Least used spells?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Just reading through the list, have any of you all ever cast or seen Sequester cast in game? With that niche use and the high material cost it seems like something a NPC cast on a McGuffin you need to find

How about some other spells? What never gets used?

[JakOfAllTirades]

Illusory Script.

[vexedart]

Detect traps should be pretty high up in the least used category.

[LudicSavant]

Mordenkainen's Sword is shown up pretty thoroughly by Crown of Stars.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

True strick.

[Bosh]

True strick.

Thought about using it with the Magic Initiate feat. Finger guns when staring someone down and then advantage when combat starts.

Ended up with a different build, so yeah...

[ZorroGames]

Joined a non-AL group 🤯 in Dungeon of the Mad Mage at level 7 where the fireball cast several weeks ago was the first time. Very heavy RP group that is driving our 15 year old Paladin MurderHobo crazy. Seems we are splitting the group of 10 (8 regulars) playing 2 hour sessions 🙄 into two groups after the New Year.

Dit: least used spells depend on play style.

[Imbalance]

Not that I have a lot of experience under my belt, but given the alphabetical listing in most sources I'm quite sure many in the back half seldom see a casting, especially the high level spells. Has anyone ever used Weird?

[Teaguethebean]

Not that I have a lot of experience under my belt, but given the alphabetical listing in most sources I'm quite sure many in the back half seldom see a casting, especially the high level spells. Has anyone ever used Weird?

Well I would say that is because weird is a garbage spell.
I have never seen someone use melf's acid arrow, it is just so much worse than scorching ray or magic missile that nobody bothers.

[malachi]

Well I would say that is because weird is a garbage spell.
I have never seen someone use melf's acid arrow, it is just so much worse than scorching ray or magic missile that nobody bothers.

An NPC used it once, and it happened to take one PC to 0, then gave an automatic failed death save the following round. It had a niche that caused some tension, but it doesn't seem like a great PC choice.

It's not even better than the spells you mentioned for triggering concentration checks, because it only deals damage twice, while SR / MM hit 3+ times.

[Teaguethebean]

An NPC used it once, and it happened to take one PC to 0, then gave an automatic failed death save the following round. It had a niche that caused some tension, but it doesn't seem like a great PC choice.

I totally agree. A lot of players don't know all the spells in the book so I give my npc strange and very different spells as it helps keep players intrested. Just last weak I was running a game for some new players and they started fighting a toned down hell hound. (They are level 2) and the level 1 druid npc cast Faerie fire completely turning the tide and now the bard is pumped to Level up and learn it.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Alter Self. Witchbolt. Secret Chest. Detect Poison and Disease. Calm Emotions.

Not all horrible spells, but I've never seen anyone use them.

[JumboWheat01]

Since supposedly most campaigns only go up to level 8 to 10, I'd say any Sixth level spell and up are the least used.

On a personal experience note, split up into a few groups:

Damage - Inflict Wounds. Probably because of its short range and no-damage on a save thing.
Support - Protection from Good and Evil. No idea why this was never used all that much, though it's probably the Concentration limit.
Utility - Purify Food and Drink. Has just never been a problem in any campaign I've played.

[ZorroGames]

Alter Self. Witchbolt. Secret Chest. Detect Poison and Disease. Calm Emotions.

Not all horrible spells, but I've never seen anyone use them.

If our Wizard Mc uses it less than twice a game I would be surprised.

[Guy Lombard-O]

If our Wizard Mc uses it less than twice a game I would be surprised.

Which one?

[ZorroGames]

Which one?

Alter Self. And never for combat, just social interactions with creatures in Dungeon of the Mad Mage, just arrived at Skullport, first dungeon crawl that has been flat for me.

[Sigreid]

Well I would say that is because weird is a garbage spell.
I have never seen someone use melf's acid arrow, it is just so much worse than scorching ray or magic missile that nobody bothers.

