Make my Storm Herald actually good

[BigOunce]

How do I define good?

Not by minmaxing every tiny amount of mechanical performance, in this particular case. I'd like to be comparable with a table of competent yet not perfected single class builds - ie I'm looking for "good" rather than "great" - but more importantly double down on that delicious "getting so angry you call down lightning from above" flavour.

One of my table is rolling a half-elf Storm Sorcerer with a two level dip in Tempest Cleric. I've agreed to play the twin sibling, if I can come up with something that's not dead weight and is fun and flavoursome. The other character is intentionally light on details at the moment, so there's room for customisation.

The campaign starts at level 3, and is unlikely to go beyond level 10-12. Point buy, all official material is fine, Unearthed Arcana is a maybe.

My core problem is with how little synergises with rage. Grabbing Booming Blade as a racial trait is easy flavour and effectiveness, yet useless when raging, which means getting to Storm Herald 5 becomes a priority. Tempest Cleric provides great flavour and some power when not raging, but any significant dip delays my rage progression... It feels like I'm building two characters, one for rage and one for not-rage, and so neither is any good.

Pure Storm Herald seems to be mechanically stronger but weaker in flavour, as the rage aura is the only storm-like ability I'd get during the campaign (Storm Soul is kinda eh). Any ideas?

And if that's a lost cause, any ideas for a fun, flavoursome build that is distinct from yet complimentary to my friend's Tempest Sorcerer character?

[Theaitetos]

I'm not quite sure what exactly you're asking here. Your friend plays the Storm Sorcerer X / Tempest Cleric 2 half-elf, right? Are you looking for a barbarian build that complements the storm theme of your friend? Because a half-elf might not be a good racial choice for a barbarian.

If you're looking for a melee character half-elf, a paladin might be a better choice than barbarian, as it synergizes well with your high CHA, or a Hexblade warlock.

If you're looking for something very similar thematically to your twin, you could try the Sea Sorcerer from the Unearthed Arcana. If you need to have the same stats as your twin (high CHA and WIS), a Land Druid (Arctic, Mountain) + Warlock might work.

[BigOunce]

I'm not quite sure what exactly you're asking here. Your friend plays the Storm Sorcerer X / Tempest Cleric 2 half-elf, right? Are you looking for a barbarian build that complements the storm theme of your friend? Because a half-elf might not be a good racial choice for a barbarian.

If you're looking for a melee character half-elf, a paladin might be a better choice than barbarian, as it synergizes well with your high CHA, or a Hexblade warlock.

If you're looking for something very similar thematically to your twin, you could try the Sea Sorcerer from the Unearthed Arcana. If you need to have the same stats as your twin (high CHA and WIS), a Land Druid (Arctic, Mountain) + Warlock might work.

Sorry about that, I'd typed up my post in the early hours of the morning. Looking back, it was fairly incoherent.

I'm after a character build/concept which is thematically similar to the twin which my friend will be playing - thunder, lightning, wind and storms, all that jazz - and yet is not a direct clone of said character. The twin will be a spellslinger, so I'd want to find a different niche to fill in our party.

My first thought was to go with a martial character, and a Storm Herald seemed like a good fit. I'm disappointed with it however, as aside from the aura you get at level 3, the Storm Herald is quite light on flavourful yet effective features.

And I'm aware that half-elf is not a great racial choice for a barbarian; my hands are tied on that front.

So I have two questions really:

1) Is there a multiclass build which compliments at least 3 levels of Storm Herald Barbarian, which can add to the flavour while still adding mechanical effectiveness?

2) If not, do you have any recommendations for a non-spellslinger build which is rich in that flavour?

[Man on Fire]

Ask the other player how he plans to progress. If they go full Sorcerer, you go Tempest Cleric, if they go Cleric, you go with Sorcerer.

Instead of Barbarian you can also use Fighter. Blue Draconic Sorcerer 1/Fighter 2 and then full Tempest Cleric?

[Tanarii]

Probably best off to tell the other player: look this works best if you let me play a straight Tempest Cleric and you just focus on a pure Storm Sorcerer.

[JakOfAllTirades]

You're REALLY getting the short end of the stick here. Your friend is playing two caster classes which synergize well thematically, and work well with the race in question.

Meanwhile, you've got one of the more lackluster martials, no racial synergy, and I'm not sure there's an easy way to fix that.

If you're serious about playing a lightning/thunder themed martial character, try Eldritch Knight w/Booming Blade. And get Chromatic Orb so you can toss some hefty 3d8 balls of lightning at your enemies. Also, half-elf isn't a terrible racial pick for the EK.

[ThatoneGuy84]

Go swashbuckler Rouge,
Take a Dip that nets you Booming blade
Use hit and run tactics with booming blade
Get a use from the Cha boost
Do some sort of pirate background
Maybe ask your DM to reflavor green flame blade to some lightning spell that jumps to second target.

