Price of barn, 2 cows and supply of hay for entire winter?

[Pinjata]

Heyyo!

My PCs managed to burn down a barn with supply of hay for an entire winter, plus two cows, that were inside have in the dead of night, run away into the forest.

I have a few questions:

- Is there a reason for PCs to run and go search for cows in dead of night? (I think not)

- What would the costs of barn, hay and cows be? (5e ofc)

- Can you come up with some good way for PCs to compensate for burnt down barn? Thing is, gold is okay and villagers will have new barn set up pretty soon and I'm sure PCs will be able to pay the expenses, but perhaps you guys can come up with an idea of how could PCs get on the good side of villagers again, by making some sort of a deed, that would raise their status in the eyes of villagers after unfortunate barn fire?

thanks

[Galithar]

Heyyo!

My PCs managed to burn down a barn with supply of hay for an entire winter, plus two cows, that were inside have in the dead of night, run away into the forest.

I have a few questions:

- Is there a reason for PCs to run and go search for cows in dead of night? (I think not)

- What would the costs of barn, hay and cows be? (5e ofc)

- Can you come up with some good way for PCs to compensate for burnt down barn? Thing is, gold is okay and villagers will have new barn set up pretty soon and I'm sure PCs will be able to pay the expenses, but perhaps you guys can come up with an idea of how could PCs get on the good side of villagers again, by making some sort of a deed, that would raise their status in the eyes of villagers after unfortunate barn fire?

thanks

A little info on how and why the barn got burnt down might help come up with a repayment. Also how important are those two cows to the family's livelihood? Is it a drop in the bucket or is that family going to be needing handouts from neighbors to survive winter without them? Milk and the meat from a cow can go a long way in supporting a family.

[Grim Portent]

The trade goods table lists cows as having a value of 10 gold pieces each. Hay has no listed price, but I imagine it would be very low, in the range of a few silver at most unless it was enough to feed a lot of animals, and given there being just two cows I assume it was mostly for them. There's no listed building costs for anything even similar to a barn, but it's probably not all that much. I'd probably round it off as 10 for each cow, 20 for the barn and 10 for general restitution for a total of 50gp. Maybe go as high as 100gp depending on how you value a barn and the disruption and general interruption of life and so on.

Recovering the cows come daylight would be a good additional way to get back in the good graces of the farmer. If nothing else there's likely some emotional attachment to the livestock. Otherwise there could be some minor problem somewhere on or near the villagers land. Nuisance fey harassing travellers, goblin thieves stealing chickens and clothing that's been left out to dry, other mostly harmless stuff like that.

[Pinjata]

A little info on how and why the barn got burnt down might help come up with a repayment. Also how important are those two cows to the family's livelihood? Is it a drop in the bucket or is that family going to be needing handouts from neighbors to survive winter without them? Milk and the meat from a cow can go a long way in supporting a family.

Well ... from the villagers' standoint, PCs were offered barn as a shelter to sleep over the night and ... 1d12 rounds later, structure is on fire :D This barn IS essential for mentioned farm. They will not starve, because they are part of a village, but husband has died on the farm recently, leaving a wife and a small boy behind. And then the barn burnt down.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Doing some poking around on Google, a barn costs around £35,000 to build today. I don't imagine barn technology has changed all that much since medieval times, so I'd happily equate that to 150gp. Buildings be expensive, kids!

According to the PHB, a horse eats 5cp of feed per day. You can probably approximate cows as being the same. So then the question is, how long is winter? 90 days x 2 cows x 5cp x 1.1 contingency because you don't want to run out = 9.9gp. So the hay is worth about as much as a cow.

[J-H]

IRL modern dollars...assuming dairy cows around 1000# each... $1500-$3000 per cow, including the value of future calves the heifers could have. $3000-$6000 total.
Hay for a winter - assuming "northern" longer winters, probably about 6 bales per cow at $50/ea... $600 total - except that we do it by machine, and they did it by hand, so there's a lot more labor in it.
Barn? Even a small wood barn $20k-$40k these days.

The equivalent of $30,000 to $60,000 modern dollars seems about fair. That's about 1 year's pay for an average person in the US.
Skilled laborers (proficiency) get wages of 2gp per day. Farming is definitely a skilled labor task, so a year's wages at 350 working days per year (cows don't take weekends off) is 700gp.

I'd go with "The party owes them 700gp or a new barn, catching the cows, and purchasing some hay." Put those tool proficiencies to work and enjoy 2-3 weeks of downtime.

[Imbalance]

Nah, a good farmer has a call - the cows know it and might just come back on their own if nothing got them. If she hasn't called them in by the next afternoon, better go search.

Unless the neighbors can help with feed, that's a more direct loss, but becomes less detrimental if there are no cows.

If the farm serves the community, then the community will raise the barn, no problem, and folks will settle up in the coming year. No amount of gold will top that. If your players are on the hook, ethically, they need to put their backs into it and help with what needs done, which, according to the usual adventurer skill set, probably means rounding up livestock in the wilderness and hoping Bessy's milk didn't sour. Then see about gathering up some decent wild grass to get the animals through the lean months ahead.

