Eldritch Knight build question

[Mwhawk2]

So I’m playing a Fire Genasi Eldritch Knight and my character wields a greatsword. We just made it to level 4 and I’m debating whether or not to take a feat or an ASI. We used point buy for our stats and his are a bit dodgy. They are:

STR 15
DEX 12
CONs 16
INT 13
WIS 10
CHAR 8

Based on those stats, at level 4 which would you suggest I choose a feat or an increase to one of my ability scores? My fighting style is Defense. I am intrigued by Great weapon mastery, Magic Initiate or Savage Attacker or Sentinel.

Any advice on how to best improve his stats? My party includes a blade singer elf, warlock, 2 rogues, so I’m basically the party tank. Hoping to toughen this guy up, and maximize his melee capabilities. All advice is welcome. Thanks!

[DMJosh]

A +2 bonus in your main attack stat seems a little underwhelming. I'd recommend one of the following:



+1 Str / +1 Int ASI split (if you care at all about save DCs and such - I didn't the last time I played an EK, but it depends on your spell selection).
One of the half-feats that give you a strength increase in addition to some other perk. Heavy Armor Master could be good for reinforcing your tank role, but mileage will vary depending on your foes. Athlete gives you a little movement boost (not technically an increase in speed, but it does mitigate some circumstances that would normally slow you down).

[Zhorn]

As party tank, increasing your stickiness is your big draw, either by preventing enemies from escaping your reach, making them choose to stay within range, or making you the more valuable target to attack.
That last one I don't know how to reliably achieve with a single feat, but the former two are reasonable achievable via either Sentinel or War Caster.

Sentinel for those opportunity attacks dropping your opponent's movement to 0 forcing them to stay within range.
War Caster for popping off Booming Blade in place of opportunity attacks. It doesn't force an opponent's movement to 0, but makes them take a sizeable chunk of more damage than a regular melee attack if they try to get past you.

Each of them will have additional pro's worth weighing up for your chosen play style, but it is worth noting the dropping movement to 0 aspect of Sentinel is not going to stack with War Caster's cantrip reaction (the cantrip cast is made instead of an attack of opportunity, not as an attack of opportunity), so the feats are not worth stacking if that's what your intent is. You might want both for other reasons, but for reaction attack you'll want one or the other, not both.

Now as for the other feats you listed;

if you plan on Great Weapon Master, maxing out your attacking stat (STR) will be a higher priority to up you chance to hit, as that -5 can be rather frustrating if you don't manage to land a hit because of it. The other benefit of getting a bonus action attack on a crit or killing an opponent will be negated by War Magic later on. Prior to getting that third attack at Fighter level 11, getting 3 regular attacks (2 with attack action, one with bonus action) will be potentially stronger than War Magic's cantrip with a bonus action attack, but is a gamble compared to the reliability of War Magic (itself during tier 2 stronger than two attack, and arguably competitive to three attacks in tier 3).

Savage Attacker is just your weapon's damage dice and only once per turn, so it's impact on your per round damage will be less than the potential of War Caster, Sentinel or Great Weapon Master. With a d12 weapon, and getting a reasonably decent chance at a big hit (Half-Orc Barbarian, Reckless Attack, Brutal Critial, Savage Attacks) it can be rather powerful, but for an Eldritch Knight it'll only average out to an extra 1 or 2 points. The other choices also offer additional benefits, where Savage Attacker only has the one feature. Recommend skipping this one.

Magic Initiate is very play style dependant. The value is applicable to multiple areas of play (combat, puzzles, social interaction, exploration, group support, etc...), but can be totally useless with a poorly made pick that doesn't pair up with your play style or the content of the DM's session plans. I love this feat for picking up some additional cantrips to diversify my character's toolkits, but it's a feat taken as a luxury when you have an ASI to spare, or to patch a known weakness of your character's build. Without having a more immediate knowledge of your game, it'll be hard to recommend taking or avoiding this one.

[djreynolds]

HAM is a good suggestion at 4th. STR 16.

Your job is make sure those rogues land their sneak attacks. You're going to take a beating.

At 6th level grab STR for an 18.

At 8th STR for 20.

War caster is nice if you go S&B. But with a great axe or great sword you can have free hand to cast.

I see a lot of the shield spell being cast....with verbal and somatic components.

Resilient wisdom is something to grab at 8th or 12th

Remember protection from evil and good is a good spell to have... lasts 10 minutes.

