Spells for Spellwarp Snipers?

[danielxcutter]

For the record, I am not looking for spells such as, say, Greater Invisibility.

What I am looking for is a) good candidates to convert into rays, and/or b) ray spells that can be used to deliver sneak attack damage.

An example of the first would be, say, Earth Reaver - which has bad damage, but turns into a hit-and-you’re-prone ray - or Cyclonic Blast - which has decent damage and also a no-save bull rush with a +12 bonus.

An example of the second would be spells like Polar Ray or Energy Drain. Note that in this case, I’m particularly interested in highish-level spells, higher than the max cap for Spellwarp Sniper(that is, 5th-level spells). I think there’s a spell on the web called Flame Sands, which seems okay as well.

And while I do know that there is a list of eligible spells out there somewhere, that is honestly too much and too vague for my purposes. I’m not going to read half the area blasting spells printed just to find some useful ones.

Oh, one last thing - Wizard-based casting, not Sorcerer. Wings of Flurry really is a great spell for Sorcerer-based Spellwarp Snipers, but not planning on doing that now.

[Troacctid]

I'm partial to force hammer myself.

[danielxcutter]

I'm partial to force hammer myself.

Nonlethal force ray that deals Xd4 damage(max 10d4)? Nice! The only minor drawback is lethal and non-lethal damage get healed at the same time by healing spells, but it’s still better than Blast of Force or whatever that SpC spell was.

[NigelWalmsley]

The best spell for Spellwarp Sniper is Sandblast. After being spellwarped, it's a no-save daze on a ranged touch out of a first level spell slot, which is absurd. The only problem is that it's a Druid spell. There are ways around that, but none of them are trivial. Other than that, it's largely about knocking people prone.

[danielxcutter]

The best spell for Spellwarp Sniper is Sandblast. After being spellwarped, it's a no-save daze on a ranged touch out of a first level spell slot, which is absurd. The only problem is that it's a Druid spell. There are ways around that, but none of them are trivial. Other than that, it's largely about knocking people prone.

Yeah, I know what you mean, but honestly I don’t really feel up to jumping through hoops just to get a few decently useful spells. Earth Reaver is a lot higher level but it’s still on the Sorcerer/Wizard list. And deals some damage.

[radthemad4]

Frost Breath?

[danielxcutter]

Frost Breath?

Low damage dice, low scaling rate, and low cap... but hot diggity damn that rider effect. Daze isn’t quite as powerful as stunning but it’s also a lot harder to be immune to it. Pretty damn nice for the slot!

[Maat Mons]

My list did have a quick-reference section for status effects that become no-save. ... But my list appears to have completely disappeared from the internet anyway. Well, here's a repost of that section.


These spells normally inflict a status condition on a failed reflex save. Only 3.5, non-setting spells are listed.

Blinded

Anger of the Noonday Sun: Druid 6; 1d6 damage per level (maximum 10d6, only certain creatures) plus blinded for 1 minute per level, 20 ft. range, SR, Spell Compendium 11
Sunburst: Druid 8, sorcerer/wizard 8, sun 8, warmage 8; 6d6 damage (more against certain creatures) plus blinded, long range, SR, Player's Handbook 289


Buried

Bombardment: Druid 8; 1d8 damage per level (maximum 20d8) plus buried, long range, no SR, Spell Compendium 37
Call Avalanche: Druid 5; 8d6 crushing damage plus buried, long range, no SR, Frostburn 90


Dazed

Frost Breath: Cleric 2, druid 2, sorcerer/wizard 2; 1d4 cold damage per level (maximum 5d4) plus dazed for 1 round, 30 ft. range, SR, Spell Compendium 100
Wings of Flurry: Sorcerer 4; 1d6 damage per level (uncapped) plus dazed for 1 round, 30 ft. range, SR, Races of the Dragon 119


Immobilized

Rain of Spines: Wu jen 4; 6d6 damage plus prone plus immobilized for 1 round per level, medium range, no SR, Complete Mage 114


On Fire

Molten Strike: Sorcerer/wizard 2; 2d6 fire damage plus on fire, long range, SR, Heroes of Battle 127