But if the farmer really wants to hold them responsible for the damage, they owe her new hex signs. Two to replace the existing star and flower, and a new one with a horse head icon to ward against bumbling protagonists. Hopefully, a skilled woodworker lives in town to craft such a thing as well as a cleric or at least an acolyte to bless them. That'll take some coin and CHA, but will go a long way to getting in the town's good graces.

[Grognerd]

Skilled laborers (proficiency) get wages of 2gp per day. Farming is definitely a skilled labor task, so a year's wages at 350 working days per year (cows don't take weekends off) is 700gp.


I think your breakdown was a very good one, except for this line. While farming definitely requires skill, and having grown up in the Midwest I have nothing but respect for farmers, in D&D terms farming is somewhat of the default occupation of commoners/peasants, so I believe they would likely be considered unskilled workers (1 gp), bringing this down to 350 gp.

But if the party burned down a widow's barn, they should be offering to give extra, not just cost. Jerks. :smallsmile:

[J-H]

I think your breakdown was a very good one, except for this line. While farming definitely requires skill, and having grown up in the Midwest I have nothing but respect for farmers, in D&D terms farming is somewhat of the default occupation of commoners/peasants, so I believe they would likely be considered unskilled workers (1 gp), bringing this down to 350 gp.

But if the party burned down a widow's barn, they should be offering to give extra, not just cost. Jerks. :smallsmile:

The number of books, videos, and mistakes made so far that go into raising a few pigs and a few cows on my small farm would disagree that it's something that can be done with a simple "ability check" (ie, no training/practice/experience).

[Grognerd]

The number of books, videos, and mistakes made so far that go into raising a few pigs and a few cows on my small farm would disagree that it's something that can be done with a simple "ability check" (ie, no training/practice/experience).

And as someone who has worked on a farm and grew up in farm country - as I previously noted - I am well aware that farming requires a great deal of skill. However, as I said, in terms of D&D, I hardly think that the 'default' profession of commoners would be considered skilled labor.

[Anderlith]

Farmers live & die by the land. They need to not only replace the lost property, but also give them restitution for their trouble. I would say, they should definitely wrangle the cows in the morning. They are adventurers it should be no problem to track them down (maybe they got taken by goblins & now it’s a bit of an adventure) once the cows are back they should pay & participate in a barn raising. Then pay about 15g (the price of feed) for the hay. More than just gold they need to make sure the widow & boy are actually getting replacements. You can’t eat gold. Also, they should pay to keep them in good lifestyle for the winter... & teach the boy some adventurer skills.


The only other way to make it right is to marry the widow & take care of her & the kid

[Dork_Forge]

The number of books, videos, and mistakes made so far that go into raising a few pigs and a few cows on my small farm would disagree that it's something that can be done with a simple "ability check" (ie, no training/practice/experience).

It's worth considering that this is basically all these people do in the typical setting. Whereas nowadays we learn a wide array of things to cope in modern life (maths, literacy, how to use technology and other topics), peasants would just learn how to farm and look after themselves.

That's besides that a lot of people doing this work not only don't own the land they probably aren't even full farmers. Instead being farmhands doing manual labour that we put onto machine years ago.

So whilst in the real world farming is surely a skilled and knowledgeable profession in its own right, in stereotypical fantasy (and our own history), its just the manual labour based way most people spent half their days.

[AdAstra]

So whilst in the real world farming is surely a skilled and knowledgeable profession in its own right, in stereotypical fantasy (and our own history), its just the manual labour based way most people spent half their days.

That's there's the rub. Nowadays, you'd hardly consider writing, typing, or basic math to be skilled labor, those are things you practically need to survive. But back in medieval times? Just being able to read and write would be enough to keep you well fed if you could find someone to hire you (and assuming you actually knew the local language). Typing (quickly) was a valuable job skill back before computers became ubiquitous. You have to consider the era, when considering how "skilled" a task would be.

In a world where the vast majority of the population is farming, skills related to farming would hardly be considered "skilled" at all, unless you were particularly great at it.

As for the original question. Does the family still have enough food/purchasing power to last the winter? If that went up with the barn, then you'll need to secure the supplies. You'd probably need some funds to secure materials and maybe some carpenters, then compensate the village as a whole for participating in the extra barn-raising. Chances are they'll do it without pay, but they won't be happy with the party. Then there's replacing the cows and feed, which can't be more than 25-30 gold or so. I would say it can't be more than 100gp, probably a good deal less, like 50 or something.

[Dork_Forge]

That's there's the rub. Nowadays, you'd hardly consider writing, typing, or basic math to be skilled labor, those are things you practically need to survive. But back in medieval times? Just being able to read and write would be enough to keep you well fed if you could find someone to hire you (and assuming you actually knew the local language). Typing (quickly) was a valuable job skill back before computers became ubiquitous. You have to consider the era, when considering how "skilled" a task would be.

In a world where the vast majority of the population is farming, skills related to farming would hardly be considered "skilled" at all, unless you were particularly great at it.


Maybe I wasn't clear but this was actually my point, nowadays if you raise animals or farm on the side that's a lot to learn. But if that's all you've ever known and learned and the majority of the population is like that, it's more... Common knowledge?

