Righteous Might and size inscrease

[Zhepna]

Hi,

we play 3.5

1) I'm a medium human and get the half-minotaur template. It increase my size to large. Since multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack, can I cast Righteous Might and become huge or the template doesn't count as a magical effect?

2) if 1) work, I'm now a large cleric and cast Righteous Might, concerning strenght, do I only gain +8 size bonus to Strength or do I also gain more strenght since I increased my size? I asks because I'm confuse.

I saw only the following statement online concerning half-minotaur template:
''In addition to the standard stat bonuses one gets for being a Half Minotaur, they increase from Medium to Large Size, giving them the following additional Ability Score changes:
+8 Strength
-2 Dexterity
+2 Constitution''

but if I check the enlarge spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm), we only gains gains a +2 size bonus to Strength

so I wonder why the template increases for 8 strenght and spells seems to increase at a variable amount of strenght depending of the spell even if it's always only for one size increase.

[Covenant12]

For Righteous Might, you don't gain additional stats per Monster Manual for increasing size. Likewise Enlarge Person. Just what is in the individual spell description.
Note that I'm fairly sure "magical increases to size don't stack" isn't the general rule, just the rule in most spells that do that. Animal Growth, Enlarge Person, and Righteous Might say that....and word it that it applies to every magical effect, ever.
At any rate, "template" isn't considered a "magical effect" for this purpose. You were generally born that way, not magicked. (Mineral Warrior and some others can explicitly be added, rarely even have rules how)

Half-Minotaur is an almost unique case (Half-Ogre next to it, but Half-Ogre is flat out worse and there are more recent templates named Half-Ogre) and is particularly noteworthy as being poorly written/thought out/playtested. It is a major example of why many DM's start from "ban Dragon Magazine", occasionally allowing it case-by-case.

RAW is quite clear for Half-Minotaur, at least. Half-Minotaur Human or Dwarf is +12 Str, Half-Minotaur Orc is +16 Str. Plus reach and some good stuff besides, and minimal penalties for +1 LA. Very few DM's would allow that as written.

[Biggus]

1) I'm a medium human and get the half-minotaur template. It increase my size to large. Since multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack, can I cast Righteous Might and become huge or the template doesn't count as a magical effect?


Did you gain the template via a spell or other magical effect? If so, it won't stack. If your character was born a half-minotaur, it will.



Note that I'm fairly sure "magical increases to size don't stack" isn't the general rule, just the rule in most spells that do that. Animal Growth, Enlarge Person, and Righteous Might say that....and word it that it applies to every magical effect, ever.

The wording in those spells is "multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack". That seems pretty unambiguous that's it's a general rule. If they said "this spell does not stack with other spells which increase size" that would be a rule specific to that spell.

[Zhepna]

Thanks a lot for the fast and precise answer :smallsmile:

[Covenant12]

The wording in those spells is "multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack". That seems pretty unambiguous that's it's a general rule. If they said "this spell does not stack with other spells which increase size" that would be a rule specific to that spell.Yeah, after the "...." was my final conclusion that agrees with you, somewhat to my surprise. I'd far prefer that decision under spells in general than in multiple specific spells, but the writers clearly never asked me.

[Biggus]

Yeah, after the "...." was my final conclusion that agrees with you, somewhat to my surprise. I'd far prefer that decision under spells in general than in multiple specific spells, but the writers clearly never asked me.

Ah OK, I was a bit confused as you seemed to start by saying one thing then finish saying another so I thought it was worth clarifying.

And yeah, I've often been annoyed by the way they put general rules under specific spells and feats rather than in the relevant main rules section.