Seeing that your campaign will be X levels.
I suggest 3 level sorc (I would dragon sorc myself for this but storm could work) and use quicken to get 2 x booming blades/1 with sneak attack

[Theaitetos]

1) Is there a multiclass build which compliments at least 3 levels of Storm Herald Barbarian, which can add to the flavour while still adding mechanical effectiveness?

Well, multiclassing with Barbarian means you need at least 13 STR and unless the other class uses this stat as well, you would go MAD and have a weak build. Paladin & Fighter are the only classes that make use of the STR of the barbarian, however both classes are usually heavily armored, rendering the Unarmored Defense of the barbarian obsolete. Both of those classes have little way of fitting thematically, although you could try an Oath of the Ancients Paladin (more nature than lightning though) who can simply use spell slots to smite while raging.

A combination of Barbarian & Druid can work out quite well, since you can Wildshape while raging, making use of the stats & feats of the barbarian. However, half-elf is a weak choice for such a build.



2) If not, do you have any recommendations for a non-spellslinger build which is rich in that flavour?

When dropping the Barbarian, there are several good options. The CHA stat of the half-elf would suggest you try a class that makes use of that, like a Paladin, a Warlock, or a Bard (or another Sorcerer). Since you don't want to focus on casting spells, the Paladin and Warlock are the best options, with the Paladin being weakest in terms of the lightning theme.

I think you could have fun playing a melee/blade Hexblade warlock. It's a strong melee build, not focused on spellcasting – so you can always concentrate on the Hex spell – and you can fit it optically to lightning/thunder. Remember that you can design a Hexblade patron somewhat, it could be any (somewhat powerful) sentient weapon; a half-elf could choose a Moonblade for example, or you can design your own lightning-themed weapon as patron.

Ask your DM to adapt the Hexblade expanded spell list a little to include Thunderous Smite instead of Branding Smite, Thunderwave instead of Wrathful Smite, and similarly themed spells. You have access to Booming Blade, Thunder Step, … as a warlock, and maybe your DM allows you other spells as Mystic Arcanum (e.g. Storm of Vengeance) at higher levels.

Then adapt some Eldritch Invocations thematically without changing their mechanics, for example:
Armor of Hexes works by granting you lightning fast reflexes to evade attacks.
Relentless Hex works by moving you fast like a ball of lightning next to your enemy.
Thirsting Blade works by making your weapon's echo do the second attack.
Maddening Hex or Lifedrinker may be changed to thunder or lightning damage (from psychic & necrotic) if your DM allows it.
Mire the Mind works by making everyone else in comparison lightning fast – or maybe your DM allows you to have Haste with the invocation instead of Slow.

[CTurbo]

As I see it, you could go in two ways. You could either be a Storm Herald with a small dip in Storm Sorcerer, or a Storm Herald with a small dip in Tempest Cleric. As you're locked in to being a Half-Elf, I think it'd be easier/better to take a couple levels of Storm Sorcerer. From a story standpoint, it makes more sense. You could say that both you and your brother have the same innate Sorcerer powers. Of course Tempest Cleric still fits from a story standpoint too. You could just say that you and your brother worship the same (Tempest) god and were raised in the same church or whatnot.



Option #1a.... single level Storm Sorcerer dip but stay primarily Barb

Half-Elf 16 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 10 Wis, 14 Cha

Grab 4 thematic cantrips like Lightning Lure, Shocking Grasp, Thunderclap, Gust, etc... and two thematic spells like Chromatic Orb(Lightning), Witchbolt, or Thunderwave

Wear Medium Armor and max Str. Hit things with weapons most of the time. Don't worry about not being able to cast while raging because you're not always going to be raging.

Option #1b..... 5 or 6 levels of Barb, but then mostly Storm Sorcerer

Same stats as above, but this time you max Cha and leave Str at 16. This time you want a little more utility in your repertoire




Option #2a..... Small Tempest Cleric dip (1 to 3 levels) but stay mostly Barb.

The Half-Elf's Cha bonus is wasted but you still get two floating +1s to add where you need them. Either way with point buy, your stats are going to suffer a bit somewhere.

You could start 16 Str, 12 Dex, 14 Con, 8 Int, 15 Wis, and 10 Cha and then tale Res(Wis) to round your Wis up to 16. Max Str from there. What you would need to figure out is how many levels of Cleric to take. 1 level gets you spells(Thunderwave and Fog Cloud), Wrath of the Storm, and Heavy Armor proficiency although it does not mesh with rage. Technically you could carry around some Plate to put on when you're out of rages though. 2 levels gets you the ability to maximize Thunder or Lightning spell once per short rest. 3 levels gets you more spells most importantly, Shatter although Gust of Wind is thematic too.

Option #2b..... 5 or 6 levels of Barb, but stay mostly Temptest Cleric.

Stats stay the same but you prioritize Wis over Str. You still take Res(Wis) because you want Con and Wis saves no matter what. If you start Cleric, just take Res(Con) instead. Tempest Clerics already do just fine in melee so the option of raging a couple times a day is just gravy. When not raging, feel free to concentrate on Bless or Spirit Guardians while tossing out maximized blasts.

