Spellcasters - Levels 5 to 10

[FoxDropz]

Regarding only Full Spellcaster Classes: Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard, Warlock.
Considering mid level range (lvl 5 to 10).
How would you rate these Classes in terms of:

DPR
CC+Debuffs
Heals+Buffs
Utility+Skills
Social Tools

[Bobthewizard]

This thread is going to cause some arguments. But I'll bite anyway. Here's mine off the top of my head. A lot of this can change depending on subclasses. I went with how I've seen them played in general, not how good they could be in a specialized build.

DPR - I think this one changes a lot from level 5 to level 10.
Level 5 Druid, Cleric, Warlock, Sorcerer, Wizard, Bard
Level 10 Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, Cleric, Warlock, Bard

CC+Debuffs
Bard, Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid, Cleric, Warlock

Heals+Buffs
Druid, Cleric, Bard, Sorcerer, Wizard, Warlock

Utility+Skills
Wizard, Druid, Bard, Cleric, Sorcerer, Warlock

Social Tools
Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Wizard, Druid, Cleric

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, Wizard, Warlock.



DPR (our adventuring day) Sorcerer, Wizard, Bard, Cleric, Warlock
CC+Debuffs Bard, Warlock, Wizard
Heals+Buffs Cleric, Bard, Druid, Warlock, Wizard
Utility+Skills Bard, Druid, Wizard....
Social Tools Bard, Warlock, Cleric....



Your mileage may vary. Druids and Clerics have such a spell list and can switch out at will and deserve points for that. Wizards can sorta get their whole spell list, its game dependent. Sorcerers are just so straight forward and simple.

[MrStabby]

So a big thing is how you build them and how you measure them. For example a Warlock can take some great out of combat invocations and jump up the utility hierarchy, but in doing so they will be sacrificing options such as repelling blast and agonising blast. Do you compare the peak in each category even if they are potentially exclusive?

[FoxDropz]

This thread is going to cause some arguments. But I'll bite anyway. Here's mine off the top of my head. A lot of this can change depending on subclasses.

True, I was kinda expecting it. But I figured to rank each Subclass would be way too long, having an overall idea of the Classes would be better. :biggrin:

[Fable Wright]

My list basically boils down to a few key spells. Whoever gets those spells is the king of that level. With that in mind:

Level 5
DPR: Conjure Animals > Spirit Guardians > Fireball
CC: Plant Growth > Spirit Guardians > Web
Debuffs: Slow/Hypnotic Pattern > Blindness > Phantasmal Force
Heals: Healing Spirit > Mass Healing Word > Healing Word > Cure Wounds
Buffs: Haste > Bless
Utility: Wizard Rituals, followed by Druid and Cleric.
Social: Bard, Sorc, Warlock

Level 7
DPR: Conjure Animals > Storm Sphere > Spirit Guardians > Fireball
CC: Plant Growth > Spirit Guardians > Web
Debuffs: Slow/Hypnotic Pattern > Blindness > Phantasmal Force > Polymorph
Heals: Polymorph > Healing Spirit > Mass Healing Word > Healing Word > Cure Wounds
Buffs: Polymorph > Haste > Bless
Utility: Conjure Pixies, Wizard Rituals, followed by Druid and Cleric.
Social: Bard, Sorc, Warlock

Level 9
DPR: Conjure Animals (Shepherd) > Storm Sphere > Spirit Guardians > Conjure Animals
CC: Wall of Force > Plant Growth > Spirit Guardians > Web
Debuffs: Unnerfed Contagion > Wall of Force > Slow/Hypnotic Pattern > Blindness > Phantasmal Force
Heals: Polymorph > Healing Spirit > Mass Healing Word > Healing Word > Cure Wounds
Buffs: Polymorph > Haste > Bless
Utility: Conjure Pixies, Wizard Rituals, followed by Druid and Cleric.
Social: Bard, Sorc, Warlock

Note: Slow vs Hypnotic Pattern is mostly game dependent. Slow's great if things tend to dissolve to a melee very fast, while Hypnotic Pattern is better if enemies tend to group up a distance from the party.

