If you could change one spell...

[Sindal]

Title

-I know some of you would probalby change A LOT of spells but narrow it down to your major one.
-Give a reason for your change


There are a few I would look at but at the end of the day, my contender is:

Spell - Cure wounds
Change - Range changed from touch to 30ft
Reason - Eh. I just want to be able to cast a nice bulky heal a little easier while my spiritual weapon is out. It's a minor thing really.A small, quality of life change really that i doubt would upset balance much considering healing word, it's contender, still has the advantage of being a bonus action and a longer range.

Lets hear it fam. Whats your 'spell you would change'

[Corran]

Alter self. I'd allow it increased duration with higher level slots, at least in games where changelings aren't a thing. Otherwise it might be a bad idea if not for anything else, simply because it would step on the main thing of changelings.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Polymorph. I'd try to find some balanced manner to allow changing into some monsters rather than just animals, retaining options for spellcasting and/or weapons usage in at least some cases, while also having some options for gaining interesting abilities. I haven't thought enough about the exact changes, but there has to be a sweet spot somewhere.

[MoiMagnus]

I don't like interruptions that assumes you don't know "what come next", because they make roll-backs pretty difficult, and slow down the game as you cannot skip intermediary steps in resolving actions.

Hence, I would change Counterspell so that you know exactly what spell is about to be cast and where when you have to chose to counterspell or not. Moreover, it always felt kind of stupid to me that it was the spell level, and not the difference of spell level, that was taken in account in the DC. The new text would become

Counterspell
3rd level Abjuration

Casting Time: free, part of a reaction
Range: 60 feet
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous
Classes: Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard
After using your reaction to successfully identify a spell cast by a creature you can see within 60 feet [As per Xanatar's rules: Int (Arcana) check, DC 15 + spell level, advantage if the spell is on your class list], you attempt to interrupt a creature in the process of casting a spell. If the creature is casting a spell of 3rd level or lower, its spell fails and has no effect. If it is casting a spell of 4th level or higher, make an ability check using your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10 + the spell’s level. On a success, the creature’s spell fails and has no effect.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the interrupted spell has no effect if its level is less than or equal to the level of the spell slot you used, and if its level is higher the DC is 13 - the level of the used spell slot + the spell's level.

EDIT: I put the Xanatar's rules for spell identification, but I don't particularly like them, so any other identification rule would do.

EDIT2; And additionally, I would generalize the rule "If you cast a spell with your bonus action, you can only cast a cantrip with your action" into "Only one non-cantrip spell per turn, and reactions counts for your next turn (instead of the turn prior)"

[Zhorn]

One spell... It would have to be True Strike, because that spell is just plain bad.
You spend 2 rounds to roll 1 attack with advantage, and have to maintain concentration between those turns to do so... on a cantrip. Why would you not just attack normally on each round, for the potential of twice the damage if they both hit?
Going back to an older thread on the topic for a fix idea


True Strike (modified)
Divination cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: -
Components: V, S, M (a weapon)
Duration: Instantaneous

As part of the action used to cast this spell, you must make a weapon attack with your currently equipped weapon against one creature within the that weapon's range/reach, otherwise the spell fails. As a benefit of this spell, you add 1d4 to the roll to hit.
This spell's bonus to hit increases by 1d4 when you reach 5th level (2d4), 11th level (3d4), and 17th level (4d4).
Drop the concentration, the whole round delay, and the advantage component. It instead executes much like Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade as a cantrip weapon attack, the d4's as a stacking accuracy increase over the tiers.
The flavor of the spell is maintained: The spell helps you strike true. Getting extra damage on that hit is up to some other effect, this is just about making the hit more likely, but since concentration is freed up, pairing it with another spell effect is now possible.

[Callak_Remier]

Stone skin. It's a garbage spell due to the constraints of concentration, also by the level your able to cast it you could argue it's useless as most enemies will be using magical attacks against the party.

****ing garbage spell.

[nickl_2000]

Stone skin. It's a garbage spell due to the constraints of concentration, also by the level your able to cast it you could argue it's useless as most enemies will be using magical attacks against the party.

****ing garbage spell.

Not only that, but it has a fairly expensive cost considering how bad the spell is.

[MrStabby]

Wall of force.

A totally indestructible, impassable barrier with pretty much no non magic way round it and certain magical defender also rendered pointless. The lack of interaction and absolute nature of this makes it no fun when players use it or when used against players (with the possible exception of the caster that gets exactly what they want with no rolls and no saves). Change it to allow a strength check to force your way through it. Even something high like a DC20 check would add some excitement to what happens and would help ensure it would scale appropriately to higher levels. DC18 would be my preferred DC though and would still make it an awesome spell. And don't get me started on forcecages.

[Theodoxus]

Witch Bolt. "The lightning tightens up you muscles, making it difficult to move. Your movement is reduced by 50%, round down." Helps keep the victim from running out of range of the spell, while not actually restraining them.

I'd also boost the ongoing damage to match the initial damage. And, finally, I'd let you switch targets ala Hex/Hunter's Mark, when the target drops to zero hit points (since with the other changes, there's a decent chance that the spell would actually last that long).

[Daphne]

Shield. +5 AC only to the triggering attack.

[Zhorn]

Shield. +5 AC only to the triggering attack.
I'm intrigued, why the nerf?

[stoutstien]

Hunger of Hadar. A class unique spell for a class that is all about casting at max spell level not having any upcast potential is beyond me. I'd increase aoe size for upcasting.

[JumboWheat01]

Find Traps.