Prone

Cometfall: Cleric 6, druid 6; 1d6 damage per level (maximum 15d6) plus prone, medium range, no SR, Spell Compendium 50
Earth Reaver: Cleric 5, sorcerer/wizard 5; 4d6 damage plus 3d6 fire damage plus prone, medium range, SR, Spell Compendium 75
Elemental Burst: Wu jen 1; 1d8 damage or prone, long range, SR, Complete Arcane 104
Great Thunderclap: Sorcerer/wizard 3; prone plus stunned for 1 round (will negates) plus deafened for 1 minute (fortitude negates), medium range, no SR, Spell Compendium 107
Hurtling Stone: Druid 4; 6d6 damage plus prone, 60 ft. range, no SR, Heroes of Battle 127
Ironthunder Horn: Bard 1, sorcerer/wizard 2; prone, 30 ft. range, SR, Spell Compendium 126
Scramble True Position: Bard 1, cleric 1, sorcerer/wizard 1; moved 2 squares in a random direction plus prone, close range, SR, Tome of Magic 258
Snow Wave: Druid 6; 4d6 crushing damage plus 1d6 cold damage (fortitude half) plus prone, 30 ft. range, no SR, Frostburn 104
Tail Sweep: Sorcerer 4, 1d6 damage per level (uncapped) plus prone, 10 ft. range, SR, Races of the Dragon 118
Thunderous Roar: Druid 3; 1d6 sonic damage per 2 levels (maximum 5d6, fortitude half) plus prone, long range, SR, Spell Compendium 220


Slowed

Deadly Lahar: Druid 8, sorcerer/wizard 8, wu jen 8; 10d6 fire damage plus 5d6 fire damage in the following 3 rounds plus slowed for 3 rounds, 60 ft. range, no SR, Complete Mage 101


Stunned

Sandblast: Druid 1; 1d6 nonlethal damage plus stunned for 1 round, 10 ft. range, SR, Complete Divine 178

[Troacctid]

I personally would not allow the sandblast trick to work and here's why. The effect applies to creatures that fail the Reflex save. Spellwarp sniper removes the Reflex save. If there's no save, they can't fail it. Same with frost breath.

Sunburst, on the other hand, would work because of its different wording.

[danielxcutter]

I personally would not allow the sandblast trick to work and here's why. The effect applies to creatures that fail the Reflex save. Spellwarp sniper removes the Reflex save. If there's no save, they can't fail it. Same with frost breath.

Sunburst, on the other hand, would work because of its different wording.

Spellwarp says “Even if the original spell allowed a Reflex save to reduce or negate its effect, the ray does not.“ I suppose what you said has merit, and for Earth Reaver the prone effect is presumably caused by the ground erupting under the feet of the target(s) so it might not. What would RAI suggest? It could make sense that this clause was so Reflex saves don’t halve the damage of a spellwarped Fireball and nothing else, but I dunno.

I’m still interested in good rays or spells good for spellwarping; Cyclonic Blast for example is still non-typed damage so it’s not too bad.

What about (Greater) Fireburst? Damage dice are d10s; Fireburst is up to 5d10, and even better, Greater Fireburst is up to three times that, 15d10 fire damage! Unless the target has outright immunity or otherwise negates fire damage, the average damage is higher than a spellwarped Cacophonic Burst even with fire resistance 30. Protection from Fire does put a crimp into that, but it’ll still burn(heh) through it pretty damn fast... and that’s not including the precision damage.

[Troacctid]

What about (Greater) Fireburst? Damage dice are d10s; Fireburst is up to 5d10, and even better, Greater Fireburst is up to three times that, 15d10 fire damage! Unless the target has outright immunity or otherwise negates fire damage, the average damage is higher than a spellwarped Cacophonic Burst even with fire resistance 30. Protection from Fire does put a crimp into that, but it’ll still burn(heh) through it pretty damn fast... and that’s not including the precision damage.
Not an area spell, unfortunately, so not eligible for spellwarping. I've run into the same problem on eldritch theurge and arcane archer builds.

[Saintheart]

^^^

In a system that gives us Pun-Pun and the argument of the Locate City Bomb and/or Wightpocalypse, there's no way to turn a target spell into an Area-affecting spell?

EDIT: Also, hang on -- Greater Fireburst's effect is a "burst of fire", i.e. its a Burst spell, i.e.e. that's an area-affecting spell and thus an Area spell for Spellwarp Sniper to work on. Am I missing something?