[GloatingSwine]

Doing some poking around on Google, a barn costs around £35,000 to build today. I don't imagine barn technology has changed all that much since medieval times, so I'd happily equate that to 150gp. Buildings be expensive, kids!


No, but land and building prices have gone up astronomically.

On the other hand if you're a small farm with two cows, they do not live in a barn, they live in your farm cottage with you because that's a lot of body heat you're wasting at night otherwise (usually in a living space on one end of the building).

[Wildarm]

Xanathar's has rules for businesses including farms. Have the party pay the costs of running the farm for the winter plus the cost of the cow(10gp) and labor to rebuilt the barn(1sp/worker/day).

[Sigreid]

Or they can finish the job they started and sell the widow and her son as slaves to the nearest hobgoblins.

[Anderlith]

Or they can finish the job they started and sell the widow and her son as slaves to the nearest hobgoblins.

Drow & MindFlayers pay more. You need to think economically

[AdAstra]

Maybe I wasn't clear but this was actually my point, nowadays if you raise animals or farm on the side that's a lot to learn. But if that's all you've ever known and learned and the majority of the population is like that, it's more... Common knowledge?

Yeah, sorry, should've made it more clear I was agreeing with you. I just felt that that particular part deserved some elaboration, so I basically flipped it around to demonstrate the point.

[SirGraystone]

As someone said already a cow is 10gp, PHB have price of mount feed at 5 cp a day, so 10 cp for both cows, let say 100 days for winter that's another 10 gp. A small barn I would estimate it around 500 gp, maybe half that if the players spend a few weeks helping building the new barn.

How to please the villagers that's can depend of a lot of things, the law may charge a penalty on top of the price of the barn something like an extra 500 gp. A neighbor maybe be unhappy if the barn is rebuild because he wanted to buy the land. Or they may just not care.

[Sigreid]

I'll admit I'm curious how the fire started.

[Demonslayer666]

Heyyo!

My PCs managed to burn down a barn with supply of hay for an entire winter, plus two cows, that were inside have in the dead of night, run away into the forest.

I have a few questions:

- Is there a reason for PCs to run and go search for cows in dead of night? (I think not)

- What would the costs of barn, hay and cows be? (5e ofc)

- Can you come up with some good way for PCs to compensate for burnt down barn? Thing is, gold is okay and villagers will have new barn set up pretty soon and I'm sure PCs will be able to pay the expenses, but perhaps you guys can come up with an idea of how could PCs get on the good side of villagers again, by making some sort of a deed, that would raise their status in the eyes of villagers after unfortunate barn fire?

thanks

The important thing here is to continue your story as you want it told. Don't get hung up too much on paying for collateral damage. Have them do what they want and move on.

- The only reason they would go after the cows at night is if they had a good tracker. Otherwise it's pretty pointless since you can't see far enough to spot them.

- The cost I would have around 500 gold for the barn, and standard price for the cows. 5 cp per day for a mount, so just go with that (5 cp x 5 months x 30 days x 2 cows = 15 gold (1500 copper). 535 gold grand total. But the barn can't be replaced easily, there should be more cost applied.

- Sincerely apologize to the widow, and compensate her for her troubles and help out where they can. Replace the barn by hiring an army to build it in a day and have them stock it full of hay. Find or replace the cows, and pay her extra for her time and stress (other livestock, build fences, new farm equipment, etc.). To help with the village status, throw a barn dance party with a feast and plenty of mead.

[Pinjata]

I'll admit I'm curious how the fire started.

Well ... One of the PCs got bitten by a werewolf. A day passes, party tries to stab and hammer away at the guy ... his skin is like rubbery steel. Okay, Lycantropy has set in, we need to to have this curse removed. They travel to the village, they have rid of bandits not long ago. They meet a kind widow there, bandits have killed her husband. Grateful, she offers them free lodging - they can sleep in her barn. They all move to the barn. They tie up the lycantropic PC to a wooden pillar in order to restrain him until next day (full moon is 2 or 3 days away).

Widow is coming to them to bring then supper. Uh-oh, we have a guy, tied to a pole here. Better cast "haystack" Minor illusion over him and the pole. Widow brings the supper, looks suspiciously at the haystack. (I roll d 20 - if above 10, she will explore the strange haystack, she does not remember it to be there). She moves toward the haystack that is hiding the lycantropic PC. Caster of Minor Illusion hides behind another PC, changes haystack into flames and fire (even if silent). Scared widow runs out in fear. PCs dismiss the illusion, they pack the tied up guy to the loft. High-INT Wizard stays at the ground floor. "Well, we need to make SOME fire in order to make it believable, we have put it out".

Werewolf update: They are waiting for a local cleric to have a nice nap and a prayer in the morning in order to get Remove Curse.

http://sittingbee.com/wp-content/uploads/barn-burning-william-faulkner.jpg

[Anderlith]

Terrible ideas all around, I love it. What do they plan on doing with the moonsick PC now that the barn is destroyed? There could be a chance they could capitalize on their werewolfry to track down the cows.