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View Full Version : Afraid vs "Frightened"



Xeko
2019-12-09, 12:44 AM
So a party member is an Oath of Conquest paladin. Oath of Conquest gets Aura of Conquest, which has several deleterious effects to people who are frightened of you within a certain range. The question is; how does that play out outside of combat? If, during a social interaction, if for example, some snooty noble's son is berating the party, intentionally egging us on in an attempt to provoke unlawful action from us, and in so doing, they learn that the party is actually the local heroes who literally have a license to kill, and therefore their goal of starting a bar fight to get us arrested for the fun of it will not work... and they instantly start wetting themselves... would our paladin inadvertently kill the little weasels, just by standing there? The Aura is stated in its description to be constant, it's not something he can choose to turn off or on. So how does it effect social interactions?

So far I've been saying it doesn't, and justifying that by the assumption that there's a difference between the Frightened condition and merely being afraid. The Frightened condition being something applied by a magic spell or supernatural ability, while afraid is a general emotion. But then the player asked about Intimidation rolls. And I didn't really have an answer to that one. So, what do you guys think? Is there some official distinction between "frightened" and afraid, or am I just pulling that out of nowhere? And, how would that apply to intimidation rolls, which are decidedly not supernatural or magical?

Jerrykhor
2019-12-09, 12:51 AM
What about Intimidation rolls? They don't apply Frighten status either. So what does that got to do with anything?

Greywander
2019-12-09, 01:42 AM
There's a number of spells and abilities that specifically cause the frightened condition. This doesn't mean you couldn't allow it with a successful Intimidation check, but it does mean you should balance any houserule against existing rules.

I think a good example to use here is the Battle Master fighter. The BM gets special maneuvers that allow them to trip or disarm an opponent, and even gets a bonus when doing so. Does this mean a character who isn't a BM fighter can't attempt to disarm or trip an opponent? Not necessarily. However, the BM fighter has invested character resources in order to do these things effectively, so you should make sure that allowing any character to attempt these actions shouldn't overshadow the BM. For example, attempting these might use an entire action, while the BM can do so with a single attack. It might also be more difficult, perhaps requiring an ability check with a high DC, or a contested ability check followed by a saving throw from the target.

Now, for fear, there's the Cause Fear spell. It's a first level spell that lasts for one minute, uses concentration, requires a failed save, and allows the save to be repeated every round. So if you want to allow a character to make another character frightened with, say, an Intimidation check, you should be balancing it against this spell. Maybe it requires a contested ability check of your Intimidation vs. their Insight, and if they fail, then they get to make a Wisdom save. They're only frightened if they fail both, otherwise failing the contested check but not the save means they're merely shook up a bit, afraid but not terrified. Maybe it also only lasts one round, or requires you to spend your action making an Intimidation check every round to maintain it.

You might also say that a simple Intimidation check isn't enough to provoke true fear in someone. The frightened condition is more akin to full on panic rather than just being afraid. So maybe you need to do something particularly terrifying, like crushing another NPC's head with your bare hands.

Whatever you do, just make sure the character still has a reason to spend resources to cause the frightened condition, such as by casting spells or using class features. Generally, this means leveraging the action economy (e.g. requiring an action each round to maintain fear), imposing a higher risk of failure (high DC, or multiple rolls), or decreasing the potency (e.g. only lasts one round). A creature who saves against your intimidation attempt might also be immune to it for, say, 24 hours, forcing you to spend resources if you want to impose the frightened condition during that time.

Damon_Tor
2019-12-09, 11:18 AM
Non-lethal damage is a thing, and psychic damage is one of the best candidates for it anyway. The guy gets so freaked out he passes out on the floor.

Undyne
2019-12-09, 11:32 AM
So a party member is an Oath of Conquest paladin. Oath of Conquest gets Aura of Conquest, which has several deleterious effects to people who are frightened of you within a certain range. The question is; how does that play out outside of combat? If, during a social interaction, if for example, some snooty noble's son is berating the party, intentionally egging us on in an attempt to provoke unlawful action from us, and in so doing, they learn that the party is actually the local heroes who literally have a license to kill, and therefore their goal of starting a bar fight to get us arrested for the fun of it will not work... and they instantly start wetting themselves... would our paladin inadvertently kill the little weasels, just by standing there? The Aura is stated in its description to be constant, it's not something he can choose to turn off or on. So how does it effect social interactions?

So far I've been saying it doesn't, and justifying that by the assumption that there's a difference between the Frightened condition and merely being afraid. The Frightened condition being something applied by a magic spell or supernatural ability, while afraid is a general emotion. But then the player asked about Intimidation rolls. And I didn't really have an answer to that one. So, what do you guys think? Is there some official distinction between "frightened" and afraid, or am I just pulling that out of nowhere? And, how would that apply to intimidation rolls, which are decidedly not supernatural or magical?

My personal ruling is this:

"Frightened" is the condition.

There is no thing about being intimidated causing the frightened condition, but I have a personal rule.

The player makes an intimidate check against the opposing creature's passive Insight (Like passive perception, using insight instead). If the check exceeds their passive Insight+5, the intimidated creature is also frightened for an amount of time based on how much you exceeded it.

Hytheter
2019-12-09, 11:50 AM
Non-lethal damage is a thing, and psychic damage is one of the best candidates for it anyway. The guy gets so freaked out he passes out on the floor.

By RAW, non-lethal damage is only a thing for melee attacks. Everything else defaults to deadly regardless of whether you want to keep them alive.

That said, the fact that Conquest Paladins can't turn off their damaging aura strikes me as a dumb oversight from failing to consider anything except combat. Letting them tone it down so they don't kill people on accident seems sensible to me.