Blur and mirror image are nice.

Good luck

[Zhorn]

Heavy Armor Master is really good if you already have a way to lock enemies onto you, but without such a method it's more likely to deter opponents from focusing on you (it's a meta problem, so DM dependant).

The occupied hand casting aspect is a big draw for War Caster and sword'n'board fighting, but its other two features are still pretty strong. Advantage on concentration checks combined with a decent CON score AND proficiency on the save from being a Fighter can make Eldritch Knights a beast for holding onto concentration. Adding to that holding concentration is an incentive for enemies to attack you it can serve to support the tank role Mwhawk2 has going. But also with attack cantrips scaling up per tier in damage output, getting those off for reactions instead of regular attacks can pack a serious punch.

Resilient WIS is generally good for anyone lacking in the save proficiency, but is also very DM dependant to how strong it will be in low tiers. I agree with waiting till mid game before picking it up, since focus on spell casting opponents becomes more prevalent in higher tiers.

[Aidamis]

The folks before have given some very good advice. I'll just like to add three things. First while Elemental Adept might not be the most optimised choice it'll be fitting for a Fire Genasi. I'd take it later though. Second while Magic Initiate Wizard is solid, MI Cleric offers two notable options: either Shield of Faith for temporary AC boost or Healing Word for the "zap" snap healing/snap revive. Druid might be worth considering for Produce Flame and Goodberry. Third Ritual Caster will open up access to cool utility options and you'll be able to fill it up as you level up provided the GM is made aware that you're looking for spell scrolls. Still I'd take RC a bit later. You're a Fighter, you'll get another ASI at level 6!

[sophontteks]

EK needs int and str. Your int and str are both odd numbers. If you put +1 in int and +1 in str you are getting double the value. There is no contest here.

[DMJosh]

EK needs int and str. Your int and str are both odd numbers. If you put +1 in int and +1 in str you are getting double the value. There is no contest here.

EK doesn't need Int. If you focus on buffs and utility, you can have an 8 Int as an EK and be fine... but that's advice that has been given over and over elsewhere, so I won't go into further detail.

[Aidamis]

EK needs int and str. Your int and str are both odd numbers. If you put +1 in int and +1 in str you are getting double the value. There is no contest here.

There's certainly an argument for the double stat bonus. It's often more efficient than a feat. If I had a level 4 Tabaxi monk with 17 Dex and 15 Wis, I'd certainly bump them both asap, same with a 17 str 17 con Mountain Dwarf Barbarian. The thing with the EK is that it needs Str a lot more than Int, therefore a feat with +1 Str and another useful effect does compete with the +1/+1 stat bump for efficiency.

[Bobthewizard]

You should look at tavern brawler. +1 STR to get you to a plus 3, unarmed strike does d4, and then you get a bonus action grapple. Assuming you have proficiency in athletics, it is a lot of fun.

[CTurbo]

I vote Heavy Armor Master which bumps Str to 16 and makes you tougher

[Tanarii]

EK needs int and str. Your int and str are both odd numbers. If you put +1 in int and +1 in str you are getting double the value. There is no contest here.
Second this.

Unless you've given up half your capability as an EK by only taking spells with no attack roll or saving throw of course. I've never understood why someone would willingly gimp the EK subclass. But some folks are just plain weird.

Edit: Another reason not to do it is if you know you'll be taking an Int boosting half-feat later.

[Sherlockpwns]

I think the answer here depends on how far you think this char / campaign is going to go.

The best thing about Fighters is they get extra ASIs. So I think you should try to map out where you want to go and find a way to get there. I agree if the game were ending at level 5, just take HAM or the +1/+1 split and be done with it.

Here's a few example of what you could do (and why)

Level 4: Heavy Armor Master / +1 Str
Level 6: Warcaster
Level 8: +2 Str
Level 12: Observant / +1 Int?

Simply put, here we have the typical Booming Blade (I assume that was taken?) - BB + Warcaster acts as a sorta mini-sentinel, HAM is just more valuable early on in your character's career, where magic is less common. I added Observant as an example of a non-combat feat you can take and still get the odd +1 int, you'd become a pro at passive investigation and can read lips, lots of neat stuff to do with it, though you may just want to get 20 STR of course.


