Wizard: School of chronomancy

[CLAY MORE]

I guess it's an overdone concept... but here's my take on it, for you to criticize and fix. I've few concerns:
-How strong is Time Lapse? This features steps on the foot of the Lore Bard Inspiration/Cutting words shenanings, but I find difficult to balance around them.
-I'm no native speaker, and the wording of One with the Flow doesn't sound clear enough to me (the rest clause is here to prevent loops with Time Weaver). Could you please help me clean it up?

WIZARD: SCHOOL OF CHRONOMANCY
Chronomancers, also known as Time Magicians, are spellcasters found in a large number of RPG franchises. Most of their iconic spells like Haste, Slow, Time Stop and Meteor Swarm are scattered within the 5th edition, but the whole archetype is hard to reproduce using existing subclasses as chassis. This paper fixes the problem by introducing a new option for the Wizard, called School of Chronomancy.

TIME LAPSE
Starting at 2nd level when you choose this school, your comprehension of time gives you limited control over it, such as stopping its flow to help your allies and hinder your enemies. Whenever a creature you can see makes an attack roll, ability check or saving throw between your turns, you can use your reaction to roll a d4: add or subtract the result to that creature’s roll. You can use this feature a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence modifier (min.1), and regain all spent uses after a long rest.
Your ability grows as you gain levels in this class, allowing you to stop time for longer frames. From 11th level onwards, you can roll a d6 instead of a d4 while using this feature; the dice becomes a d8 when you reach 20th level.

TIME WEAVER
Beginning at 6th level, you learn how to "store" the time trimmed by your spells, for you to use in a later moment. Whenever you cast the Haste or Slow spells, you regain one use of your Time Lapse feature.

REWIND
At 10th level, you tighten your grasp over the fabric of time, tapping into the ability to undo events happened in the last couple seconds. Whenever you or another creature you can see rolls a d20, you can use your reaction and spend two uses of Time Lapse to negate the result of that roll, and force that creature to roll again.

ONE WITH THE FLOW
At 14th level you’ve learned how to bind time at your biddings, creating “pocket dimension” for you and your allies to move within. You can use a bonus action and spend all your remaining uses of Time Lapse (at least 2) to give yourself or another creature an additional Action, which takes place immediately after your turn ends. That creature still has her normal turn in the Initiative bracket, and can act twice during the same round. Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

To answer your questions upfront, Time Lapse is fine, if on the weaker side, and One with the Flow's wording is fine (though the fluff implies it affects multiple allies at once while the mechanics target just one).

That aside, I have two points of general criticism on this subclass:

1) Thematically, it's...not interesting. When I hear "chronomancer" I expect to see all sorts of time-related shenanigans. Maybe some mini-time stop effects at mid levels or bonus haste castings, maybe freezing enemies in time or letting allies act first, stuff like that. This class consists of "add or subtract dice from things," "add or subtract dice from things more often," "reroll a die," and "give out a free action," the first three of which are purely numerical and the last of which is nice but doesn't give any new options, just lets someone use an option they already have out-of-turn.

2) Mechanically, it's fairly weak:
Time Lapse is basically Bardic Inspiration with smaller dice but usable as a reaction. The reaction part is definitely nice, but you can hand out Bardic Inspiration to multiple allies ahead of time to potentially use all in the same round whereas you only have one reaction, so it's kind of a wash there, and the smaller die is just a flat downgrade. Yes, it's nice to try not to step on the bard's toes given that the features are so similar, but just the reaction-for-pre-buffing tradeoff is probably fine.
Along the same proactive-vs.-reactive lines, Time Weaver basically amounts to "whenever you cast haste/slow, you also cast guidance on someone" at the level you get it. Nice, sure, but not 6th-level-class-feature nice when the Magic Initiate feat can do more and do it earlier (yes, yes, feats are optional etc., but a class feature being 1/3 of a feat still isn't great).
Compare Rewind to Portent. Rewind is 2/day (assuming 18-20 Int) plus half the number of haste spells you cast, so theoretically up to 6/day but only if you blow every possible spell slot on haste so 2-3/day is more reasonable; it lets you force an enemy to reroll something, but might result in the enemy rolling better than before; and comes at level 10. Portent is 2/day flat, lets you force a known-bad roll on an enemy or give a known-good roll to an ally, and comes at level 2. There's a narrow window where Rewind is better if you spam haste like there's no tomorrow, but otherwise it's fairly anemic and comes too late for what it does.
Extra actions for someone in the party are always useful, but a single extra action, at 14th level, burning lots of uses of your other class features? Fairly underwhelming. And as with Rewind, this is similar to a 2nd-level class feature (the fighter's Action Surge) but 12 levels later, and being able to give someone else an action instead of yourself is good but not necessarily wait-12-levels good.