[Sherlockpwns]

I've been kicking around the self-aoe blast character in another thread. I don't quite see why this has to be a storm herald, if the goal is just busting out some thunder and lightning and a front line to compliment your buddy. I'd say just go pure tempest cleric but focus on a different set of spells and gear. Focus on thunderwave and reflavor word of radiance to word of thunder (it's literally the same spell as thunderclap anyway) and use something like shield of faith and heavy armor + shield while your brother stays behind you tossing out long range blasts and buffs like bless.

Honestly I think it's both more thematic and the tempest can be as melee as a barbarian. You can play up how he abandoned his faith and whatnot, lol.

Plus you'll love being able to massively upcast and maximize a thunderwave twice per short rest. It's insane damage.

[J-H]

How about going Lore Bard? Bard gets some storm-themed spells, and you have the class feature to pick up spells you'd like to add and are missing.

[saucerhead]

I think Cturbo has laid out the best options if you are sticking with half-elf and storm herald.

You could have barb2/cleric1 and when you reckless attack, giving your opponent advantage to hit you back, your wrath of storms reaction zaps him for 2d6.

If you have the option of taking something other than barbarian, I would also suggest going eldritch knight and just flavouring everything to thunder and lightning. Booming Blade, etc. Unfortunately, as you are already aware storm herald just ain't great.

[Anderlith]

Go Storm Herald 3 & the rest Storm Sorcerer. Don’t worry so much about your lack of rage features. Revel in you Unarmed Defense & martial prowess. It’s still competitive enough. Pretend your Sorcerer Spells are akin to your rage

[Theaitetos]

How does Eldritch Knight (STR, INT) stand up to a Hexblade Warlock (CHA) here? Half-elfs get CHA+2, which is totally wasted on Eldritch Knight and on Tempest Cleric (WIS).

The Warlock also allows easy dips into Bard or Sorcerer if need be. As I mentioned before, the Sea Sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana is a great choice for such a dip due to the Curse of the Sea, that triggers on lightning & cold damage & forced movement.

[nickl_2000]

How bad is storm herald really?

I mean, are we talking Purple Dragon Knight or are we talking Arcane Archer?

[Sherlockpwns]

How does Eldritch Knight (STR, INT) stand up to a Hexblade Warlock (CHA) here? Half-elfs get CHA+2, which is totally wasted on Eldritch Knight and on Tempest Cleric (WIS).

The Warlock also allows easy dips into Bard or Sorcerer if need be. As I mentioned before, the Sea Sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana is a great choice for such a dip due to the Curse of the Sea, that triggers on lightning & cold damage & forced movement.

I don't think the +2 cha is 'wasted' just because you don't use it for spellcasting or hitting things with sticks. At the end of the day, at worst you're at -1 to hit/dmg or -1 spell DC. It's not like the end of the world.

I don't see how the Hexblade Warlock fits the description of a thunder and lightning based front-line character. If you ask me which is stronger from the meta-gaming standpoint... I think they're about equal. Hex probably has more burst damage potential as far as "spend everything in a single fight!" and probably less burst for a single round of combat and less if you are spreading resources across 3+ fights.

Anyway, yeah, EK could do it with Booming Blade, but honestly I don't think it brings as much to the table as Tempest or some kind of multiclass sorcerer-barbarian. I just can't see taking Barbarian to only 3. If you're going to 3 you should probably get to 5 for extra attack. If you get to 5.... well, 1 more level and you can get some extra resistances to damage or multi out.

My problem with multiclassing from Barbarian to a spellcaster isn't the inability to cast while raging, its that thunder / lightning spells are basically all damage spells. If we were talking about taking a class because it gives you some self-buffs or something (Bless, shield of faith, haste, etc) that is one thing, but as the OP says the game is only going to like level 10. A Barb 8 / Tempest 2 ... the tempest brings some spells in, but none of them will be practical to use. You can thunderwave for 4d8 one time. In exchange you give up Brutal Crit and +1 dmg while raging (and the kinda crappy 10th level Herald ability). A single level of sorcerer may get you some cool cantrips, but you'll hardly ever use them. Maybe Lightning Lure if you keep ending up a few squares away from your intended target... and just happen to not be raging?

I dunno, lame as it is, I think staying pure Storm Herald is better than splashing in some class that gets you some thematic bonus that you'll never practically use.

[No1ofIntrst]

Why not just go straight tempest cleric (Maybe with a couple of levels of fighter for GFB and other fun stuff). You play front line, being more like a paladin in mechanics (Depending on whether your GM lets you take Polearm Master, that can also help the build). With Spirit Guardians, Spiritual Weapon, and GFB you can do quite a bit of damage up close, while not sacrificing any of the storm flavour

[dragoeniex]

You gave your definition for a "good" build and said you weren't looking for something min-maxed-- more something to keep pace with a moderately competent group. You like Storm Herald? Go Storm Herald! It's serviceable, and it's been getting talked down more than it deserves here.

