What classes or subclasses have you changed your opinion on?

[MrStabby]

Since they were released, which classes have you changed your mind on?

For me (and this reflects my personal preferences a bit more than an objective evaluation) the classes are...

Death Cleric.

So this guy seemed a bit disappointing. No heavy armour so I couldn't fulfil my "black knight" type fantasies. Nothing I really wanted on the domain spell list - sure some undead flunkies are nice but animate dead is already on the cleric list. The channel divinity looked nice enough but felt like it didn't scale well enough to really impact on encounters and the melee requirement kind of made it a lot less attractive. The level 6 ability to ignore necrotic resistance seemed like a bit of a patch to keep your abilities useful, rather than something actually new. First time I looked at it it was a pretty hard pass.

The good thing was the twinned cantrip.


Now... well I think I was a bit harsh. The extra damage on the CD maybe doesn't scale that well but it is still a pretty solid amount and later on you get more CD per short rest. Furthermore you get more spell slots to burn on things like inflict wounds to keep your damage high.

The Chanel divinity is still sucky against undead... but this is exactly when your base class ability shines, so not so much of a loss there.

Reaper got better with toll the dead being added to the cleric list, but I was probably overrating it before as I was playing a game with a bit of a dungeon focus and cramped conditions.




Sorcerer

First time I tried the sorcerer was just after 5e came out and I thought that you were being pushed into a blaster role. I complied and I found the class a little underwhelming.

Then I abandoned to whole doing damage thing and focused on just being an all-round arcane caster with the bonus of metamagic and found the class to be a lot better, really, really powerful.



Rogue

I loved this class. It was cool. A nasty sneak attack, awesome cunning action to give great flexibility on each of your turns, great skills... I was itching to play one of these. I never got round to it.

Instead I played a wizard - loved it, but when it came to rolling up a new character it occurred to me that every problem I could solve as a rogue my last character as a wizard could solve with spells - and usually with less risk. I still do want to play one, but I am just waiting for the right campaign: one without a player playing a wizard, a bard, a druid or another rogue... an some subclasses being out as well.

Eldritch Knight

Like the rogue this was a class I used to want to play. Now I have seen similar things in action with the 4 elements monk I no longer really have the desire to do this. I thought spells are cool, the fighter has some cool stuff. Adding spells to a fighter should keep it interesting.

Now I see a number of problems with this. You don't get your own spell list so all your best spells will have been picked up by the party wizard, sorcerer or warlock before you get to cast them. What were fun spells at level 5 are a lot less shiny and exciting at level 13. Unlike the paladin who gets their own spell list and can therefore get unique and previously unused spells, the EK is stuck with other classes leftovers.

The lack of unique spells could be helped if the EK could blend the mage and fighter together better. War magic at 7 doesn't feel a lot different, and it is only at 10th level that I feel you get something special, something that couldn't be got by a multiclass. I am not playing 9 levels in a character before I get what I want.



What options have others changed their mind on and why? Did you see it in play? Did you see something that made you think about an option differently? Was it recent or shortly after it's release?

[CTurbo]

A couple of years ago, I thought the Wild Sorcerer was terrible trash and probably the worst subclass to ever exist, but it turns out the player and DM were just not "doing" it right and were not utilizing it's strengths. Tides of Chaos is great and should be spammed as much as possible which means there should be plenty of Wild Surge rolls too which is what the subclass is all about. So overall I think it's a great subclass now.

[Sigreid]

Wasnt impressed with Evoker until I played one. May be the best subclass for the more violent adventure groups.

[Jophiel]

I though sorcerer sounded incredibly bleh but am enjoying my Divine Soul (up to level 11 now) and the benefits of metamagic.

Monk looked terribly boring to me but seeing another player do some various monk stuff makes me think it might be entertaining to play someday. Still not a priority for me but no longer a hard pass.

[Anderlith]

I used to like the Alchemist Artificer. Now I hate it, but I’ve put a home brew patch on it & it works great now

[Reevh]

When I was brand new to 5e, I thought Paladins were kind of weak and lame. Just a fighter who had fewer attacks and almost entirely concentration spells.

It took a while for me to look deeper and see just how powerful paladin auras and divine smite are. One of the biggest misunderstandings in my D&D career.

