Expanded Doppelganger bloodline

[from]

Let me start off by apologizing for posting in the wrong forum or subforum, or using the wrong terminology - I'm a n00b!

The variant rules on Bloodlines feature bloodlines, some detailed as Minor/Intermediate/Major, others as only Minor/Intermediate and some as only Minor. The page do state general guidelines for how to create your own custom bloodline, so I gave expanding the Doppelganger bloodline a go. I based it off the existing Minor bloodline and the Doppelganger racial stats.

Bloodline rules:
d20srd DOT org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm

Doppelganger stats:
d20srd DOT org/srd/monsters/doppelganger.htm





Character level
Minor
Intermediate
Major


1st
-
-
+2 on Disguise checks


2nd
-
+2 on Disguise checks
Alter self 1/day (Sp)


3rd
-
-
Charisma +1


4th
+2 on Disguise checks
Alter self 1/day (Sp)
Detect thoughts 1/day (Sp)


5th
-
-
Doppelganger affinity +2


6th
-
Charisma +1
Dodge


7th
-

+2 on Bluff checks


8th
Alter self 1/day (Sp)
Detect thoughts 1/day (Sp)
Low-light vision


9th
-
-
Wisdom +1


10th
-
Doppelganger affinity +2
+1 to natural armor


11th
-
-
Doppelganger affinity +4


12th
Charisma +1
Dodge
Great Fortitude


13th
-
-
+2 on Sense Motive checks


14th
-
+2 on Bluff checks
Alter self +1/day (Sp)


15th
-
-
Intelligence +1


16th
Detect thoughts 1/day (Sp)
Low-light vision
Detect thoughts +1/day (Sp)


17th
-
-
Doppelganger affinity +6


18th
-
Wisdom +1
+1 to natural armor


19th
-
-
+2 on Listen checks


20th
Doppelganger affinity +2
+1 to natural armor
Immunity to sleep and charm effects




Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions for improvements? I've tried to keep it in line with existing bloodlines and avoid powergaming in favour of flavour. Are bloodlines in their entirety just to OP for this to be worth discussing at all?

The final Immunity seems a bit strong, in particular, but I noted that the official Dragon major bloodlines include immunities (to fire, cold, etc), so including the Doppelgangers' weaker (I think?) Immunity felt natural enough. :smallredface:

[aimlessPolymath]

The bloodline as a whole is entirely fine. You give up 1-3 whole levels to get it, except in some weird corner cases that can be optimized without regard to the actual bloodline involved.

Your concept is mostly a solid fit, though some of the special abilities- darkvision and horrible taste- are fairly 'off' in my opinion, and you could probably customize something more special, since they are gained at high level. Maybe an ability, while you have Alter Self active, to change the form it gives you once per round? Maybe a second use of Alter Self/Detect Thoughts, since those are so closely tied to the doppleganger experience?

[from]

Your concept is mostly a solid fit, though some of the special abilities- darkvision and horrible taste- are fairly 'off' in my opinion, and you could probably customize something more special, since they are gained at high level.

Yeah, I was grasping a bit at that point. I had some ideas, but they felt a bit too strong, so I started combing through the Transmutation spell list for ideas. Horrible taste felt...well, more fun than anything else, and since Doppelgangers have Darkvision, a once-daily boost of the already included Low-Light vision felt possible. But more uses of Alter self and Detect thoughts do feel better integrated with the concept as a whole, so I changed the table. Thanks!