One of our groups has a guy playing the Sea (re: lightning) variant now, and he does just fine. Loves using his bonus action to zap a target each combat turn and finding excuses to go be useful with his underwater breathing/swim speed out of combat. Also constantly reminds all the teammates they've got resistance to lightning while they're close to him, since the powers of the storm will shield them! (He's level 10.)

Barbarians are every definition of the word "solid" regardless of subclass. Storm Herald isn't as punchy as some of the others, but it's definitely not the worst either.

Wanting to throw some extra punch into your zaps? Er... zaps into your punch? Both? Regardless: grab a feat!

Sentinel and Mage Slayer could both be fun. Sentinel can easily be flavored as an electric jolt running down your arm and into enemies' soft, conductive bodies when they try to turn their backs on you. Momentary paralysis as their nervous system gets a jolt. Mage Slayer is some of the same-- disruptive power crackling around you, perhaps feeding off the magic energy around your foe. It also makes fun twin flavor as a perk you may have gained from sparring with your bro.

Make sure rages are described with storm-like effects. Maybe a bolt of lightning hits you out of nowhere, and you transform from a slender half-elf into a bulked-out hero ala Shazaam?

Half-elves are actually pretty solid, in terms of race. You get to plug +1 in both strength and con, and you get that bonus charisma to match your bro a bit. He may have trained it with more focus, but you've both got some innate charm. And you're also more aware of charm-based spells and less likely to fall prey to them.

You've got a solid character here already, but if you want icing on the cake, a couple of item ideas:

Shield of Missile Attraction - pull projectiles toward you ala Magneto to protect your friends. Slippers of Spider Climbing - boots with soles you focus your electricity through to stick to walls and ceilings with magnetism or super static cling. Wand of Lightning Bolts - duh. Cube of Force - force field you generate protectively to get the group through dangerous patches. Cape of the Mountebank - appear in another spot with a crack of lightning, covered lightly by a dissipating storm cloud. Hammer of Thunderbolts - if big toys start being given out late game. Any weapon that deals additional damage - request it be flavored to lightning.

And so on.

[Evaar]

I just want to jump in and say there’s no reason a half elf can’t have a human twin.

One parent is a half elf, one is human. Or both are half elves. If you’re not identical, and I assume you aren’t since you’re not both storm sorcerers, you could just not end up with sufficient elven heritage to qualify for half elf. So lucky for you, variant human is great for everything.

You can also look at Eldritch Knight and go for storm themed spells. It doesn’t take a lot of reflavoring to get some good options out of it. Shield can be a wall of deflecting wind, for example. You can execute this concept and still have a powerful character. Warding Wind is already an excellent spell for an EK.

[Amechra]

How bad is storm herald really?

I mean, are we talking Purple Dragon Knight or are we talking Arcane Archer?

Arcane Archer, I guess? If the Aura's radius scaled as you gained levels, it'd be a really good subclass. Or, at least, Tundra Heralds would be.

[Lockwolfe]

If you can, I'd just use the Unearthed Arcana version, back when it was good.

[Galithar]

Okay, so I didn't read the whole thread, so someone might have posted similar, but here's my idea.

Barbarian 3 for Storm Herald/Paladin X

My reasons:
1. Make use of that Charisma from half-elf by making it a secondary stat.
2. You can use Medium armor and a shield for AC. Minimizing the Dex needed as much as possible. 12 will suffice, 14 if you can manage.
3. You can't cast while raging. We want to be raging, right? Paladins can smite while raging. You're using a spell slot, but it's not a spell. Bonus points if your DM let's you deal Thunder or Lightning damage instead of Radiant. But even if they don't you can fluff it as 'radiant lightning' or something similar to have the visual flair even if the damage type isn't there.
4. I just like Paladins and it's one of the few Barbarian classes that can add to the Storm theme with just a little fluff that synergize. Reckless attack to make sure that Smite connects!!

[SpawnOfMorbo]

How do I define good?

Not by minmaxing every tiny amount of mechanical performance, in this particular case. I'd like to be comparable with a table of competent yet not perfected single class builds - ie I'm looking for "good" rather than "great" - but more importantly double down on that delicious "getting so angry you call down lightning from above" flavour.

One of my table is rolling a half-elf Storm Sorcerer with a two level dip in Tempest Cleric. I've agreed to play the twin sibling, if I can come up with something that's not dead weight and is fun and flavoursome. The other character is intentionally light on details at the moment, so there's room for customisation.

The campaign starts at level 3, and is unlikely to go beyond level 10-12. Point buy, all official material is fine, Unearthed Arcana is a maybe.

My core problem is with how little synergises with rage. Grabbing Booming Blade as a racial trait is easy flavour and effectiveness, yet useless when raging, which means getting to Storm Herald 5 becomes a priority. Tempest Cleric provides great flavour and some power when not raging, but any significant dip delays my rage progression... It feels like I'm building two characters, one for rage and one for not-rage, and so neither is any good.

Pure Storm Herald seems to be mechanically stronger but weaker in flavour, as the rage aura is the only storm-like ability I'd get during the campaign (Storm Soul is kinda eh). Any ideas?

