I need help for leveling up my animal

[Laharal]

Hi! I'm playing a druid in D and D 3.5 and my Dm and I are a little bit confused with my animal companion. I make a list of 4 points on which I am confused.

My wolf is now level 6 with +4 bonus HD thus giving a +2 difference compared to levels 3 to 5. (+2 HD) (p.36 PHB)

A)IF I understand well I should throw two 8 sided dices and add these numbers to my wolf's hp, thus giving a max + 16 right?

b) How do I calculate the skill points for my wolf when it levels up? Do I throw 2 d8 +int?

c) Does it get bonus feats at 1st, 3rd, 6th and 9th Hit dice like for monsters (p.291 Monster Manual) and from which feats can I choose? Is there a restriction?

d) When the PHB p. 36 under [I]Animal companion basics/ Bonus HD[I] says: « Remember that extra hit dice improve the animal companion's base attack bonus and base save bonus» Do I add +2 to BAB and Base save because at each new stage, thus giving a total +4 BAB to my wolf because it is now level 6 or do I proceed otherwise?

Please help me because I'm quite confused and I want to have the companion I'm supposed to have ;) Many thanks in advance,

[triforcel]

First of all, your wolf doesn't have levels, only hit dice.

A) Correct, but don't forget to add your wolf's con modifier to it's hit dice.

B) As an Animal, your wolf gets 2+Int skill points per hit die it has.

C) I am reasonably certain that this is true. You can choose any feat that your wolf meets the prerequisite for.

D) Your wolf gets saves and base attack dependant on it's hit dice. It's base attack bonus is equivalent to that of a cleric with levels equivalent to the wolves hit dice, and it's saves are good for Fortitude and Reflex, but poor for Will.

Finally, having four or more hit dice increases your wolf's size from medium to large which has the following effects. +8 Strength, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 Natural Armor, and -1 to AC and attack due to it's size.

Hope this helps.

[Hunter Noventa]

C) I am reasonably certain that this is true. You can choose any feat that your wolf meets the prerequisite for.


Which, in a disturbing twist, means that your wolf qualifies for Marital Sutdy and can learn a first or second level manuver by taking that feat.

This is a little disgusting and should not be done.

[AslanCross]

Hi! I'm playing a druid in D and D 3.5 and my Dm and I are a little bit confused with my animal companion. I make a list of 4 points on which I am confused.

My wolf is now level 6 with +4 bonus HD thus giving a +2 difference compared to levels 3 to 5. (+2 HD) (p.36 PHB)

A)IF I understand well I should throw two 8 sided dices and add these numbers to my wolf's hp, thus giving a max + 16 right?
Add constitution modifiers too. The wolf has 15 CON, giving it an extra 2 HP per hit die.



b) How do I calculate the skill points for my wolf when it levels up? Do I throw 2 d8 +int? Woah, you don't roll for skill points. Since the Wolf is an animal and has low INT, it only gains 1 skill point per hit die.



c) Does it get bonus feats at 1st, 3rd, 6th and 9th Hit dice like for monsters (p.291 Monster Manual) and from which feats can I choose? Is there a restriction? It gains feats every 3 HD as any other creature does. The only restrictions are the actual feat prerequisites, so a wolf can't get Combat Expertise since its base Int is 2, while Combat Expertise requires 13 INT.



d) When the PHB p. 36 under [I]Animal companion basics/ Bonus HD[I] says: « Remember that extra hit dice improve the animal companion's base attack bonus and base save bonus» Do I add +2 to BAB and Base save because at each new stage, thus giving a total +4 BAB to my wolf because it is now level 6 or do I proceed otherwise? The wolf's base HD is 2. Adding 4 HD from the animal companion effect, it ends up at 6 HD. Animals gain BAB at a rate of 3/4 of their HD, so it would have +4 BAB. It gains good Fortitude and Reflex saves, so its Base saves increase to Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +2. Then apply ability modifiers.


EDIT: Ninja'd. Btw, no, animal companions, paladin mounts and familiars do NOT increase in size from HD increases.

[Josh the Aspie]

I was under the impression that HD added to an animal companion by druid levels didn't increase size according to the normal progression.

What, only house cats get to learn maneuvers?