I would have it cause all traps to glow within range, so you actually found them and know exactly where they are, and it shows up for your allies to see. Maybe make the glow last for a minute or two. Long enough to remember where, but not keep them obvious for all eternity.

Would it still be worth a slot? Probably not all the time, but at least it would actually be cast from time-to-time.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Eldritch Blast. I'd change it to a Warlock class feature, based on Warlock class levels only.

Reason: so fewer people would feel that a "dip" in Warlock is mandatory.

[HappyDaze]

Mirror Image. I don't like the d20 to resolve whether an image is hit.

I'd turn it into a d12 roll.

Three duplicates, redirect the attack on 4+.
Two duplicates, redirect the attack on 5+.
One duplicate, redirect the attack on 6+.

[Foxhound438]

tidal wave from 4d8 to 5d8. I know, it's such a little thing, but it bugs me that for the utility of knocking things prone (which isn't even necessarily going to help depending on turn order) costs you so much damage and area hit compared to a fireball in the same slot. There's a lot of spells I would change for the same reason, but this is one sticks out to me.

[SociopathFriend]

Fireball can care about cover like a proper explosion should. I'm out of patience for throwbacks from earlier editions that don't make sense.

[Theodoxus]

"The fire spreads around corners" <> "Fireball ignores cover". I grant a cover bonus to the dex save. Well, more specifically, I grant a defense bonus for cover to hit Reflex defense - but same difference.

[micahaphone]

Phantasmal Killer seems like it should be a better version of Phantasmal Force. It's not. It should be.

[Kane0]

One spell? One spell? You ask the impossible!

Witch Bolt. When I shoot lightning out of my fingertips, I want to elicit the appropriate amount of respect and fear out of those witnessing and subject to it. I'm also getting dreadfully bored of the usual fare when you start out a new game and want another spell that scales well.

[MaxWilson]

Title

-I know some of you would probalby change A LOT of spells but narrow it down to your major one.
-Give a reason for your change


There are a few I would look at but at the end of the day, my contender is:

Spell - Cure wounds
Change - Range changed from touch to 30ft
Reason - Eh. I just want to be able to cast a nice bulky heal a little easier while my spiritual weapon is out. It's a minor thing really.A small, quality of life change really that i doubt would upset balance much considering healing word, it's contender, still has the advantage of being a bonus action and a longer range.

Lets hear it fam. Whats your 'spell you would change'

Simulacrum. Where do I even start?

It's supposed to be a Combat As War spell for making a phony duplicate of someone in order to do tricky stuff like replace a king with your personal stooge, but somehow WotC made it a combat force-multiplier because everything in 5E is all about the combat. They never should have allowed it to make full-power copies of people in the first place--that's supposed to be a separate reincarnation + Limited Wish on top of the Simulacrum, otherwise it's just a pale zombielike imitation (which is why Simulacrum is an Illusion/Phantasm spell). Arguably the copies also have the full knowledge of the original as well, but they're friendly to the caster and obey his commands, so it might also be the world's best interrogation spell.

Then after WotC made it an extremely powerful copy-a-person spell, they tried to stuff the genie back in the box with restrictions: (1) can only copy humanoids, (2) can only have one copy at a time, period, of anyone, (3) the copies can't regain spell slots, (4) the copies apparently don't heal naturally and only certain spells can heal them. None of these restrictions stuff the genie back in the box. WotC couldn't resist breaking #2 in Storm King's Thunder with a custom spell (which Wish can therefore copy! even though they didn't publish the details of the spell), there are still plenty of spells like Goodberry and Aura of Vitality which can heal Simulacra, and there are plenty of rechargable abilities (Action Surge, maneuver dice, etc.) that don't rely on spell slots, including the epic Boon of Spell Recall which can let a single Simulacrum cast an unlimited number of 9th level spells over time (because the boon lets you cast a spell without a spell slot, and it comes back on a long rest).

It's an overpowered spell hemmed in by a bunch of silly restrictions which really aren't.

So I make it work like AD&D Simulacrum (but with the built-in Limited Wish + Reincarnation): you can copy anything including non-humanoids, and they can regain spell slots if they have them, but the copies are only about half as powerful as the original in terms of class levels and abilities (18th level wizard => 9th level Simulacrum), with no Epic Boons, and they don't actually have any of the original's memories/non-procedural knowledge. Nor do they have any supernatural ability to detect their creator, although they are friendly toward the creator are generally inclined to cooperate with anyone whom they believe to be him or her.

That makes still an extremely powerful spell, but powerful in the same way as Planar Binding (you can turn money + time into powerful minions + management headaches) instead of something that can destroy the world in minutes via Wish/Simulacrum chains.

[Joe the Rat]

Eldritch Blast. I'd change it to a Warlock class feature, based on Warlock class levels only.

Reason: so fewer people would feel that a "dip" in Warlock is mandatory.
I'd change EB, but just make it a run-of-the-mill force ray. It's the beam splitting that I would make the class feature. Possibly applied to any one damaging cantrip.

[SociopathFriend]

"The fire spreads around corners" <> "Fireball ignores cover". I grant a cover bonus to the dex save. Well, more specifically, I grant a defense bonus for cover to hit Reflex defense - but same difference.

You are the first person I've ever encountered to rule it that way.
Not saying you're wrong but simply explaining my reasoning. I've never been able to get cover from that stupid thing.

[Galithar]

You are the first person I've ever encountered to rule it that way.
Not saying you're wrong but simply explaining my reasoning. I've never been able to get cover from that stupid thing.