And if that's a lost cause, any ideas for a fun, flavoursome build that is distinct from yet complimentary to my friend's Tempest Sorcerer character?

Take straight class, drop dex (barbarian don't need dex, you want to be a target and your HP + Rage will protect you from a lot), boost cha and grab Actor. Thanks to your class and the actor feat, you are now all around competent in every area of the game. Grab Dungeon Delver for some fun.

[Theaitetos]

2. You can use Medium armor and a shield for AC. Minimizing the Dex needed as much as possible. 12 will suffice, 14 if you can manage.

If you start 1st level with Paladin, you even get heavy armor and can leave DEX at 8 or 10. Only difference is 2HP and the saving throws: Barbarian has STR+CON, Paladin has WIS+CHA. Rage grants advantage on STR saving throws.

[Teaguethebean]

I would agree with the barbarian druid multiclass. As when wild shaped and raging you can rarely make use of the lightning attack as you will be sitting with a high con while shaped and rarely will you have a use of your bonus action while shaped and raging.

[Galithar]

If you start 1st level with Paladin, you even get heavy armor and can leave DEX at 8 or 10. Only difference is 2HP and the saving throws: Barbarian has STR+CON, Paladin has WIS+CHA. Rage grants advantage on STR saving throws.

You don't want Heavy Armor for this. That defeats the purpose of finding a synergy with Rage because Heavy Armor will negate it. You have to be in Medium Armor or less for most Barbarian features.

[Theaitetos]

You don't want Heavy Armor for this. That defeats the purpose of finding a synergy with Rage because Heavy Armor will negate it. You have to be in Medium Armor or less for most Barbarian features.

Yeah, but you only take 3 levels in Barbarian in your proposed build, so heavy armor only affects the 3 rages per long rest, and not a single other barbarian feature. You can switch to medium armor if you plan to rage.

[Pufferwockey]

Something I've been thinking of trying is Storm sorcerer/eldtrich knight with the stats prioritized Str, Cha, Con, Dex; Int and wis in the last two slots to make someone who zips around the battle smacking people with a great sword, or sword and board and blasting with spells and sorcerer abilities. Both of you having some levels of storm sorcerer would be thematically appropriate since it's a bloodline thing, although I also like the flavour of you being a storm herald barbarian. It's actually the only case for which I like that barbarian's flavour.

My plan was to go heavier in to sorcerer levels but If you wanted to lean heavier on EK knight than sorcerer, just check what spells you can grab that don' punish you for the lower int. In any case you're likely gonna end up with spell slots higher than the spells you can learn so that might be a recharge of your sorcery points, depending on your max, or just an upcast spell of some kind.

Can't promise anything effectiveness wise, but could be a lot of fun and a half-elf's ability scores would be helpful.

EDIT: gotta pick up warcaster at level 4 in one of your classes. Cast sword in hand and never fail concentration, regardless which class you took first.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

If you start 1st level with Paladin, you even get heavy armor and can leave DEX at 8 or 10. Only difference is 2HP and the saving throws: Barbarian has STR+CON, Paladin has WIS+CHA. Rage grants advantage on STR saving throws.

First off, yeah heavy armor is bad for a barbarian.

Secondly, playing a low AC Barbarian is actually a better idea than a low AC. You want enemies to attack you and being an easier target helps with that. Also, duebto reckless attack, the chances of you getting hit or crit'ed are higher than normal anyways so you might as well put those ability points in other areas to get some mileage out of then.

So, if MC is a must... Rogue (AT) is a good way (if you don't want to drop Dex). Fluffing the spells a bit differently goes a long way.

[Theaitetos]

First off, yeah heavy armor is bad for a barbarian.

But not bad for a lvl3 barbarian.


Secondly, playing a low AC Barbarian is actually a better idea than a low AC. You want enemies to attack you and being an easier target helps with that.

You want enemies to attack you, but you don't want them to hit you.

A half-elf barbarian paladin has his stats stretched very thin already (needs high STR & CHA & CON), so being able to dump DEX is a good way to boost other stats. Medium armor should get at least 14 DEX to get the +2 AC modifier. Heavy armor can stay as low as DEX 8 with no penalty. With point-buy you have these 2 options:

Medium Armor: STR 15+1 – DEX 14 – CON 14+1 – INT 8 – WIS 8 – CHA 12+2
/ Heavy Armor: STR 15+1 – DEX 08 – CON 15+1 – INT 8 – WIS 8 – CHA 15+2

The medium armor build really saps the CHA score and even lowers the CON (or STR) score. It will weaken all the features of your main class – Paladin – since they are CHA dependent. And you will either weaken your attacks (STR), your Storm Herald aura (CON), or lose another point of AC (decrease DEX).

I would really focus on the Paladin, since it's your main class, while you take just 3 levels of Barbarian in this build.

[Teaguethebean]

But not bad for a lvl3 barbarian.