Oh, and don't forget that since your creature only has a single attack (it's bite), you get to add 1 & 1/2 times it's strength bonus to damage rolls. (srd (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#damage))

[triforcel]

I've never seen anything to say that the animal companion doesn't increase in size as normal. In fact it's one of the reasons that wolves are favored by most of the people I play with because the improved size makes the wolf even better at tripping and keeping opponents on the ground.

[MrNexx]

Animal companions don't increase in size. Their bonus HD are more on par with your character becoming more skilled than them becoming larger. A larger wolf is one that is simply large to start with.

[AslanCross]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070206a

To quote:

The animal companion gains extra Hit Dice as noted in the table on page 36 of the Player's Handbook. The companion gains the full benefit from increased Hit Dice, including increased base attack, base saves, skill points, and feats. The animal companion, however, does not increase in size (any more than you do when adding Hit Dice for your class levels).

[Laharal]

Ok so if I understand AslanCroos answer and Triforcel 's answers are equivalent concerning BAB growth right?

So if I get it the BAB for a 17tht wolf would be its initial +1 + 9 because 2HD (initial)+ 10 bonus HD= 12HD which refers to 12th level druid BAB=+9

Am I correct?



And when AslanCroos says :«it only gains 1 skill point per hit die.» It means that a 17tht level wolf would get a + 12 skills points because it has 12 hd right?

Many thanks to all of you, I might recalculate evrything and post the results this week for a confirmation ;)) Many thanks again ;)

[Josh the Aspie]

When your wolf and your druid have equal HD (at even levels) their BAB will match.

Animals have the same BAB progression as a druid, cleric, rouge or the like.

So a 12th level druid will have a BAB of 12 * 3 / 4 = 9, and the wolf will have a BAB of 12 * 3 / 4 = 9.

[Laharal]

Ok so the the 3/4 thing is a math rule for clerics/druids and the like. I didn't know that thanks ;) really... This forum is super cool.... so many people willing to share!

[Josh the Aspie]

^_^ Glad to help.

And oh, always remember to round down when doing fractional BABs like that.

Wizards and Sorcerers get 1/2 their BAB. So it only goes up at every even level.

[Laharal]

Ok here come the big numbers. If anyone notices any discrepencies with what it should be, let me know and show the explanation and/or a reference.

Damocles (wolf) Class level : 6th Hd:6 (initial 2 +4)

Str 15/Dex 17/ Con 15/ Int 2/Wis 12/ Cha 6

Armor class: 19= 10 +3 (dex mod)+ 6 natural armor (initial 2 plus 4)

Base save Fort 5/ Reflex 5/ Wis 2
Saving throws Fort 7 (5 +2 con mod) Reflex 8 ( 5 +3 dex mod) Will 3 (2 +1 wis mod)

BAB: +4 because same as 6th level druid

Attack roll bonus with a bite attack +10 : BAB +4, Weapon focus +1, Str mod +2, Bite +3 melee

Damage roll bonus with a bite attack: +4 Weapon Focus +1, Str mod +2, Bite is 1d6 +1.

HP: 62? ( Take note that all HP rolls have been maxed out)

Initial 22: (2x8 (on roll)) +4 , +2 for Con bonus (is there an initial con mod on hp?

6th level 40: (+4 bonus HD: 4x8 (onroll)=32) + (8 for 4HDx 2 con mod)

Skill points to be spent 4: (4HDx1) + NO int mod because its an animal.

Feats: Im ok with them.

You all deserve a cup of coffee...thanks guys!!!! :smallwink:

[AslanCross]

The monster's default HP (as you see it in the monster manual) is already modified with its CON bonus, just that it's given average HP instead of rolled HP.

Btw, the damage on your wolf's bite should get a +3 bonus due to it being the only natural weapon it has (x1.5 STR modifier).

[adanedhel9]

Just a few clarifications...



Attack roll bonus with a bite attack +10 : BAB +4, Weapon focus +1, Str mod +2, Bite +3 melee

Damage roll bonus with a bite attack: +4 Weapon Focus +1, Str mod +2, Bite is 1d6 +1.



I don't think you quite got this right. It looks like you added stuff onto the existing bite, which already takes into account some of those things.

