Boosting symbionts

[Gwyllgi]

I was wondering if there were ways to get more out of symbionts? Is it possible to summon stronger ones so on so fourth.

[Kalkra]

Well, they all can share spells with you. There was a build somewhere involving spells that grant extra limbs in conjunction with an arbitrary number of parasites and symbionts.

EDIT: Found it. The Nasty Gentleman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19914243&postcount=42)

[Gwyllgi]

What about templating them? Is that a possibility? If they're items could I have them constructed like magic items since that's how they came into existence anyway?

[ShurikVch]

What about templating them? Is that a possibility?Yes, but:
There is the question - how to inflict a template to a symbiont? Because if it's up to DM...
Note: not all of template's benefits would improve a host (depending on specific RAW); if template gives +2 Str(/Dex/Con) - it's symbiont's Str(/Dex/Con), not host's; if template improves AC - it may be symbiont's AC etc

If they're items could I have them constructed like magic items since that's how they came into existence anyway?Symbionts aren't items - they aren't constructed, but born
Pretty much the only sure way to get them is Daelkyr Half-Blood

[Gwyllgi]

what about summoning a templated symbiont via a class feature like the ranger's animal companion?

[Falontani]

By RAW there isn't much to be done with symbionts to make them stronger as a symbiont (read: benefits host). Remember that the symbionts in the game are:
Daellyr Symbionts in the Eberron Campaign Setting and in Magic of Eberron
All the other ones in the Fiend Folio. I'd like to draw attention to the Book of Vile Darkness' fiendish familiar which can be granted by the infernal machine

For some balanced homebrew you can check out this link that does fairly well.
https://sites.google.com/site/eberronpathfinder/conversion-info/magical-items/special-rules/symbionts

[ShurikVch]

what about summoning a templated symbiont via a class feature like the ranger's animal companion?AFAIK, most of those class features are have pretty limited lists of what can or can't be the companion
The single exception I'm aware of is Windrider PrC - it allow literally any creature as a mount, but:
The mount should be bigger than you;
You still need to meet it somehow...Thus, your best bet - after the Daelkyr Half-Blood - is the Gate (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gate.htm) spell (if nobody in the party can cast it yet - via Spellcasting Services (https://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spellcastingAndServices)): not just it able to call in about anything extraplanar, but you may gate in the whole bunch of them from a single cast - because most symbionts have so low HD (unless you want one with Kaiju template :smallbiggrin:)


By RAW there isn't much to be done with symbionts to make them stronger as a symbiont (read: benefits host). Remember that the symbionts in the game are:
Daellyr Symbionts in the Eberron Campaign Setting and in Magic of Eberron
All the other ones in the Fiend Folio.Also, there are:
Backwatcher Carapace (Dragon #308)
Fastbreak Carapace (Dragon #308)
Hardy Carapace (Dragon #308)
Silent Carapace (Dragon #308)
Slippery Carapace (Dragon #308)
Strongarm Carapace (Dragon #308)
Mnemonicus (Dragon #308)
Wriggler (Dragon #308)
Handlinger (Dragon #352)
Airgill (Dungeon #105)
Choke Snake (Dungeon #148)
Kyuss Bloodworm (Bestiary of the Realms, Volume 2 (http://web.archive.org/web/20111011065036/http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/realms_bestiary_v2.pdf.zip))

[Bonzai]

There was a build a while back called something like "A very nasty gentleman", or something like that. It focuses on abusing share spell. There are rules in Eberron that allow for putting treasure values on them so that they can be purchased. Get as many on you as possible.

Then cast something like cloud of knives and share it with them. Each symbiont can free action fire them. There are a few similar spells. Short list I had were;

Cloud of Knives, toothed Tentacle, Dragon breath, kiss of the vampire, mental pinnacle, Lightning ring.

Symbiont list with body slot locations and costs.

Skin: Back watcher carapace DM 308

Back of neck: mnemonicus DM 308

Muscle: Psionic Sinew ff

Neck: mind leech ff

Head: cerebral hood FF

Back: Fiendish familiar ff

Digestion system: gut worm ff

Anywhere on skin: Soul tick FF

No space: Ghostly visiage FF

Armor: living BP MoE

Hand: Claw gauntlet 2k MoE

Variable: Breed leech 2k, MoE

Hand: throwing scarabs 1k MoE

Under arms: spell worm 8k, MoE

Head: storm stalk 4K, MoE

Head: winter cyst 4K, MoE

Skin: Shadow Sibling 8K, MoE

Mouth: Tongue worm 25k, ECS

Lower arms: tentacle whip 8k ECS

Hope this helps!

[Gwyllgi]

What about making them zombies and skeletons then spell stitching them. If I replace the shadow sibling with a carapace then in theory I could cover myself entirely with them. I think spell stitching relies on the wis of the stichee correct?

[ShurikVch]

What about making them zombies and skeletons then spell stitching them. If I replace the shadow sibling with a carapace then in theory I could cover myself entirely with them. I think spell stitching relies on the wis of the stichee correct?Both Skeleton and Zombie are lose all their SA and most of SQ - thus, couldn't be symbionts anymore
In general - any template which makes symbiont a non-Living creature is a bad idea

Among the templates which can be applied to symbionts:
Celestial, Fiendish, Axiomatic, or Anarchic Creature (https://archive.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011020a)
Fire-Souled Creature (Dragon #358) - via the Brotherhood of the Burning Heart
Pseudonatural Creature: usage of Green Rapture drug (Dragon #358)
Sanctified Creature (Book of Exalted Deeds) - by Sanctify the Wicked spell
Tarterian Creature (The Shackled City Adventure Path) - pact with a Demodand
Voidmind Creature (Monster Manual III)

[Thurbane]

In addition to what has been mentioned, this thread is a good resource: Fleshwarping: A List of Grafts, Symbionts, and Related Goodies (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?190350)


What about making them zombies and skeletons then spell stitching them. If I replace the shadow sibling with a carapace then in theory I could cover myself entirely with them. I think spell stitching relies on the wis of the stichee correct?

Bone Creature or Corpse Creature (BoVD) would be better options if you want to make them undead.

[Gwyllgi]

I forgot about bone and corpse creatures, which is funny because I researched the possibility using blood hulks as a base template as well. The only thing stopping me now is the low wisdom score of symbionts. If I had a answer to that they could act as bonus spells via the spellstitched template. The only other possibility is using possession.
Functionally I think it would work like this.
1. Summon high level fiend of possession with class levels I want.
2. Necrotic Tumor him into submission and make him possess a equally necrotic tumored symbiont.
3. Use it to cast his spells and those spell stitched onto him.

That or he would auto win the fort save IDK.

[Gwyllgi]

Okay for the sake of people who may come here in the future the best option for using resurrected symbionts as spell storage via spell stitching is unironically the blood fiend. Blood fiends are considered demons and thus eligible for the +2 CR possession ability as described in the BoVD, furthermore they possess a measly +4 fort save, 20 Wis, and are Undead. This means that not only can they presumably be Necrotic Tumored, but controlled. In addition they have a high enough Wis that upon possession of a undead spellstitched symbiont they may cast the highest level spells with them. They also have a max HD of 36 making them excellent for possessing symbionts that act as weapons as they would in addition to providing bonus spells via spell stitching, provide a maximum of 72,000 GP worth of enchantments upon them. All the while being completely enslaved, assuming I'm not forgetting some mechanic.