The medium armor build really saps the CHA score and even lowers the CON (or STR) score. It will weaken all the features of your main class – Paladin – since they are CHA dependent. And you will either weaken your attacks (STR), your Storm Herald aura (CON), or lose another point of AC (decrease DEX).

I would really focus on the Paladin, since it's your main class, while you take just 3 levels of Barbarian in this build.

You do realize you can't rage while in heavy armor right? If you can't rage you can't use your lightning strike. The entire idea of using heavy armor completely spits in the eye of taking barb levels to begin with and makes the 3rd barb level literally useless.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

But not bad for a lvl3 barbarian.



You want enemies to attack you, but you don't want them to hit you.

A half-elf barbarian paladin has his stats stretched very thin already (needs high STR & CHA & CON), so being able to dump DEX is a good way to boost other stats. Medium armor should get at least 14 DEX to get the +2 AC modifier. Heavy armor can stay as low as DEX 8 with no penalty. With point-buy you have these 2 options:

Medium Armor: STR 15+1 – DEX 14 – CON 14+1 – INT 8 – WIS 8 – CHA 12+2
/ Heavy Armor: STR 15+1 – DEX 08 – CON 15+1 – INT 8 – WIS 8 – CHA 15+2

The medium armor build really saps the CHA score and even lowers the CON (or STR) score. It will weaken all the features of your main class – Paladin – since they are CHA dependent. And you will either weaken your attacks (STR), your Storm Herald aura (CON), or lose another point of AC (decrease DEX).

I would really focus on the Paladin, since it's your main class, while you take just 3 levels of Barbarian in this build.

Heavy armor takes away rage + rage abilities. It's bad for every barbarian of every level. You need to read the 5e Barbarian.

12 Dex, MAX, unless you plan to multiclass. You don't need a high AC as a barbarian as you have hihi HP and things are typically going to hit you antways thanks to reckless attack.

You only need a 14 Cha for Actor to be amazing. Str 16, good Con, good wis and cha.

Ability Scores (half orc barbarian I play): 16, 12, 14, 8, 12, 14. Total beast.

[Theaitetos]

You do keep in mind that we're still talking about a half-elf Barbarian (Storm Herald) 3 / Paladin X character, right?

You can switch to your medium armor when you want to do your rages (3 of them per long rest, that is). If you have just 3 encounters every day, fine, if not, it's probably a good idea to keep a higher AC.

[sophontteks]

Are you married to storm herald?

If not, Imo the storm herald only synergizes well by name. I don't think it plays very much into the theme. Certainly the extremely poor scaling of the storm heralds abilities plays into this a lot. I think the Eldritch Knight might just fit in better. They focus on evocation magic, and I think it might get the "stormy" theme a bit better.

If you are married to storm herald. The base class is good enough to be fine. Honestly, just ask the DM if he can maybe give the subclass a little nudge. Its a great idea, but the abilities might as well not exist in most cases.

EDIT: I decided to call the subclass storm tempests for no good reason.

[Tanarii]

You can switch to your medium armor when you want to do your rages (3 of them per long rest, that is). If you have just 3 encounters every day, fine, if not, it's probably a good idea to keep a higher AC.Switching armor takes a long time. It not something you do as an action in the firt round. (And even then that'd be a very high cost to pay).

If you have 6 encounters per day, you're still better off raging in 3 of them and not in 3 others, all in Medium armor, after the level investment of 3 levels of Barbarian. Otherwise those levels are better used in a different class. You're talking about 3 dead weight levels.

[Theaitetos]

If you have 6 encounters per day, you're still better off raging in 3 of them and not in 3 others, all in Medium armor, after the level investment of 3 levels of Barbarian. Otherwise those levels are better used in a different class. You're talking about 3 dead weight levels.

Why not switch to heavy armor after those 3 rages?

[Clone]

If you want to go down the line of Barbarian and just want the flavour of being a storm pc, I'd reflavour a Scourge Aasimar and play a Zealot Barbarian. Flavour the extra Zealot damage as you covering your weapon in divine lightning (or ask the DM to change the damage type, but up to you) and the revive feature would be like a constant defibrillator running through your system, ready to zip you up. The Aasimar part is lightning constantly zapping off of your body in a berserk Thor-esq fashion with extreme bursts on the hit each turn.

While I understand wanting the actual lightning/ thunder damage but simply flavouring the abilities can give the same impact you want from this character. Might not be helpful but its another way of looking at it.

[Teaguethebean]

Why not switch to heavy armor after those 3 rages?

I feel a lot of people would find that really strange from a flavor perspective.
"Groshnar why are you putting on the plate mail that you wouldn't wear before?"
"I am out of rages."
"Your out of what?"

[Theaitetos]

Well, the Rule of Cool would allow a Barbarian in Plate Armor (heavy) to simply rip off a piece of his armor resulting in Half-Plate Armor (medium), when beginning to rage – Hulk Hoganson is his name. :smallcool:

[Man_Over_Game]

It'll require DM fiat, but one solution you could do is ask your DM to substitute Dexterity for your Barbarian features for Strength.

