Build assistance Please

[Hunterx]

I have been wanting to build something like this for a long time and I finally have found the information I need to do it I think. I am just not sure what class I should start out at or where I should go with it. My first thought was battle dancer, chaos monk or something else. But than I started thinking of some things and well my brain just turned to mush. So without further a do here is the build idea and lets see what you guys think and can help we out with.

Race: Mongrelfolk
Class:
Flaws: 2 (TBNL)
Feats: Level 1 Abyssal Heritage, Flaw feat: claws of the beast. Flaw feat Demonic Skin, Poisons Talons

This gives me a very nice starting package for a unarmed melee class type char and the poison talons feat would give me a poison (DC of 10+1/2 char level +Con Mod) If we max out the con mod for a mongrelfolk and give him a 18 that makes a 22. That is 10+2+6 at level 4.

Now here is the big part I need some assistance on. 1 class I thought about barbarian as that will bring the DC up to a 20 when raging. If i go dragonborn Mongrelfalk than that adds more to my con and increases the DC on the poison to 21. But am I losing to much becoming dragonborn and losing all my racial abilities from mongrelfolk.

Thanks for your assistance in this

[Khedrac]

If you want wanting to become some sort of melee monster and rip opponents to shreds with your natural attacks then go Totemist...

Tbh, you say "I have been wanting to build something like this for a long time" but you don't say what you are actually trying to build, which makes it difficult to help.

[Hunterx]

If you want wanting to become some sort of melee monster and rip opponents to shreds with your natural attacks then go Totemist...

Tbh, you say "I have been wanting to build something like this for a long time" but you don't say what you are actually trying to build, which makes it difficult to help.

That is fair enough, yes it is a natural attack build that get full attacks with claws and what not. totemist i knew about but it is not a full BAB all be it just slightly lower but it is still not full BAB.

[Kalkra]

IIRC, Battle Dancer abilities key off of Cha, which Mongrelfolk get a hefty penalty to. Also, what racial abilities does a Mongrelfolk have that you want to keep? (Afb atm)

[Hunterx]

IIRC, Battle Dancer abilities key off of Cha, which Mongrelfolk get a hefty penalty to. Also, what racial abilities does a Mongrelfolk have that you want to keep? (Afb atm)

looking them over again for a melee monster there really is nothing that would be good. I know the mongrelfolk get a big penalty on the Cha but that is what might be the balance.

I have worked it a little more and this is what i have come up with

Race Dragonborn: Heart Mongrelfolk
Class: Fighter 4/ Fist of the forest 3/ Barbarian 1/Ranger 6/Frostrager 5
Flaws:2 TBNL
Feats: Level 1 Abyssal Heritage, Bonus feat improved unarmed strike Flaw feat claws of the beast, Flaw feat Demonic hide
Level 2 bonus feat Great fortitude
Level 3 Superior unarmed strike
Level 4 Bonus power attack
Level 6 poison talons


Something like this looks OK at this point.

[liquidformat]

So if you add in one level of Overwhelming Attack monk you get power attack and Improved unarmed Strike and a second level gives you improved Bull Rush. If you are going to take frostrager might as well pickup the Blazing Berserker feat too.

I have always been partial to going with Bear Totem Barbarian 3/Overwhelming Attack monk 2/FotF3/Primeval or Bear Totem Barbarian 3/Wild Shape Ranger 4 (or Bear Wrestling Ranger 3)/FotF3/Primeval. Though it is more expensive to get into Primeval it is much more powerful than Bear Warrior, plus if you take dire puma as your animal you get pounce, improved grab, rake, and a climbing speed.

[Falontani]

If Dragon magazine is available (you stated chaos monk) then:
Beast Strike allows you to add claw and unarmed strike damage together
City Brawler Barbarian grants improved unarmed strike and twf at the cost of weapon/armor proficiency, add in bear barbarian (for grapple version) or wolf barbarian (for knockdown barbarian) and you've got yourself a strong base.

Races: mongrelfolk Dragonborn works, however shifter from Eberron can best it on constitution, and can get claws.

Bear Warrior is fun for high strength, and is thematic with frostrager if you get up to polar bear.
Primeval is beastly in the strength department.
Weretouched Master is a powerful contender if you go shifter.

Deep Warden is a class your not likely going to go, but is notable for getting con to ac.

If you can avoid monk then superior unarmed strike is amazing, if you take a single level in monk then it becomes +5 levels in monk.. Which messes with your damage badly.

Don't forget Improved Natural Attack, Ability Focus Poison, Virulent Poison, and Deadly Poison.

[Hunterx]

If Dragon magazine is available (you stated chaos monk) then:
Beast Strike allows you to add claw and unarmed strike damage together
City Brawler Barbarian grants improved unarmed strike and twf at the cost of weapon/armor proficiency, add in bear barbarian (for grapple version) or wolf barbarian (for knockdown barbarian) and you've got yourself a strong base.

Races: mongrelfolk Dragonborn works, however shifter from Eberron can best it on constitution, and can get claws.

Bear Warrior is fun for high strength, and is thematic with frostrager if you get up to polar bear.
Primeval is beastly in the strength department.
Weretouched Master is a powerful contender if you go shifter.

Deep Warden is a class your not likely going to go, but is notable for getting con to ac.

If you can avoid monk then superior unarmed strike is amazing, if you take a single level in monk then it becomes +5 levels in monk.. Which messes with your damage badly.

Don't forget Improved Natural Attack, Ability Focus Poison, Virulent Poison, and Deadly Poison.