Attack bonus = +7 (BAB +4; Weapon Focus +1; Str +2)
Damage roll = 1d6+3 (1d6 for the bite; Str x1.5 = 3; weapon focus doesn't apply to damage)




HP: 62? ( Take note that all HP rolls have been maxed out)

Initial 22: (2x8 (on roll)) +4 , +2 for Con bonus (is there an initial con mod on hp?

6th level 40: (+4 bonus HD: 4x8 (onroll)=32) + (8 for 4HDx 2 con mod)



The +4 on the inital HP is from your Con modifier (2HD x +2 = +4); you don't have to add it in again. So the wolf should only have 60 hp (assuming max hp).




Skill points to be spent 4: (4HDx1) + NO int mod because its an animal.



Right result, but wrong reason. Animals get 2+Int mod skill points at every level, just like a fighter. But since its Int score is so low, 2+Int mod is actually a negative number. However, all creatures with minds gain at least 1 skill point per level, regardless of Int score.

[Laharal]

But for attack roll, doesn't the BAB +4 stacks with the +3 of the bite attack?
adanedhel9 if you could provide a reason, it will certainly enlighten me.

Aslan, what is your view on that? Were my calculation correct?

[Josh the Aspie]

All a wolf's bite does, before taking bonuses into account, is 1d6 damage, with a +0 bonus to attack. That is the basic bite for a medium sized creature.

From there, you add bonuses you get from other sources. BAB gives bonuses to hit. So do weapon focus and strength. The only source of bonuses to damage (other than feats) is strength. You get to add 1 & 1/2 times your strength to damage on it.

Also, you don't add the various total bonuses we've listed to the wolf out of no-where. Some of the bonuses we list already include bonuses the wolf stats have already taken into account.

If you were going to level your druid up from level 2, to level 4, you wouldn't add the BAB listed for level 4 to the BAB listed at level 2, would you? No, it gets replaced, because that's the total BAB bonus the druid gets at that level.

So when you level your wolf, treat it like you would any character you're adding levels to. You first figure out what bonuses the wolf has. You figure out what those bonuses increase to at the HD the wolf gets to. Then you replace the old bonuses with the new bonuses. This is one reason why druids are so paperwork heavy. At every odd level you work out your new number of spells per day. At every even level you have to level up your Animal companion in addition to leveling up your druid.

I'm grabbing a copy of the wolf's stats, and I'll try to walk you though the process in my next post.

[Josh the Aspie]

Here are the basic wolf stats. I'll work from there.


Wolf
Size/Type: Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 2d8+4 (13 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+2 Dex, +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+2
Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+1)
Full Attack: Bite +3 melee (1d6+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +5, Will +1
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills: Hide +2, Listen +3, Move Silently +3, Spot +3, Survival +1*
Feats: Track, Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Temperate forests
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pack (7-16)
Challenge Rating: 1
Advancement: 3 HD (Medium); 4-6 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —

Wolves are pack hunters known for their persistence and cunning.
Combat

A favorite tactic is to send a few individuals against the foe’s front while the rest of the pack circles and attacks from the flanks or rear.
Trip (Ex)

A wolf that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent (+1 check modifier) as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the wolf.
Skills

*Wolves have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent.


Because of your druid levels, the wolf's HD are boosted +4. There are other benefits, but let's deal with them later.

That means that the wolf's HD is now 6d8+12. The +12 represents the +2 bonus to HP per level or HD.

If all HP is maxed, even for animal companions, then the wolf gets 6*8 + 12 = 60 HP. If animal companions get average HP, that'd be 6 * (8+1) / 2 + 12 = 3*9+12 = 27+12 = 39 hp.

Initiative stays the same unless dex increases (we'll deal with that later)

Speed will remain constant at 50 ft

Armor class doesn't change based on HD

The wolf's Base attack becomes +4, which boosts the grapple bonus to +5, since the grapple bonus is the Base Attack bonus + your strength modifier. So +4 + 1 = +5.

Now let's handle the wolf's bite attack. There are two things to calculate. The bonus to hit, and the damage you do if you hit.

The Bonus to hit is BAB + strength + weapon focus. That gives you 4 + 1 + 1 = +6

The damage is 1d6 + strength *1 1/2 (round down) = 1d6 + 1

Since your wolf only gets that one attack, you list "Bite +6 melee (1d6+1)" for both Attack, and full attack.