If you don't have firebolt or something like that it's a decent prepare when you know you are going to fight trolls.

[Teaguethebean]

If you don't have firebolt or something like that it's a decent prepare when you know you are going to fight trolls.

But no because Scorching ray is just better.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Alter Self. Witchbolt. Secret Chest. Detect Poison and Disease. Calm Emotions.

Not all horrible spells, but I've never seen anyone use them.

I have a bard built around clam emotions, used it most of the time.

Detect poison and disease is very useful as drow detection and for disease carrying enemies detection (very campaign dependent).

[Theodoxus]

Not that I have a lot of experience under my belt, but given the alphabetical listing in most sources I'm quite sure many in the back half seldom see a casting, especially the high level spells. Has anyone ever used Weird?

It's right up there with Imprisonment. It's a decent plot devise, but no 17+ party I've ever seen would waste the time and expense on using it when killing the target will be 9/10 easier to do.

[NNescio]

I have a bard built around clam emotions, used it most of the time.

Detect poison and disease is very useful as drow detection and for disease carrying enemies detection (very campaign dependent).

Also doubles as the "booze-detecting spell".

(If the DM chooses to rule alcohol counts as poison. Which most do, in my experience. But that's just my personal view.)

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Also doubles as the "booze-detecting spell".

(If the DM chooses to rule alcohol counts as poison. Which most do, in my experience. But that's just my personal view.)

Now I fell bad that my alcoholic paladin did never prepare it(he didn't care about poison and disease).

He left the party after we found an ancient dwarven ale storage.

[FirstBornSon]

Skywrite, although it is cool proposal.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Skywrite, although it is cool proposal.

Really useful to deliver massages to the masses.
Or for naval games.

[Sigreid]

But no because Scorching ray is just better.

If you have it.

[Kurt Kurageous]

Tenser's Floating Disk.

So few games use encumbrance in a meaningful way.

[Undyne]

Just reading through the list, have any of you all ever cast or seen Sequester cast in game? With that niche use and the high material cost it seems like something a NPC cast on a McGuffin you need to find

How about some other spells? What never gets used?

Skywrite. I like using it personally as a worldbuilder, sort of a way for a town to communicate in mass, but players almost never use it.

[Sigreid]

Tenser's Floating Disk.

So few games use encumbrance in a meaningful way.

Use it fairly frequently myself.

[KorvinStarmast]

Tenser's Floating Disk.

So few games use encumbrance in a meaningful way. My brother's wizard used it a lot in our first campaign.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Alter Self. And never for combat, just social interactions with creatures in Dungeon of the Mad Mage, just arrived at Skullport, first dungeon crawl that has been flat for me.

Hmmm. Wouldn't Disguise Self work just as well for that? Better, actually. Being non-concentration means that you can do both DS and Enhance Ability - Cha at the same time.

The concentration is probably the reason I don't see it getting much use. If you want to breath water, Water Breathing is only 1 level higher, a ritual, non-concentration, lasts longer, and effects the whole party.

If you want a magical melee attack, Magic Weapon is the same level and lets you do at least as much (average) damage (when combined with your regular weapon attack). Same level, same duration.

Alter Self isn't a bad spell. It's just that there are other spells that can do everything it does, but are all better at that thing. I guess it's got good flexibility, though.


I have a bard built around clam emotions, used it most of the time.

Yeah, it's a decent spell. I just don't see it get used. Glad you get mileage out of it!


Detect poison and disease is very useful as drow detection and for disease carrying enemies detection (very campaign dependent).

Never thought of that (or seen it done) - Nice!


Now I fell bad that my alcoholic paladin did never prepare it(he didn't care about poison and disease).

He left the party after we found an ancient dwarven ale storage.

I've actually had my paladin use Lay on Hands to cure hangovers. Damn drunken wizard!

[Teaguethebean]

If you have it.

The only 2 who can have it but not scorching ray are swamp druids and alchemists, so a fairly small scope of characters. (I have never seen a swamp druid pc though with artificer's release it may get used.)

