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View Full Version : Player Help Which class/multiclass is ideal for this party and DM?



Expected
2019-12-09, 09:35 PM
My DM (the same one from my other threads) is allowing me to move my Sorlockadin to his other campaign in the same homebrew world, but now I need to create a new character. My DM uses square grids, minis, and spell templates during combat. He homebrews monsters by improving their published scores and giving them Pack Tactics as well as other strong features/traits. He idealizes Combat as War and is merciless--he will brutally punish any mistake we make. We use point buy, all sourcebooks, including UA, feats, and flanking. Both magic items and gold are scarce (he rolls using the DMG loot tables).

My party consists of a level 3 (non-variant) Human Gloomstalker Ranger, a level 2 Tiefling Hexblade Warlock, a level 2 Half-Orc s&b Champion Fighter with heavy armor, and a level 2 (non-variant) Evoker Wizard who does not have any damaging Cantrips and casts Shield during his turn instead of as a reaction. They are mainly RPers so the odds are stacked against me--I have to carry their slack and if I go down or die, they scatter.

I am a min-maxer and plan on dumping scores to optimize. So, I ask you, what class should I play? Any class/multiclass and race using any source (except unofficial homebrew) is available.

Bobthewizard
2019-12-09, 10:03 PM
This party could use control and healing, so I'd recommend bard or druid. I especially like shepherd druids, but you need to know how to play minions efficiently.

OgataiKhan
2019-12-10, 03:47 AM
Your party lacks a Wis caster and some healing, both problems that can be easily solved by a Druid (Shepherd and Moon are the best) or Cleric.



casts Shield during his turn instead of as a reaction.

He can't do that. You can only cast Shield as a reaction and only when you get hit by an attack or targeted by Magic Missile.



My party consists of a level 3 (non-variant) Human Gloomstalker Ranger, a level 2 Tiefling Hexblade Warlock, a level 2 Half-Orc s&b Champion Fighter with heavy armor, and a level 2 (non-variant) Evoker Wizard

That said, have you asked your DM why on earth he allows characters of different levels in the same campaign? That should never be the case because it creates unbalanced combats that are not fun for the lower level players. He should bring you all to the same level asap and keep it that way.

Galithar
2019-12-10, 05:26 AM
That said, have you asked your DM why on earth he allows characters of different levels in the same campaign? That should never be the case because it creates unbalanced combats that are not fun for the lower level players. He should bring you all to the same level asap and keep it that way.

That's a highly opinionated view. The only big power gaps are between tier levels. A level 4 is far less powerful than a level 5, but a level 5 is only a little weaker than a level 6. Beyond that, not everyone needs 'equal' to have fun
I'm in a campaign with a powergaming min-maxer who "rolls 2 18's" everytime we rolls stats. I rolled 6 6 9 13 13 14 and am just fine playing next to his two 20's (after racials and an ASI)

Especially in a group of RPers differing levels isn't bad. It's slightly bad that in what sounds like a combat as sport group the DM is strongly Combat as War, but that's irrelevant to the level gap.

Nidgit
2019-12-10, 05:27 AM
Shepherd Druid X/Life Cleric 1 is here for all your maximized healing needs. Once you hit 6th level you're spending most of your time summoning allies and boosting them with a totem, while using lower level spell slots for boosted Goodberries and Healing Words/Spirits.

If you weren't already playing a Sorcerer multiclass I would strongly consider a Divine Soul Sorcerer since your party is ripe for a Twinned Haste. As such, other good options include Twilight Druid, Lore Bard, or most Clerics. Arcana Cleric could be quite good if you don't mind stepping on the Wizard's toes a little, and Trickery Cleric has a really good spell list and some underrated powers that might help well with your group.

No matter what you do, make sure to use the expanded spell lists from the October UA.

Keravath
2019-12-10, 08:10 AM
That said, have you asked your DM why on earth he allows characters of different levels in the same campaign? That should never be the case because it creates unbalanced combats that are not fun for the lower level players. He should bring you all to the same level asap and keep it that way.

Just a quick comment. I have been playing Adventurers League for a couple of years now and it is organized by tiers. The only time levels really becomes an issue is when one character is at the bottom end of the tier and the other is at the top and even then the encounters are reasonably balanced and fun for everyone. In this case there is a one level difference which is pretty much negligible for levels 1-4, 5-10, 11-16 or 17-20. Level 5 with level 3s bridges tiers and there is a significant ability bump at 5 so it could be an issue, but otherwise, in my play experience, a difference of 1 or 2 levels isn't a big deal.

Keravath
2019-12-10, 08:18 AM
To the OP, there is no way that one character can carry a group in combat. If the DM sets an encounter that is intended to be dealt with by the entire party, and the folks in that party just don't participate then there is no single character that you can create that will save them.

Personally, if they decide not to participate and scatter then you should probably let the DM hunt them down until they die or are enslaved repeatedly, then the character can decide if they are cut out for the adventuring life.

As we've mentioned previously, you need to have a talk with the players out of character about what they need to be contributing in order to survive these encounters with a DM who likes to run killer tactial combat. Perhaps remind them that if they role play pacifists in the violent world of D&D then they can do so but they will likely die and then they can roll up a new character. Perhaps suggest that role playing includes role playing combat as well as all the other activities.

I'd also point out that the shield spell is a reaction, you CAN'T cast it on your turn unless attacked so the wizard is not playing that correctly. It is also a complete waste of one of the three spell slots they have unless they are actually being protected from an attack.

P.S. If you want to choose something to complement the party, I'd go with something like the suggested shepherd druid X/life cleric 1. Assuming your DM allows the life cleric bonus on healing spirit and goodberries, you should be able to heal up the entire party between combats for minimum resources expended. Also, once you reach level 6/7 and have access to summon spells then the character will get more powerful. In tier 1, focus on ranged attacks, stay back from the combat, use healing word to bring up downed characters and run away if your party is just being ineffective due to "role playing". You can't save a party that doesn't want to be saved.

Expected
2019-12-10, 12:42 PM
Thank you all for the great advice thus far!

The disparity in levels isn't a problem for us at all and I prefer to earn my levels anyway.

I know that, by RAW, you cannot cast Shield during your turn as an action (it has to be cast as a reaction), but I play strictly by the rules for my PC. I don't want to become "that guy" by correcting the DM and the other players too much and focusing more on rules and having the possibly of negatively affecting how much fun they're having.

Since my last thread, I have talked to the other players and they agreed to contribute to combat. I pointed out that had I not optimized for combat and sacrificed my character, they would be rerolling theirs and their RP up to this point would have been for nothing (there was a lot of backstory and the beginning of growth with their characters). Their characters are still horribly made for combat (e.g. non-variant Human that receives no benefit from +1 to all scores as their scores were even before racials; <14 primary and secondary scores and low Con). I have fun being challenged so their unoptimized characters and playing styles just make it more of a challenge to overcome (within limits, as mentioned in this thread).

I will definitely consider a Cleric, Druid, or another Divine Soul Sorcerer multiclass (just built differently). How about an Arcana Cleric with BB and GFB using Spirit Guardians and Spiritual Weapon? As for the Druid, I'm thinking about either Moon or Shepherd (the DM said we're going to make it to level 20). Even though I'm already playing a Sorlockadin, I'd be okay with a Hexblade Warlock 3/Divine Soul Sorcerer 17 spamming Eldritch Blast and the occasional Fireball/Spirit Guardians (my DM clumps enemies together sometimes).

Nhym
2019-12-10, 01:18 PM
Shepherd Druids can carry almost any party once you get to level 5, and before 5 they still make excellent supports. Temp HP from bear spirit is awesome. I have a guide in my signature.

Teaguethebean
2019-12-10, 02:28 PM
Shepherd Druids can carry almost any party once you get to level 5, and before 5 they still make excellent supports. Temp HP from bear spirit is awesome. I have a guide in my signature.

I agree fully sheperd druid is a team on its own and before lv5 focusing on Healing spirit would work.

Eldariel
2019-12-10, 02:59 PM
Diviner is always ideal. A controller Wizard would slot in perfectly; you could share spells with the other Wizard as a bonus. This allows you to make things manageable to the rest of the party. You could Magic Initiate for Healing Word to get that out of the way and enable yoyoing as necessary (provided the DM lets you use your spell slots for it; otherwise, don't bother).

The other options are, as others have mentioned, Cleric, Druid and Bard. All of them are good all-rounders that can do everything at will. Any of the classes can really be built to handle the party carrying, but you definitely want spells of as high a level as possible. Maximize your casting score and go from there. Summons and minionmancy are of course highly valuable regardless of the way you go. Are you going to start at level 1, 2 or 3? That also makes a lot of difference. Level 3, you can start managing everything by yourself but level 1 can be rough with these kinds of odds.

Asensur
2019-12-10, 03:07 PM
What your party lacks is a Berserker Gnome possessed by a Redcap and the Tourette syndrome.

Evaar
2019-12-10, 03:32 PM
Shepherd Druid is a good pick.

I'm gonna sound like a broken record from other threads but LudicSavant's Generalist Celestial Warlock would also be a good fit, because you can pick up the slack wherever it's needed at pretty much any time. You can heal, tank, damage, cast rituals, have (almost) every cantrip, be the party face, and more. Here's the thread: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?583957-An-Eclectic-Collection-of-Fun-and-Effective-Builds

Expected
2019-12-10, 10:08 PM
Thank you, everyone. I've chosen to play a Circle of the Shepherd Druid. The new discussion can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?604536-Help-me-build-a-Circle-of-the-Shepherd-Druid).