Recharging power points

[Yogibear41]

I seem to remember a way for psionic characters to recharge their power points. I found the way that uses the incarnum feat, but I thought I remembered a way to do it without incarnum stuff using you and your psi-crystal, but I can't find the method, am I mistaken?

[TheCount]

The other 2 I emember are:
Stone power + the amulet or whatever of power preservation + bestow power
And
Getting a psi-like ability on your psicrystal and whacking it wit a sap with the power point stealing enchantment.
Aside from those, the incarnum trick(s) and something involving bestow power and consumptive field but that's hazy.

[Necroticplague]

Affinity Field+Another Psionic+bestow power also works.

If you found a way to let your psicrystal manifest (maybe there’s a feat I’m missing?), you could ditch Affinity Field and make it work using Share Power instead.

[RSGA]

Affinity Field+Another Psionic+bestow power also works.

If you found a way to let your psicrystal manifest (maybe there’s a feat I’m missing?), you could ditch Affinity Field and make it work using Share Power instead.
There's Hidden Talent if the campaign is high enough Psi.

And if you could Share Soulmeld, there would be fun to be had with Host feats. Although that still works if the GM says that the psicrystal gets feats, just Wild or Hidden Talent and then a Host.

[Zombulian]

The trick you’re thinking of relies on Azure Talent and Psycarnum
Infusion but runs into issues because Azure Talent doesn’t provide Bonus PP, but rather just regular PP, so some say that at the end of the round when Psycarnum Infusion turns off, you lose the extra PP you got, just like a Barbarian whose Con goes back to normal after a rage.

It takes quite a few feats, but having a Psicrystal + Psicrystal Containment + Linked Power + Metapower (Linked Power) + Bestow Power is my favored option. Since Metapsionics actually can stack on themselves and are just limited by your psionic focus, you can manifest a 1st level power and double Link Bestow Power on yourself which nets you 1 pp (-1 power -1 linked metapower -1 linked metapower +2 Bestow power +2 bestow power).

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The sap thing was formulated by me, and it was originally posted here:


Are there any feats that give a creature a psi-like ability or psionic spell-like ability that isn't reliant on power points to fuel? Because I just found a new infinite pp recharge trick.

Sapping Your Psicrystal
Give your psicrystal a pp-less psi-like/psionic spell-like ability. Purchase a sap with the powerleech ability, from Lost Empires of Faerun (+8,000 gp). Now flail harmlessly at your psicrystal with said sap until you're at your full pp total, as creatures without pp totals are not drained of power points, but you DO still receive pp in turn, and it doesn't matter whether the victim receives damage, but whether the weapon hits it.

It was quickly noted that CPsi's [Host] feats would grant a psicrystal psi-like abilities but no power points (which, incidentally, would grant it the [Psionic] subtype, thereby allowing it to take [Psionic] feats without a power point reserve), so you could whack the psicrystal as much as you wanted in order to gain power points without actually draining the psicrystal's limited number of power points.

[gogogome]

Metapower applied to Synchronicity and Linked Power.
Link synchronicity to Bestow Power twice.
1pp + 3pp-2pp + 3pp-2pp = 3pp total spent, 4pp gained.

[Zombulian]

Metapower applied to Synchronicity and Linked Power.
Link synchronicity to Bestow Power twice.
1pp + 3pp-2pp + 3pp-2pp = 3pp total spent, 4pp gained.

I ninja’d you by 12 minutes. Also Synchronicity isn’t a necessary part of the trick, though it is very nice, especially if you also have Psychic Meditation.

[RSGA]

The sap thing was formulated by me, and it was originally posted here:



It was quickly noted that CPsi's [Host] feats would grant a psicrystal psi-like abilities but no power points (which, incidentally, would grant it the [Psionic] subtype, thereby allowing it to take [Psionic] feats without a power point reserve), so you could whack the psicrystal as much as you wanted in order to gain power points without actually draining the psicrystal's limited number of power points.

Note that because Host feats are also considered Psionic feats, you might not actually be able to take them without either a psi-like ability or power points. Notably, Wild Talent and Hidden Talent aren't Psionic feats, but they do make you psionic because you get power points. And on the third hand, which is probably a construct so it can't be turned, there has to be some other way to grant the crystal power points without needing a feat or it's only feat.

This probably involves effects on the level of Bend Reality or Psionic Chirurgery. Actually, now that I think about it, can anyone think of a way to share a Binder's stuff? I'm going to have to crash before I can check that.

