A Short Rest house rule

[LibraryOgre]

The first short rest after a long rest takes 10 minutes.
The second short rest after a long rest takes 30 minutes.
The third, and subsequent, short rests after a long rest takes 1 hour.

[Misterwhisper]

The first short rest after a long rest takes 10 minutes.
The second short rest after a long rest takes 30 minutes.
The third, and subsequent, short rests after a long rest takes 1 hour.

The length of the short rest is not the problem, story pacing where nobody takes them is the problem.

How often are you in a situation where you have 10 mins but not an hour, or one hour but not 8?

[LibraryOgre]

The length of the short rest is not the problem, story pacing where nobody takes them is the problem.

How often are you in a situation where you have 10 mins but not an hour, or one hour but not 8?

I work at a place with a schedule so... pretty much every day.

[MrStabby]

In principal it looks like something worth experimenting with. I don't know where the actual boundaries should be though.

[Misterwhisper]

I work at a place with a schedule so... pretty much every day.

You are not an adventure.

[stoutstien]

The first short rest after a long rest takes 10 minutes.
The second short rest after a long rest takes 30 minutes.
The third, and subsequent, short rests after a long rest takes 1 hour.

Interesting take. Would double down on plot time effects. Combined with a mechanical effect it has promise.

[LibraryOgre]

You are not an adventure.

Life is an adventure or nothing.

[8wGremlin]

What if you just had it time based.

Fluff it that it has to do with the way the Sun and moon sway magic and the vital humors of the body, and it has alway been this way, the magic flows through you most potently in the middle of the night.

Dawn (6am) - you get the effects of having finished a long rest
Noon (12pm) - you get the effects of having finished a short rest
Dusk (6pm) - you get the effects of having finished a short rest
Midnight (12am) - you get the effects of having finished a short rest

Yes you get 3 shorts to a long, this also cuts out Coffeelocks who automatically have the long rest at the beginning of the day.
more short rest mechanics get done, and people have fun, with timing raid for predawn before the replenish goes off.

[fbelanger]

What if you just had it time based.

Fluff it that it has to do with the way the Sun and moon sway magic and the vital humors of the body, and it has alway been this way, the magic flows through you most potently in the middle of the night.

Dawn (6am) - you get the effects of having finished a long rest
Noon (12pm) - you get the effects of having finished a short rest
Dusk (6pm) - you get the effects of having finished a short rest
Midnight (12am) - you get the effects of having finished a short rest

Yes you get 3 shorts to a long, this also cuts out Coffeelocks who automatically have the long rest at the beginning of the day.
more short rest mechanics get done, and people have fun, with timing raid for predawn before the replenish goes off.
Nice. I like that.
In line with magic item who refresh at dawn.
Look a bit silly, but in a world of magic it can be fine, specially in a flat world.
Want add some variant, make drow and tiefling have their long rest effect at midnight rather than dawn.

[redwizard007]

The first short rest after a long rest takes 10 minutes.
The second short rest after a long rest takes 30 minutes.
The third, and subsequent, short rests after a long rest takes 1 hour.

It's not bad, but I feel like different lengths are just unnecessary. I use 10 minute short rests with 8 hour long rests and it works fine.

I also sprinkle in instant refreshes at turning points during long encounters that count as short rests such as: If a boss fight has multiple stages a la 4th edition, if there are both puzzle and combat components to an encounter, if reinforcements arrive or morale gets a significant boost, or if the players are able to retreat to a defensive position to regroup...

It let's me run larger, longer encounters without TPKs and fits narratively to my storytelling style.

[DarknessEternal]

Stealing another house rule someone on this forum came up with:

Short Rests take 1 minute. You can take a maximum of 2 Short Rests per Long Rest.

[Asensur]

This is mine.

At the third short rest the session ends.
At the first long rest the session ends.
If the session ends, players must take a mandatory long rest if they didn't.

The other option is making negative events if players take too many rests, such as a prisoner dies or a boss escapes. This I use when I think the sessions will be at least 6 hours long.