That's because of the line "The fire spreads around corners" which is usually interpreted as bypassing cover. I've never tried to rule against that, since it's not an explosion but instead a magical ball of fire that is specifically said to go around corners.

Real explosions also deal very very little (if any) fire damage compared to their shockwave (bludgeoning damage) so the 'treating it like a explosion for realism' argument has never worked on me, since I don't think it's an explosion In the conventional sense. I mean it's described as only creating a "low roar". I don't know how many explosions you've been around in real life, but the only way you're gonna hear a low roar is from a series of explosions in the distance.

[Solusek]

Counterspell The suggestion of the poster above who would add spell identification rules in the spells description is a good step, but my problem with counterspell is that it is TOO STRONG to begin with. Going from 3e rules where you had to ready an action on your turn just for the chance to see an enemy caster and try to counterspell them with dispel magic on their turn to 5e where it cost nothing action economy wise is too big of a jump. Counterspell is busted in 5e.

Thus my fix: Make counterspell a 4th level spell that counters any spell of 3rd level or lower. It may be upcast to counter anything of a lower level than the upcast is. There is no roll for success if you failed to upcast sufficiently. Simple, no rolling involved, but also a fair bit weaker than the current version.

[MrStabby]

So some personal and totally unsolicited feedback on what other people have said:




One spell... It would have to be True Strike, because that spell is just plain bad.
You spend 2 rounds to roll 1 attack with advantage, and have to maintain concentration between those turns to do so... on a cantrip. Why would you not just attack normally on each round, for the potential of twice the damage if they both hit?
Going back to an older thread on the topic for a fix idea


Drop the concentration, the whole round delay, and the advantage component. It instead executes much like Green-Flame Blade or Booming Blade as a cantrip weapon attack, the d4's as a stacking accuracy increase over the tiers.
The flavor of the spell is maintained: The spell helps you strike true. Getting extra damage on that hit is up to some other effect, this is just about making the hit more likely, but since concentration is freed up, pairing it with another spell effect is now possible.



Yeah a bad spell in need of fixing. That said, it never seemed to offer anything I really wanted from a cantrip, even badly, so less of a personal priority.


Stone skin. It's a garbage spell due to the constraints of concentration, also by the level your able to cast it you could argue it's useless as most enemies will be using magical attacks against the party.

****ing garbage spell.

Yeah. I love the idea of this as a higher level defensive spell that can help you be a lot more robust and throw yourself into combat (at a price). As it is, it just fails to deliver. Not only does it fail to deliver but it is also a spell that I feel the game is missing (as a viable spell).




Witch Bolt. "The lightning tightens up you muscles, making it difficult to move. Your movement is reduced by 50%, round down." Helps keep the victim from running out of range of the spell, while not actually restraining them.

I'd also boost the ongoing damage to match the initial damage. And, finally, I'd let you switch targets ala Hex/Hunter's Mark, when the target drops to zero hit points (since with the other changes, there's a decent chance that the spell would actually last that long).


The spell needs something. It is such a cool spell thematically. I think all your suggestions are pretty good.


Shield. +5 AC only to the triggering attack.

I hadn't thought about this before, but I think you have a point. As it is shield is one of the best spells in the game and I rarely, if ever, see any character that could take the spell, not take the spell. It is a sound fix I think.


Hunger of Hadar. A class unique spell for a class that is all about casting at max spell level not having any upcast potential is beyond me. I'd increase aoe size for upcasting.

Such a cool spell. Fits a potential theme of the class very well, but you are right - the lack of scaling means that it just doesnt see play as much as a spell like this should. Scalling the area would work, the damage would work or even adding bonus effects... This spell should be iconic - like sorcerer with fireball, wizard with wall of force, druid with conjure animals, cleric with spirit guardians - and I feel it should be of a similar level of utility


Find Traps.

I would have it cause all traps to glow within range, so you actually found them and know exactly where they are, and it shows up for your allies to see. Maybe make the glow last for a minute or two. Long enough to remember where, but not keep them obvious for all eternity.

Would it still be worth a slot? Probably not all the time, but at least it would actually be cast from time-to-time.

Frankly I am happy with finding traps being the domain of skills.





Eldritch Blast. I'd change it to a Warlock class feature, based on Warlock class levels only.

Reason: so fewer people would feel that a "dip" in Warlock is mandatory.

On the other hand this is a steep punishment for those who decide that the warlock sucks and they want to get out of it. Something that ties it to about level 4 or so would make dipping harder but still scaling with class level will let people feel a bit happier getting out of a class they don't enjoy with somewhat less of a cost.


tidal wave from 4d8 to 5d8. I know, it's such a little thing, but it bugs me that for the utility of knocking things prone (which isn't even necessarily going to help depending on turn order) costs you so much damage and area hit compared to a fireball in the same slot. There's a lot of spells I would change for the same reason, but this is one sticks out to me.

I was absolutely in agreement with you - the damage gap is too big for the gap in utility. My one reservation is the one you point out yourself... there is a lot of this. In which case it suggests that the spell that needs changing is fireball not tidal wave. I know it is iconic and that this is intentional - doing something bad intentionally does not stop it being bad though.


Simulacrum. Where do I even start?

It's supposed to be a Combat As War spell for making a phony duplicate of someone in order to do tricky stuff like replace a king with your personal stooge, but somehow WotC made it a combat force-multiplier because everything in 5E is all about the combat. They never should have allowed it to make full-power copies of people in the first place--that's supposed to be a separate reincarnation + Limited Wish on top of the Simulacrum, otherwise it's just a pale zombielike imitation (which is why Simulacrum is an Illusion/Phantasm spell). Arguably the copies also have the full knowledge of the original as well, but they're friendly to the caster and obey his commands, so it might also be the world's best interrogation spell.