This doesn't do much other than allow your Unarmored Defense to scale from Strength + Constitution. But you'd still use Dexterity if you used Medium Armor.

From the Prestige Options mechanic (in my signature):

Force of Nature
You can take the Barbarian, using your Strength in place of Dexterity for your Barbarian features.
Requirement: The only Barbarian subclass available to you is the Path of the Storm Herald. Additionally, at least half of your character levels (rounded up) must be in Barbarian.
[Example: A warrior returns from the wilds, changed. His body contains the literal essence of a storm, and only his indomitable physicality kept it contained.]
I figured that since the Storm Herald has to focus on maximizing Constitution for the sake of their Saving Throws, and the fact that the Herald would not likely consider using a Bonus Action attack with a weapon, it is rather hard to cheese out spammed high damage Strength attacks if Dex was no longer needed. A Barbarian could choose to do something like GWM and max out Strength for high damage, but then they'd run into a problem where their subclass doesn't provide them anything for their playstyle. They'd have to invest heavily in both Strength and Constitution stats to get the most out of the subclass features, which becomes its own sort of MADness.
Additionally, Storm Herald is notoriously bad (I mean, 2 damage per round? Come on). You're forced to invest into Barbarian for this Option, so you can't just cheat and get a Strength+Constitution version of Unarmored Defense for some weird Cavalier build while ignoring Barbarian. This is still a buff to Storm Herald, just not as big of a deal as you might initially think.

It'd mean that you could focus on 2 stats, dumping Dex, and have your damage/AC/HP all scale with your stats. This also works around the issue that very few feats are beneficial to the Storm Herald, due to the fact that most feats that are applicable would tie up your Bonus Action (and your Bonus Action is used for your primary feature).

[da newt]

I guess you could make RAGE like the Hulk's transformation - when you swell up all your plate armor falls off except the breast plate (MED armor) ... It feels really cheesy to me though.

For the OP - in my opinion the Storm Herald Barb isn't a great choice for a MC. I'd go Fighter or Paladin primary, dip cleric or warlock or sorcerer for more lightning theme. Blue Draconic Sorcerer would be great, reflavor EB as lightning, etc. Booming Blade or Smite lightning/thunder, etc.

[Evaar]

Okay here's what you do. You go Hexblade. You take Devil's Sight. You take all kinds of shadow/darkness abilities. You let the Storm Sorcerer do Storm Sorcerer things and you don't step on his toes. You introduce yourselves as Dark & Stormy.

[Theaitetos]

You introduce yourselves as Dark & Stormy.

It's Christmas time, so I'd suggest Blitz & Donner. :smallwink:

[Witty Username]

Theme wise you could go sea storm herald as a straight barbarian and be fine. You will still hit stuff just fine.
The big question is do you want to play a storm herald because of mechanics or theme? If mechanics then you are fairly good. If not, is there another class or subclass that can fit the theme that you like the mechanics of better.

If you want barbarian a eagle totem barbarian or a zealot barbarian(maybe ask your dm to deal lightning damage instead of radiant/necrotic) could fit. Even Tundra storm herald could fit the theme, your sorcerer friend is the sky and you are the ocean and together you are the storm.

alternatively, if you want a sorcerer multi class, paladin/sorcerer is what you are looking for it sounds like.

[BigOunce]

Thanks for the replies. Apologies for not replying, but I've read all the suggestions and there's some great potential here.

My main goal is the storm flavour, and to avoid being a spellslinger. For that reason I'm now leaning heavily towards a Tempest Cleric with Booming Blade, thanks to the half high elf cantrip. That basic action of "hit with weapon and do thunder damage" is a better cornerstone than the bonus action lightning of the Storm Herald, and keeps far more options open.

So I think I'll go Tempest Cleric, and lean towards utility/movement spells over raw blasting.

The main dilemma then is whether to go pure Tempest Cleric, and pick up bonus thunder damage with each hit at level 8, or multiclass into Sorcerer and do Thunder Step quickened plus Booming Blade memes. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Now that I've put some thoughts down in writing, I'm actually really warming to the idea of both twins having the exact same class build, yet very different playstyles.

Although Tempest Cleric 2/Storm Herald X isn't too terrible...

[Nidgit]

This is taking things in an entirely different direction, but you could pretty easily fluff Sun Soul Monk to a fun thunder-and-lightning themed fighter. Ki blasts are cool and all but what if they were sonic boom punches or streaks of electricity bursting from your hands? Radiant is usually one of the best damage types so your DM will likely be fine with a slight downgrade to thunder or lightning damage.

Anyways, if you do go with a melee-oriented Sorcerer, you should strongly consider dipping Paladin and/or Hexblade. Both offer an armor and weapons upgrade, with Paladin smites being nice for nova damage and Hexblade letting you use Charisma to attack. A melee Storm Sorcerer is one of my favorite concepts and very in line with what you're thinking.

[da newt]

Are you identical twins or fraternal?

If identical, I'd definitely push for same classes but different combat style. If fraternal, maybe your classes ought to diverge more.