(And if you want to check my current work/logic, pages 39, 52, and 67 of Expanded Psionics and 60 of Complete Psionic.)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Note that because Host feats are also considered Psionic feats, you might not actually be able to take them without either a psi-like ability or power points.Um... They're [Host], not [Psionic]. If they were [Psionic] feats, they'd have the [Psionic] tag, and would thus be restricted to [Psionic] characters. [Host] feats may be considered psionic, but they're not [Psionic], and so they make the creature taking them psionic without requiring one to be psionic to take them.


Notably, Wild Talent and Hidden Talent aren't Psionic feats, but they do make you psionic because you get power points. And on the third hand, which is probably a construct so it can't be turned, there has to be some other way to grant the crystal power points without needing a feat or it's only feat.Just as a note, psicrystals do get feats normally, since they're intelligent creatures that have actual HD. They even have one listed in their entry.

[Jack_Simth]

Note that because Host feats are also considered Psionic feats, you might not actually be able to take them without either a psi-like ability or power points. Notably, Wild Talent and Hidden Talent aren't Psionic feats, but they do make you psionic because you get power points. And on the third hand, which is probably a construct so it can't be turned, there has to be some other way to grant the crystal power points without needing a feat or it's only feat.

However, they are self-qualifying once you have them, which means a Psion with a Psicrystal could have the Psicrystal take Wild Talent or Hidden talent at 1st, then a host feat at 3rd, and then at 7th use Psychic Reformation to trade out the Psicrystal's Wild Talent feat - at which point, the Psicrystal still counts as a Psionic creature (it has the Psi-like ability from the [Host] feat), and thus qualifies to have the [Host] feat.

Likewise, A Cerebremancer with Improved Familiar (for any of the construct options) could cast Mental Pinnacle on the familiar to grant it a power point pool long enough for a manifestation of Bend Reality to duplicate Psychic Reformation to trade one of the familiar's feats out for a [Host] feat (which, thereafter, is self-qualifying).


Um... They're [Host], not [Psionic]. If they were [Psionic] feats, they'd have the [Psionic] tag, and would thus be restricted to [Psionic] characters.It's mentioned in the type header for the [Host] feats that they also count as [Psionic] feats. The specific text is "Host feats are also considered psionic feats." - Complete Psionic, page 60, left column.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

However, they are self-qualifying once you have them, which means a Psion with a Psicrystal could have the Psicrystal take Wild Talent or Hidden talent at 1st, then a host feat at 3rd, and then at 7th use Psychic Reformation to trade out the Psicrystal's Wild Talent feat - at which point, the Psicrystal still counts as a Psionic creature (it has the Psi-like ability from the [Host] feat), and thus qualifies to have the [Host] feat.

Likewise, A Cerebremancer with Improved Familiar (for any of the construct options) could cast Mental Pinnacle on the familiar to grant it a power point pool long enough for a manifestation of Bend Reality to duplicate Psychic Reformation to trade one of the familiar's feats out for a [Host] feat (which, thereafter, is self-qualifying).

It's mentioned in the type header for the [Host] feats that they also count as [Psionic] feats. The specific text is "Host feats are also considered psionic feats." - Complete Psionic, page 60, left column.It might consider them [Psionic] feats, but if they were actually [Psionic] feats, they'd be [Psionic] feats, wouldn't they? They probably boost things like Psionic Body, but since they're not actually [Psionic], they don't have the restrictions that [Psionic] feats have.

[Maat Mons]

... But if they're considered psionic feats for purposes of determining who is permitted to take them, then the can't be taken by nonpsionic characters.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Guh. There're reasons why CPsi is considered horribad by damn near everyone. And their little dogs, too.

Psionic feats that aren't [Psionic]. The only real reasons for the [Psionic] tag are to prevent non-psionic creatures from taking them, and for determining how they affect other effects such as [Psionic] bonus feats and stuff like Psionic Body.

So how does a psionic feat differ from a [Psionic] feat, exactly?

[Troacctid]

That's just how the style guide for 3.5 says to write feat descriptors in the body of the text. If you look at the feats section in XPH, you'll notice that the psionic tag never uses square brackets in a paragraph, only in feat headings. The same is true for spell descriptors (look at the cleric's aligned spellcasting ability, for example). It's a consistent style choice across the whole system.

Also, a mindfeeder weapon is cheaper than a powerleech weapon, although it is slower, and your buddy needs to have fast healing rather than psi-like abilities. (A bag of chickens or the Summon Elemental reserve feat would also work I guess.)

[TinyMushroom]

Thought I'd list some extra options if you're trying to get extra pp for your psion.

It's not flat-out recharging pp, but there's also a weapon/shield enchantment in the Magic Item Compendium called Manifester, which allows you to draw a certain amount of pp from an item as long as all pp are used on the same power and it's not combined with other sources of getting extra pp. A flat price of 6k for 3 power points/day on a shield, or 12k for 5 power points/day on a weapon. You can probably do something cheesy with the ammunition pricing rules to get a huge pile of Manifester arrows, but the DM may whack you for attempting that.