[Khedrac]

How about Parboil? That becomes a non-save Int damage spell!

Wall of Smoke could be interesting - the spell specifies that passing through the wall is save or nauseated for one round, would that effect apply on a hit?

[danielxcutter]

^^^

In a system that gives us Pun-Pun and the argument of the Locate City Bomb and/or Wightpocalypse, there's no way to turn a target spell into an Area-affecting spell?

EDIT: Also, hang on -- Greater Fireburst's effect is a "burst of fire", i.e. its a Burst spell, i.e.e. that's an area-affecting spell and thus an Area spell for Spellwarp Sniper to work on. Am I missing something?

I think Troacctid interprets that since it’s listed as “effect” and not “area” it doesn’t work.


How about Parboil? That becomes a non-save Int damage spell!

Wall of Smoke could be interesting - the spell specifies that passing through the wall is save or nauseated for one round, would that effect apply on a hit?

No, these explicitly don’t work; both of those depend on Fort saves.

[Anthrowhale]

In a different vein, Hunter's Eye, available via Unseen Seer, can add significant precision damage. This is particularly compelling after you can persist it at level 15.

[danielxcutter]

In a different vein, Hunter's Eye, available via Unseen Seer, can add significant precision damage. This is particularly compelling after you can persist it at level 15.

I was looking for spells to spellwarp or pre-packaged rays; I believe I spelled(heh) this out in the OP.

[Khedrac]

No, these explicitly don’t work; both of those depend on Fort saves.

Oops yes, - I should have read that more closely. Thanks.

[danielxcutter]

Oops yes, - I should have read that more closely. Thanks.

Nah, it’s okay. And those spells are pretty interesting anyways.

[Eurus]

I really like Great Thunderclap. It's not as strong as a no-save daze, but it's kinda delightful. (The 3rd level version from Spell Compendium, not the 7th level version from Magic of Faerun.)

[danielxcutter]

I really like Great Thunderclap. It's not as strong as a no-save daze, but it's kinda delightful. (The 3rd level version from Spell Compendium, not the 7th level version from Magic of Faerun.)

Does it deal damage? Otherwise, nah I’m pretty sure you can’t spellwarp it. Could be useful as-is, though.

[Saintheart]

Does it deal damage? Otherwise, nah I’m pretty sure you can’t spellwarp it. Could be useful as-is, though.


You can alter the form of certain area spells into rays as you cast them. As a free action, you can warp a 1st-level area spell with instantaneous duration and a range greater than touch. The spell's level, components, range, and damage (if any) remain unchanged.

Instantaneous duration and range greater than touch. Sudden Raystrike, however, says:


Whenever the target of one of your ray spells is denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus of not), you deal an extra 1d6 points of damage with your ray spell. (If your ray spell doesn't deal hit point damage, this extra damage doesn't apply.)

So yes, it doesn't have to be a damage-dealing spell to qualify for spellwarp. Or if you had to make it deal damage, there's lots of metamagic feats that turn it into a damage-dealing spell (e.g. a Fell Drain spell which does ability damage.)

[danielxcutter]

The more you know then! So Sudden Raystrike doesn’t apply on spells like Ray of Enfeeblement I guess, since it doesn’t deal hit point damage?

[Saintheart]

The more you know then! So Sudden Raystrike doesn’t apply on spells like Ray of Enfeeblement I guess, since it doesn’t deal hit point damage?

Not as I understand it.

EDIT: That said, Snowcasting (Frostburn) + Flash Frost Spell (PHB 2) give a spell hit point damage, which Sudden Raystrike can then apply to. That's step 1 and 2 on the Locate City Bomb (which doesn't work once you get to Explosive Spell, I know, but these two do.)

[Troacctid]

Not as I understand it.

EDIT: That said, Snowcasting (Frostburn) + Flash Frost Spell (PHB 2) give a spell hit point damage, which Sudden Raystrike can then apply to. That's step 1 and 2 on the Locate City Bomb (which doesn't work once you get to Explosive Spell, I know, but these two do.)
Flash Frost Spell also requires the spell to already deal damage. If you want to add damage to a non-damaging spell, what you need are hellcat gauntlets.

[Saintheart]

Flash Frost Spell also requires the spell to already deal damage. If you want to add damage to a non-damaging spell, what you need are hellcat gauntlets.