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So, how would I spruce this up? Two potential approaches:

1) Keep the same mechanics of those features but beef them up. Maybe increase the die size on Time Lapse and/or have it "echo" so after you use it on someone they get another die a few rounds later, maybe have Time Weaver give back more uses if haste/Slow is cast from a higher-level slot and/or let you convert back the other way like sorcery points, maybe make Rewind cheaper when used on a willing creature and/or let you use it to undo non-dice-roll actions, maybe let One with the Flow give multiple people actions and/or have it give out a full turn, stuff like that.

(All of that together might be too powerful, obviously, just throwing out some ideas.)

2) Keep the same general flavor for those features but rework the mechanics. Time Lapse is about briefly stopping time, so maybe it could reduce enemies' speed or stop enemies mid-move, freeze spells and projectiles mid-air, briefly freeze allies in time to make them immune to an attack, and so on. Time Weaver is about moving slivers of time around, so maybe it could let you "save" actions or speed in one round and use them in another (like Readying on steroids), "split up" spells' durations (e.g. a 1-minute spell could be active for 2 rounds, suppressed for a few rounds, then active for 8 more rounds) for better utility, hit an ally with haste and an enemy with slow in the same action (as if you're stealing time from the enemy to give to the ally), and so on.

Rewind is about undoing or replaying the last few seconds, so maybe it could force an enemy to choose a different action or a different target for their action, let an ally refresh a spell slot they just used, give someone super-advantage on a roll (flavored as "they just tried that, then you rewound time, now they're trying it again with advance knowledge of how to succeed at their task"), and so on. One with the flow is about creating pockets in time, so maybe it could trap enemies in a time loop where they repeat the same actions over and over, let allies use some hit dice and/or refresh some abilities as if they'd compressed part of a short rest into a few seconds, let multiple allies teleport around as if they'd walked there while time was frozen, and so on.

Basically, think big and wild and crazy. It's much easier to come up with a set of really cool abilities that might be on the strong side and nerf or restrict them until the package is more balanced than it is to take some straightforward and balanced but lackluster abilities and improve them until they're awesome without making them overpowered because there's not much to work with.

[Trandir]

I don't like time lapse. It's a far better version of the wild sorcerer 6th level feature.
Also comparing time laps with bardic inspiration isn't fair you can use that to debuff a creature save, that is priceless.


Anyway after second level the whole subclass is pretty boring, you get nothing exiting and rely on a very limited resource to use your 10th and 14th level features.

Also the mechanic of this subclass seems more fitting to a "luckmancer" than a chronomancer you might want to change some features entirely.

[Damon_Tor]

I don't object to the class features being subtle: a wizard is about spells more than features.

Write some dynamite new time-oriented spells and we can call it good.

"Alter History" as a 9th level spell sounds good, wish-like in applications and consequences.
Maybe a 6th or 7th level spell where you can summon yourself to help you from a minute in the future and when the spell ends your future self doesn't vanish, you do. Because you just went back in time to help yourself. You continue to play as your future self.
A 4th level spell that increases the time that passes for a nonmagical object, so you can rust chains to nothing or grow a sapling into a tree.
A 5th level spell that increases the duration of another spell you cast
A 3rd level reaction spell that lets you undo a spell you cast yourself this turn. Maybe you didn't like the results for some reason. Allows you to recover the spell slot used in the canceled spell.

[mictrepanier]

I adapted the work from Ziegander from 2017 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?523617-The-Time-Knight-A-Base-class-w-No-Archetypes&highlight=time+knight ) as a sorcerer origin. With little changes, it may be changed to a wizard school... The wizard highest level for the school content is 14th, a little low for the time master ability. I often commented the ability in () at the end of the paragraph...

Sorcerer (sphinx origin, the only monster in MM with lair actions modifying time, or any other explanation)


Quick on Your Feet

Starting at 1st level you add your Proficiency bonus to Initiative checks and may Disengage as a bonus action on your turn (to dash, use expeditous retreat).

