How many creatures have more than four arms?

[Aotrs Commander]

("Arms" as specifically defined, for the purposes of this thread as "can wield a weapon.")

So. Due to my usual long, meandering rules-wandering, I am pondering Multi Weapon Fighting. PF1 definitely has some debatable issues on how MWF is supposed to work (which to some extent don't bother me because I added IMWF, GMWF and PMWF), but on considering the Kali chained summoner1 eidolon option (and how no-one wants at 20th level for something to have, like, 72 attacks to roll2 (or at least no-one other than That One Player), got me thinking about MWF, and at what point should a creature simply not be able to use all its arms to make sensible attacks ahnd how I ought to write in stone how I think MWF should work.

Now, looking around, I can only find discussions of characters with four arms. So, the question arose, ARE there creatures that actually have lots and lots of arms? (Anything in Starfinder can be assumed to be omitted.)
I can only think of two, across 3.5 and Pathfinder 1.

Marelith (6 arms)

Hecatoncheires (way too many)

(And if PF1, both of these have special racial abilities pertaining to their multiple arms.)

'Cos, I'm thinking, if MWF FUNCTIONALLY just means "4-weapon fighting," I can tidy things up a bit (for instance, adding a flat cap to the number of limbs you can use to make weapon attacks per round or something.) Thus, if the number of creatures with more than four arms is basiclly down to no more than single digit instances, I can sort out MWF wit an eye to fundementally say "fours arms is the max, functionally" and those creatures with more arms can just keep their own special rules for it.

So, then, people more familiar with the bestiaries than I am, ARE there any more creatures with the capability to potentially wield more than four weapons at once?




1I'm idly considering making a "maybe just slightly chained a little bit" summoner, which would use the unchained spell list and just have the worst edges skimmed off the chained eidolons.

[sup]2Okay, thanks to Accelerate & Attack, I actually do have more than enough mini-D20 to actually roll 72 attacks rolls fairly easily, but that's not the point.

[Zaq]

Do the arms need to exist/be functional all day every day? If not, there are some spells and items and similar effects that can help.

[Aotrs Commander]

Do the arms need to exist/be functional all day every day? If not, there are some spells and items and similar effects that can help.

Worth taking into consideration, I suppose.

[The Viscount]

Odopi from MMIII is a ball of arms, man, and they can throw stones, so I assume they can use other weapons.

[PraxisVetli]

Draegloths from Monsters of Faerun are half Drow half Glabrezu fiends with 4 arms.
Also, Thri-Kreen from either Com Psi or Expanded Psi also have 4 arms and absolutely can wield weapons.

And I think there's a feat that lets trolls cut arms off of other trolls and attach them to themselves thanks to their Regeneration.

[Aotrs Commander]

Draegloths from Monsters of Faerun are half Drow half Glabrezu fiends with 4 arms.
Also, Thri-Kreen from either Com Psi or Expanded Psi also have 4 arms and absolutely can wield weapons.

And I think there's a feat that lets trolls cut arms off of other trolls and attach them to themselves thanks to their Regeneration.

Looking for explictly more than four arms, as I know stuff like thri-kreen and kasantha have four (and are the things most likely to be using MWF).

I thought girallons might, until I looked it up and they only have four arms as well.

[Tzardok]

Spell weavers have six, but they are primarily arcane spellcasters and next to never use weapons.

[unseenmage]

Do Awakened/Anthropomorphic octopi/squid count?

[ExLibrisMortis]

The Obah-Blessed template can add four arms to creatures with two or four arms.

[Remuko]

I know you already mentioned the Hecaton but did you read its entry? It has built in rules about how many of its arms can be used in melee against foes of a given size (iirc). You could adopt this as a general rule

[legomaster00156]

Mariliths have 6 arms.

[ViperMagnum357]

Not a creature per se, but the Fang of Lolth PRC from Song and Silence gains 4 extra arms at 9th level. Retractable, claw attacks, and can explicitly use weapons, which can turn anyone into a melee blender. A Thri-kreen with the 4 arm version of the Obah-Blessed template and 9 levels in Fang of Lolth has 12 permanent, natural arms that can wield weapons.