I also kind of thought sorcerers were just **** wizards. I still kind of feel that way, because I like a lot of spell options, ritual casting, preparation, etc. But Sorcerer metamagic, especially quicken, has really grown on me, and I do appreciate that having a more limited set of available spells makes combat feel quicker and more organic for a lot of players. So while it's still not my favorite caster, I appreciate what it does a lot more than I did when I first started.

[MrStabby]

I though sorcerer sounded incredibly bleh but am enjoying my Divine Soul (up to level 11 now) and the benefits of metamagic.

Monk looked terribly boring to me but seeing another player do some various monk stuff makes me think it might be entertaining to play someday. Still not a priority for me but no longer a hard pass.

I can never really decide on monk. On the one hand they are obviously cool, with a good set of unique abilities that set them apart from other classes and are really powerful. On the other hand they are not as varied as I first thought when I saw them.

When I first saw them I looked at all the different things they could use Ki to do and thought they were lime the battlemaster, but more so. A rich tactical class where success comes from picking the right ability.

Now... it seems like there is a lot less depth. In any circumstance there is likely to be an obvious option and some uses of Ki are just so much better than others. It is still a tactical class, just not as much as I first thought. I still like the monk... I guess I am waiting for the piece of additional content to make it the right class for me.



When I was brand new to 5e, I thought Paladins were kind of weak and lame. Just a fighter who had fewer attacks and almost entirely concentration spells.

It took a while for me to look deeper and see just how powerful paladin auras and divine smite are. One of the biggest misunderstandings in my D&D career.

I also kind of thought sorcerers were just **** wizards. I still kind of feel that way, because I like a lot of spell options, ritual casting, preparation, etc. But Sorcerer metamagic, especially quicken, has really grown on me, and I do appreciate that having a more limited set of available spells makes combat feel quicker and more organic for a lot of players. So while it's still not my favorite caster, I appreciate what it does a lot more than I did when I first started.

Yeah, I think there is a common problem here. Too often people compare the sorcerer to toe wizard and try and fix the sorcerer not the wizard. The sorcerer has really grown on me - the right selection of spells and metamagic to work together is not easy, but it gives a really rich experience.

[Potato_Priest]

Before I tried the warlock, I looked at their invocation options and was astounded and impressed by the amazing versatility.

Then, I tried playing a warlock. It was the dullest character I’ve ever had. Round after round of cantrip spamming, my two spell slots were practically useless thanks to the warlock’s terrible spell list, and if I wanted to get away from Eldrich Blast spamming, I would have to spend my subclass and all the invocations that drew me to the class in the first place.

[DarknessEternal]

A couple of years ago, I thought the Wild Sorcerer was terrible trash and probably the worst subclass to ever exist, but it turns out the player and DM were just not "doing" it right and were not utilizing it's strengths. Tides of Chaos is great and should be spammed as much as possible which means there should be plenty of Wild Surge rolls too which is what the subclass is all about. So overall I think it's a great subclass now.

Unfortunately, the DM decides when you get to use Tides of Chaos' recharge. This effectively means it never recharges faster that once per long rest.

[kazaryu]

Before I tried the warlock, I looked at their invocation options and was astounded and impressed by the amazing versatility.

Then, I tried playing a warlock. It was the dullest character I’ve ever had. Round after round of cantrip spamming, my two spell slots were practically useless thanks to the warlock’s terrible spell list, and if I wanted to get away from Eldrich Blast spamming, I would have to spend my subclass and all the invocations that drew me to the class in the first place.

warlock is probably one of the worst unintended hatchet jobs i've ever seen. they get marketted as a caster (which are primarily known for tehir versatility) so you go in expecting that, but find out that you're a magical martial cahracter. which isn't a *bad* thing. its just not what you signed on for. a versatile specialist doesn't play the same as a versatil generalist. (the difference being the versatile specilist can be built a multitude of ways, but locks into a general, specialized style. whereas the versatile generalist....doesnt)

[Reevh]

Well one of the nice things about the warlock is that it has some of the best RP flavor built into it of any class. There are so many different ways to imagine the Patron/Warlock relationship, how it came about, whether or not it was willing, how the character feels about the patron and vice versa, etc. It's also a great source of info-drops for the DM, should they desire it. It's a class that's rife with flavor and RP capacity, even in their mechanics in combat tend to be rather simple.

[Contrast]

I thought glamour bards were OK but lore was far superiour. When I actually played a glamour bard I quickly grew to like them more and more and now I might even lean towards them being better than lore bards.