Combat Reflexes
Also from 1st level, You can get as many extra reactions in a round as your dexterity modifier (minimum of once). (useful for hellish rebuke or multiclassed characters using weapons).

Bonus spells
You get knowledge of bonus spells. Expeditous retreat at level 1, hold person at level 3, haste and slow at level 5 and hold monster at level 7. (maybe too many spells for a sorcerer ? Not the same issue for a wizard)...

Splitting Seconds
At 6th level and beyond you may take up to two bonus actions on your turn. Note that you don't get quickened spell for free that way. It is otherwise possible to use a bonus action to release the action of a spell you already concentrate on, quicken a spell as the second bonus action and cast a cantrip, all on the same round.

Cooccurrence matrix
From 14th level, you may store an action to use before the next long rest once (an effective fighter surge effect).

Time master
From 18th level therafter, you may come back in time. Using a 7th level slot, 1 round earlier or 1 day as a ritual. With a 8th level slot, 10 minutes earlier or 1 year as a ritual. With a 9th level spell, 1 day earlier or indefinitely as a ritual. The previous timeline events are disregarded. Usual litterature limitations and effects for such a feat as well as Wish limitations may apply on DM's call (at worst, the spellcaster is useless after coming back in time, but it may save the day for the characters party).

All these abilities (from 1st level ones to time master can cost extra sorcery points for balance sake...

For the wizard, no sorcery points to add to the balance...
I can easily use the same abilities as 2-6-14th level arcane traditions. At 10th level, a buffed version of time master ? (then a wizard only get a 5th level spell at best.) Time master scales well, always using a better spell. It may be fun, it beyong regular D&d spell scope, but is also a possible cause of abuse from the players...

[GalacticAxekick]

I think that for the Chronomancer to work, you'll need to introduce a variety of time-related spells to the game. Chronomancers who spend their turns shooting magic missiles and fireballs—only occasionally casting Haste, Slow and Time Stop—aren't thematically vivid.

Some ideas, for starters:
A cantrip called "Mulligan" that rewinds time slightly. When you or a creature you can see makes an attack roll or ability check, you can rewind time to the moment before they did. If the creature repeats the same action, they get the original result, and so this cantrip CAN'T be used to reroll. Instead, it can be used to look for alternatives to certain failure. "Your attack is going to miss, so dodge". "Your check is going to fail, so cast a spell"
A 1st level spell called "Deja Vu" that rewinds time significantly. At any time on your turn, you can use your reaction to return the start of your turn. Any events that transpired are undone, and any resources (such as actions, spell slots, movement) you spent are refunded, but you alone remember everything that happened. If you repeat the same actions, you get the same results, and so this spell CAN'T be used to reroll. Instead, it can be used to gather info in otherwise reckless ways.
A 1st level spell called "Hindsight" that lets you retroactively take one action. The retroactive action can occur any time in the last 8 hours, and can be anything you were capable of at the chosen moment. For example, "I buy X item while we were at the shop," "I leave a note on X's desk, which says Y" or "I cast X spell just before this battle". If the action you choose would prevent your past adventures from occurring at all, this spell fails, and you do not spend a spell slot. For example, you cannot retroactively kill a creature that you are currently fighting, and you cannot retroactively discard an item that you later used.
A 1st level spell called "Fast Forward" that lets you accelerate a creature 1 hour forward in time. The spell has no effect on its own, but it allows the creature to complete a short rest or to perform a ritual if they so choose. If the creature is concentrating on an effect that will end in an hour or less, the effect ends. And if the creature is under an effect that will end in an hour or less, the effect ends on that creature. An unwilling creature can make a Constitution saving throw to resist this effect.

I would also approach the Chronomancer features very differently. Rather than tying features to "Slow" and "Haste" (spells with relatively narrow use), I'd try to broaden the Chronomancer's command over time as much as possible.

Instead, I'd have features that represent Chronomancy on their own. For example:
"Ready For Anything: Starting at 2nd level, you develop a knack for preparing exactly the spells that you will later require. Instead of preparing spells at the end of a long rest, you can decide that a spell is prepared at the very moment that you cast it. You can continue to do so until you reach the maximum number of spells you can prepare. The list of spells you have prepared resets when you finish a long rest."
"If At First You Don't Succeed Starting at 6th level, you learn the Mulligan cantrip and the Deja Vu spell. If you already know either one of them, you learn a cantrip and a 1st level spell of your choice respectively. You can cast these spells without expending your reaction, allowing you to rewind time repeatedly and select the best possible course of action in any situation."