[Aussiehams]

This makes me wonder, what spells are mainly designed for BBEG's and NPC's rather than PC's?

[Luccan]

This makes me wonder, what spells are mainly designed for BBEG's and NPC's rather than PC's?

In the thread on spells you would change, someone mentioned an NPC having a spell that was like Simulacrum, but without several of its limits. So there's that.

I have never seen anyone use Friends, for obvious reasons. I'm sure there are those who do, but it just doesn't seem worth taking most of the time and the people I have played with seem to agree.

[Slayn82]

Friends/Disguise Self is a pretty nasty combo to set up someone.

By itself, Friends is a spell that has almost the same effof an intimidation check, but you still are talking nicely the whole time.

Nice way to convince an enemy to surrender, someone to tell the truth, or if you were already gonna use intimidation and turn hostile to the target anyway.

[Sigreid]

The only 2 who can have it but not scorching ray are swamp druids and alchemists, so a fairly small scope of characters. (I have never seen a swamp druid pc though with artificer's release it may get used.)

Sorry, you misunderstand, Scorching Ray isn't always or even usually a default pick for me. There's a decent chance at least my wizard doesn't have it.

[Luccan]

Sorry, you misunderstand, Scorching Ray isn't always or even usually a default pick for me. There's a decent chance at least my wizard doesn't have it.

But do you usually choose Melf's acid arrow instead? I'm not necessarily in the "acid arrow is garbage" camp, but if the only reason you're using the spell is that you don't have the other and somehow acquired Melf's without choosing it on level-up or purchasing it when Scorching Ray was also an option, then it's not a particularly strong point in Acid Arrow's favor.

[Sigreid]

But do you usually choose Melf's acid arrow instead? I'm not necessarily in the "acid arrow is garbage" camp, but if the only reason you're using the spell is that you don't have the other and somehow acquired Melf's without choosing it on level-up or purchasing it when Scorching Ray was also an option, then it's not a particularly strong point in Acid Arrow's favor.

I don't think I've ever picked Acid Arrow, but I've had it come up on more than one character in a looted spellbook. I don't consider either an A list spell, but you copy spells you wouldn't normally pick because the time for that spell may come up. That was really my only point. It's possible, and even easy for a wizard in a party about to deal with trolls to have gotten acid arrow from somewhere and not have a better option. And it's a pretty good option for trolls if that's all you got to shut down their regeneration.

[HiveStriker]

Hmmm. Wouldn't Disguise Self work just as well for that? Better, actually. Being non-concentration means that you can do both DS and Enhance Ability - Cha at the same time.

The concentration is probably the reason I don't see it getting much use. If you want to breath water, Water Breathing is only 1 level higher, a ritual, non-concentration, lasts longer, and effects the whole party.

If you want a magical melee attack, Magic Weapon is the same level and lets you do at least as much (average) damage (when combined with your regular weapon attack). Same level, same duration.

Alter Self isn't a bad spell. It's just that there are other spells that can do everything it does, but are all better at that thing. I guess it's got good flexibility, though.

I'll have to strongly disagree on this.

Alter Self is much, much better than Disguise Self and totally worth the concentration. Three reasons to that.
1. Disguise Self auto-fails any physical inspection or "close look", because it justs "makes you look like". In a way, it could be argued even worse than using a disguise kit...

2. Alter Self is much wider in possibilities, since it allows also to change height and weight (only limitation is "keep basic form and size category") on top of everything allowed in Disguise Self.

3. Biggest thing: as an action you can freely change up to everything in your alteration while the spell lasts (in addition to allowing to completely change the option).

This makes it an invaluable spell for a spy or other kind of mischiever, at least until/unless you start going against factions that heavily use magic and as such also know how to see through most tactics based on it.

I often take it on a Sorcerer that I build as a spy, and I very often pick it on an Arcane Trickster.