More options to make your pool last longer:
-Cognizance crystal, to store pp for the future if you don't use your entire pool every day.
-Torc of power preservation (I recommend the one from magic item compendium), makes all your powers cost 1 less
-Skin of the Psion grants extra pp (REALLY expensive, just buy 2 manifester daggers or something if it's just about the pp)
-Power Storing enchantment allows you to store a power for the future

[MaxiDuRaritry]

At the end of every day, dump all of your remaining power points into the soul crystal power, from Magic of Incarnum. Even better if you manifested quintessence beforehand and store the resulting soul crystals in it. (Possibly in sandwich baggies to make handling them safer.)

[martixy]

Since Metapsionics actually can stack on themselves and are just limited by your psionic focus, [...]

I think I've had this discussion before, but I can't remember.

Source?

P.S. Since we're going into all the BS psionics can do (my favourite thing in D&D), lets not forget to mention Power Link shards. Huzzah! (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=10296.0)

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I think I've had this discussion before, but I can't remember.

Source?Unlike every other meta- feat in the game, metapsionics don't have any limitation on how many times you can apply them, aside from the pp cap and psionic focus.

[martixy]

Unlike every other meta- feat in the game, metapsionics don't have any limitation on how many times you can apply them, aside from the pp cap and psionic focus.

Ah yes, I remember now where the flame war discussion went.
Not to rekindle it, but once again, a negative is hard to prove. I do dearly want stackable metapsionics, but common sense tells me otherwise.

Say... what's the word on multipliers then? Consider widen power.
2x Widen Power = +200%? +400%?

We do have the rule that

When applying multipliers to real-world values (such as weight or distance), normal rules of math apply instead. A creature whose size doubles (thus multiplying its weight by 8) and then is turned to stone (which would multiply its weight by a factor of roughly 3) now weighs about 24 times normal, not 10 times normal. Similarly, a blinded creature attempting to negotiate difficult terrain would count each square as 4 squares (doubling the cost twice, for a total multiplier of ×4), rather than as 3 squares (adding 100% twice).
and we are dealing explicitly with distance here.

But exponential growth rates tend to cause issues...

Btw, enlarge power does not increase PP cost. Infinite range for all your powers... Dimension door across the universe! PsyWar and Nomads get it as a L2 power.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Ah yes, I remember now where the flame war discussion went.
Not to rekindle it, but once again, a negative is hard to prove. I do dearly want stackable metapsionics, but common sense tells me otherwise.I've read everything in the XPH about metapsionics, and there aren't any other limitations anywhere, whereas they're spelled out quite explicitly for other meta- feats.

Adding limitations that aren't in RAW isn't RAW, and though you can houserule it to be so, it's only RAW insofar as it's Rule Zero, which would still be a houserule no matter how you slice it.


Say... what's the word on multipliers then? Consider widen power.
2x Widen Power = +200%? +400%?

We do have the rule that

and we are dealing explicitly with distance here.

But exponential growth rates tend to cause issues...Well, remember that you're still limited in how many pp and foci you can spend, Widen affects Area (and so does not apply to dimension door) and is limited by Range, any pp spent on Widening still count against your pp cap, and if you can manage to mitigate all of these issues (via the ardent's Dominant Ideal ACF and Metapower), you'd have infinite Area and Range whether exponential or not.


Btw, enlarge power does not increase PP cost. Infinite range for all your powers... Dimension door across the universe! PsyWar and Nomads get it as a L2 power.You still have to deal with psionic focus. The only way to remove that entirely is the ardent ACF. And you're effectively dazed for a round, so have fun getting whomped on the endpoint.

And this is already possible with teleport effects in a few levels (or significantly earlier with access to many celestial creatures), so...

[martixy]

I guess when you think about it, it's not any more broken than the other inf loops.

I also completely forgot Dominant Ideal requires level 10, so it's not like ardent is dippable to obtain that benefit.

Outside of TO, psionic focus is decent anti-abuse.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Outside of TO, psionic focus is decent anti-abuse.You typically have one available at a time, two if you spend two feats, or three if you spend eight feats and take a level in psychic weapon master (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d). And you still have to take whatever metapsionic feats you want to use it with, and (possibly) Metapower, as well.

That's...a lot of effort for that kind of payoff, honestly.

Dominant Ideal is much more powerful, but it still can't be gotten prior to level 10, requires 10 levels in ardent (which is really not that great), and eats up practically all of your feats.

So, yeah...