[JellyPooga]

My Short Rest house rule is "Quit whining and take your damn Short Rests. Or don't. Your funeral." :smallamused:

In all seriousness, I've never really understood the resistance to using them, except where players of previous editions simply not being used to the notion. I'm a relatively vocal fan of the Gritty Realism rest variant, for the simple reason that for me, it makes a lot of abilities and rules actually make sense, but that's another conversation. That said, I see little actual effect of making Short Rests insignificantly different; anything between about 10 minutes and an hour and a half is qualitively comparable and doesn't change much at all, IMO.

[Tanarii]

At the first long rest the session ends.
That's mine too. Players can take any short rests they think they can get away with. I use wandering monsters, so that's a risk.

[Mith]

Nice. I like that.
In line with magic item who refresh at dawn.
Look a bit silly, but in a world of magic it can be fine, specially in a flat world.
Want add some variant, make drow and tiefling have their long rest effect at midnight rather than dawn.

Twilight would be better, no?

I am stealing this for my own use. It can be used as a divide between those that are with the "Civilised" races (Humans, Dwarves, Elves etc.), while Twilight is for the Drow, Orcs, goblins etc.

[MeeposFire]

The first short rest after a long rest takes 10 minutes.
The second short rest after a long rest takes 30 minutes.
The third, and subsequent, short rests after a long rest takes 1 hour.

This is similar to what I have done at times though the times are not exactly the same. Mine was 5 minutes, 15 minutes, and then an hour.

As for having the time in game yes it does come up and we think it helps. Remember you can spend 15 minutes just looting the bodies and grabbing a snack after a fight easily so let the wizard search the bodies and have the fighter catch his breath, eat some jerky, drink some water, and clean his blade and soon he will be ready for the next fight.

[Contrast]

How often are you in a situation where you have 10 mins but not an hour, or one hour but not 8?

Occasionally and very often respectively.

If you're in enemy territory its much more feasible to be able to hide out for 10 minutes than it is an hour. Apart from anything else you could cover your resting spot in a Major Image and have a pretty good chance of being able to short rest totally in the open without getting caught.

As for situations where you can spare an hour and not 8 hours - all the godamn time. Particularly given you can only benefit from one long rest per 24 hours so 8 hours is actually more likely to be a full day.


This is mine.

At the third short rest the session ends.
At the first long rest the session ends.
If the session ends, players must take a mandatory long rest if they didn't.

I don't really understand how you make this work. Do you mean that even if they rest in game they don't gain the benefits of a long rest until a session ends? And when a session ends they just magically gain the benefits of a long rest even if you're in the middle of a situation where they couldn't get one?

[Trask]

10 minutes is such a perfect length of time I'm surprised its not what they did in the first place. Its long enouth to be conceptually sound, catching your breath, binding wounds, sharpening weapons, reading spells, etc. But its short enough to be fit in to a variety of exploration roleplaying based activities like searching a room, reading stone carvings, or trying a puzzle. Its even the exact length of a ritual.

Ever since I switched to it, short rests happen very often, in fact they were happening so often that I had to put an upper limit on their use.

I am extremely skeptical of people who say "if you can sit down for 10 minutes you can sit down for an hour and if you can sit down for an hour you can lie down for 8". I think that must reflect a very different style of game than my own, one where exploration and puzzle solving is rare.

[MeeposFire]

10 minutes is such a perfect length of time I'm surprised its not what they did in the first place. Its long enouth to be conceptually sound, catching your breath, binding wounds, sharpening weapons, reading spells, etc. But its short enough to be fit in to a variety of exploration roleplaying based activities like searching a room, reading stone carvings, or trying a puzzle. Its even the exact length of a ritual.

Ever since I switched to it, short rests happen very often, in fact they were happening so often that I had to put an upper limit on their use.

I am extremely skeptical of people who say "if you can sit down for 10 minutes you can sit down for an hour and if you can sit down for an hour you can lie down for 8". I think that must reflect a very different style of game than my own, one where exploration and puzzle solving is rare.

That is why I and I imagine the OP make it an escalating amount of time starting quick (5 or 10 minutes) but eventually hitting that 1 hour mark. The way I personally see it I want the short rest folks to be able to consistently get their 2 short rests per long rest with the possibility of more without it being more onerous. By making the third be 1 hour it makes the first almost always happen, the second is likely to happen, and the third is a bit trickier but can happen. It also keeps you from likely having the issue of too many short rests at a time since eventually you will hit that hour long mark which really limits things.

