Swift Hunter + CC. 1st time trying to build

[bean illus]

First post edited to reflect current ideas

So, scout is T4? and swift hunter is a clear improvement but is still T4? And archery's feat heavy, etc. Still, i started looking at it, and ... I'm still looking. (yes I'm using multiclass rules. No to Dr mag content... for now/at first)

I've modified the build to include most of the advice. I think I've got SwH asap, and great manyshot asap also.

What are the next 'best' feats to take?

14 16 12 - 14 12 10
Human: PBS, *precise shot

1 Scout - skir +1
Ranger - FE undead
3 Ranger 2 - rapid shot, *ewp greatbow
Scout 2 -
Scout 3 - fast +10, skir +1/+1
6 Ranger 3 - *Swift Hunter, FE construct

Ranger 4 - urban companion, SwH +2/+1
Ranger 5
9 Ranger 6 - manyshot, *GMS, SwH +2/+2


IF I was to add Cloistered, now would be great. But would need 2 levels 'quick' to minimize multiclass penalties. 2 levels also brings KD skills near par.

3 CC levels 'fixes' the Will save, and KD, and 2nd level spells, mitigating Champion of the Wild's spell loss.

Cloistered - trav dev, kn dev, undeath
CC 2

Ranger 14 / Scout 3 / Cleric 3
IF i accept this build, I need 3? Leveling feats and 4 CoW feats.


Woodland elf
12 18 12 - 12 12 12

Level B F R W ... Special
1 Scout 0 0 2 0 Skir (+1d6), trapfind
... ... weapon finesse
2 CC ... 0 2 2 2 Turn undead, kn dom
... ... elf dom (PBS), war dom (WF long bow)
3 Scou2 1 3 3 3 BatFort+1, uncanny dodge
... ... precise shot
4 Rangr 2 5 5 3 favored enemy 1- undead
... ... track, wild emp
5 Scou3 3 6 5 4 Fast +10, skir+1+1AC
... ... trackless
6 Rang2 4 7 6 4 rapid shot, enemy 2 ? ? ?
... ... SWIFT HUNTER skir+2d6+1AC

Feels slow out the gate? But I don't see a really better way. Is this just what it does?

So first, edits and acf suggestions and such for the above?


7 CC 2 .. 5 8 6 5 know devo (trade
8 CC 3 .. 5 8 7 5
9 Scou4 6 8 8 5 bf - quick recon
... ... travel devo

10 Rang3 7 8 8 6 Endurance, Skir+2 +2
11 CC 4 .. 8 9 8 7
12 SotMI 8 11 10 7 travel dom, +1 divine

Then add Swift Hunter Scout 8/Ranger 6?


SCOUT
L B F R W Special
1 0 0 2 0 Skir (+1d6), trapfind
2 1 0 3 0 BatFort+1, uncanny dodge
3 2 1 3 1 Fast+10 skir+1+1AC trackless
4 3 1 4 1 Bonus Feat
5 3 1 4 1 Evasion, skir+2d6+1AC
6 4 2 5 2 Flawless Stride
7 5 2 5 2 Skir+2d6+2 AC
8 6/1 2 6 2 Camoflague, Bonus feat

Skirm @ 9, 11, 13

RANGER
L B F R W Special
1 1 2 2 0 *favor enemy 1,*Track,*wild emp
2 2 3 3 0 Combat style
3 3 3 3 1 Endurance
4 4 4 4 1 Animal companion
5 5 4 4 1 favored enemy 2
6 6/1 5 5 2 Improved combat style

10 3rd enemy

CLERIC cloistered
L B F R W Special
1 0 2 0 2 Turn or rebuke undead, lore
2 1 3 0 3
3 1 3 1 3
4 2 4 1 4

SotMI
L B F R W Special
1 0 2 2 0 Travel domain, 1 level divine
2 1 3 3 0 ... ... , 1 level divine

[liquidformat]

So I don't think you can actually get travel devotion until you enter SotMI since it isn't a domain of Corellon...

You don't want the sum of your Scout + Ranger levels to be an even number since skirmish is on odd numbers and FE is every 5 levels. Weapon Finesse is a waste of a feat, you should have an elven craft dragon bone bow so you can attack with your bow in melee and that isn't finesse'able. You are better off taking EWP (Great Bow).

ACFs:
Arcane Hunter(CM) is great across the board
Spell Reflection(CM) this is a great option that allows spells to be reflected back on the caster if they miss.
Hidden Stalker(CS) allows you to hide if you are within 5' of a person.

[Troacctid]

The cloistered cleric dip is overrated IMO. I would skip it. Maybe at higher levels, once you actually have a full attack worth talking about, you could pick it up. Maybe.


Arcane Hunter(CM) is great across the board

Hard disagree. You're a swift hunter. You bypass precision immunity for favored enemies. If your first four favored enemies aren't undead, constructs, oozes, and plants, you've probably made poor life choices.

[bean illus]

So I don't think you can actually get travel devotion until you enter SotMI since it isn't a domain of Corellon...

I'm pretty sure TD can be taken as a feat by anybody.



You don't want the sum of your Scout + Ranger levels to be an even number since skirmish is on odd numbers and FE is every 5 levels. Weapon Finesse is a waste of a feat, you should have an elven craft dragon bone bow so you can attack with your bow in melee and that isn't finesse'able. You are better off taking EWP (Great Bow).

Yeah ... 16 16 12 - 12 12 12 ? Lose fineness. Good call on the weapon, also.



ACFs:
Arcane Hunter(CM) is great across the board
Spell Reflection(CM) this is a great option that allows spells to be reflected back on the caster if they miss.
Hidden Stalker(CS) allows you to hide if you are within 5' of a person.

I would take all 3 (thanks), but cant fit evasion in twice with what I'm clericing. And Troacctid says ...


The cloistered cleric dip is overrated IMO. I would skip it. Maybe at higher levels, once you actually have a full attack worth talking about, you could pick it up. Maybe.

I know you're an accomplished optimizer, and I might make a no/less magic version, but ...

Elf cleric nets PBS, WF, 3 domains with great pertinent spells, wand/scroll from one of the biggest list in the game, and the gold standard for full attack movement ... and later the know devo.

I think I'll finish the cleric build, and maybe then do a more martial build to compare them.



Hard disagree. You're a swift hunter. You bypass precision immunity for favored enemies. If your first four favored enemies aren't undead, constructs, oozes, and plants, you've probably made poor life choices.

Really? No other party member can deal with oozes? Compared to a +4ish against anything with spell/invoc? I think this time I'll go arcane hunter, undead, construct, and then either plant or ooze.

Please keep making suggestions, though.

[heavyfuel]

Really? No other party member can deal with oozes? Compared to a +4ish against anything with spell/invoc? I think this time I'll go arcane hunter, undead, construct, and then either plant or ooze.

Please keep making suggestions, though.

Of course other party member can deal with them. Thing is, if you're going for a Swift Hunter build then you're likely one of the main damage dealers in the group, and facing these creatures without your skirmish damage makes you a dead weight instead of the killing machine you're supposed to be.

Also, Arcane Hunter must be taken at Ranger 1, not as many creatures with spells/invocations at this level. (how many creatures will even have invocations at all?)

And then it also delays your progression. You'll only get FE:Undead at ECL 6, and FE:Contruct at ECL 11. If you game even gets to levels much higher than 11, you'll still have spent half of your carreer sucking hard vs a pretty common creature type. If your game ends at mid levels, then, well...

Ask yourself: Is +2 damage vs creatures with Spells really that important that you'd pass up penetrating immunity to your main source of damage of a couple of super common creature types?

[bean illus]

Also, Arcane Hunter must be taken at Ranger 1, ...
And then it also delays your progression. You'll only get FE:Undead at ECL 6, and FE:Contruct at ECL 11.

This makes more sense to me than the other points. Thanks.

[RNightstalker]

I would consider Champion of the Wild ACF for the Ranger, sacrificing your spellcasting for much needed feats.

[bean illus]

I would consider Champion of the Wild ACF for the Ranger, sacrificing your spellcasting for much needed feats.

Which feats?

I've modified the build to include most of the advice. I think I've got SwH asap, and great manyshot asap also.

What are the next 'best' feats to take?

14 16 12 a 14 12 10
Human: PBS, *precise shot

1 Scout - skir +1
Ranger - FE undead
3 Ranger 2 - rapid shot, *ewp greatbow
Scout 2 -
Scout 3 - fast +10, skir +1/+1
6 Ranger 3 - *Swift Hunter, FE construct

Ranger 4 - urban companion, SwH +2/+1
Ranger 5
9 Ranger 6 - manyshot, *GMS, SwH +2/+2


IF I was to add Cloistered, now would be great. But would need 2 levels 'quick' to minimize multiclass penalties. 2 levels also brings KD skills near par.

3 CC levels 'fixes' the Will save, and KD, and 2nd level spells, mitigating Champion of the Wild's spell loss.

Cloistered - trav dev, kn dev, undeath
CC 2

Ranger 14 / Scout 3 / Cleric 3
IF i accept this build, I need 3? Leveling feats and 4 CoW feats.

[liquidformat]

I'm pretty sure TD can be taken as a feat by anybody.

So take a look at the devotion feat header it goes over who and how you can take the feats, any character can take 1 devotion feat, only clerics can take devotion feats and I believe there is something in there about clerics can only take devotion feats associated with their god's domains. AFB but pretty sure this will be an issue...

[bean illus]

So take a look at the devotion feat header it goes over who and how you can take the feats, any character can take 1 devotion feat, only clerics can take devotion feats and I believe there is something in there about clerics can only take devotion feats associated with their god's domains. AFB but pretty sure this will be an issue...

Read it twice this week (when questioned) and once more just now. I still think anybody can take it. The rules are:

* If not a cleric you may take 2

* If yes a cleric you may take 3

* A cleric can trade a Domain for a same Devotion

* Clerics of a deity can take any domain in the portfolio as a feat.

* Devotion feats must thematically align with the character (alignment, etc).

This last is of course pertinent to the cleric of ideals, but a swift hunter/cleric with travel devotion sounds legit.

[RNightstalker]

Which feats?

[/Spoiler]

As it looks like you're going for Ranged attack:
You get Rapid Shot, Manyshot, and Improved Precise Shot feat from Combat Styles, so it could look like:
R4-Point Blank Shot
R8-Far Shot
R11-Improved Rapid Shot
R14-Improved Favored Enemy

Shot on the Run definitely fits into the style you seem to want to play, but it requires good ole Dodge and Mobility, some of the most worthless feats in the game.

Also talk to your DM and see if there's any bend as the list is alotta restrictive.