[mictrepanier]

GalacticAxekick, I think you refer (with your input) to https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Chronomancer_(5e_Class). Good stuff!

here are the basic question:

Paradigm 1: "Chronomancy" is an exclusive ability

Paradigm 2: Everyone can chronoport the same way they teleport (same spells) ; if 30' = 1 round , 1 mile = 20 minutes (round down), 30 000 miles = 1 year.

With a feat (as a ritual; for non casters) or as a normal spellcasting ability

Just use the teleport spells! As a reaction, re-do the entire round or the last round. The pro: use existing spells. The con: Of course, it is more job for the DM/can be abusive. I agree the action MUST be different.

So: Eladrin, warlock ability, etc and misty step (level 2 spell) to re-do the round or the last round (reaction or action spell)
Dimension door: come back in time a little more ( 500' = 2 minutes)
Also consider Teleportation circle , Teleport

Hindsight is cool. Fast-forward is OP. There are higher level spells for safe rest waiting for next hour or 8h. There are spells to remove fear, short-time afflictions, etc. Maybe as a 5th level spell ? If At First You Don't Succeed is too abusive...

ready for anything is already used for thousands of players who don't care about messing with preparation. It is basically spontaneous casting. Cool for a mage or a cleric!

[GalacticAxekick]

GalacticAxekick, I think you refer (with your input) to https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Chronomancer_(5e_Class). Good stuff!I wasn't aware of this homebrew class, and certainly wasn't referring to of it.


here are the basic question:These aren't questions. I'm not sure what you mean by this.


Paradigm 1: "Chronomancy" is an exclusive abilityI'm not sure what you mean by this.


Paradigm 2: Everyone can chronoport the same way they teleport (same spells) ; if 30' = 1 round , 1 mile = 20 minutes (round down), 30 000 miles = 1 year.Traveling far into the past demands a lot of bookkeeping for a pen-and-paper game like D&D. "How much HP did I have? How many spell slots? Arrows? Hit dice? Where was I precisely? What was I up to?"

This is why I limited Mulligan and Deja Vu to the same turn. Traveling further into the past would be too confusing.


With a feat (as a ritual; for non casters) or as a normal spellcasting ability, just use the teleport spells! As a reaction, re-do the entire round or the last round. [...] Misty Escape and Misty Step could re-do the round or the last round. Dimension door could come back in time a little more ( 500' = 2 minutes) [...] The pro: use existing spells. The con: Of course, it is more job for the DM. These are both cons, in my opinion. Using existing spells means having no spell descriptions, which is terrible for something as delicate as time travel. I'd much rather write unique Chronomancy spells.


Hindsight is cool. Glad you agree


Ready For Anything is [...] basically spontaneous casting. Cool for a wizard, cleric or druid! Glad you agree


Fast-Forward is OP. There are higher level spells for safe rest waiting for next hour or 8h. There are spells to remove fear, short-time afflictions, etc. Maybe as a 5th level spell ? While high level safe rest spells benefit the entire party (Catnap, Rope Trick, Tiny Hut, etc), Fast Forward costs a 1st level spell slot for each target. I think that's a fair trade-off.

I agree that ending short-time afflictions with a 1st level spell is strong. But doing this with a 5th level spell is absurd. Dispel Magic (a 3rd level spell) can end short- and long-time afflictions alike.

Why don't we compromise and agree that Fast Forward is a 2nd level spell?


If At First You Don't Succeed is too abusive. How so?

[mictrepanier]

I'm not sure what you mean by this.
I meant : is this a new class of spells or just for this particular sub-class ?



Traveling far into the past demands a lot of bookkeeping...

As in the litterature, the character from PRESENT comes back to the past with PRESENT memories and abilities.


These are both cons, in my opinion.
The spell is situational. It is always DM's call.



While high level safe rest spells benefit the entire party...
Why don't we compromise and agree that Fast Forward is a 2nd level spell? How so?
I agree. Except for the warlock. Warlock replenish all 1-5th level spells after a short rest. Let's say THIS wont work.

[mictrepanier]

How so?
My bad, Mulligan is abusive.

The concept is fine, like my "chronomancy mist step", one can re-do actions. The mulligan is OP because it is a at-will spell, a cantrip. So, i'll say level 1 and level 2 spells instead.