[FoxDropz]

My list basically boils down to a few key spells. Whoever gets those spells is the king of that level. With that in mind:

Level 5
DPR: Conjure Animals > Spirit Guardians > Fireball
CC: Plant Growth > Spirit Guardians > Web
Debuffs: Blindness > Phantasmal Force
Heals: Healing Spirit > Mass Healing Word > Healing Word > Cure Wounds
Buffs: Haste > Bless
Utility: Wizard Rituals, followed by Druid and Cleric.
Social: Bard, Sorc, Warlock

Level 7
DPR: Conjure Animals > Storm Sphere > Spirit Guardians > Fireball
CC: Plant Growth > Spirit Guardians > Web
Debuffs: Blindness > Phantasmal Force
Heals: Polymorph > Healing Spirit > Mass Healing Word > Healing Word > Cure Wounds
Buffs: Polymorph > Haste > Bless
Utility: Conjure Pixies, Wizard Rituals, followed by Druid and Cleric.
Social: Bard, Sorc, Warlock

Level 9
DPR: Conjure Animals (Shepherd) > Storm Sphere > Spirit Guardians > Conjure Animals
CC: Wall of Force > Plant Growth > Spirit Guardians > Web
Debuffs: Unnerfed Contagion > Wall of Force > Blindness > Phantasmal Force
Heals: Polymorph > Healing Spirit > Mass Healing Word > Healing Word > Cure Wounds
Buffs: Polymorph > Haste > Bless
Utility: Conjure Pixies, Wizard Rituals, followed by Druid and Cleric.
Social: Bard, Sorc, Warlock

I liked this alternative approach!

[Teaguethebean]

Debuffs: Blindness > Phantasmal Force


No Hypnotic Pattern? It seems like a bit of a no brainer. Same with slow tbh but less so. I would expect.
Lv.5
Debuffs: Hypnotic Pattern > Blindness > Slow > Phantasmal Force
Lv.7
Debuffs: Hypnotic Patter > Blindness > Polymorph > Slow > Phantasmal Force

[kazaryu]

DPR-too dependent on game. if low (1-2) number of fights per day- sorc->wizard->cleric->bard->druid (druid and cleric would move up the list the more fights you add per day)

CC+Debuffs-not really my forte, sorry

Heals+Buffs- these are actually 2 different categories, and the tier list is actually different for each

heals-cleric->druid->bard->wizard->sorcerer (divine soul sorc obviously is an exemption)

buffs- sorc (twin haste too gud)->wizard->bard->cleric->druid

Utility+Skills- again, not a super cohesive category. bards easily have the best skills, as in they get more+jack of all trades. but all of the classes get some solid utility choices. i think cleric/druid would probably top the chart here just because they don't pay any cost to be able to prepare utility.

Social Tools-bard (expertise is strong yo)->sorc (empowered enchantments anyone?)-> cleric (obviously somewhat situational, but i'd argue that, unless the priest is particularly obnoxious, most people are going to have a generally positive reaction to a priest, in most settings)->druid (similar to cleric, although *quite* as generally liked) ->wizard (just..by default)

[Fable Wright]

No Hypnotic Pattern? It seems like a bit of a no brainer. Same with slow tbh but less so. I would expect.
Lv.5
Debuffs: Hypnotic Pattern > Blindness > Slow > Phantasmal Force
Lv.7
Debuffs: Hypnotic Patter > Blindness > Polymorph > Slow > Phantasmal Force

Hm. The issue with Hypnotic Pattern is that it's really spacing-dependent. When it's good, it's great, but a lot of my groups have very sparsely populated maps that make it hard to use. Slow is something I definitely forgot about, though, you got me there. The fact that it (a) can be used on multiple targets, (b) after things have dissolved into a melee, and (c) can absolutely cripple enemies makes it a crying shame that I didn't put it on the list. Amending.