Then after WotC made it an extremely powerful copy-a-person spell, they tried to stuff the genie back in the box with restrictions: (1) can only copy humanoids, (2) can only have one copy at a time, period, of anyone, (3) the copies can't regain spell slots, (4) the copies apparently don't heal naturally and only certain spells can heal them. None of these restrictions stuff the genie back in the box. WotC couldn't resist breaking #2 in Storm King's Thunder with a custom spell (which Wish can therefore copy! even though they didn't publish the details of the spell), there are still plenty of spells like Goodberry and Aura of Vitality which can heal Simulacra, and there are plenty of rechargable abilities (Action Surge, maneuver dice, etc.) that don't rely on spell slots, including the epic Boon of Spell Recall which can let a single Simulacrum cast an unlimited number of 9th level spells over time (because the boon lets you cast a spell without a spell slot, and it comes back on a long rest).

It's an overpowered spell hemmed in by a bunch of silly restrictions which really aren't.

So I make it work like AD&D Simulacrum (but with the built-in Limited Wish + Reincarnation): you can copy anything including non-humanoids, and they can regain spell slots if they have them, but the copies are only about half as powerful as the original in terms of class levels and abilities (18th level wizard => 9th level Simulacrum), with no Epic Boons, and they don't actually have any of the original's memories/non-procedural knowledge. Nor do they have any supernatural ability to detect their creator, although they are friendly toward the creator are generally inclined to cooperate with anyone whom they believe to be him or her.

That makes still an extremely powerful spell, but powerful in the same way as Planar Binding (you can turn money + time into powerful minions + management headaches) instead of something that can destroy the world in minutes via Wish/Simulacrum chains.

Yeah, I liked the older versions, although arguably they would still be too powerful. This spell skipped my mind as I tend to pretend it doesnt exist. You nailed a lot of the problems with it though. That said, I also think planar binding does bad things to the game so I might be on the restrictive side.


Counterspell The suggestion of the poster above who would add spell identification rules in the spells description is a good step, but my problem with counterspell is that it is TOO STRONG to begin with. Going from 3e rules where you had to ready an action on your turn just for the chance to see an enemy caster and try to counterspell them with dispel magic on their turn to 5e where it cost nothing action economy wise is too big of a jump. Counterspell is busted in 5e.

Thus my fix: Make counterspell a 4th level spell that counters any spell of 3rd level or lower. It may be upcast to counter anything of a lower level than the upcast is. There is no roll for success if you failed to upcast sufficiently. Simple, no rolling involved, but also a fair bit weaker than the current version.

I think I agree with the diagnosis but your fix doesnt suit me. It is still risk free. I want the excitement of knowing what spell is coming but to have that roll of the die to see what happens. For me the issue with counterspell is more the action economy side. I would prefer a cost of skipping your next action or similar. Having played at a table with a wizard who counterspelled at every opportunity and then cast leveled spells on their own turn, and then complained they were out of spell slots half way through the day, I think that some element of the spell to regulate resource usage might be useful.

[Spiritchaser]

Phantasmal Killer seems like it should be a better version of Phantasmal Force. It's not. It should be.

Try just making it an int save and see what happens!

[MoiMagnus]

I think I agree with the diagnosis but your fix doesnt suit me. It is still risk free. I want the excitement of knowing what spell is coming but to have that roll of the die to see what happens. For me the issue with counterspell is more the action economy side. I would prefer a cost of skipping your next action or similar. Having played at a table with a wizard who counterspelled at every opportunity and then cast leveled spells on their own turn, and then complained they were out of spell slots half way through the day, I think that some element of the spell to regulate resource usage might be useful.

Oh, right, I forgot to include this in my counterspell fix, since that's a problem I have with spell rules rather than a specific spell:
Only one non-cantrip spell per turn, and reactions counts for your next turn.
This generalize the "if you cast a spell with your bonus action, you can only cast a cantrip with your action"

[KorvinStarmast]

Witch bolt: the damage needs to not be nerfed on subsequent rounds. You still have to hit to apply any damage at all; 0 HP is a possible outcome.
You still have to maintain concentration.
It's already a fiddly spell, so making it that much of a pain to use ought to have a reward.

It's got Emperor Palpatine' magic purple finger bolts of death written all over it, so its intent to be cool.

True strike: roll 1d4 for one ally's attack. No save bonus. That's all I can see as a way to save this cantrip.

A very much scaled down shard of bless.
But if it stacks with bless, then it might be too strong?
So maybe "add +2 to one ally's attack (*or your own melee attack (if you can do one with a bonus action?)

That way, it costs an action.

It's still a mess.

[Callak_Remier]

Counterspell The suggestion of the poster above who would add spell identification rules in the spells description is a good step, but my problem with counterspell is that it is TOO STRONG to begin with. Going from 3e rules where you had to ready an action on your turn just for the chance to see an enemy caster and try to counterspell them with dispel magic on their turn to 5e where it cost nothing action economy wise is too big of a jump. Counterspell is busted in 5e.

Thus my fix: Make counterspell a 4th level spell that counters any spell of 3rd level or lower. It may be upcast to counter anything of a lower level than the upcast is. There is no roll for success if you failed to upcast sufficiently. Simple, no rolling involved, but also a fair bit weaker than the current version.