I think what you meant was that Flash Frost Spell applies only to spells that have the [cold] descriptor and affect an area. There's nothing in the feat that says the spell has to already deal damage, albeit the fact it has to affect an area does mean it can't apply to Ray of Enfeeblement and we have to look at something else. That it does 2 points "extra" damage does not mean the spell has to already do damage, 2 points extra damage from 0 damage = 2 damage.

(That said, that combo also means you can get Sudden Raystrike to apply to any spell that can be spellwarped - because only area effect spells can be warped, and Flash Frost Spell + Snowcasting means that spell does hitpoint damage, which then means that Sudden Raystrike applies to it.)

[Troacctid]

I think what you meant was that Flash Frost Spell applies only to spells that have the [cold] descriptor and affect an area. There's nothing in the feat that says the spell has to already deal damage, albeit the fact it has to affect an area does mean it can't apply to Ray of Enfeeblement and we have to look at something else. That it does 2 points "extra" damage does not mean the spell has to already do damage, 2 points extra damage from 0 damage = 2 damage.
Well, it's the same wording used for sneak attack, so applying that interpretation consistently would also mean that rogues deal sneak attack damage on attacks that don't normally deal damage, like the touch attack to initiate a trip attempt. Just as an example. A lot of extra damage effects use the same wording. I'm just saying, it'll cause a lot of weird stuff elsewhere, is all.

[Anthrowhale]

I was looking for spells to spellwarp or pre-packaged rays; I believe I spelled(heh) this out in the OP.

Sure---I just hadn't realized that Spellwarp Sniper's can get (slowly) scaling damage off any damaging area spells. That's kind of neat.

W.r.t. effects, there is a 4th level spell called "Desert Burial" In Dragon #331 which applies a no-save helpless condition when used by a spellwarp sniper. It only works when the ground is dirt/mud/sand but is otherwise decent including SR:No.

[Telok]

I recall looking at Downdraft as a potentially amusing spellwarp.

[danielxcutter]

Well, it's the same wording used for sneak attack, so applying that interpretation consistently would also mean that rogues deal sneak attack damage on attacks that don't normally deal damage, like the touch attack to initiate a trip attempt. Just as an example. A lot of extra damage effects use the same wording. I'm just saying, it'll cause a lot of weird stuff elsewhere, is all.

Well for sneak attack at least, it's stated in - I think either Complete Arcane or Complete Scoundrel? - if a spell deals ability damage/drain the sneak attack is negative energy hit point damage, so that one is fairly less headache-inducing.


Sure---I just hadn't realized that Spellwarp Sniper's can get (slowly) scaling damage off any damaging area spells. That's kind of neat.

I think half the point of the class is converting area spells into rays that do the exact same damage and can also be used to apply precision damage. The other half is the other stuff based on rays; especially the capstone.


W.r.t. effects, there is a 4th level spell called "Desert Burial" In Dragon #331 which applies a no-save helpless condition when used by a spellwarp sniper. It only works when the ground is dirt/mud/sand but is otherwise decent including SR:No.

Uh... okay, nice find, but I want to stick with first-party. Setting-specific spells are fair game, though.


I recall looking at Downdraft as a potentially amusing spellwarp.

Ah, that spell. I believe Saintheart said in their RHoD handbook that Downdraft can be a "screwed if they fail their save and possibly screwed even if they make it", as a large part of that campaign is fighting dragons and 50 ft. is still a lot to be pushed when it's straight down. Actually it's pretty much even if it's any other direction but you get what I mean.

[Saintheart]

Ah, that spell. I believe Saintheart said in their RHoD handbook that Downdraft can be a "screwed if they fail their save and possibly screwed even if they make it", as a large part of that campaign is fighting dragons and 50 ft. is still a lot to be pushed when it's straight down. Actually it's pretty much even if it's any other direction but you get what I mean.

Partially from the damage, but if you pick your location right, the dragon is then pancaked into the ground right in front of you, where, prone, it has a -4 to melee AC, -4 to its attack rolls, and has to blow a move action on standing up (and absorbing AoOs), and then its other move action on getting back into the air. There's some context in there because the young dragons in RHOD mostly have poor maneuverability, which in tactical combat means it moves 10 feet in strike range, then goes up at half speed, which means it can only go about 30 feet altitude and then has to 'stop' -- because it has to keep half its movement in reserve or fall out of the air again. Want to do any turns, the distance gets even shorter. That's still almost close enough for sneak attack.