Space/Reach, Special Attacks, and Special Qualities all stay the same based on HD alone.

Now, saves change based on HD. Saves are Base Save bonus + Attribute.

Con and Dex are both 15 in the above stats. So Reflex and Fortitude saves have base save bonuses of +3, meaning that these are good saves. Wisdom is +1, so the wolf's base save is +0, meaning the wolf gets a poor will save progression.

This is typical for animals, but there are a few exceptions, so we needed to check.

Now, Based on HD, and the "good" progression, the Base saves for the wolf become +5 for fort and reflex. A 6 HD character with poor will save progression gives a +2 base will save.

So now we add up the saves.

Base + Attribute
Fort: +5 + 2 = +7
Reflex: +5 + 2 = +7
Will: +2 + 1 = +3

For skills, you get to pick 1 skill point per additional HD. Animals get 2+int per level, but because int is so low, that calculation would result in negative skills per. Any being gains a minimum of 1 skill point per level / hd. So you get to add 4 skill points. Since the cap on skill points goes up by 1 for each HD, you can spend them any way you want on skills the wolf already has. If you spend them on any other skill, it is a cross class skill. You might considering spending 2, in order to let it understand (but not speak) common on a basic level. But other than that, you're probably better off just adding them all to the skill you like the wolf having the most (like maybe survival, for tracking).

For feats, the wolf has gone from 2 HD to 6 HD, so you should add in the 3rd HD feat, and the 6th HD feat, granting your wolf 2 more feats of your choice, so long as it meets the pre-requisites.

The rest of the information is superfluous to an animal companion, except that some DMs want to keep track of what kind of habitat the animal is originally from, so leave in it's habitat/terrain type.

That gives us the stat block below.



Wolf
Size/Type: Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 6d8+12 (39 hp or 60 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+2 Dex, +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+5
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+1)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +3
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills: Hide +2, Listen +3, Move Silently +3, Spot +3, Survival +1*
Feats: Track, Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Temperate forests

Wolves are pack hunters known for their persistence and cunning.
Combat

A favorite tactic is to send a few individuals against the foe’s front while the rest of the pack circles and attacks from the flanks or rear.
Trip (Ex)

A wolf that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent (+1 check modifier) as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the wolf.
Skills

*Wolves have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent.


But you still need to add 4 skill points, and 2 feats.

Now, there are other bonuses your wolf gets from your wolf levels. He gets an increase of +4 to Natural armor, +2 Strength and Dex, 3 extra ticks you can teach him, and the abilities of link, share spells, evasion, and devotion. Also, while I neglected to mention it earlier, you get a +1 bonus to one of your wolf's attributes due to HD #4. Since we'll be working with stats in this step, I thought it would be simpler to combine them.

I personally recommend that you boost your Wolf's strength or constitution stat.

Strength will let it hit better, hit harder, and trip better too. But every 2 levels your druid gets from here on out, it'll get a +1 bonus to strength. So your wolf's strength bonus will only be higher than it would be if you didn't put the strength bonus in.

For example. At level 8, it's strength would go up to 16 without the bump, and 17 with the bump. So at levels 8 and 9, there's no benefit from the strength bump.

Constitution, on the other hand, gets no bonus from your druid levels. If you give the wolf a bump there, it'll always have 1 more HP per level, and a +1 higher bonus to it's fortitude saving throw, as well as having better con checks when that matters. After you've added the con in the first time, you could add your bonuses to strength.

Still, since your druid can find a new animal companion if this wolf dies, in cold analysis, it's probably better to boost strength. I'll leave that up to you, though.

Now then. Let's see what the new stats are first, before the bump.

Abilities: Str 15, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6

That's a +2 strength modifier instead of a +1 modifier, and a +3 dex modifier instead of a +2 dex modifier.

So let's see what stats that effects.

Initiative becomes +3, instead of +2

You have a better armor class.
10 + 3 Dex, +6 natural = 19
Touch AC is 10 + 3 = 13
Flat Footed AC is 10 + 6 = 16

Your strength bonus is now +2, so grapple becomes
+4 BAB + 2 Str = +6

And you get bonuses to your attack.

Attack = 4 bab + 2 strength + 1 weapon focus = +7
Damage = 1d6 + 1 1/2 * strength = 1d6 + 6

So attack and full attack become
Bite +7 melee (1d6+3)

Hide and move silently get bonuses based on dex, and become
Hide +3, Move Silently +4
because the bonus from dex increases by 1.