So glad that your fix destroys half of the spells available for the Abjurors 10th level class feature.

[Osuniev]

I've changed Healing Word to say :


Healing Word
the target as to be able to hear the Healing Word (Ie not deafened, inconscious, or in a zone of silence.


None of my players have ever noticed it's a house-rule (it seemed logical to them), and it makes Healing Word still really good (since it's a bonus action) but useless for helping inconscious allies, which makes other healing spells much better.


I would change True Strike to read :


True Strike
Your next attack has Advantage and ignores cover

AND
Critical Hits occur on a natural 17-20

or

the Critical Range of the attack is increased by 3 (so it stacks with other critrange bonuses such as champion fighter etc

I feel that's flavourful, and will make the spell still situational but a bit better.
A good option to combine with a Quickened Spell metamagic, for example.

[MaxWilson]

Yeah, I liked the older versions, although arguably they would still be too powerful. This spell skipped my mind as I tend to pretend it doesnt exist. You nailed a lot of the problems with it though. That said, I also think planar binding does bad things to the game so I might be on the restrictive side.

You're not wrong. Planar Binding could use a nerf too, and if so Simulacrum could then be further nerfed. My suggested nerf to Planar Binding would be: increase the upcasted duration a bit for thematic reasons (I like 9th level = 1 century) BUT also you only get to give it one simple command at the time of casting, like "find Xorxo and bring him to me" or "guard this cave from intruders until I return". Then the creature reports success to you as usual per the description, and then the spell ends.

I like this for flavor reasons as well as game reasons: binding a genie to a specific command is more common I think in myth than making it your slave on an ongoing basis. Getting a perma-slave requires something additional like discovering where it hides is life, then taking it hostage.

You could still try to use Planar Binding as a guided missile of sorts by giving it a task you're also trying to do yourself ("assist Cranduin in tomorrow's attack on Fort Bones") but you wouldn't have a potentially ever-increasing army of minions. Another way to look at it is that the spell would officially have enough restrictions that actually *using* it in play would be fun now instead of an exercise in trying to find reasons why the PC wouldn't use it fully (just because players don't like watching DMs roll dice against themselves--which PCs don't care about).

But, Simulacrum is worse so I picked that as my one spell.



I would change True Strike to read :

Your next attack has Advantage and ignores cover

*snip*

I feel that's flavourful, and will make the spell still situational but a bit better.
A good option to combine with a Quickened Spell metamagic, for example.

Ignores partial cover or all cover? If it ignores total cover that's highly exploitable for assassinations.

There's a good reason why Sharpshooter and Spell Sniper only ignore partial cover.

[Amechra]

Oh, right, I forgot to include this in my counterspell fix, since that's a problem I have with spell rules rather than a specific spell:
Only one non-cantrip spell per turn, and reactions counts for your next turn.
This generalize the "if you cast a spell with your bonus action, you can only cast a cantrip with your action"

When did the Sorcerer eat your cat?

Seriously, that rule basically exists just to nerf Quicken Spell. I'm... a bit salty about that.

I'm going to waste my spell pick and go with Witch Bolt as well, in memory of my Storm Sorcerer who wanted to go entirely lightning based. As a basic fix, I'd go with applying the scaling to all of the damage the spell deals. So if you cast it from a 2nd level slot, the initial damage is 2d12, and the "spend your action to deal more" effect is also 2d12. While that's very efficient damage-wise, it also takes up Concentration AND your Action on each turn (including the turn you cast it, if you Quicken it).

[Wildarm]

Simulacrum. Where do I even start?


Simpler solution would be to have Simulacrum have a true cost. The caster has to use some of their own life force to power the thing a la familiars in older editions. You have to pay 1HP per hit dice(caster chooses how much to invest) of the the simulacrum. You can never regain those HP short of a wish spell.

So, low risk you can make a 1HD version of the target. Still get the clone nature of the spell but no combat boost. High risk, you invest heavily in a copy of yourself and get all the combat power but at a cost of your own life force. Would probably remove the weakness to dispel magic on the similacrum but otherwise the spell would remain the same.

[MrStabby]

When did the Sorcerer eat your cat?

Seriously, that rule basically exists just to nerf Quicken Spell. I'm... a bit salty about that.

I'm going to waste my spell pick and go with Witch Bolt as well, in memory of my Storm Sorcerer who wanted to go entirely lightning based. As a basic fix, I'd go with applying the scaling to all of the damage the spell deals. So if you cast it from a 2nd level slot, the initial damage is 2d12, and the "spend your action to deal more" effect is also 2d12. While that's very efficient damage-wise, it also takes up Concentration AND your Action on each turn (including the turn you cast it, if you Quicken it).

I am not sure what impact you are seeing on quicken spell?

It doesn't seem that different to the existing rule,indeed slightly more liberal on the ordering. The impact is almost purely on reaction spells as I see it.

[Amechra]

I am not sure what impact you are seeing on quicken spell?

It doesn't seem that different to the existing rule,indeed slightly more liberal on the ordering. The impact is almost purely on reaction spells as I see it.

I have an irrational hatred of the rule in general. So that's going to spill over to anything related to it.

It's kinda dumb, I'll be honest.

[malachi]

Oh, right, I forgot to include this in my counterspell fix, since that's a problem I have with spell rules rather than a specific spell:
Only one non-cantrip spell per turn, and reactions counts for your next turn.
This generalize the "if you cast a spell with your bonus action, you can only cast a cantrip with your action"


When did the Sorcerer eat your cat?