Regardless, for a melee fighter w/ storm flavor, Tempest Cleric or Fighter or Paladin with a little Sorc is probably a better choice than Barb.

IF your twin is going to go BLUE/BRONZE Dragon Bloodline Sorc, I'd be really tempted to make your twin a BLUE/BRONZE Dragon Born because nothing sells your theme like lightning breath weapon and resistance.

[BigOunce]

Okay, I can't tell if this plan is bad or big brain material. Half elf (high elf variant for a free cantrip) with the floating bonus in Dex and Wis:

Str 8 or 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 8 or 10
Wis 14
Cha 14

Tempest Cleric 2 / Storm Sorcerer X, likely going up to 10-12. First ASI (at lvl 6 overall) is Mobile.

This would be rapier build, either sword&board or free hand (as we enforce Somatic spell component rules and I don't want Warcaster). Standard DPR move is Booming Blade and run away, with Misty Step and later Thunder Step working if Mobile isn't enough. Spell choice will be utility, mobility and flavour heavy, knowing that the twin will provide the big brain blasting; but with a few AoE thrown in (e.g. quickened Thunderwave, then Booming Blade, then run away). If I can consistly get enemies to chase me and proc the extra damage from Booming Blade, that keeps me competitive with martial.

The low Cha shouldn't be crippling, as it would mostly be AoE damage saves that will miss out on a high Cha. The lack of a fighting style shouldn't matter too much as I'd never be multi attacking. Even with Con 14, my health will not be fantastic, but if I'm "don't get hit" tanking that should be manageable.

So the big questions are over Cleric or Sorcerer for the first level, light or medium armour, and what to do with my second and likely final ASI at level 10. I'm leaning Medium Armour Master or +2 Dex, but we're only talking about +1 to hit and damage with Booming Blade, or +1 AC, both of which seem lacklustre.

Thoughts? It's in a "not fantastic but not terrible either" category in my mind, and would hopefully be fun.

On my phone so apologies if I've explained that badly.

[Tanarii]

Focusing on Dexterity on a character class designed for Heavy Armor and Martial Weapons character always seems like a waste to me. Especially if you're concerned about using a shield, Double especially as a half-elf, can just as easily be Strength.

So yeah, the plan looks bad to me, not big brain material

[Mr Adventurer]

You can in fact enter a rage while wearing heavy armour.

You just don't get the specific benefits listed in the Rage class feature.

If other class features grant you benefits while you rage, you may be able to gain them if they don't mention heavy armour.

From the SRD, "While raging, you gain the following benefits if you aren't wearing heavy armor:"

A level 6 Zealot would still be able to reroll one save while raging, for example.

[BigOunce]

Focusing on Dexterity on a character class designed for Heavy Armor and Martial Weapons character always seems like a waste to me. Especially if you're concerned about using a shield, Double especially as a half-elf, can just as easily be Strength.

So yeah, the plan looks bad to me, not big brain material

Are you referring to the two level cleric dip (ie the spellcaster class which gives neither heavy armour nor martial weapons, bar certain subclasses) or the sorcerer here?

Given the lack of any class features that key off Str or Dex, the choice boils down to 1 AC or a useful set of save/skill bonuses; ie nothing that will make a huge difference.

[Galithar]

Are you referring to the two level cleric dip (ie the spellcaster class which gives neither heavy armour nor martial weapons, bar certain subclasses) or the sorcerer here?

Given the lack of any class features that key off Str or Dex, the choice boils down to 1 AC or a useful set of save/skill bonuses; ie nothing that will make a huge difference.

Well I would assume he was referring to Tempest Cleric since that's the last build posted before his comment and the number one discussed class due to the specifics of the request. And Tempest Cleric does get Heavy Armor and Martial weapons.

I wouldn't say the Tempest Cleric really needs the heavy Armor though. It's an option for them, but they'll do just fine in medium or light armor (assuming they have the Dex) unless you plan on going GWM or something it's often as good or better to go with a Dex build regardless of the proficiencies you may have from your class. Dex saves are just worth so much more then Str. And more common in used skills in my experience.

[Tanarii]

Are you referring to the two level cleric dip (ie the spellcaster class which gives neither heavy armour nor martial weapons, bar certain subclasses) or the sorcerer here?I am referring to the 2 level Tempest Cleric dip, which gives both HA and Martial, regardless of which class you start with.


Given the lack of any class features that key off Str or Dex, the choice boils down to 1 AC or a useful set of save/skill bonuses; ie nothing that will make a huge difference.
it boils down to:
- being able to use all magical weapons. YMmV but this is often a huge deal.
- being able to use the highest base damage weapons, given you're already sacrificing the shield
- higher AC, at the cost of being restricted to magical HA
- being able to take GwM, if that's your thing. (Probably not in this case mileage varies)

Dex builds are not all things equal for Melee, provided you have access to HA and martial weapons.. Mostly because you're severely limiting your access to magic weapons.

Otoh my feedback was based on generic table. You know your specific table far better than I do.