[ZorroGames]

Tenser's Floating Disk.

So few games use encumbrance in a meaningful way.

Our Wizard uses it every game. He (player)/she (character) uses it even though our DM handwaves encumbrance. Role Player mindset with an eight strength character?

[NNescio]

Our Wizard uses it every game. He (player)/she (character) uses it even though our DM handwaves encumbrance. Role Player mindset with an eight strength character?

Why walk when you can float around in style?

(And not needing to lug around stuff, that too. Useful when you need to haul around lots of loot, especially things the DM didn't expect to count as loot [hacked off Adamantine door sections being an old classic]. Can also be weaponized by a creative player.)

[HiveStriker]

Our Wizard uses it every game. He (player)/she (character) uses it even though our DM handwaves encumbrance. Role Player mindset with an eight strength character?
Or gentfulness to carry a friend so the latter can take a short rest while party advances... :)

[ZorroGames]

Or gentfulness to carry a friend so the latter can take a short rest while party advances... :)

Yeah... no, that has never happened!

[micahaphone]

Across multiple campaigns my friend group loves Tenser's floating disk. Caster rides on a mount, making a zero weight wagon for the injured allies or loot. Someone can do downtime activities like resting or scribing because it's a smooth even ride, or one time our party bypassed a good chunk of a dangerous volcano path when the wizard with spider climbing slippers ferried us across the lava while walking on the walls.


Because we're mentioning our anecdotal experience, I have never seen anyone cast Absorb Elements. I know it's highly recommended, maybe the casters in my parties feel they don't see elemental damage often enough to take it.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Yeah... no, that has never happened!

It happens a lot if you are in a party with a lot short rest classes.

But if you have a portable hole it works better (just make sure to open it every few minutes to refresh the air).


You can also make a disk train with 2-3 casting if only one member is capable of flight to pass a river.

[Chronos]

Step 1: Gnome wizard casts Tenser's Floating Disk.
Step 2: Half-orc barbarian ties gnome to end of 10' pole.
Step 3: Half-orc sits on Disk, and holds pole.
Step 4: ???

But yeah, Weird has to be up there. It's the highest level, so most casters will never even get the chance to try to cast it. And even if you can, it sucks.

[Fuzzy Logic]

Detect traps should be pretty high up in the least used category.

Our cleric cast that once. We had to stop the game so we could all have a rant about how it was a serious contender for worst spell in the game.

[Witty Username]

Lightning bolt is probably the spell I feel most sorry for, I almost never take it because of how often fireball is better.

[JumboWheat01]

I always liked Lightning Bolt over Fireball. But then again, I have a weird fascination for Line/Wall spells over other types of AoE.

[Sniccups]

Alter Self. Witchbolt. Secret Chest. Detect Poison and Disease. Calm Emotions.

Not all horrible spells, but I've never seen anyone use them.

You've seriously never seen anyone use Alter Self? (My group generally doesn't use it for combat, just for roleplaying purposes.)

Unrelated: What's with Weird? Is there any reason to use it? Are there any other 9th level illusions?

[Eldariel]

It's right up there with Imprisonment. It's a decent plot devise, but no 17+ party I've ever seen would waste the time and expense on using it when killing the target will be 9/10 easier to do.

Killed enemies of any relevance are 100% to get resurrected on higher levels though. Much harder to free an imprisoned, permapolymorphed newt.

[Guy Lombard-O]

You've seriously never seen anyone use Alter Self? (My group generally doesn't use it for combat, just for roleplaying purposes.)

Unrelated: What's with Weird? Is there any reason to use it? Are there any other 9th level illusions?

Never. Not once.

I'm not saying it's a bad spell or anything. And HiveStriker provided a rousing defense of it as an infiltration spell. I guess I've always seen people handle such situations with disguise self and invisibility instead.

[Sigreid]

Killed enemies of any relevance are 100% to get resurrected on higher levels though. Much harder to free an imprisoned, permapolymorphed newt.