The difference between one and the other is blurry, so this is why i'll keep only the 2nd level version.

The 6th level ability is fine. A reaction is not a costly resource. But 2 extra spells is not a fair trade, unless the paradigm 1 is true: this spell is ONLY for the chronomancer.

I created a "time" sub-class for wizard, sorcerer, warlock, cleric, rogue and fighter. Sharing the (quite) same abilities. Would you like to see it ?

Otherwise, back to the wizard, what would you post for level 10 and 14th ?

[GalacticAxekick]

I meant : is this a new class of spells or just for this particular sub-class ?I would expect them to be a new school set of spells, available to any caster. The Chronomancer archetype, like any wizard archetype, would be a specialist in this set of spells, but wouldn't have unique access to them.


As in the literature, the character from PRESENT comes back to the past with PRESENT memories and abilities.You're suggesting that the character does not return to their own past, but literally travels back in time? That they co-exist with their past self? That they have the opportunity to create paradoxes?

And you're suggesting that this is less bookkeeping?



The spell is situational. It is always DM's call.Traveling to the past is hardly situation. It's an escape button for any mistake a player could possibly make. Losing a battle, getting lost, ruining a friendship, and more can be solved by saying "I go back to 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day, 1 year ago".

Something this universally useful needs to be carefully balanced, meaning that it needs to be carefully described.



I agree. Except for the warlock. Warlock replenish all 1-5th level spells after a short rest. Let's say THIS wont work.Why wouldn't it work? Warlocks can cast Dispel Magic over and over. Why not a weaker version of it, using the same spell slots?


My bad, Mulligan is abusive.

The concept is fine, like my "chronomancy mist step", one can re-do actions. The mulligan is OP because it is a at-will spell, a cantrip. So, i'll say level 1 and level 2 spells instead.Rerolling as a cantrip might be OP. Being forced to try something different isn't. Assuming that player always tries to do the best thing they can, using Mulligan to take a different action guarantees diminishing returns. For example:

WZ - "I cast Chromatic Orb"
DM - "You miss"
WZ - "Okay, nevermind. I cast Fire Bolt"
DM - "You hit."

This cantrip just drop you from 3d8 (13.5) damage to 1d10 (5.5). Better than missing, but far from overpowered.



The 6th level ability is fine. A reaction is not a costly resource. But 2 extra spells is not a fair trade, unless the paradigm 1 is true: this spell is ONLY for the chronomancer.I don't see what you mean. How does making these spells unique to the Chronomancer make this feature better?

The point of this feature is that, while anyone can cast these spells, the Chronomancer is the only one who can cast these spells repeatedly. Think of the scene in Doctor Strange where the hero declares "Dormammu, I've come to bargain".


I created a "time" sub-class for wizard, sorcerer, warlock, cleric, rogue and fighter. Sharing the (quite) same abilities. Would you like to see it ?Not really


Otherwise, back to the wizard, what would you post for level 10 and 14th ?I'm not sure! I have never played a game that last past 10th level, and so I'm not sure what balanced high level play looks like.

[mictrepanier]

You're suggesting that the character does not return to their own past, but literally travels back in time? That they co-exist with their past self? That they have the opportunity to create paradoxes?

Yes. I partially get to your point. I think time travel should be an optional, DM's call spell, not a sub-class ability.

I still think the (mulligan, etc) spell should be level 1 or 2. It should be a spell used for REALLY important rounds, not for EVERY round.

I mean, this chronomancer caster will act up to 2x more than others players. You'll have munity from all others players. Doing more damage than other causes jealously, always get DM atttention as well.

Fast Forward: 2nd level. Using this spell at higher level add an additionnal creature to the effect for every level added.

[GalacticAxekick]

I still think the (mulligan, etc) spell should be level 1 or 2. It should be a spell used for REALLY important rounds, not for EVERY round.

I mean, this chronomancer caster will act up to 2x more than others players. You'll have munity from all others players. I agree that taking an additional action will slow the game down slightly. But only slightly. Making one attack, undoing it, and making a different attack takes the same amount of time as a fighter making two attacks (which happens every single round, starting at 5th level).


Doing more damage than other causes jealously, always get DM atttention as well.Mulligan wouldn't significantly increase the spellcaster's damage. By definition, it forces the spellcaster to use their second-best option in a given situation.


Fast Forward: 2nd level. Using this spell at higher level add an additionnal creature to the effect for every level added.Acceptable!