About the Pact Of The Talisman and Bonus Pages

[Undyne]

So, I have the UA with the feature swap thing. I'm a fan of Warlock (2nd favorite class, only Druid is better) and I'm just curious- I love the concept of the talisman, but do you all think its any good compared to the other boons? What about the bonus page invocations for Pact Of The Tome?

[Mitchellnotes]

I think the pact of the talisman is a bit hard to weigh. The base feature is a bit.. meh, i think the limitations on it are a bit harsh, the teleporting is a bit hard to weigh, and the +d4 is pretty good...except when compared to the new level 9 features.

Chainlocks get a great bonus action attack (on a class that doesnt generally have a great native bonus action), the tomelocks get the pages (which to answer your oyher question, given the number of names can be equal to the cha modifier makes it really good i think). So is it better to have +d4 to all saves for one person or be able to bounce probably anyone in the party back up as a reaction?

I think talisman at the moment is a little underwhelming in comparison, but appreciate the overall ideas. I think it needs a bit more oomph at level 3. If it applied to all checks, or if the scaling die increased? It might be a bit better.

[Undyne]

I think the pact of the talisman is a bit hard to weigh. The base feature is a bit.. meh, i think the limitations on it are a bit harsh, the teleporting is a bit hard to weigh, and the +d4 is pretty good...except when compared to the new level 9 features.

Chainlocks get a great bonus action attack (on a class that doesnt generally have a great native bonus action), the tomelocks get the pages (which to answer your oyher question, given the number of names can be equal to the cha modifier makes it really good i think). So is it better to have +d4 to all saves for one person or be able to bounce probably anyone in the party back up as a reaction?

I think talisman at the moment is a little underwhelming in comparison, but appreciate the overall ideas. I think it needs a bit more oomph at level 3. If it applied to all checks, or if the scaling die increased? It might be a bit better.

Alright, noted- But what about the invocations for Talisman? How would you rate them?

Edit: Ignore what I said, I didn't realize you included the invocations in your description.

[Kane0]

It's not terrible, certainly not as bad as the shade that gets thrown at undying patron or non-hexblade blade pact locks. At the same time it's not a complete powerhouse, which probably means its fairly well balanced.

[jaappleton]

I thoroughly enjoy the Talisman as the 'default' option.

Blade is for gishes. People that want to blend spells and weapon attacks. Totally fine, if that's your thing.

Chain is for pet lovers. And the new invocations they get make them MUCH better. Their special familiars offer varying bonuses, but I myself am not a minionmancer, its just not my thing. But I see and understand the appeal.

Tome yields great utility.

What if you didn't want to be a gish, or didn't want a pet? That only left you with Tome. Which was... fine. But it kinda felt like the choice was made for you. Not that you were making the selection. It was simply process of elimination, which... Never sat well with me, especially in a game all about player choice.

Having Talisman is WONDERFUL just from that perspective!

[Mitchellnotes]

I agree that talisman is a great idea,but like the transmuter stone and to a certain extent bardic inspiration, the talisman itself is a feature that is hard bc it seems in some way to exist in this odd "do i keep it or give it to someone?" space, esp with the extra invocations, that makes it hard to weigh. None of the other options have to make that same choice

[Corran]

I agree that talisman is a great idea,but like the transmuter stone and to a certain extent bardic inspiration, the talisman itself is a feature that is hard bc it seems in some way to exist in this odd "do i keep it or give it to someone?" space, esp with the extra invocations, that makes it hard to weigh. None of the other options have to make that same choice
It's pretty good when you split the party to do something risky that you hope it will pay off. Such as when scouting ahead alone, or when disguising yourself and infiltrating a dangerous place in the hope of getting some crucial bit of knowledge, etc. Being able to pass this benefit means that since now any one pc can profit from it, there will be more cases where it will be worth considering investing in such high risk high reward behavior, since everyone can be part of the fun (taking turns), and since any such situation might call for the talents of a different pc. In such cases, the teleport is a pretty good way to mitigate the risk. I am guessing that a good rule of thumb as to how to value it, would be if you are playing in the sort of game where the party does everything together or not. If it's the latter, then this invocation creates incentive to do risky things which can create for some funny and memorable moments.