[stoutstien]

Something Ive been thinking on is making short rest only 1 or 10 minutes that each individual can take independently from each other. They can take a number of short rests equal to their Con modifier per long rest. A slight nod for players who increase Con by representing the ability to catch their breath more often in a day.

[Tanarii]

I don't really understand how you make this work. Do you mean that even if they rest in game they don't gain the benefits of a long rest until a session ends? And when a session ends they just magically gain the benefits of a long rest even if you're in the middle of a situation where they couldn't get one?
In my case, it's "get out of the adventuring site before the end of session, or the party is considered lost." Of course, typically they leave a cleared path behind them so that's pretty easy to do. Lost parties (or TPKs) used to be a frequent occurrence in the early stages of the campaign but it's less frequent now. Players plan appropriately.

It's a little forced, but it has to be because I run an open table game. It's almost impossible to get the same players to show up for another session close enough together that at least one player won't want to use that character in the mean time.

[Asensur]

I don't really understand how you make this work. Do you mean that even if they rest in game they don't gain the benefits of a long rest until a session ends? And when a session ends they just magically gain the benefits of a long rest even if you're in the middle of a situation where they couldn't get one?

First question, yes they get it (it is the last thing they do at the session).
Second question, normally yes (because the level, dungeon or dungeon is cleared). Although exceptions exists.

I do this for them to dose their rests, as it is an easily abusable mechanic without the DM mending with the universe/story.

[djreynolds]

The first short rest after a long rest takes 10 minutes.
The second short rest after a long rest takes 30 minutes.
The third, and subsequent, short rests after a long rest takes 1 hour.

[QUOTE=Misterwhisper;24321157]The length of the short rest is not the problem, story pacing where nobody takes them is the problem.
QUOTE]

I see both sides of the story here.

Its just so tough to make players take a short rest, to understand its value, and risk vs reward

So this is not a bad idea, at least players will take the first short rest.

It common on long forced marches to basically take a break every three to 5 miles. You're adjusting gear, running into the woods to pee, and taking off your boots maybe to look at your feet.

Some of thinking is, "hey we are in a dangerous place, how can we stop for 1 hour. Surely someone must've heard this"

Not everyone will or should need access to the rope trick spell.

Really only the rogue and sorcerer do not benefit from short resting, but the whole party benefits from the fighter being on their feet.

How about different types of short rests?

10 minutes will allow 1 hit die

20 minutes will replenish 1 class ability and 1 hit die

30 minutes will replenish 2 class abilities and 2 hit die

40 will replenish 3 class abilities and 3 hit die

60 minutes will replenish all.

And you can choose 1, and then it is gone til after the next long rest

I'm making this up, could work

[stoutstien]

I wonder what the statistics are of tables that don't get long rests every session.

[Galithar]

I wonder what the statistics are of tables that don't get long rests every session.

Well I play at 2 tables and DM 1. At one table we have taken a long rest at the end of each session (but I've only been at it for 2 sessions now) the other we take a long rest in probably 80% of sessions. The one I DM is probably about 60-70% of the time. I know we've never gone 2 sessions in a row without a long rest.

Sometimes when we have an extremely long, resource depleting fight we've even had 2 long rests in a session though. That's not common though, and usually means we are long resting towards the start of the session because we didn't take one the previous session.

[stoutstien]

Well I play at 2 tables and DM 1. At one table we have taken a long rest at the end of each session (but I've only been at it for 2 sessions now) the other we take a long rest in probably 80% of sessions. The one I DM is probably about 60-70% of the time. I know we've never gone 2 sessions in a row without a long rest.

Sometimes when we have an extremely long, resource depleting fight we've even had 2 long rests in a session though. That's not common though, and usually means we are long resting towards the start of the session because we didn't take one the previous session.

I'm probably an extreme outliner but I say on average most of my tables take a long rest every other session or less.
The most extreme is one table that's playing a very harsh survival focused campaign or on there coming up 6 session without a long rest. where the last three sessions then being pursued by a massive army of army fire ants that explode when they die.

The last few years I've moved away from trying to make sure the sessions line up with the recovery cycle. I like you and eat session with a cliffhanger or dramatic scene. Long rests are the polar opposite of this.