Seriously, that rule basically exists just to nerf Quicken Spell. I'm... a bit salty about that.


I am not sure what impact you are seeing on quicken spell?

It doesn't seem that different to the existing rule,indeed slightly more liberal on the ordering. The impact is almost purely on reaction spells as I see it.

MrStabby is right; there's no impact on Quicken Spell. What this does impact is Action Surge for spellcasting (and makes Shield/Counterspell/etc work like the war mage's Arcane Deflection).
The default rule on p. 202 of the PHB says "You can't cast another spell during the same turn [that you cast a spell using a bonus action], except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action", and that is what nerfs Quicken Spell.

[MoiMagnus]

When did the Sorcerer eat your cat?

Seriously, that rule basically exists just to nerf Quicken Spell. I'm... a bit salty about that.

I don't see why. Quicken Spell do not allow you to cast two non-cantrip spell in the same turns, because of the rule (p202 of the PHB):

[When you cast a spell as a bonus action,] you can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.
This rule is there because the developers didn't want Quicken Spells to allow for "double fireball".

What I'm suggesting to do is to replace it by:


When you cast a non-cantrip spell as a bonus action, you can't cast another non-cantrip spell during the same turn (but you can still cast cantrips). When you cast a non-cantrip spell as a reaction, you can't cast another non-cantrip spell during your next turn (but you can still cast cantrips).

Which change nothing if you don't have reaction spells. In fact, it even allow you to cast a cantrip as bonus action with Quicken spell and a non-cantrip spell with your action, which you are not able to do currently, though I've not manage to find a situation where this would be useful.

[I do admit it does nerf Shield as a collateral damage.]

EDIT: someone answered before me...

[micahaphone]

That also nerfs War Caster.

It does bring it in line with the free +2 AC / +4 saving throw reaction thing that War Wizards get

[Potato_Priest]

Goodberry.

Goodberry creates 1d4+Casting ability modifier berries, and the food benefit becomes an optional variant rule.

I absolutely hate how good this spel is at out of combat healing and the way it totally neutralizes rations.

[sithlordnergal]

Antimagic Field: I would change this spell to a Touch Spell. As it is right now, I could never see myself using this spell as a player or a DM. Why? Because the detriments do not outweigh the advantages. This is spell turns off magic items, suppresses spells and magical effects, and prevents the person inside it from casting or being targeted by spells and/or magical effects...and it has a Range of Self with a 10ft radius.

And which two classes get to cast this amazing spell that shuts down any and all magic and magical effects? Wizards and Clerics. Wizards and Clerics get a spell that shut down every single one of their class abilities. Sure, its great defensively against casters, but you end up making yourself vulnerable to being hit and you are now useless for the rest of the party because you can't cast anything, you can't really hit anything, and you can't use class abilities like Turn Undead.

Now, picture Antimagic Field as a Touch spell. It would be an amazing buff for almost any martial class. Sure, those classes lose their magical gear, but those classes still work fine if you take all their magic away. Imagine a Fighter, Monk, or Barbarian with Antimagic Field centered on them. Its only a 10ft radius, so it only effects those they're in melee with, and it lets them effectively combat casters.

[Aett_Thorn]

Mirror Image

Mainly just to rewrite and clarify exactly how it works. This spell seems to cause the most argument on how it works on this forum. Just have it clarify that the spell has no impact on non-attack targeting.

[Theodoxus]

That's because of the line "The fire spreads around corners" which is usually interpreted as bypassing cover. I've never tried to rule against that, since it's not an explosion but instead a magical ball of fire that is specifically said to go around corners.

Real explosions also deal very very little (if any) fire damage compared to their shockwave (bludgeoning damage) so the 'treating it like a explosion for realism' argument has never worked on me, since I don't think it's an explosion In the conventional sense. I mean it's described as only creating a "low roar". I don't know how many explosions you've been around in real life, but the only way you're gonna hear a low roar is from a series of explosions in the distance.

The only problem is that every other spell (Sacred Flame, for instance) specifies that it ignores cover. Since there is a specific phrase used by the authors, trying to infer "spreads around corners" to equate doesn't make sense.

What I interpret spreading around corners to mean is that you can't hide behind a column or around a wall to avoid the blast. But it does provide some assistance to avoiding the damage (cover bonus). But that's just me - feel free to run it as ignoring cover.

[Kane0]

Change Lightning Bolt to bounce like it used to in older editions. Compares more favorably to Fireball and gets around cover problems with one stroke.

[Sigreid]

I'd change clone back to creating a copy of the individual that is aware they are a clone and obsessed with murdering the original to take his/her place.

[SociopathFriend]

The only problem is that every other spell (Sacred Flame, for instance) specifies that it ignores cover. Since there is a specific phrase used by the authors, trying to infer "spreads around corners" to equate doesn't make sense.

What I interpret spreading around corners to mean is that you can't hide behind a column or around a wall to avoid the blast. But it does provide some assistance to avoiding the damage (cover bonus). But that's just me - feel free to run it as ignoring cover.

(Blinks and checks Sacred Flame)
Oh I'm definitely bringing that up the next time I have a group of people providing a literal shield wall against a Fireball and the DM states I get no benefit from cover.

Going around corners I believe has to be specified as RAW spells don't affect anything beyond their stated range and line of sight.

I happened to lose this argument before when I had it and was fairly bummed at the time as I ate two Fireballs because of it.

[Sigreid]

(Blinks and checks Sacred Flame)
Oh I'm definitely bringing that up the next time I have a group of people providing a literal shield wall against a Fireball and the DM states I get no benefit from cover.

