suggestion, would you allow Twin Suggestion to have different ones for each?)

Theaitetos
2019-12-08, 12:45 PM
Yeah, I would allow two different suggestions. After all, you can put both in the same sentence: "While it would be very reasonable for you, Mister A, to pay any ransom, it would make more sense for you, Misses B, to hire us to free your daughter from the evil kidnappers."