That's why you need a hellfire iron weapon to not just kill them but turn them into the lowest of devils.

[Luccan]

I could see Alter Self getting more use on a gish in a game with few magic items. It's an adaptable spell, but that Concentration is rough.

Edit: Also, probably a better option than Disguise Self for a Sorcerer, in the long run, since it does have more utility.

[Willie the Duck]

Unrelated: What's with Weird? Is there any reason to use it? Are there any other 9th level illusions?

Weird is an odd one (self-evident, I suppose). It's a high level Illusionist spell from back in 1e AD&D -- back when there were not specialists of every school, but instead exactly two (2) classes in the Magic User bracket: Magic User (wizard by today's standards), and Illusionist. They each had separate, not-all-that-overlapping spell lists, and at upper levels, there was something of a dearth of good ideas (particularly when some things we now think of as iconic illusion spells were already Magic User spells which happened to be in the illusion school).

The spell, came out in the book Unearthed Arcana (1e's Xanathar-like book), and read like this:

"Weird [1e]
Level: 7 [highest for illusionists]
Range: 3"
Duration: Special
Area of Effect: 2" radius
Components: I! S
Casting Time: 7 segments
Saving Throw: Special
Explanation/Description: When this spell is cast the illusionist must be able to converse with the subject or subjects to bring the dweomer
into being. During the casting, the illusionist must call out to the subject or subjects, informing one or all that their final fate, indeed their
doom, now is upon them. The force of the magic is such that even if the subject or subjects make their saving throw, fear will paralyze
them for a full 7 segments, and they will lose from 1-4 strength points from this fear, although the lost strength will return in 7 rounds. Failure to save versus spell will cause the subject or subjects to face their nemesis, the opponent(s) most feared and inimical to them. Actual combat must then take place, for no magical means of escape will be possible. The foe fought is real for all intents and purposes. If the subject or subjects lose, then death occurs. If the weird caused by the dweomer is slain, then the subject or subjects emerge with no damage, no loss of items seemingly used in the combat, and no loss of spells likewise seemingly expended. The characters gain experience for defeating the weird if applicable. Although each round of combat seems normal, it takes but 1 segment of real time. During the course
of the spell, the illusionist must concentrate fully upon maintaining it."

So... pretty much a high-level version of Phantasmal Forces/Killer, but with an even-more-odious concentration mechanic. I can see why they didn't keep it as-is. What it is now is clearly under-tuned for the level, which is unfortunate, and I also suspect finding a high-level illusion spell is the primary reason.

[Eldariel]

Alter Self was the first level 2 spell my Wizard learnt. He needs disguise & water breathing and that handily solved both.

[Flashkannon]

I have never, despite being in a level 20 campaign where our DM throws enemy spellcasters of similar or higher level at us, ever seen anyone actually cast Time Stop. It seems... way too niche in its powered-down form, for being the ability to actually stop time.

[Luccan]

I have never, despite being in a level 20 campaign where our DM throws enemy spellcasters of similar or higher level at us, ever seen anyone actually cast Time Stop. It seems... way too niche in its powered-down form, for being the ability to actually stop time.

Yeah, not actually being able to take advantage of the stopped time except to buff yourself or run feels like it misses the mark.

I've never seen nor do I imagine a player casting Wish to achieve any effect other than lower-level spells unless they were in what was expected to be the absolute last fight of the game. It just isn't worth the risk, especially if you aren't a Wizard (who could actually learn more 9ths to replace it before level up)

[micahaphone]

I have never, despite being in a level 20 campaign where our DM throws enemy spellcasters of similar or higher level at us, ever seen anyone actually cast Time Stop. It seems... way too niche in its powered-down form, for being the ability to actually stop time.


It's a good BBEG spell to have, it lets them escape when the party has interrupted the ritual and killed their second in command. Classic evil wizard shenanigans. For extra evilness, let them cast a modified Glyph of Warding or Symbol on the ground as a part of it. A final parting taunt.