Thanks a lot of these were on my radar. Shifter is off the table because the DM hates Ebberon even tho shifter are named in forgotten realm. I looked at the poison talons feat again and you can use it once per hour which is just pure crap. The barbarian I was looking at hard real hard and I'm still on the fence. I was thinking DFA with improved natural attack and grapples than while in grapple breathing breath weapon on them. Now if I go DFA and dragon born body I have two breath weapons can they get used in the same round anyway? Is there a feat quicken breath weapon of what not.

[Crake]

You're aware that the poison from poison talons is only usable 1/hour right? Are you sure you want to invest that much to get something you'll probably only end up using 1/day tops?

[Hunterx]

You're aware that the poison from poison talons is only usable 1/hour right? Are you sure you want to invest that much to get something you'll probably only end up using 1/day tops?

Yes and only after looking at it again did I see that, as i stated in my post previous. So now I go another direction with this build.

The basic layout for this char is to grapple his opponent and than with quicken breath breath 2 breath weapons onto his opponent.

The issue is that grapple is very size dependant and the mongrelfolk are medium. Goliath/Half Giant would be good except that there is no Level buy out in the game the DM thinks is makes char to strong. He is a bit of an rooster as it is but that is a different story.

[liquidformat]

Yes and only after looking at it again did I see that, as i stated in my post previous. So now I go another direction with this build.

The basic layout for this char is to grapple his opponent and than with quicken breath breath 2 breath weapons onto his opponent.

The issue is that grapple is very size dependant and the mongrelfolk are medium. Goliath/Half Giant would be good except that there is no Level buy out in the game the DM thinks is makes char to strong. He is a bit of an rooster as it is but that is a different story.

If you are wanting to focus on breath weapons then Dragon Fire Adept is hands down the best class out there, and is very solid as a straight 20 levels.

If you want to get large and in charge without LA getting in the way you have a few options. First Enlarge Person is very standard a decent choice to buy as a perm'ed spell on yourself. Another option is to take a psychic warrior dip and use expansion, and expansion is much better than enlarge though can't get it perm'ed. Alternatively you could just have your friendly neighborhood wizard cast polymorph any object on you to turn into a troll or what ever big monster you can get away with without being assaulted by a book from your DM. Finally, Bear Warrior and primeval are viable prc's to get some size and beefed up stats.

[Hunterx]

If you are wanting to focus on breath weapons then Dragon Fire Adept is hands down the best class out there, and is very solid as a straight 20 levels.

If you want to get large and in charge without LA getting in the way you have a few options. First Enlarge Person is very standard a decent choice to buy as a perm'ed spell on yourself. Another option is to take a psychic warrior dip and use expansion, and expansion is much better than enlarge though can't get it perm'ed. Alternatively you could just have your friendly neighborhood wizard cast polymorph any object on you to turn into a troll or what ever big monster you can get away with without being assaulted by a book from your DM. Finally, Bear Warrior and primeval are viable prc's to get some size and beefed up stats.

I'am trying to tie together grappling and a double breath weapon. The breath weapons would come from Dragonborn heart, and DFA. If possible will tie in the frostrager and use frost breath as a cloud to heal myself for 14 or so. In a grapple they would be allowed a reflex save and would take the full damage of the breath weapon. Not max damage just full damage. So how do we get there is the question. If we can get pounce and improved grab some way that the build is even stronger. Barbarian pounce will not get a book thrown at me instead wit will have a library dropped on me so that is out.

[Crake]

is there a reason why you specifically want to combine grappling and breath weapons? Technically, I'm not even sure you can hit an opponent you're grappling with a breath weapon, as the point of origin starts in a corner of your square, and goes outward, while your opponent is in your square, so wouldn't be within the area of your breath.

And even if you can hit them, they still get a save. You might be confusing the rules about where if a dragon grabs an opponent in it's mouth specifically, and then uses it's breath weapon, the victim doesn't get a save, but a simple grapple does not invoke those rules.

[Falontani]

Idr if it is srd or not, but dragons specifically may use their breath weapon in a grapple.

[Hunterx]

Idr if it is srd or not, but dragons specifically may use their breath weapon in a grapple.

Dragonborn and DFA are considered dragons. They may be of the dragon blood line but can take dragon based feats. So this should allow for breath weapon attacks while in a grapple. If not getting a bite attack that allows for a grapple to be started would be perfect. An easy one would be Dragonborn Mongrelfolk Druid who wild shapes into crocodile. But I want to get the two quickened breath weapons which means I need Dragonborn and DFA. Plus once I can get the cloud breath there is no line or cone it turns into an AOE. Yes I realize that is not till DFA 10 but I am still working on this whole idea.

[Hunterx]

I know what I will do if I can not get this build down pat.

Race: Half Ogre
Classes: Sneak Attack Fighter 1 / Rogue 1
Feats: Level 1 Monkey Grip, Flaw Two Weapon Fighting Flaw Ambidextarity
Stats: 18 (+6) 24 Dex 17 (-2) 15 Con 16 (+2) 18 Int 18 (-2) 16 Wis 11 Cha 16 (-2)14
Str 24 Dex 15 Con 18 Int 16 Wis 11 Cha 14

Sneak Attack of with huge daggers
Attack: BAB+1 Str +7 Flaking +2 Two Weapon fighting -2=+8/+8
Damage 1D8+2D6+7
Min 10 Max 27
Full attack
Min 20 max 54
Average 37
Crit Min 40 Crit Max 108
Crit average 74
skill points 2+3 5*4 20 +10 30
Large size -4 hide and move silent
Skills hide and move silent maxed out

Biggest advantage sneak attacking from 10' out because he threatens at 10' as long as there is another player in flanking position.

What do you think of him