[Galithar]

I'm probably an extreme outliner but I say on average most of my tables take a long rest every other session or less.
The most extreme is one table that's playing a very harsh survival focused campaign or on there coming up 6 session without a long rest. where the last three sessions then being pursued by a massive army of army fire ants that explode when they die.

The last few years I've moved away from trying to make sure the sessions line up with the recovery cycle. I like you and eat session with a cliffhanger or dramatic scene. Long rests are the polar opposite of this.


Well 6 sessions is almost certainly an extreme outlier on time between long rests haha.

I don't try to make it line up, but my group also resists being left on a cliffhanger. They'll pressure me into extending the session when I do. I don't always give in, but I'm usually just as excited to get to the resolution of the action as them though!

I am a huge fan of making them wait a week before a boss fight though. Sometimes even going as far as the roll for initiative, then I just record everything and tell them next week! Mostly because I know with 6 players a multistage boss fight with enemy reinforcements coming in etc. can take my group 2+ hours to resolve. It's better to start on that then have 1 or 2 have to leave mid fight and/or stopping mid fight.

[Contrast]

In my case, it's "get out of the adventuring site before the end of session, or the party is considered lost."

It seems we're playing very different style of games :smallbiggrin: Do people not get grumpy at writing a character off just because they were too cautious in exploring so they ran out of real world time?


First question, yes they get it (it is the last thing they do at the session).
Second question, normally yes (because the level, dungeon or dungeon is cleared). Although exceptions exists.

I do this for them to dose their rests, as it is an easily abusable mechanic without the DM mending with the universe/story.

I feel like you answered my question without answering what I actually wanted to know :smalltongue: For example - my party ended last session having just extracated ourselves from a combat but still mid-escape (enemies are right behind us). Would you still just gain a long rest in that situation (would that not create a metagame where people know they can nova at a certain time)? Would you just not stop playing in that situation (does that not cause issues with scheduling)? Per the above, would the party be written off as goners?

And if you all sat down to game and they fought a hard battle 30 mins in and had no time pressures and decided to long rest you'd...end session? Just tell them they couldn't do that? Only let them benefit from a short rest even though they hung around 8 hours?

[stoutstien]

Well 6 sessions is almost certainly an extreme outlier on time between long rests haha.

I don't try to make it line up, but my group also resists being left on a cliffhanger. They'll pressure me into extending the session when I do. I don't always give in, but I'm usually just as excited to get to the resolution of the action as them though!

I am a huge fan of making them wait a week before a boss fight though. Sometimes even going as far as the roll for initiative, then I just record everything and tell them next week! Mostly because I know with 6 players a multistage boss fight with enemy reinforcements coming in etc. can take my group 2+ hours to resolve. It's better to start on that then have 1 or 2 have to leave mid fight and/or stopping mid fight.

I love boss fights! who doesn't? but it does bring up the interesting question of how well rested is the party before they face it? A party with low resources turns a deadly encounter into a possible TPK and full Resources can turn an epic capstone fight into am one turn wonder.

I tricked that I have adopted is turning a single boss fight into multiple encounters. Driving the dragon deeper into it's lair, the lich teleports away and sends some minions to occupy you while it regroups, the giant finally slows from the wounds inflicted by the heros as they drive it away from the village.

A real hard effect to pull off is the party and boss taking turns giving ground. But the ones that I pulled this off on or the fights that the groups talk about for years.

[Asensur]

It seems we're playing very different style of games :smallbiggrin: Do people not get grumpy at writing a character off just because they were too cautious in exploring so they ran out of real world time?



I feel like you answered my question without answering what I actually wanted to know :smalltongue: For example - my party ended last session having just extracated ourselves from a combat but still mid-escape (enemies are right behind us). Would you still just gain a long rest in that situation (would that not create a metagame where people know they can nova at a certain time)? Would you just not stop playing in that situation (does that not cause issues with scheduling)? Per the above, would the party be written off as goners?

And if you all sat down to game and they fought a hard battle 30 mins in and had no time pressures and decided to long rest you'd...end session? Just tell them they couldn't do that? Only let them benefit from a short rest even though they hung around 8 hours?

I think I already said that I make exceptions ^_^. F. E: my recent group has been kidnapped by redbrands, so it is obvious they cannot benefit for a long rest.