[Sniccups]

(snip)
So... pretty much a high-level version of Phantasmal Forces/Killer, but with an even-more-odious concentration mechanic. I can see why they didn't keep it as-is. What it is now is clearly under-tuned for the level, which is unfortunate, and I also suspect finding a high-level illusion spell is the primary reason.

For a high-level illusion... why not something like Microcosm?

[Chronos]

Alter Self does have some advantages over Disguise Self, but also some disadvantages: The former changes only you, not your clothing or equipment. You can make your face look like that of a noble courtier, but you'll be a noble courtier wearing dirty, tattered armor and a leather backpack.

I think that the biggest problem with the original version of Weird was, first, in figuring out just what the target's greatest fear is, and second, how to have a combat with it. Sure, if someone's dracophobic, then you throw the nastiest dragon in the book at them (it is the greatest fear, after all). But that's not really very fair, compared to the guy who's afraid of spiders. And what about the immortality-seeking wizard whose greatest fear is old age?

[Willie the Duck]

For a high-level illusion... why not something like Microcosm?

As suggestion for high level illusions? Sure, why not? I'm not trying to explain why other high level illusions don't exist in the PHB, but why Weird exists (it's been an iconic spell for 34 years, coming in at the same time as Alarm, [Mage] Armor, Ceremony, Contingency, Dust Devil, Evard's Black Tentacles, Goodberry, Grease. Spike Growth, Tasha's [Uncontrollable] Hideous Laughter, and Cantrips as a concept), and why they decided it needed a new what-it-does (the original one is basically a save-or-die version of 5e's Phantasmal Force plus Phantasmal Killer, with a Strength penalty instead of frightened condition as a rider).

Overall, as a spell, 5e's Weird isn't bad per se as a concept, just really under-tuned. At a lower level, or in a different version of the game (where everything else was less powerful as well), it wouldn't be bad. It's kind of like Scorching Ray (which does the same damage as an up-cast Magic Missile, just with a to-hit roll, so only really good if fighting someone who has Shield prepared or is immune to force :smalltongue:) -- I think it just never got it's bolt's re-tightened after they'd gone around and balanced everything else.


I think that the biggest problem with the original version of Weird was, first, in figuring out just what the target's greatest fear is, and second, how to have a combat with it. Sure, if someone's dracophobic, then you throw the nastiest dragon in the book at them (it is the greatest fear, after all). But that's not really very fair, compared to the guy who's afraid of spiders. And what about the immortality-seeking wizard whose greatest fear is old age?

Too much adjudication, and running a separate mini-combat in the middle of another combat sounds like a great way to draw out a fight (kinda the same reason they've moved away from a separate psion-vs-psion side-combat).

[Sniccups]

As suggestion for high level illusions? Sure, why not? I'm not trying to explain why other high level illusions don't exist in the PHB, but why Weird exists (it's been an iconic spell for 34 years, coming in at the same time as Alarm, [Mage] Armor, Ceremony, Contingency, Dust Devil, Evard's Black Tentacles, Goodberry, Grease. Spike Growth, Tasha's [Uncontrollable] Hideous Laughter, and Cantrips as a concept), and why they decided it needed a new what-it-does (the original one is basically a save-or-die version of 5e's Phantasmal Force plus Phantasmal Killer, with a Strength penalty instead of frightened condition as a rider).

Overall, as a spell, 5e's Weird isn't bad per se as a concept, just really under-tuned. At a lower level, or in a different version of the game (where everything else was less powerful as well), it wouldn't be bad. It's kind of like Scorching Ray (which does the same damage as an up-cast Magic Missile, just with a to-hit roll, so only really good if fighting someone who has Shield prepared or is immune to force :smalltongue:) -- I think it just never got it's bolt's re-tightened after they'd gone around and balanced everything else.



