Domain Crusader, Ur-Priest, Sublime Chord, and what else?

[newguydude1]

I thought domain crusader was the only one but there's also ur-priest and sublime chord.

domain crusader has all domain spells whose minimum caster level is the same as their spell level.
ur-presit has all cleric spells whose minimum caster level is the same as their spell level.
sublime chord has arcane spells 2-5 whose minimum caster level is 2, 4 for 6th level, 6 for 7th level, 8 for 8th level, and 10 for 9th level.

Are there any other PrCs that bring down minimum caster level?

[magic9mushroom]

I thought domain crusader was the only one but there's also ur-priest and sublime chord.

domain crusader has all domain spells whose minimum caster level is the same as their spell level.
ur-presit has all cleric spells whose minimum caster level is the same as their spell level.
sublime chord has arcane spells 2-5 whose minimum caster level is 2, 4 for 6th level, 6 for 7th level, 8 for 8th level, and 10 for 9th level.

Are there any other PrCs that bring down minimum caster level?

Apostle of Peace, Blighter. I know Beholder Mage doesn't, because while it's fast-progression its CL is doubled.

Mystic Ranger has min caster level 0 for spell levels 0-1, 2 for spell level 2, 3 for spell level 3, 4 for spell level 4, 5 for spell level 5.

[Quertus]

Apostle of Peace, Blighter. I know Beholder Mage doesn't, because while it's fast-progression its CL is doubled.

Mystic Ranger has min caster level 0 for spell levels 0-1, 2 for spell level 2, 3 for spell level 3, 4 for spell level 4, 5 for spell level 5.

Wait - caster level 0? Are you sure? Are there some special rules I'm missing, or does that make them free?

[Kalkra]

Chameleon can cast up to 2nd level spells from any list at level 1. Also, You can add Versatile Spellcaster to any pf those classes (maybe) to get access to an extra spell level (maybe). Or just use Mind MAge and cast everything as cantrips.

[newguydude1]

Apostle of Peace, Blighter. I know Beholder Mage doesn't, because while it's fast-progression its CL is doubled.

Mystic Ranger has min caster level 0 for spell levels 0-1, 2 for spell level 2, 3 for spell level 3, 4 for spell level 4, 5 for spell level 5.


Chameleon can cast up to 2nd level spells from any list at level 1. Also, You can add Versatile Spellcaster to any pf those classes (maybe) to get access to an extra spell level (maybe). Or just use Mind MAge and cast everything as cantrips.

Ok thanks!


Wait - caster level 0? Are you sure? Are there some special rules I'm missing, or does that make them free?

My DM banned dragon magazine. But wow! Caster level 0? Isn't there a rule that says you need at least caster level 1?

[Telonius]

Here's the general rule from the "Casting Spells (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/castingSpells.htm)" overview:


A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell.

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.

So yes, as a Bard7/Sublime Chord 10 (or a Wizard17, for that matter) you can cast Dancing Lights with a CL of 1 if you really want to, since a Wizard1 or Bard1 could cast it. But you can't cast it at CL 0, since a 0-level Bard or Wizard can't cast it.

It gets a bit wonky for Sublime Chord specifically, since its spell list is separate from the Bard spell list. That's definitely "ask your DM" territory, since you could reasonably argue that any of the 4th-level SC spells to have a minimum CL of 8 (since you have to have a minimum level of 8 to have 7 levels of Bard and one of SC), or 1 (one level of the PrC since it's a separate spell list).


Dracolexi gets Power Word spells at earlier-than-usual levels, so the minimum caster levels of those would decrease.

[gogogome]

It gets a bit wonky for Sublime Chord specifically, since its spell list is separate from the Bard spell list. That's definitely "ask your DM" territory, since you could reasonably argue that any of the 4th-level SC spells to have a minimum CL of 8 (since you have to have a minimum level of 8 to have 7 levels of Bard and one of SC), or 1 (one level of the PrC since it's a separate spell list).

You need a minimum level of 11. Sublime Chord's skill requirements force you to take the PrC at level 11 minimum.

Sublime Chord says you add the SC levels to an existing arcane spellcasting class. The trick here is Bard7/Wizard1/misc2/Sublime Chord1 and add the sublime chord's caster level to wizard. That way your SC's caster level is 2 for 4th and 5th level spells.

[Khedrac]

Chameleon can cast up to 2nd level spells from any list at level 1. Also, You can add Versatile Spellcaster to any pf those classes (maybe) to get access to an extra spell level (maybe). Or just use Mind MAge and cast everything as cantrips.

Yes, but a Chameleon 1 has a caster level of 2.

For a few specific spells there is also Trapsmith (Dungeonscape) which gets to cast things like haste at level 1 (caster level 1); but this does raise the question of is there any point to a CL1 dispel magic?

[magic9mushroom]

Wait - caster level 0? Are you sure? Are there some special rules I'm missing, or does that make them free?

Mystic Ranger is a variant Ranger that gets level 0 spells at level 1, level 1 spells at level 2, level 2 spells at level 4, level 3 spells at level 6, level 4 spells at level 8 and level 5 spells at level 10.

However, they forgot to remove the text from ordinary Ranger that says "Through 3rd level, a ranger has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is one-half his ranger level".

[newguydude1]

can't believe we all forgot about nar demonbinder. amazing class.

[Ruethgar]

You need a minimum level of 11. Sublime Chord's skill requirements force you to take the PrC at level 11 minimum.
Awakened Titanic Dungeonbred Magebred Warbeast Cat/Lizard/Monkey/Rat/Toad are all set to ECL 0 until the DM throws a book at you. Bard 1 of those races can qualify for Sublime Chord. Take out the templates, add a major bloodline and you can qualify at ECL 3.

Normal races, Major Bloodline +3, Laborious Training and Primary Contact +1, qualify at ECL 6.

[magic9mushroom]

Awakened Titanic Dungeonbred Magebred Warbeast Cat/Lizard/Monkey/Rat/Toad are all set to ECL 0 until the DM throws a book at you. Bard 1 of those races can qualify for Sublime Chord. Take out the templates, add a major bloodline and you can qualify at ECL 3.

Normal races, Major Bloodline +3, Laborious Training and Primary Contact +1, qualify at ECL 6.

Can you remind me where the 0 ECL comes from?

Laborious Training is third-party, I'll note, and Bloodlines are variant rules.

[Ruethgar]

Dragon #293 gave direct ECL(not LA) for all of the creatures in the MMI 3.0, specifying that the animals listed were for Awakened Animals. Being that the MMI 3.5 updated all of the other creatures, but not Awakened animals, the animal ECLs are still valid for play as they are. Awakened Cats, Lizards, Monkeys, Rats, and Toads are all set to ECL 0 by becoming awakened because of this, regardless of their advancement or templates. It is playable in 3.5 without mechanical issues, however due to game balance it would be encouraged to update it to LA rather than directly setting ECL.

Edit: Legacy of the Blood is still an officially licensed WotC product so the legitimacy is slightly higher than straight up 3rd party only under the open license agreement.

[ShurikVch]

Shadow Templar (https://web.archive.org/web/20140325192823/http://athas.org/products/prc1/documents/39) from Dark Sun

EDIT: Also, Darklight Wizard from the Villain Design Handbook

[magic9mushroom]

Edit: Legacy of the Blood is still an officially licensed WotC product so the legitimacy is slightly higher than straight up 3rd party only under the open license agreement.

Hmm. I was just going off the fact that they put "Sword & Sorcery" rather than "Dungeons & Dragons" on the cover. Is there some reason for that?

[RedMage125]

Hmm. I was just going off the fact that they put "Sword & Sorcery" rather than "Dungeons & Dragons" on the cover. Is there some reason for that?

If it has the "Sword & Sorcery" title on it, it was produced by White Wolf under OGL, not WotC.

It is important to note, however, that during the 3.0 run, WotC licensed White Wolf (as S&S) to make all official Ravenloft content. So while it was not considered "1st party" as far as being official WotC content, it was the only "officially licensed" content for Ravenloft in 3.0. It was not until the 3.5 transition that WotC took the Ravenloft IP back to do publish one adventure.

So, while I would only call it "official" if you are playing Ravenloft.