About the second, I always activate time pressures within the dungeon, even if it doesn't affect them directly. So, if they told me they take a long rest and continue playing I take a note, I put a "rest counter" in front of them, and if they keep resting I make events at the world.

[Tanarii]

It seems we're playing very different style of games :smallbiggrin: Do people not get grumpy at writing a character off just because they were too cautious in exploring so they ran out of real world time?

Nah. If it happens, it means they already allowed themselves to become cut off with no hope of getting out. Otherwise they can just tell me they pull out. All we're doing is skipping the inevitable TPK and replacing it with an undefined "lost".

[stoutstien]

Nah. If it happens, it means they already allowed themselves to become cut off with no hope of getting out. Otherwise they can just tell me they pull out. All we're doing is skipping the inevitable TPK and replacing it with an undefined "lost".

How do you handle teleportation effects? Are the just worth alot more in this style of play?

[Man_Over_Game]

The length of the short rest is not the problem, story pacing where nobody takes them is the problem.

How often are you in a situation where you have 10 mins but not an hour, or one hour but not 8?

I feel like this is a problem that many players have experienced, and many DMs do not. Most people who think this is a problem take means to work around that problem, and the others either aren't aware of the issue or already solve it using other means (like pacing your game in a way that allows Short Rests naturally).

In the games I've experienced, I generally end up in about 1-2 fights in a day of adventuring about, often not enough to warrant a "break". In my last campaign, I got to level 3 without ever needing a Short Rest. That's not necessarily the norm, but it is for many.

To put it in another perspective, if finding ways of taking a break was valuable, the Dreams Druid would be probably one of the better Druid options. Yet, it's often considered one of the worst.

[Lupine]

10 minutes is such a perfect length of time I'm surprised its not what they did in the first place. Its long enouth to be conceptually sound, catching your breath, binding wounds, sharpening weapons, reading spells, etc.

Well, 10 minutes really... isn’t. I’ve done some long-ish backpacking before (ten consecutive days), and there are three common types of rest while on the trail:
1) the shortest rest: you lean on your hiking poles, look at the scenery, and take a couple breaths. These breaks last anywhere from one to five minutes. This type of “rest” generally is not talked about in D&D.
2) Pack removal rest: you take off your pack, scratch the pack itches, and maybe grab a snack. You stay on your feet, however. These are relatively rare, and last ten-ish minutes. Generally, you do these when you’re just conquered a hill, or some other challenge.
3) Sit down rest: this is the only type of trail rest where you sit down. Part of that process, your muscles stiffen, and you could actually injure yourself if you get going again too quickly. This type of rest, takes at least 20 minutes, but often more like 30 minutes. But that’s only after hiking: after a fight, this would last longer, and an hour is totally reasonable.

Honestly, I don’t know why you’d bother with shortening short rests; they’re already the perfect length. (Honestly, rest times are one of the few things Wizards of the Coast did right, imo)

[Man_Over_Game]

Well, 10 minutes really... isn’t. I’ve done some long-ish backpacking before (ten consecutive days), and there are three common types of rest while on the trail:
1) the shortest rest: you lean on your hiking poles, look at the scenery, and take a couple breaths. These breaks last anywhere from one to five minutes. This type of “rest” generally is not talked about in D&D.
2) Pack removal rest: you take off your pack, scratch the pack itches, and maybe grab a snack. You stay on your feet, however. These are relatively rare, and last ten-ish minutes. Generally, you do these when you’re just conquered a hill, or some other challenge.
3) Sit down rest: this is the only type of trail rest where you sit down. Part of that process, your muscles stiffen, and you could actually injure yourself if you get going again too quickly. This type of rest, takes at least 20 minutes, but often more like 30 minutes. But that’s only after hiking: after a fight, this would last longer, and an hour is totally reasonable.

Honestly, I don’t know why you’d bother with shortening short rests; they’re already the perfect length. (Honestly, rest times are one of the few things Wizards of the Coast did right, imo)

The question that everyone needs to answer is:

"Would making Short Rests take less time make them more frequent?"

For me, the answer is "No". Time isn't the limiting factor for Short Rests at my table.