I was pretty unconvinced by monks gnerally until I tried playing as a kensai (a subclass which also gets its share of critiscism). It was much more fun than I expected.

I think my opinion has also reduced on barbarians - they're impressive when raging and you can be raging a lot. But you can't be raging all the time and they're pretty disappointing when you aren't. They really need GWM to prop them up in a way that I don't think is true of fighter which is a little sad.


The big one I was hoping to change my opinion on but didn't was ranger. I've seen rangers dominate damage with sharpshooter but having seen multiple ones in play I still just don't see much compelling reason to stay in the class after 5.

[CTurbo]

Unfortunately, the DM decides when you get to use Tides of Chaos' recharge. This effectively means it never recharges faster that once per long rest.


There is endless debate on this ruling. All I know is that, by now, every DM I know or play with allows Tides of Chaos to recharge after the wild table is rolled.


Tides of Chaos
Starting at 1st level, you can manipulate the forces of chance and chaos to gain advantage on one attack roll, ability check, or saving throw. Once you do so, you must finish a long rest before you can use this feature again.

Any time before you regain the use of this feature, the DM can have you roll on the Wild Magic Surge table immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher. You then regain the use of this feature.




The way this is worded leads me and many others to think that the DM can have you rolling on the table all the time as well as almost constantly recharging the Tides of Chaos ability.


Basically, use Tides of Chaos, the next time you cast a spell of 1st level or higher, you auto-roll the wild surge table and get Tides of Chaos back. Rinse and repeat.

[Danielqueue1]

Barbarian, used to thik them super boring deal damage, take damage, smash stuff, but now I'm running a path of ancestral guardian and am really loving both the mechanics and flavor of it all.

Kensei monk. I used to be on the bandwagon of hating the subclass until someone played one realy well in a campaign I was a player in. I realized by watching him play that kensei isn't about specialization, it is about filling in holes, monk is already one of the most self suffiecient classes in the first place then add in range weapon functionality that monk is otherwise missing and some minor features to other play styles and you can contribute to all aspects of combat, and most importantly switch it up on the fly. I mean sure you can't use all of the features at once, so min maxers are going to whine about it. But for most characters switching from longbow to shortsword and shield requires a full round of not attacking, kensei gets the same benefits without even using a bonus action as long as there is an enemy in range to punch. Also, +3 oathbow happened.

Used to think assassin rogue was all that and a bag of chips. I have since been disappointed.

Glamor bard isn't as bad as I originally thought, but It realy isn't my playstyle.

War wizard felt really underwhelming until i multiclassed with it. Who cares about only being able to cast cantrips next round when you were already planning on stabbing someone four times (action surge) with advantage with the shadow blade you summoned last round?

Oath of conquest paladin i don't know if my expectations were too high or what, but I just felt it didn't live up to the hype I heard people raving on the forums about.

[Mr Adventurer]

Unfortunately, the DM decides when you get to use Tides of Chaos' recharge. This effectively means it never recharges faster that once per long rest.

...no it doesn't?

Your DM might make it mean that.

[DMJosh]

I initially loved the idea of a warlock. In my mind, I would be getting SO MANY cool and flexible abilities as invocations. After playing one... those cool and flexible abilities come SO SLOWLY (and Agonizing Blast seemed so much like a must-have that taking something else in its place didn't even feel like an option). Add to that all the issues with getting two spells per short rest, and it just feels... limited... except as a dip to make other Cha-focused classes a boost, which almost feels like cheating sometimes. Have a Cha-focused character with a weakness? Add 1-3 levels of Warlock, and you can probably cover it!

Fighter - I like having access to spells, even if it's limited. Since reading through the PHB for the first time, I've never been tempted to play any fighter subclass other than an eldritch knight. My preference for playing martial characters with access to magic, plus the way 5e multiclassing works for spellcasting, made this an automatic choice for me.

Rogue - As above, but with arcane trickster.

War domain (cleric) - I loved the idea, but I found that the bonus attack was rarely useful past the first two levels. As soon as I got access to Spiritual Weapon, I wanted to be attacking with that instead, and the bonus attack only mattered in less threatening encounters, which isn't where I wanted to be showing off my martial prowess. Maybe that changes at higher levels... I never made it past lvl 4 with that character.