[danielxcutter]

Partially from the damage, but if you pick your location right, the dragon is then pancaked into the ground right in front of you, where, prone, it has a -4 to melee AC, -4 to its attack rolls, and has to blow a move action on standing up (and absorbing AoOs), and then its other move action on getting back into the air. There's some context in there because the young dragons in RHOD mostly have poor maneuverability, which in tactical combat means it moves 10 feet in strike range, then goes up at half speed, which means it can only go about 30 feet altitude and then has to 'stop' -- because it has to keep half its movement in reserve or fall out of the air again. Want to do any turns, the distance gets even shorter. That's still almost close enough for sneak attack.

Isn't the "falling prone" effect only for creatures already on the ground, or is that the result of falling and not making the Tumble check?

Also the "pancaked" effect is what I think about when I imagine flying creatures being screwed by that spell - flying is a major advantage, and Downdraft can take that away suddenly. The damage and possibly even the prone effect are secondary to that, since it means the dragon is now within easy striking range of the martial characters, after all.

[Unavenger]

I'll simplify this: there are 35 spells I can find which are wizard spells, are subject to being spellwarped, and offer at least one reflex save: of them, Acid Breath, Blast of Flame, Blast of Sand, Burning Hands, Cone of Cold, Cacophonic Burst, Energise Potion, Fireball, Firebrand, Firestride Exhalation*, Ice Burst, Incendiary Surge, Jet of Steam, Junglerazer, Lightning Bolt, Acid Breath, Rainbow Blast, Resonating Bolt, Scintillating Sphere, Scorch(er), Shatterfloor, Snowball Swarm, Steelsting and Vitriolic Sphere all just deal damage

Cyclonic blast will automatically do full untyped damage and attempt a bull rush.
Dancing web automatically does full (nonlethal) damage and entangles evil creatures for 1d6 rounds.
Explosive Cascade is mostly notable for its lolwut wording that causes the target to "Take damage to" all creatures and objects it touches, although this is obviously someone getting lost mid-sentence. Ask your DM if you're feeling RAWish.
Furnace Within requires you to be a dwarf, but if you are one, spellwarping it is an interesting way of getting an actually useful spell out of something that you normally only prepare so that you can say you have it prepared (its mindset ability gives you +1 fire damage to unarmed strikes, natural attacks and melee metal weapons until you cast it).
Electric Loop stuns the target on a single failed save, not two, and deals non-trivial amounts of damage for a second-level spell, of an adequate type. 5d6 damage with a possible stun isn't the worst use of an action and a second-level slot.
Ironthunder Horn might be a decent candidate if it dealt even a single point of damage, but for now, all it does is knock the target prone.
Lightning Leap is sorta cool in that it allows you to teleport as part of the casting, which may be useful?
Molten Strike forces the target to take a lot of damage unless they're willing to throw a standard action at it. It may be impossible to pass the save to put out the fire; ask your DM.
Scramble True Position, for what it's worth, will now knock the target prone. Consider it if you're already taking truespeak ranks for some reason.
Venombolt gains basically no benefit from being spellwarped, but technically jumps out of the "No effect but damage" list.

No word on how Rockburst works, mind.

*Unless you can legally share a square with the target.

Edit: Just for fun, every spell I Thurbane can find (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?130805-List-of-Ray-spells) that's already a sor/wiz ray:

Disrupt Undead, Electric Jolt, Ray of Frost, life bolt, greater disrupt undead, Rust Ray, Ray of Deanimation and Polar Ray all do damage and nothing else. In many cases, the damage is insultingly small; in most, the spell doesn't work on anything that can be sneak attacked.

Ray of Clumsiness, Ray of Enfeeblement, Ray of Stupidity, Enervation, Ray of Light, Stun ray***, Blackfire and Energy Drain can all be empowered; none is eligible for sneak attack.