[MaxWilson]

The first short rest after a long rest takes 10 minutes.
The second short rest after a long rest takes 30 minutes.
The third, and subsequent, short rests after a long rest takes 1 hour.

I'd use this rule as long as it was a real-time 10 minutes/30 minutes/1 hour. :)

If players don't feel like taking a 30 minute break yet, PCs probably don't either.

[stoutstien]

Well, 10 minutes really... isn’t. I’ve done some long-ish backpacking before (ten consecutive days), and there are three common types of rest while on the trail:
1) the shortest rest: you lean on your hiking poles, look at the scenery, and take a couple breaths. These breaks last anywhere from one to five minutes. This type of “rest” generally is not talked about in D&D.
2) Pack removal rest: you take off your pack, scratch the pack itches, and maybe grab a snack. You stay on your feet, however. These are relatively rare, and last ten-ish minutes. Generally, you do these when you’re just conquered a hill, or some other challenge.
3) Sit down rest: this is the only type of trail rest where you sit down. Part of that process, your muscles stiffen, and you could actually injure yourself if you get going again too quickly. This type of rest, takes at least 20 minutes, but often more like 30 minutes. But that’s only after hiking: after a fight, this would last longer, and an hour is totally reasonable.

Honestly, I don’t know why you’d bother with shortening short rests; they’re already the perfect length. (Honestly, rest times are one of the few things Wizards of the Coast did right, imo)

The average thru-hiker would definitely need to take a few breathers but we are talking about individuals who can surpass the world record standing broad jump in a full suit of armor while swinging a sword right after running a Marathon and having a few back-to-back fights that would leave even the best athletics doubled over.
Realism is not the goal with rest but more to provide some complexity in player choices between short rest and long rest mechanics. The 1 or 10 minute short rest allows more narrative freedom without tipping the balance too much towards the classes that are majority long rest focus.

[MaxWilson]

The average thru-hiker would definitely need to take a few breathers but we are talking about individuals who can surpass the world record standing broad jump in a full suit of armor while swinging a sword right after running a Marathon and having a few back-to-back fights that would leave even the best athletics doubled over.

And yet, they also cannot outrun a fifth-grader.

[stoutstien]

And yet, they also cannot outrun a fifth-grader.
This I can't dispute lol. I wish they just added a line in the player handbook that said, "hey everything moves slow just to keep everybody on the battle map ok?"

I've been playing with different scale maps to see if I can get more range/ movement speed up to snuff.

Mentally I think both players look like sumo wrestlers trying to Sprint.

[djreynolds]

Anyway you shake it, a player will find a way to take advantage of it?

I have heard the fairest way is to take a short rest character and times his powers by two or three, this is done to include a possible 2 short rests a day. I have done this.... but when you look at the actual numbers, the short rest types may come out on top.

For example:

X3: 3rd level battlemaster would have 12 maneuvers, 3 action surges and 3 second winds a long rest, that's pretty strong for a 3rd level character..... is it not. Compare this to a 3rd level wizard, who has 4 1st level spells and 2 second, is this fair?

X2: 3rd level battlemaster would have 8 maneuvers, 2 action surges and 2 second winds a long rest and to be quite honest... this is pretty strong even when compared to 3rd level wizard who has again 4 1st level spell and a 2nd second

So the multiplication of powers may not be the best, at least at lower levels... perhaps at higher levels it might be fairer

X3: 15 level battlemaster would have 12 maneuvers, 3 action surge and 3 second winds vs a 15 level wizard 4/3/3/3/2/1/1/1... here the numbers feel equal at least

Perhaps we could say, you get half your proficiency modifier Xs your level for short rest dependent abilities... rolling for hit die... well I don't know

The RAW way is to just take a short rest, and roll a random encounter. The only issue is the long rest party members don't want to. Or the story prohibits a short rest at this time. This happens.

So Mark Hall's idea of short rest penalty is actually excellent, its the fairest regardless of level

I think if players were told ahead of time, you have available 3 short rest. One 10 minute, one 30 minute, and 1 hour is honestly the best solution I have heard.

Now players may ask, "Can I use these in any order?", obviously saving the 10 minute for possibly the last encounter.

I like the idea, its the fairest I have heard. Your 1st short rest is 10 minutes, your next is 30, and your third is an 1 hour. Simple