Divine soul Sorcerers using cleric magic items. Yes or no?

[Sindal]

Hi all.

This is just getting a public feel and opinion on this.
I'm well aware that by rules, divine soul sorcerers are not able to do this and am more than happy with this.

But in the hypothetical scenario that your player asked you and in your opinion:
Would you allow divine soul sorcerers the ability to use magic items that have a 'required:cleric' tag. (Such as, say, a staff of healing) There aren't that many, but still.

Why them specifically when other subclasses also gain magic? They're the only fullcaster that gets the ENTIRETY of the cleric spell list added to their list, instead of a few select spells here and there. It's a bit of a heavy lean compared to other subclasses of classes that dip into some magic.

I wouldn't immediately put it out there, but if a player asked me, I'd probably allow them.
Thoughts?

[OldTrees1]

One option: They could lose Required: Sorcerer and gain Required: Cleric. (fits well if they are using the Sorcerer class to represent a Priest rather than a Cleric)

Or we could adjudicate each item on a case by case basis. (Item and Character being the relevant factors on the case by case basis)

[Keltest]

In general, I tend to read class requirements like that as involving specific training and abilities to use the item correctly. A druid can heal, but they wouldn't know the specific magic of the staff any more than they could cast magic missile. A sorcerer gets the same outcome when they cast a spell, but the internal mechanics of how they cast it and where the power comes from are (nominally) different.

Having said that, im not terribly picky about rules like this. If somebody desperately wanted to use it, especially if there wasn't a proper cleric in the group, i'd let them.

[Asensur]

If there is already a Cleric in your group it should be a no (avoid making your PCs fight for the same magic items)
If there isn't, check if the item is restricted for the class due to balance reasons first.

EDIT: also, be careful about amendments to the rules. It will make a precedent to your players, and if you divine soul sorcerer gets OP due to this it would make them difficult to choose a cleric over this option. Study the subclass and the item first and how they interact.

[ezekielraiden]

If the function of the item is specifically to replicate a Cleric spell (in other words, something the Divine Soul could already do if they chose that spell as a spell known), I'd probably allow it.

If it's an item that expands on any Cleric feature they don't have, or which allows more uses of a feature etc., I would not allow it.

However, this sounds like a really neat idea--the kind of thing that either results from player investment, or generates it. So I'd say, make a process of it. Divine Soul wants to use Cleric items? Have them put the effort in. They need to purify themselves, kindle the spark of divine power, attune with the will of their deity, etc. If you make this a quest with "you can now use items like a Cleric" as a reward, it's suddenly both more interesting, and more mechanically-appropriate. That is, if you do this, it is (or should be) balanced against the other party members getting their Special Stuff from advancing their own interests and story.

[stoutstien]

As a general rule I avoid class restrictions on items other than very specific cases like holy symbols and those are more tied to an individual deity more than a class. Just cleaner IMO

[Sigreid]

I would probably allow them to use abilities in the cleric magic item that match with the spells they added to their spell list as a divine sorcerer.

[JackPhoenix]

Why them specifically when other subclasses also gain magic? They're the only fullcaster that gets the ENTIRETY of the cleric spell list added to their list, instead of a few select spells here and there. It's a bit of a heavy lean compared to other subclasses of classes that dip into some magic.

They don't. They do get to pick some spells from cleric list and add them to sorcerer list for them, but they do not have blank access to entire cleric list. Think of it as modified Magical Secrets available at every level. A bard also can't use scroll of Fireball if he didn't add that spell to his list, even if he gets to pick from every spell in the game, it's the same with DS sorcerer.

[Sindal]

They don't. They do get to pick some spells from cleric list and add them to sorcerer list for them, but they do not have blank access to entire cleric list. Think of it as modified Magical Secrets available at every level. A bard also can't use scroll of Fireball if he didn't add that spell to his list, even if he gets to pick from every spell in the game, it's the same with DS sorcerer.

Clarifying: 'Their list' is 'their list of spells to choose from'. I made that point because other subclasses will get a subset of spells from a larger list to choose spells form (Like how celestial warlocks get some of the cleric spells as options, the 1/3 are specific schools of magic, land druids having set domain spells) while the divine soul gets a choice of 'every' spell as something they can add. Their only limitar is their own spells known mechanic.

Though I'm assuming your answer would be no then?
Note for the survey =)

[Chronos]

"Class spell list" still has relevance for magic items, though. For instance, if a sorcerer happens not to choose a particular cleric spell, they can't use a scroll of it, either. But they can use a scroll of Fireball, even if they didn't pick it, because Fireball is on the sorcerer class spell list.

[nickl_2000]

Scrolls for spells on the cleric spell list: yes

Anything else: no

You are not a cleric, you just happen to have access to their spell list. There is a big difference in my mind there.


Would you let an arcane trickster or EK use a wizard staff/wand/robe? My answer there would also be no, you aren’t a wizard, you are a fighter/rogue who can do some wizard things.

[Jophiel]

I'd generally say no but, if they were the group healer, might let it pass. Definitely not if the group already had a cleric. I don't usually roll random items though so I'd already have an intent for the item before they found it anyway.

[Theaitetos]

Usually no, but everyone having fun is the most important thing, so if your party has a divine soul sorcerer or a celestial warlock instead of a cleric as "healer/supporter", let them use the appropriate cleric items.

[kazaryu]

Hi all.

This is just getting a public feel and opinion on this.
I'm well aware that by rules, divine soul sorcerers are not able to do this and am more than happy with this.

But in the hypothetical scenario that your player asked you and in your opinion:
Would you allow divine soul sorcerers the ability to use magic items that have a 'required:cleric' tag. (Such as, say, a staff of healing) There aren't that many, but still.

Why them specifically when other subclasses also gain magic? They're the only fullcaster that gets the ENTIRETY of the cleric spell list added to their list, instead of a few select spells here and there. It's a bit of a heavy lean compared to other subclasses of classes that dip into some magic.

I wouldn't immediately put it out there, but if a player asked me, I'd probably allow them.
Thoughts?

eh, seems fine to me probably. i'd def be fine with it if they were already a religous person. or if (as someone mentioned) they were playing their sorc as a priest, just with a different source of magic. probably not going to be too game breaking, gives the sorc more options.

i do like the persons suggestion of making a bit of a process out of it. so they end up effectively getting 1 'level' of cleric. but only for the purposes of like...that. they don't have to actually give up a level. you get what i mean.

[JoeJ]

Does there even need to be a general answer? As a DM, you only have to decide who can use those specific magic items you place in the PC's way. If you allow a PC sorcerer to use, for example, the staff of healing they found, that doesn't necessarily mean they would have been able to use a different staff of healing; if magic items are individually crafted by different people at different times for different purposes, they might have different requirements, even if they're the same "kind" of item. (Of course, I've always considered the magic items in the DMG and the monsters in the MM to be more like examples than actual rules.)

[Cikomyr]

My favourite answer to "can I allow my player to break the rules for this detail" is "let them roll for it "

Let your player roll a Religion or Arcana check, substituting intelligence with Charisma as the relevant stat. Make the DC to be proportional to the power of the magic item.

And yes, make them roll every time.

Also, if they fail and really really want to use the magic item, just have them spend Sorcery points to unlock the magic item for a minute.

DnD is a cool game especially if you allow cool ****, but your players feel they are working for that cool ****.

[MrStabby]

Make up your own items, apply your own rules.

Some generic staff is cool, but a specific staff with a specific history and unique abilities is cooler. You control what loot there is in the world - build something that will be fun for the player.