Now, the rest of the abilities (besides the tricks) get added to special qualities, which becomes...

Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, link, share spells, evasion, devotion

So your wolf's stats become....



Wolf
Size/Type: Medium Animal
Hit Dice: 6d8+12 (39 hp or 60 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 19 (+3 Dex, +6 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 116
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+6
Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d6+3)
Full Attack: Bite +7 melee (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Trip
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +3
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills: Hide +3, Listen +3, Move Silently +4, Spot +3, Survival +1*
Feats: Track, Weapon Focus (bite)
Environment: Temperate forests

Wolves are pack hunters known for their persistence and cunning.
Combat

A favorite tactic is to send a few individuals against the foe’s front while the rest of the pack circles and attacks from the flanks or rear.
Trip (Ex)

A wolf that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent (+1 check modifier) as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the wolf.
Skills

*Wolves have a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent.


You still have 1 ability point, 4 skill points, 2 feats, and 3 bonus tricks to distribute. That leaves you with a total of 9 tricks.

I recommend that at a minimum you use up 2 tricks on the attack trick (so you can tell it to attack anything you want it too), one on track, and one on down (in case you change your mind about the attack).

If you're small sized, and intend to ride the animal, round it out with tricks that come with a war-steed, which are attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. I've already listed attack, and down.

Come and heel are nice for getting your companion into spooooky places they normally wouldn't go.

[Laharal]

Wow! Many thanks for the guide!

However, theres is still 1 thing that I don't get: why don't BAB and the bite
+3 melee do not stack together.

I'll show you my process, tell me were I'm wrong. Also, other people's opinions on the subject are welcome because it will help to strenghten the solution.

Okay, at 1st level, my wolf only gets a BAB of 1
Bite is listed as melee+3, so I add +3 on the attack roll from the attack +1 BAB= +4 bonus on attack rolls right?(+5 with weapon focus)

Later on, when my wolf is at level 6 granting him a +4 BAB, he still has the one and only bite +3 melee: 4+3= 7, add in the weapon focus and the STR bonus and I get at +10.

So, if you tell me that the final number is +7 like in your reply instead of +10, it means that the +3 melee is overrided by the +4 BAB, and in that case, I don't understand why........ Don't worry, after that detail solved I'll be able to tame a wolf pack..

Thanks to all, and the second round of coffee is on me ! :smallbiggrin:

[Fizban]

Because the +3 comes from other things. +1 from the BAB of 2 animal hit dice, +1 from weapon focus, and +1 from strength modifier. If you add "bit +3" to the other numbers, you're getting twice as much BAB, strength, and weapon focus as you're supposed to.

So the breakdown is:

Standard wolf.
Bite +3 melee, 1d6+1
The +3 is broken into +1 from BAB, +1 from weapon focus, and +1 from strength. The +3 you see in the stat block is the total you could find yourself from it's other listed stats, it's there for convenience.

When you advance the wolf, it's BAB increases, but that already includes the +1 from when it was normal. Just like with a character, when you go from BAB +1 to BAB +2, you don't get a total of +3 to attack. The strength bonus is replaced in the same way when the wolf's strength increases, and weapon focus only applies once as well.

[Laharal]

Because the +3 comes from other things. +1 from the BAB of 2 animal hit dice, +1 from weapon focus, and +1 from strength modifier. If you add "bit +3" to the other numbers, you're getting twice as much BAB, strength, and weapon focus as you're supposed to.

So the breakdown is:

Standard wolf.
Bite +3 melee, 1d6+1
The +3 is broken into +1 from BAB, +1 from weapon focus, and +1 from strength. The +3 you see in the stat block is the total you could find yourself from it's other listed stats, it's there for convenience.

When you advance the wolf, it's BAB increases, but that already includes the +1 from when it was normal. Just like with a character, when you go from BAB +1 to BAB +2, you don't get a total of +3 to attack. The strength bonus is replaced in the same way when the wolf's strength increases, and weapon focus only applies once as well.


Oh no what is that! It is too bright! It is the light of truth!!!! I'm enlighthened!

Many many thanks to all of ye!!! :smallsmile: