Possible Coffelock alternative?

[Phhase]

Alright, so Wild Soul Barbarian is widely regarded as laughably bad. Although I would like your takes as to why, I did notice something interesting about it. At 6th level, you get the ability to take up to 20 force damage in exchange for restoring a spell slot of up to 4th level to anyone, increasing to 30 and 6th at 12th level.

And it doesn't say anywhere that you can't target yourself.

Can anyone think of a build that could take advantage of this feature to generate tons of spell slots? I've already identified the Chainlock invocation Gift of the Ever-Living Ones as a strong synergistic option (All healing is Maximized). The main problem is the number of levels required (Barb 6), and the fact that you can't cast while raging (Although note that you don't need to rage in order to create spell slots).

Also, side question, what's your folks interpretation on Life Transference's wording? While I'm pretty sure RAI is that you can't target yourself, the wording is a little murky.

[nickl_2000]

It may be interesting if you did it on a Moon Druid. Healing Spirit would heal plenty of hit point to make up for the loss, you could hurt your wild shape forms to get spells back, and you could be a rage bear if you liked.

[No brains]

UA Revenant gets back hp while under half HP. A Barbarian could have way more than 80 hp if they prioritize constitution.

[DarknessEternal]

It's certainly a cool idea, but a character that doesn't come online until level 13 seems pretty underwhelming.

[Phhase]

It's certainly a cool idea, but a character that doesn't come online until level 13 seems pretty underwhelming.

So...Decaf Coffeelock? :smalltongue:

[Anderlith]

So...Decaf Coffeelock? :smalltongue:

If it’s based around taking force damage you could call it espresso barbarian?

[HiveStriker]

I made myself the same reflexion when seeing the Wild Soul Barbarian...
But this thread made my day. I love you guys. XD

[Lupine]

If it restores spell slots, maybe paladin?

[micahaphone]

With Divine Soul, you could slap a Death Ward onto yourself, then Damn The Consequences!

Hope your group is up for a short rest after that

[Teaguethebean]

If you get your hands on force resistance from rong of resistance or a brooch of shielding you can give your whole team a lot of temp hp. Basically reuse it on yourself until you roll a 4 giving you 10thp than use it on your friend and if you roll a 4 they get 20thp and you are back down to none the repeat. In game this would take around 5.2 minutes to give 20thp to all of your allies and 10thp to yourself. One hell of a boost if i do say. At lv14 this jumps to 30 for teammates and 15 for yourself. Though it would then take 11.4 minutes

[Fable Wright]

A 4th level spell deals 20 damage.

A 4th level Healing Spirit heals 105.

The class is a bit of a joke because your best feature is literally just being an infinite spell battery for the full casters, which doesn't add any tactical fun to the Barbarian.

You turn ALL the party casters into Coffeelocks.

Honestly, the subclass should just be called 'Starbucks'. Complete with the occasional exploding flumph on a coffee high.

[Contrast]

Alright, so Wild Soul Barbarian is widely regarded as laughably bad. Although I would like your takes as to why, I did notice something interesting about it. At 6th level, you get the ability to take up to 20 force damage in exchange for restoring a spell slot of up to 4th level to anyone, increasing to 30 and 6th at 12th level.

What? The subclass is far too broken to ever see print solely because of this ability. :smallconfused:

[Phhase]

What? The subclass is far too broken to ever see print solely because of this ability. :smallconfused:

Idunno, I've always thought everyone thought it was weak and gimmicky. Maybe I'm just crazy.

Anyhow, I've found a few interesting things. In addition to Armor/Ring of Force Resistance and the Brooch of Shielding, there's a new item in ERLW, the Orb/Crystal of Shielding. It lets you use your reaction to reduce an elemental attack on you by 1d4 damage, and has a Force variant (Shavarran Chert). It does require you to have a level in a spellcasting class to attune it, but you probably already do if you're playing Starbuckbarian.

Song of Defense from Bladesinger is also a strong contender, although it does require your reaction and a spell slot.

[MaxWilson]

Alright, so Wild Soul Barbarian is widely regarded as laughably bad.

By whom? I remember when it came out, everybody thought it was bonkers overpowered, due to the ability to efficiently convert healing spells into infinite spell slots for the entire party. There may have been other aspects that were overpowered (I remember being impressed by maybe the necrotic aura?) but spell slot creation was by far the most abusable.

All it takes is another PC with access to Aura of Vitality or Healing Spirit and suddenly Bob's your uncle.

[LudicSavant]

Alright, so Wild Soul Barbarian is widely regarded as laughably bad

Laughably badly designed, perhaps. But weak? The optimization community (myself included) was calling this thing out as insanity unfit for print even by UA standards within minutes of it being posted.

[VariSami]

I am sorely disappointed that no one has made the joke of calling a Barbarian optimised for 'caffeinating' caster...

The Barbarista.

[Monster Manuel]

Ranger can do Healing Spirit at level 5. With the right subclass, a Ranger/WildSoul barbarian could churn out free spell slots while self-healing from the damage, and is even kind of thematically and mechanically sound, given the whole wilderness thing, and the extra damage that most Ranger subclasses can do on a weapon attack. Still doesn't come online until 9th level, but still...

[micahaphone]

I think people's disagreement about Wild Soul barb comes down to what you're focusing on. A barb's subclass is usually primarily looked at for how it augments your rage. Wild Soul puts a fun but unpredictable buff onto your rages. By my count, 3/8 of the possible effects could harm your allies (necrotic damage to all nearby, suicide bomber flumphs scattering randomly, and difficult terrain plant growth), which is a bit tough to control and is frustrating as to when you should activate rage.

The free detect magic, hellish rebuke against a saving throw, are all nice but rarely needed. Giving out spell slots (or temp hp) at severe personal cost seems like you'd rarely use it except in times of great need, or if you have a min/max combo planned out with your allies. Forum talk and analysis definitely skews towards finding such strong combos, which means some forum goers* will rate the subclass very highly, but when considering your average party with no pre-planned synergies or mechanical combos, I feel the subclass would be good but not as good as zealot or totem.




*Is there a term for users of Giantitp? playgroundites?

[Danielqueue1]

l, or if you have a min/max combo planned out with your allies. Forum talk and analysis definitely skews towards finding such strong combos, which means some forum goers* will rate the subclass very highly, but when considering your average party with no pre-planned synergies or mechanical combos, I feel the subclass would be good but not as good as zealot or totem.

*Is there a term for users of Giantitp? playgroundites?

having an ally with cure wounds is now considered a min-max combo!

A level 1 (5 damage)
cure wounds is going to heal 5-12 hp at this level (+4 mod) garanteeing being able to match or out heal.
Healing word can too, but you barely get anything out of it.
Goodberry is a guaranteed 10 hp

At level 2 (10 damage)
Healing word has 6-12 so falls off here.
Cure wounds heals for 6-20 (average 13) so is a good bet
Goodberry still matches at 10 but other options are better.
Healing spirit heals for 10-60 (average 35) over a minute allowing barbarian to due his thing multiple times for 1 spell slot.

Level 3 (15 damage)
Cure wounds is still averaging 17.5 , less reliable, but still a net gain.
Healing spirit is putting out 20-120 and makes the paltry 15 damage you take a joke. Might as well top off the whole party while you are at it.
Aura of vitality is doing the same healing as healing spirit with more specific targetting. So you don't need a druid to laugh in the face of the adventuring day.

Level 4 (20 damage)
Cure wounds steadily gets worse here, but still averages 22. With +4 mod in wis. (Life cleric gets 28)
Healing spirit and aura of vitality are both putting out 30-180 allowing the barb to easily spam until everyone is full.

If you want to talk about min-maxed combos, let me introduce you to druids with a grand total of 1 level of life domain cleric with +5 wis.
Level 1
cure wounds heals 9-16
Goodberry heals 40

Level 2
Cure wounds heals 11-25
Goodberry heals 50
Healing spirit heals an average of 75 over 10 rounds with 5-10 hp per round.

Level 3
Lets skip the chump change and look at healing spirit again. Average of 120 hp in heals for the barbarian taking 15 points of damage.

Level 4 it just gets worse.

This isn't some min-maxed coordinated issue, any party with a bard (magic secrets), life domain cleric (any cleric would do but life makes it easier), druid (any kind) paladin, or ranger can abuse this barbarians power without any real issue.

(I've hear people call it playgrounders but not sure if it is official)

[micahaphone]

Sure, but if you're using a slot of that level to undo the damage from generating a slot, it's kind of a wash. Best deal is that the barb gives a slot or two back to the sorcerer in the party (assuming they're missing a slot of levels 1-4), and the healing optimized party member uses a spell slot to undo that damage to the barb, so you effectively just transferred a slot from one caster to another.

I'll admit I skipped healing spirit, partially because in my anecdotal experience I've not played with any druids or any rangers that take that spell, making me forget about it,
and also partially skipped it because the healing output is absolutely ridiculous. Prayer of Healing is clearly supposed to be a 2nd level out of combat heal, and doing a healing spirit conga line feels scummy to me.

All of the above paragraph is entirely personal tastes and experiences, so I did skip some viable build advice.




--------
edit that's preaching to the choir I'm sure: how the hell did Healing Spirit get printed in it's current form. I'd be fine with it being an interesting persistent heal moving around and helping in combat, kind of a healing word but with concentration. But when looking at out of combat party heals, one class gets 2d8+wis for a 10 min cast, and the others get 10D6 20D6 for a 1 minute cast! I know there's several fixes floating about, but it's just so egregious.

[Fable Wright]

Sure, but if you're using a slot of that level to undo the damage from generating a slot, it's kind of a wash. Best deal is that the barb gives a slot or two back to the sorcerer in the party (assuming they're missing a slot of levels 1-4), and the healing optimized party member uses a spell slot to undo that damage to the barb, so you effectively just transferred a slot from one caster to another.

Or, and hear me out here, you use the ability twice.

"Gosh, I am a barbarian at level 7 with more than 25 health. Sorcerer, have some extra spell.

"Life Cleric, you appear to be down a 1st level slot. Let me replenish that.

"Oh, you're now healing me for 1d8+8 damage? Thanks, but now you're down a 1st level slot. Allow us to repeat the transaction."

After a few repetitions, the life cleric has effectively expended no slots, and the Barbarian is at (max -5) hit points. If we repeat this, suddenly all 4th level or lower slots in the party are refreshed, though the Barbarian is down all of 5 hit points for the next fight.

[Danielqueue1]

It's in the repetition. Start with a balanced party after an impossibly hard fight. Everyone at 1 hp and no resources except the barbarian with 21 HP. Any of the listed party members without optimization even just basic cure wounds can unlimited cycle to heal the barbarian for more damage than he takes until the barbarian can afford to do it twice before healing. Then use that extra slot to heal someone else in the party. Repeat until everyone's at full.

Then if even one druid exists (not optimized, just prepared healing spirit today) or one life domain cleric, or one paladin with aura of vitality, or one bard who picked one of the above with magical secrets. Suddenly that careful repetition becomes wholesale recharge. "YOU GET A SPELL SLOT! AND YOU GET A SPELL SLOT!" A single casting of Aura of vitality (you didn't like healing spirit) targeting this barbarian will turn a 3rd level spell slot into an average of 14 levels worth of spells.

And that is without a single multiclass level or class feature.

Since you mentioned prayer of healing, barbarian takes 10 damage giving the cleric a second level slot. Cleric casts prayer of healing to heal the whole party for 2d8+4 (+4 for life clerics) averaging 13 HP(17) meaning barbarian can do it again and until everyone is full health. No optimization required.

[XmonkTad]

Keep in mind that the UA specifically states that this recovers EXPENDED spell slots. It falls short of a true coffeelock where you have stored up huge numbers of spells beyond your usual limits. OTOH, the version I'm seeing on D&D beyond allows for you to occasionally restore a 6th level spell slot, something the coffeelock cannot do.

However, the barbarian is very nice for any party with casters and at least one person who can cast healing spirit. Now you can drop the healing spirit and have the barbarian run around restoring spell slots. Shouldn't be too hard to get a 2-for-1 in terms of slots recovered for slots spent.


I am sorely disappointed that no one has made the joke of calling a Barbarian optimized for 'caffeinating' caster...

The Barbarista.
Amazing. Barbarista is perfection.