Targeting ray, Distracting Ray, Ray of Sickness, Ray of Weakness, Scale Weakening, Sting ray, Ray of Dizziness, Ray of Exhaustion, Ray of the Python, Dimensional Anchor, Ray of Entropy, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Antimagic Ray, Avasculate, Energy Ebb** and Avascular Mass can neither apply sneak attack, nor be empowered. None merits deep analysis; many remain useful.

Blast of Force has been mentioned, and for good reason. It's not clear whether you can use it to sneak attack but it does lethal damage, or you can't use it to sneak attack at all (it's neither a sap nor an unarmed strike).
Ray of Flame is strong for the same reason catch on fire abilities are always strong, and easily outdoes burning hands turned into a ray.
Light of Lunia: The damage is fine (any amount of untyped damage on a first-level spell slot is pretty deece, and you can fire two rays on separate turns) but I can't recommend it as it's a light source, so probably negates stealth. Light of Mercuria is the same thing but up a spell level and with a thoroughly conditional +1d6; give it a miss.
Rainbow Beam is mediocre at lower levels, but eventually scales up to almost twice the damage you'd get out of a second-level spell.
Ray of Ice deals a subpar amount of cold damage, but makes up for it by sticking the target to the ground on a failed reflex save. No word how this works on flying or swimming creatures, but otherwise it sticks the enemy in place, saddles them with -2 to attack rolls, and denies them their dexterity bonus to AC. You have sudden strike. Work this one out.
Scorching ray is unremarkable unless you ignore the RC ruling where sneak attacks only work on the first shot, in which case go crazy.
Seeking Ray ignores concealment, one of the things that prevents sneak attacks working, gives you a +4 bonus to further rays, and the damage it deals is electricity, which is far from the worst.
Light of Venya is a sad joke which becomes a lot funnier if your DM rules that sneak attack/sudden raystrike applies to the positive energy damage it theoretically deals when healing. Then again, by that logic cure wounds spells work with sneak attacks...
Lucent Lance blinds a creature with no save, and deals d6 (bright light) or d4 (dim light) untyped damage per level, although it can't be cast in darkness. The blinding lasts only a round, but the creature is dazzled and light-sensitive creatures take the effects of direct sunlight for a round, which will stagger vampires and can do some other interesting situational-but-powerful things. Coming online as a fifth-level spell, it's hardly broken but still pretty strong.
Prismatic Ray is the standard random-effect spell that we know and love, but the weird part is that it's 50/50 whether or not you get your SA/SuRS on it. It's not a bad spell if you roll one of the three rays which they don't apply to, mind.
Disintegrate is essentially a kill spell except that SA/SuRS applies to the backup effect. Worthwhile.
Prismatic Eye is Prismatic Ray's whacky cousin - it works better for drawn-out combats but is two levels higher. For god's sake don't use a d8 and reroll everything that you've already rolled, plus 8s, the way it suggests - start with d8 reroll 8s, then d6, d5 (hint: use a d10), d4, d3, d2, work it out automatically, like a sensible person.

**The version targeted at undead can be empowered, but it's safe to assume that it's a rarity that you'll use it to shore up an undead, let alone empower it. Also, D&D multiplication rules would imply that it goes from 4d4*5 to 4d4*5.5, which doesn't seem worth it.
***Only if the target fails its save. Use ray of light instead; it offers none.

[danielxcutter]

Don't know about all those spells to give a one-by-one feedback - though I will look into them, don't worry - but I will say this.

Spells that deal ability damage are still eligible for sneak attack and other forms of precision damage - it's stated in one of the sourcebooks that the sneak attack is resolved as negative energy hit point damage. I think that might go for Enervation and Energy Drain too, but not sure.

[Anthrowhale]

Uh... okay, nice find, but I want to stick with first-party. Setting-specific spells are fair game, though.

Maybe Ray Mastery on a Spellwarped Sinsabur's Baleful Bolt? That inflicts 6-9 points of Str/Con damage on hit. On some monsters that's a reasonably potent debuff/damage spell. If you can manage to get off a few castings in one round it could be an encounter ender.

[danielxcutter]

Maybe Ray Mastery on a Spellwarped Sinsabur's Baleful Bolt? That inflicts 6-9 points of Str/Con damage on hit. On some monsters that's a reasonably potent debuff/damage spell. If you can manage to get off a few castings in one round it could be an encounter ender.

I dunno about Ray Mastery, but spellwarping a SBB certainly sounds pretty neat!