Going around corners I believe has to be specified as RAW spells don't affect anything beyond their stated range and line of sight.

I happened to lose this argument before when I had it and was fairly bummed at the time as I ate two Fireballs because of it.

Well, to be fair, Sacred Flame targets one individual instead of filling an area. I can see why they'd feel the need to call out the one and not the other. I don't believe the current fireball explodes the way they used to be described. I think it just creates a sphere full of fire.

[opaopajr]

Eldritch Blast. I'd change it to a Warlock class feature, based on Warlock class levels only.

Reason: so fewer people would feel that a "dip" in Warlock is mandatory.

This, or nerf Goodberry, or Find Familiar... decisions, decisions. :smallcool:

[MaxWilson]

This, or nerf Goodberry, or Find Familiar... decisions, decisions. :smallcool:

Goodberry doesn't need that much of a nerf really. It just needs correct interpretation: there's a lot of people out there including Jeremy Crawford who believe incorrectly that it benefits from Disciple of Life to quadruple the healing output. (It doesn't. Disciple of Life only works when you heal someone with a spell, and Goodberry doesn't heal anyone, it just creates some berries and then ends. Its duration is instantaneous.)

Along the same lines, there are a lot of people who think that you can have a Familiar or something feed a Goodberry to an unconscious creature to restore the creature to 1 HP, which again is incorrect by RAW.

If you play Goodberry by strict RAW, about the most annoying that you can do with it is have the druid create a couple of hundred Goodberries at the end of an easy day, which basically lets him bank healing for 24 hours. Annoying, but not nearly as easy to abuse as most people think, and if the DM is running multi-day adventures it's not easy to get much use out of it at all.

[Luccan]

Goodberry doesn't need that much of a nerf really. It just needs correct interpretation: there's a lot of people out there including Jeremy Crawford who believe incorrectly that it benefits from Disciple of Life to quadruple the healing output. (It doesn't. Disciple of Life only works when you heal someone with a spell, and Goodberry doesn't heal anyone, it just creates some berries and then ends. Its duration is instantaneous.)

Along the same lines, there are a lot of people who think that you can have a Familiar or something feed a Goodberry to an unconscious creature to restore the creature to 1 HP, which again is incorrect by RAW.

If you play Goodberry by strict RAW, about the most annoying that you can do with it is have the druid create a couple of hundred Goodberries at the end of an easy day, which basically lets him bank healing for 24 hours. Annoying, but not nearly as easy to abuse as most people think, and if the DM is running multi-day adventures it's not easy to get much use out of it at all.

It's also one of those abilities that destroys the need to play out a major part of the exploration pillar.

[Potato_Priest]

It's also one of those abilities that destroys the need to play out a major part of the exploration pillar.

Yeah, that's why I made that part an optional rule in my changes above. For those who don't want to play exploration/track rations, sure. For those who do, let us have our fun.

[Luccan]

Yeah, that's why I made that part an optional rule in my changes above. For those who don't want to play exploration/track rations, sure. For those who do, let us have our fun.

Someone had the recommendation of a consumable material component. I think that can make it work in a resource-dependant game.

[Pufferwockey]

Witch Bolt. "The lightning tightens up you muscles, making it difficult to move. Your movement is reduced by 50%, round down." Helps keep the victim from running out of range of the spell, while not actually restraining them.

I'd also boost the ongoing damage to match the initial damage. And, finally, I'd let you switch targets ala Hex/Hunter's Mark, when the target drops to zero hit points (since with the other changes, there's a decent chance that the spell would actually last that long).

I think all that might be a bit much, but I agree it needs more

[Potato_Priest]

Someone had the recommendation of a consumable material component. I think that can make it work in a resource-dependant game.

Yeah, as long as the component isn't available for sale anywhere.

Personally, in my real games where I want food gathering to be a thing I just don't let players take the spell.

[Luccan]

Yeah, as long as the component isn't available for sale anywhere.

Personally, in my real games where I want food gathering to be a thing I just don't let players take the spell.

Yeah, I actually saw it suggested based on a game where the players had literally nothing and started in the middle of tundra area. Might be a less effective houserule if they have the chance to pop into town, but I imagine a frontier/long expedition game could still use it to some effect.

Also, the spell I would change is Friends. It doesn't make creatures hostile, but it only works on a creature once every 24-hours (whether or not your check succeeds). Possibly almost too good this way, but it lasts a minute at most and I can't remember the last time I had to roll more than one Charisma check against a single creature in less than a minute anyway, so it at least shouldn't be abusable against a single, important target.

[Galithar]

The only problem is that every other spell (Sacred Flame, for instance) specifies that it ignores cover. Since there is a specific phrase used by the authors, trying to infer "spreads around corners" to equate doesn't make sense.

What I interpret spreading around corners to mean is that you can't hide behind a column or around a wall to avoid the blast. But it does provide some assistance to avoiding the damage (cover bonus). But that's just me - feel free to run it as ignoring cover.

I mean it would be a nice 'weakness' for Fireball if you could get cover from it.
Look at this situation though. You're 10 feet around a corner. You have full cover from the caster. You have full cover from the point he detonates the fireball, but are within the radius. Fireball goes around the corner to you anyways. What level of cover do you have? Full cover? No, the fireball goes around the corner. 3/4? From what? The fireball literally just went around the wall you were using as cover. There is nothing to protect you from the flames of the fireball. There is no logical argument to getting cover from something that says it goes around your cover.
Sacred Flame specifically calls out the cover because it's not spreading from a point and "going are corners" it targets only one creature and cover bonus would be assumed to apply. Fireball on the other hand is one of few (if not the only) spreads from a point AoE spells that calls out going around corners. However I could be wrong about that since there are a crap load of spells and I favor control and buffing over damage with my casters so I'm less familiar with the large number of attacking spells.