Too much adjudication, and running a separate mini-combat in the middle of another combat sounds like a great way to draw out a fight (kinda the same reason they've moved away from a separate psion-vs-psion side-combat).

Thanks for the explanation, but did you say in there that Scorching Ray does the same damage as an upcast Magic Missile? Were you talking about 5e, or an earlier edition? In 5e you would need to cast a Magic Missile at 4th level to deal the same damage as a 2nd level Scorching Ray. (Pretty much how it should be for fire damage with a roll vs. force damage with no roll.)

[Chronos]

Eh, psionic combat was a mess because it'd come up every time you had psionicists do anything, but Weird has always been a max-level spell, and even at high-level play, those aren't very common (even less so, in earlier editions). It's OK to have a separate side-combat if it only happens occasionally.

And if you can figure out how to run that side-combat at all.

[HiveStriker]

On Weird: I used it a few times in a one-shot, although it was mainly to really test-case it in "real" situations.

I hate to say, it is indeed a spell that is too niche. The main thing I dislike with it is that all effects end on the first successful save. I would honestly have been fine if at least the frightened effect stayed for the duration and only damage was stopping, or maybe "damage until three accumulated saves"...

As it is, I see it as a nice way to succeed on challenges you could probably resolve with any 5th or 6th level spell. That's kinda frustrating.
The only point where it could be relevant would be when facing enemies (beware, long list of cumulative conditions)...
- in a large amount (like many tiny/small or mixing flying and pedestrians)
- all cluttered up in the radius (I mean, what are the odds unless you're fighting an army)
- majority having bad or decent at most Wisdom save (probably the less hard to fill condition)
- that have high enough HP a Fireball won't fit or that you don't necessary want to kill (otherwise you probably have other ways).
- in an environment you want to preserve (otherwise, before even Meteor Swarm, you have enough big area or high damaging spells).

I mean... Sadly, the next time I pick it, it will be mainly to respect a character concept...

As for TimeStop, it's more powerful than it seems, especially if you can get other people's spells or simply prepared tricks requiring magic items. There is also always the Freezing Globe tactic for some nova damage, or Delayed Blast Fireball (although this is probably not worth ^^).
The main limit is that you can still concentrate only on one spell, so many things you'd like to do with Wizard spells are still undoable.

Still, quite a few interesting things to do, for example...
- Use that time got find and go to a place in which you can cover/hide as needed and still get a good shot for long range spells.
- On the contrary, get close and dirty using Dash to get into range for a Hold/Dominate Monster or other good spell with 60 / 90 feet range.
- Set up better fighting conditions by buffing yourself with Mirror Image, Crown of Stars, then unleashing a Slow / Hypnotic Pattern to end while giving a nice surprise to your friends, or maybe using Bones of Earth (or a concentration wall) *behind* a group of enemies to cut their retreat while also offering cover from further enemies.
- And of course, just setting up a runaway by using Expeditious Retreat / Fly then Dashing for your life (not sure whether 9th + 1st is better than multiple 2nd/3rd level or a single 4th / 5th level though). XD


Technically, you could even use a Conjure spell, because at the time of casting, you don't affect other creatures. And then you don't need to use any action to give them orders. So you can conjure them, and use the remaining round(s) to set up a strategy. :)

[Willie the Duck]

Thanks for the explanation, but did you say in there that Scorching Ray does the same damage as an upcast Magic Missile? Were you talking about 5e, or an earlier edition? In 5e you would need to cast a Magic Missile at 4th level to deal the same damage as a 2nd level Scorching Ray. (Pretty much how it should be for fire damage with a roll vs. force damage with no roll.)

D'oh, factored in a presumed hit-chance in my math there. :smalltongue:

[Sigreid]

Thanks for the explanation, but did you say in there that Scorching Ray does the same damage as an upcast Magic Missile? Were you talking about 5e, or an earlier edition? In 5e you would need to cast a Magic Missile at 4th level to deal the same damage as a 2nd level Scorching Ray. (Pretty much how it should be for fire damage with a roll vs. force damage with no roll.)