[Psyren]

Here's some more with six arms:

Lhaksharut (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/inevitable/inevitable-lhaksharut/) inevitables (Bestiary 2)

Asurendra (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/asura/asura-asurendra/) asura (Bestiary 3) - note that the blurb erroneously says 4, but the statblock and art both say six.

Izfiitar (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/protean/protean-izfiitar/) proteans (Bestiary 6)

The Mutant template (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/mutant-cr-1/) (Numeria splat) lets you make a creature with up to 7 arms if you start from a 2-armed base, and they get MWF for free if they end up with more than two.

[RaiKirah]

The Insectile Creature template (LA+1) from Savage Species gives four extra arms, but it specifically says you don't get extra attacks (though it seems it's RAI is for no additional natural attacks, not for being unable to use the limbs)

The Aberrant Limbs option from the DMG2 can add two arms for LA +1, though it seems intended as a DM only option despite a listed LA.

[Aotrs Commander]

Hmm. A modest number, but a lot of templates and stuff and the things that have more only have about six.


I know you already mentioned the Hecaton but did you read its entry? It has built in rules about how many of its arms can be used in melee against foes of a given size (iirc). You could adopt this as a general rule

That's essentially what I might be looking towards, yes.



I also did some thinking (and reading) on IMWF and why PF didn't explictly either add it or specify that it replaced TWF in pre-reqs. I think there may have been a thought that (assuming that almost unilaterally, multi-armed creatures have four or more arms, and MOSTLY four arms) regular MWF was essentially better than TWF/ITWF/GTWF and front loaded... Since if you have four arms, with greater MWF, at 16 BAB, you're getting the same number of attacks (4 primary plus 3 off-hand) just on that than with all the feats, plus a) you're front-loaded, soince you get it from the start and b) you only take the -2/-4 penalty on the off-hand attacks, not the -5/-10 for the ITWF/GTWF to get those iterative off-hand attacks.

(And the reason for playing multiple arms seems to be biased towards MWF for all the extra attacks...)

So there's that.

So, I think maybe there is a reaonable balance limitation that you could say something like:

"When wielding multiple weapons, you cannot make more weapon attacks in a single Full Attack action than 8 or, or twice your number of arms, whichever is higher. If you have potentially more iterative attacks than this number, you may freely choose which attacks to make. For instance, if you have six arms and [improved multiweapon fighting] and a BAB of 16, you could choose to make your full iterative attacks with your primary hand (+16/+11/+6/+1), one attack from each offhand +16 x 5 and three iterative offhand attacks (+11 x 3) from three of your offhands, or you could simply choose to make one attack and the iterative attack with each hand (i.e. +16 x 6, +11 x 6)."

(Also, note, in my specific case, if a creature has TWF/MWF, they also get full damage on the offhand without having to spend a feat tax on double-slice or something, which means the latter option would be strictly better unless you have particulalry different weapons or something.)


Rationale being simply that in six seconds, there's only so many weapons you can swing without them physically getting in each other's way.



This stills gives a fairly big advantage to multi-armed creatures (since it effecively means they have less of a necessary feat tax for getting extra attacks), but without going to, like fifty attacks per round or something.



And then for stuff like mariliths, they have their special feats anyway, and you could maybe have a special multiweapon fighting version of Whirlwind attack (without the silly pre-reqs, which I've done away with myself) to ape the PF hectocheire.

Actually, I could probalnly eliminate MWF as a feat line altogether and just add some relevant text to TWF under "Special."



Sound reasonable?

[martixy]

I don't know any additional creatures other than what's already been said, but:
1. DMG2 has a bunch of unique abilities that can be bestowed upon a creature, one of which grants a pair of extra arms or legs.
2. Since you mentioned Pathfinder, the subsystem for Creating new races (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/creating-new-races) allows one to add a pair of extra arms.
3. There a bunch of grafts that stitch extra arms to creatures.
4. There is a feat in Savage Species that allows a tail to be used as an extra arm. There are also tail grafts.
5. Generally arms are considered natural abilities and come with all perks of having normal arms (such as wielding weapons), unless not otherwise specified. So you can also polymorph in multi-arm creatures. Additionally, per the Monster Manual MWF replaces TWF for creatures with more than 2 arms.