What is meant by “Orzhov Birth” in Guildmaster’s Guide to Ravnica?

[Zhentarim]

Guildmasters guide to ravnica says nobody is born into a guild, but also that only those born into the Orzhov can advance to rank 4 in the guild. Is this another way of saying 2nd generation or more in the guild?

[HappyDaze]

It could simply mean that your birth was attended to by an Orzhov priest (at great cost) and that you (through your parents) have been paying off that debt faithfully since that time. You'll never be able to pay it off entirely, but that means you are valuable to them.

[Sigreid]

Could be like that movie trope where Italians don't have to be in the mob, but only Italians can be "made men" in the mob.

Don't know or care how the mob really works in their ranks.

[OgataiKhan]

I'm not sure about the manual, but canonically the Orzhov are ruled by a small group of noble families, each headed by a patriarch (not necessarily a living one), some of which constitute the Ghost Council of Orzhova.

These families have been part of the Orzhov for generations, and I can only assume that you must be part of one of those families to reach the upper echelons of the guild.

[Reynard]

Nobody is born into Orzohv, much like nobody is born working for a big corrupt multinational bank just because their dad's on the Board of Directors. Maybe you'll do something different with your life and simply enjoy the benefits of such a father, like loans you don't really need to pay off and a nice big safety net so there's no real threat of consequence to your actions, financially at least. But maybe you'll flunk out of some college he was paying for, fall into upper management and bluster your way up the chain to some position that pays you well but doesn't actually do anything.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Guildmasters guide to ravnica says nobody is born into a guild, but also that only those born into the Orzhov can advance to rank 4 in the guild. Is this another way of saying 2nd generation or more in the guild?
It actually says on pg30 That Citizens of Ravnica aren't born into a guild. What that actually means is you still have to earn your spot. Being in a guild isn't like a noble family where you belong simply by virtue of being born.

Now the Orzhov(pg77) function a little different then other guilds, as its hierarchy is built by old wealthy families. If you weren't born to one of those families then you can't attain the highest rank in the guild. Specific trumps general as the old saying went. But this doesn't mean membership is automatic when you grow up either.

[ezekielraiden]

Being born an American citizen does not automatically set you up for being President (nor any other office of the United States).

In order to be President of the United States, you must be born an American citizen.

These two things do not contradict each other, and have exactly the same logical form:
X is not a sufficient condition for Y. X is a necessary condition for Y.

[Zhentarim]

I'm not sure about the manual, but canonically the Orzhov are ruled by a small group of noble families, each headed by a patriarch (not necessarily a living one), some of which constitute the Ghost Council of Orzhova.

These families have been part of the Orzhov for generations, and I can only assume that you must be part of one of those families to reach the upper echelons of the guild.

Does having a parent being adopted in count?

[MeeposFire]

Does having a parent being adopted in count?

If you are a player that is motivation, if you are a DM it is a story hook. Only way to find out is to try but the odds would be against you.

[Finback]

MeeposFire hits the nail on the head. It should be used as the story hook. Oh, you were adopted into a noble family of the Orzhov? Technically, you're family, but it doesn't mean the other families won't look down on your PC as an interloper, making it harder for you to succeed. A PC like that might have to call in the services of the Dimir for blackmail, Gruul for hired muscle to prevent attacks while in public, and extending aid to other guilds that would otherwise get ignored, in order to shore up your own position.

[Witty Username]

the book words it poorly but I think it is getting at parentage doesn't guarantee guild. For example, a daughter of an orzhov priest could be Azorius, Boros, Gruul, or any other guild. The orzhov entry indicates that a character requires the parentage to reach rank 4. This may have some implications that the orzhov are different from the other guilds culturally in terms of family expectations or that they recognize some amount of birthright to particular positions but doesn't change the fact that the CEO's firstborn son can fly off to the Rubblebelt for no determinable reason.

I would recommend as follow-up questions:
How much does parentage matter to characters with other guild affiliations?
How does the orzhov treat 1st generation orzhov?
To what degree does one need to be a member of the orzhov for the purposes of their children?

[Finback]

How much does parentage matter to characters with other guild affiliations?

Probably very little. Izzet are a meritocracy, Selesnya accept everyone equally, Dimir - hey, you may have been the one to kill your parents, Gruul don't care, Boros - again, more a meritocracy, Golgari would be concerned very little (there is more division along racial lines within their guild - gorgons vs elves vs kraul), Simic - who needs parents, we care about your deep ancestry, Azorius wouldn't care much, and Rakdos certainly don't.


How does the orzhov treat 1st generation orzhov?

Considering the first generation of Orzhov is still technically around... ;) (If you mean, someone who joins the guild from outside, probably as little more than hired help, you're not "old money")


To what degree does one need to be a member of the orzhov for the purposes of their children?

I don't understand the phrasing of your question, so I can't respond to this.

[Witty Username]

Sorry, I didn't realize how unclear I was.
1st point I was thinking of orzhov characters by heratige that have joined other guilds, for example does being a karlov override having joined the izzet for some amount of time?
2nd you got it right that I meant outsiders that joined the orzhov, I can see that I was unclear given the ghost council.
3rd, I was thinking of what kind of position does an orzhov member need to hold for their children to be considered born in? I would assume rank 3 would be reasonable at least.
I hope that clarifies things.