Magic missile is a spell I almost always have prepared. Sometimes you just need damage to happen and very few critters are resistant to force damage, topped off with you can cast it from any slot you still have available.

[Sniccups]

Magic missile is a spell I almost always have prepared. Sometimes you just need damage to happen and very few critters are resistant to force damage, topped off with you can cast it from any slot you still have available.

One of my campaigns has a running joke that whenever any monster tries to run away at low health, our wizard will just kill it with Magic Missile.

[Eldariel]

One of my campaigns has a running joke that whenever any monster tries to run away at low health, our wizard will just kill it with Magic Missile.

We actually have this tendency to never miss fleeing enemies so it doesn't matter if a roll is involved, if it's running away, for some reason dice will always kill it. It's been that way since our very first campaign with this group in like 2004.

[Guy Lombard-O]

Alter Self does have some advantages over Disguise Self, but also some disadvantages: The former changes only you, not your clothing or equipment. You can make your face look like that of a noble courtier, but you'll be a noble courtier wearing dirty, tattered armor and a leather backpack.

And the disadvantage I really don't like: if your infiltration gambit breaks down and leads to combat (which with my group is actually the norm instead of the exception...sigh), with Disguise Self you never end up showing your true self to the guards or whoever. Having a non-concentration disguise which stays up when the poop hits the fan is better for a group which regularly fails at the more delicate missions of the game. It's pretty rare that somebody in my parties doesn't **** it all up.

[Willie the Duck]

Magic missile is a spell I almost always have prepared. Sometimes you just need damage to happen and very few critters are resistant to force damage, topped off with you can cast it from any slot you still have available.

Yeah, but he was talking about my math. We have a running thing in my group about how, if you miss with 1 of your 3 rays, scorching ray does the same damage as the Magic Missile you almost certainly have memorized (for the reasons you, Sniccups, and Eldariel mentioned). I just forgot about that caveat being presumed in the math, and mentioned it separate.

Honestly speaking, all of the low-mid direct damage non-cantrips other than Magic Missile and Fireball are on the rarely-used list, at least in my groups (I should say 'for wizards/sorcerers,' as the Tempest Cleric or Bard will have Shatter, and so forth).

[ZorroGames]

Yeah, but he was talking about my math. We have a running thing in my group about how, if you miss with 1 of your 3 rays, scorching ray does the same damage as the Magic Missile you almost certainly have memorized (for the reasons you, Sniccups, and Eldariel mentioned). I just forgot about that caveat being presumed in the math, and mentioned it separate.

Honestly speaking, all of the low-mid direct damage non-cantrips other than Magic Missile and Fireball are on the rarely-used list, at least in my groups (I should say 'for wizards/sorcerers,' as the Tempest Cleric or Bard will have Shatter, and so forth).

Played with some AL groups where they assumed a 15 minute day and dumped everything early on. When I DMed sometimes it was fun to watch the casters using Cantrips exclusively from the opening rounds of a third or fourth combat encounter. I was not cruel but camping out in a hallway or a lair in a dungeon has a decent chance of drawing the wrong kind of attention.

[Sigreid]

Yeah, but he was talking about my math. We have a running thing in my group about how, if you miss with 1 of your 3 rays, scorching ray does the same damage as the Magic Missile you almost certainly have memorized (for the reasons you, Sniccups, and Eldariel mentioned). I just forgot about that caveat being presumed in the math, and mentioned it separate.

Honestly speaking, all of the low-mid direct damage non-cantrips other than Magic Missile and Fireball are on the rarely-used list, at least in my groups (I should say 'for wizards/sorcerers,' as the Tempest Cleric or Bard will have Shatter, and so forth).

Yeah, I was just adding to the reasons MM would be memorized. And my evoker uses shatter a lot.