[Theodoxus]

I mean it would be a nice 'weakness' for Fireball if you could get cover from it.
Look at this situation though. You're 10 feet around a corner. You have full cover from the caster. You have full cover from the point he detonates the fireball, but are within the radius. Fireball goes around the corner to you anyways. What level of cover do you have? Full cover? No, the fireball goes around the corner. 3/4? From what? The fireball literally just went around the wall you were using as cover. There is nothing to protect you from the flames of the fireball. There is no logical argument to getting cover from something that says it goes around your cover.
Sacred Flame specifically calls out the cover because it's not spreading from a point and "going are corners" it targets only one creature and cover bonus would be assumed to apply. Fireball on the other hand is one of few (if not the only) spreads from a point AoE spells that calls out going around corners. However I could be wrong about that since there are a crap load of spells and I favor control and buffing over damage with my casters so I'm less familiar with the large number of attacking spells.

Fogs spread too. As for how much cover, I rule it as from LOS. Yeah, the fire is spreading around the corner, but it's also weakened because it's spread, granting you a bonus to the save.

But an even worse scenario that I can't wrap my head around and simply shrug it off as "gamist", is fireball vs. evasion in a white room. What exactly are you doing to get out of the blast so that it doesn't singe you at all?

[Vorpalchicken]

Connecticut

[Galithar]

Fogs spread too. As for how much cover, I rule it as from LOS. Yeah, the fire is spreading around the corner, but it's also weakened because it's spread, granting you a bonus to the save.

But an even worse scenario that I can't wrap my head around and simply shrug it off as "gamist", is fireball vs. evasion in a white room. What exactly are you doing to get out of the blast so that it doesn't singe you at all?

For cover, that would mean full cover. Which means it doesn't do anything which is definitely against what the spell says. Not saying you can't rule it that way just explaining why it is handled how it is by the best majority of people.


I've actually heard some pretty good descriptions for that. One was something like 'The rogue does a flipping jump, spinning between the wisps of flame as they roar outwards' for this you have to imagine Fireball even less like an explosion and more like a wave of fire that has gaps in it, then given enough agility can be completely avoided. Since it's 'magical flame' and not actual fire, being close to it doesn't hurt at all. Only being directly touched by it.

The low Dex wizard that makes the save for half damage 'puts up a magical barrier that slows but doesn't stop the flames completely as they surround him.

If you fluff it enough you can really help your sense of immersion in things like this. I'm good at imagining it later, but not so good at coming up with these things in the moment lol

[MaxWilson]

It's also one of those abilities that destroys the need to play out a major part of the exploration pillar.

I'd be more inclined to agree if 5E had that part of the exploration pillar, but even just the Outlander background permanently destroys any need to actually worry about food, and Goodberry doesn't actually do anything about the (more urgent) need for water.


Also, the spell I would change is Friends. It doesn't make creatures hostile, but it only works on a creature once every 24-hours (whether or not your check succeeds). Possibly almost too good this way, but it lasts a minute at most and I can't remember the last time I had to roll more than one Charisma check against a single creature in less than a minute anyway, so it at least shouldn't be abusable against a single, important target.

It's not really worth worrying about Friends abuse anyway, since whatever can be done via Friends can also be done (without the drawbacks) via Enhance Ability or just plain lucky die-rolling.

[Petrocorus]

It may be a bit silly, but one spell that bugs me is Phantom Steed.
They totally nerfed it compared to 3.5, but i don't see the point.

The nerfs on duration and speed only impede the travel use of that spell, not the combat use of it. And i really don't see the point of nerfing the travel capabilities of wizards.
I would give back a long duration, and probably allow the steed to ignore difficult terrains.

I also like to bring back Phase Door. I like that spell. And i like even more to see the players try to figure out how the NPC got out of a room which has no secret door.


One spell... It would have to be True Strike, because that spell..... stacking accuracy increase over the tiers.
+1

[Luccan]

I'd be more inclined to agree if 5E had that part of the exploration pillar, but even just the Outlander background permanently destroys any need to actually worry about food, and Goodberry doesn't actually do anything about the (more urgent) need for water.



It's not really worth worrying about Friends abuse anyway, since whatever can be done via Friends can also be done (without the drawbacks) via Enhance Ability or just plain lucky die-rolling.

The point about Outlander is good, but I did say it's "one of those abilities" on purpose. Outlander is obviously another. And IME if there's one thing that gets checked less than rations, it's water.

Enhance Ability is the better option right now because of the Friends drawback. But it's also a second level spell slot. Simply removing any restriction would make Friends the superior choice for social interaction almost always and potentially turn it into a powerhouse cantrip for Bards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks. Especially Bards. And constant advantage is going to increase the chance of a lucky die roll, which is clearly better than not doing so.

[Pufferwockey]

I'd be more inclined to agree if 5E had that part of the exploration pillar, but even just the Outlander background permanently destroys any need to actually worry about food, and Goodberry doesn't actually do anything about the (more urgent) need for water.


Outlander has an exception for the DM to say that conditions are too harsh, for one reason or another, for the gathering food feature to work. It basically says "find food automatically unless you're in in a survival adventure or the DM just doesn't want you too."