Or
Level 4: Heavy Armor Master / +1 Str
Level 6: Sentinel
Level 8: +2 Con
Level 12: +2 Con (or Tough)

Here we have a more "tank" like character, focusing more on locking down a foe and adding some extra HP to absorb blows. You may not do as much damage, but that's ok (I may suggest downgrading to a one hand weapon and shield though, but maybe your shield spell will be enough and you can swap out to shield and sword when you run out of casts)

Or

Level 4: +1 str / Int
Level 6: GWM
Level 8: +2 Str
Level 12: +2 Str

The simple "Hit it hard till its dead" style. Boost your to-hit as far as possible and GWM your attacks. Ask for bless. Fire off magic attacks when out of range and close in for the smashing. I am typically not a fan of GWM on EKs because you will often get the best mileage out of BB or GFB + attack than 2-3 attacks, but you need the one cantrip attack to land for it to work. But... it's not like this won't work fine too.


One item you didn't list were your cantrip spells, which may affect things slightly. If you want to fire off a firebolt as you charge in or did not take Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade it may affect what makes sense. More ranged attacks = higher int needed. Etc. etc.

[bendking]

If you want to be more tanky you should really switch to longsword & shield.
Combine that with War Caster at level 4 and you're a good, sticky tank, especially with the Shield spell.
At level 6 take +1/+1 INT/STR then pump STR to 20.

[LudicSavant]

I feel like the strength of the EK subclass is the ability to build to do things like getting GWM-like DPR while not actually using a greatsword or Strength, and going full "eat your heart out Barbarian" Dex tank. So already we're pretty far off base from any of my preferred/recommended build paths for EK. That said...


Based on those stats, at level 4 which would you suggest I choose a feat or an increase to one of my ability scores? My fighting style is Defense. I am intrigued by Great weapon mastery, Magic Initiate or Savage Attacker or Sentinel.

Usually my first feat with an EK is Warcaster or something that boosts your primary attack stat.

- Sentinel's alright, but I prefer to just grab Booming Blade + Warcaster for my stickiness as an Eldritch Knight.
- Savage Attacker is just kinda mathematically... not good. You'd be better off just boosting your main attack stat.
- GWM's not a bad feat, but in order for it to really shine you need to have high accuracy, reliable access to Advantage or similar, etc. You might be surprised how little it actually increases your average DPR without such things (or might even decrease it, depending on the AC of your foe). I'd be a bit worried about you missing those -5/+10 shots with that 15 Strength unless you're only fighting low AC foes.

[djreynolds]

All of the classes IMO, fighter's are party dependent.

You have no healer, 2 rogues, a warlock and bladesinger... this is your party, IMO the rogues "need to be doing knife work"

In combat you will be the guy to set up the rogues for this party and hope they can dish out damage before the need for in-combat healing is needed.

This looks like it will be very fun

[opaopajr]

Feats are just widgets that provide variety to the familiar in 5e. :smallcool: So how familiar are you with an EK?

If you are not, then play it straight down the line for a bit and see what you can learn. So this advice strikes me as poignant:


EK needs int and str. Your int and str are both odd numbers. If you put +1 in int and +1 in str you are getting double the value. There is no contest here.

In fact, I'd say you need more experience with Fighters in general, as you are also restraining its one huge advantage -- Equipment flexibility. GW Style is nice, but you can always change up gear to suit the campaign's context, more than even the party composition!

A party like this, heavier on Rogues and magical tricks, could easily benefit from a Stealthy Fighter as a bruiser with solid no-stealth disadv Med Armor, TWF or Range, and so on. Or it could benefit with a Fighter who can do social tricks, too. So the world of Feats is your oyster. But!, first you need to know how to take advantage of: a) Fighter's Gear flexibility, & b) EK's casting tricks.

Your Spells Known will matter. Just like you can try a low INT with different spell layout, you can do typical EK spells and figure out how they are situationally strong. Big Hint: Action Surge is your friend. DoubleTap Sleep (low INT) or DoubleTap Chromatic Orb (high INT) is no joke. Earth Tremor is not DoubleTapped, as you ET first then Action Surge melee beat down those who fall prone. Little stuff like that helps understand the class & archetype.

Feats just explode the potential laterally. So it helps to know what you have and where you are, so you know where else you want to go new. Healer, Ritual Caster, Skulker, Mobility, War Caster are other ones off the top of my head that could be great. But it seems you need more familiarity with Fighter & EK strengths to derive a more meaningful build choice for yourself. :smallcool: It will help you in future play.

Go for the ASI Split and explore the class features deeper! :smallsmile: