Help picking my next class/subclass

[Elmakai]

Hello everyone. Long time lurker here, but I decided to create an account and ask for advice on picking a character class to pick. I normally can work this stuff out myself, but I'm in a stump. This will probably be fairly long, to give enough background. First and foremost, I've played DnD/Pathfinder for a while. I've created many characters, including helping many others create theirs. I've DMed multiple times, played with many different people, etc. But I'm still somewhat new to the 5e system. I've played a little bit of AL, but not enough to give it a fair comparison IMO.

So the group I'm playing with currently started off at level 8, currently level 9. I like playing at this level, compared to level 1. But, because of personal reasons (not me, but others in the group clashing) I don't foresee it lasting too much longer. There is already talk about creating a separate game and/or leaving this one and restructuring it to where some people are not included. And by the looks of it, we are going to run a module that is going to be starting at level 1, or at least close to.

When I started with this group, I chose to play a Diviner Wizard. And I purposefully avoided being a blaster - I wanted to be CC/utility in combat. I've played plenty of blaster classes before, so I wanted to challenge myself. Used Treantmonk's guide, read many forums and articles on it. And I ended up hating it. Essentially, it came down to what felt like a 50/50 shot that I was going to be useful in that turn: I roll for a spell attack and miss, the creature saves, etc. Basically, I stood there and hoped a spell that I was casting would work, then end of turn.

I switched to a Drunken Master Monk, and loved it. Managing Ki points, maximizing action economy, using Flurry of Blows to grant me disengage and extra movement and moving away, using the Pole-arm Master feat to give me opportunity attacks just by them moving up to me on their turn, getting the Booming Blade cantrip to damage them on my turn and their own turn when the move, etc. Basically I would hit some folks, move just out of the way so they have to move up, and hit them again.



The problem is two fold. 1. I doubt I am going to enjoy a level 1 monk anywhere near as much, and 2. I don't like to play the same classes over and over. I really like to mix it up. So what would your opinion be for another class I should try? I seem to gravitate towards classes that use action economy well. I also like to think long term - I don't want to play a class that's great at level 1 but after that it become less and less helpful. I was going to post my thoughts on each class and some subclasses, but I think that would be unnecessary. Here are things I am leaning towards:

Fighter - Battle Master. Either archer or melee tank/CC build. If going the melee way, maybe combine the Sentinel Feat and Polearm Master feat along with the maneuvers to stop enemies dead in their tracks.

Warlock - Use Eldritch Blast as a primary attack, use spells to give versatility to situations as needed. Not sure which subclass.

Sorcerer - Manage sorcery points to give myself an edge to mix and match as I please using metamagic. Possibly Wild Mage just for the extra fun of having to carefully navigate the battlefield around enemies/allies.

Paladin - Same thing as Warlock. Use Divine Smite or save it for spell slots. I somewhat feel like this may get old quick, but it seemed interesting from the get-go.



Fyi, I have not played any of the classes I mentioned above, so these are guesses based on how I read them. Anything I'm missing? Any other ideas? I don't typically multiclass (I did a lot in 3.5, but that's a different story), but I am not at all opposed to it.

[Expected]

Monk is strong at early levels if you start with 16 in both Dex and Wis because they'll have 16 AC and a built-in BA attack. They do get weaker in regards to defense (scales by ASI's) as they level.

If you don't want to multiclass, I'd suggest going straight Paladin and taking the Oath of Heroism from UA, if allowed, otherwise OoV.

If you do want to multiclass, Sorlockadins (Paladin 2 or 6, Warlock 1 or 2, and the rest Sorcerer) are fun and very strong.

[Anderlith]

I would suggest Battle Master Fighter. I find them really evocative to play.

[Nidgit]

Rogue is a pretty good, action-efficient class. Any subclass will do, but Thief, Arcane Trickster, Swashbuckler, and Scout are probably the better options.

Bard is always there too. Nothing says action economy like handing out Inspiration.

[Nagog]

If you're looking into Warlock and into new playstyles, I've been playing and plotting a build for my GOOlock for a while (I actually came here to post some questions about it but got distracted). The GOOlock is a great manipulator, which is a fun playstyle for campaigns that have a healthy mix of combat and interaction, and even more fun if the balance leans toward interaction. Friends and Disguise Self at will via Mask of Many Faces is a good way to get your enemies to fight each other (or cause infighting in other parties and factions should they become troublesome), and the Thrall is a great way to manipulate things on a higher level when you can access somebody important. If not, a good persuasion/deception roll (combined with Disguise Self perhaps?) can get a lesser powerful version of Thrall if you have the UA Far Scribe Invocation for Tome. Also getting access to Dominate Person is always a good use of your limited spell slots.

[bid]

Fyi, I have not played any of the classes I mentioned above, so these are guesses based on how I read them. Anything I'm missing? Any other ideas? I don't typically multiclass (I did a lot in 3.5, but that's a different story), but I am not at all opposed to it.
The bigger problem is how are you going to roleplay?

If your group is mechanist, BM / bladelock / paladin are 3 flavor of the same and sorcerer is a focussed blaster.

If you are the party face, bladelock is the most Cha-SAD of the picks but it suffers terribly from lack of short rest.

If you will spend lots of time talking and less time killing, it come down to which oath fits your concept, which patron makes the best story.

[djreynolds]

I like an elven samurai archer with elven accuracy and sharpshooter.
Time out action surge with fighting spirit. Get wisdom saves at 7th.

Half orc wolf totem barbarian. Grab GWM and go to town. Reckless attack and rage and a Great axe. And your friends get advantage.

Hill dwarf life cleric and grab magic initiate druid for shillelagh and quarterstaff... very Friar Tuck. Healing galore

[Theaitetos]

Warlock - Use Eldritch Blast as a primary attack, use spells to give versatility to situations as needed. Not sure which subclass.

Since you like action economy and managing so much, take Chain Pact, so that you have to manage your familiar in battle as well. Gets even "managy-er" with the new invocations from Class Features Variants UA.


Sorcerer - Manage sorcery points to give myself an edge to mix and match as I please using metamagic. Possibly Wild Mage just for the extra fun of having to carefully navigate the battlefield around enemies/allies.

The main metamagic for action economy is Quickened Spell, which costs 2sp per use, and you only get 1sp per level. It's extremely powerful when used, but don't expect to use it frequently – or take 1 to 3 levels in warlock for the short rest spell slots → sorcery points (2sp@level 1, 4sp@level 3).

And since you said you don't want to play so much blasters anymore, you can try the Divine Soul subclass, which is a supporter/controller. Twinned Spell is op at early levels and potentially godlike at late levels (twinned Wish anyone?).

[DevilMcam]

When in doubt you can always go cleric / warlock.
Great RP engines, can cover any roles in the party and fairly resilient as well.
I am especially fond of Light cleric.
You have the Great cleric toolkit + faery fire for debuffing, fireball if blasting is needed and can force disadvantage as tu réaction.
Start with à Shield and à free hand.
Put 16 WIS 14 con and 14 dex with your point buy or racials for 18 AC and the versatility to be the healer, the tank, the Blaster and the (de)buffer. Whatever the party needs you got it covered

[Man on Fire]

If youbdo go with Monk, I recommend Monk/Battlemaster combo.

[bid]

Twinned Spell is op at early levels and potentially godlike at late levels (twinned Wish anyone?).
You cannot twin Range: self spells.

[Theaitetos]

You cannot twin Range: self spells.

But you can twin appropriate duplicated spells.

[bid]

But you can twin appropriate duplicated spells.
The spell simply takes effect.

You could interpret that you are casting wish (which can't be twinned). Since you aren't casting the 8th level spell, you cannot twin it.

Now, maybe you can interpret it differently. But it's not a sure thing.

[Elmakai]

Monk is strong at early levels if you start with 16 in both Dex and Wis because they'll have 16 AC and a built-in BA attack. They do get weaker in regards to defense (scales by ASI's) as they level.

If you don't want to multiclass, I'd suggest going straight Paladin and taking the Oath of Heroism from UA, if allowed, otherwise OoV.

If you do want to multiclass, Sorlockadins (Paladin 2 or 6, Warlock 1 or 2, and the rest Sorcerer) are fun and very strong.



You know, for some reason I didn't even consider the Sorlockadin/Sorcadin/etc. I've read about it before, but completely forgot about it. Thank you!

[Elmakai]

I would suggest Battle Master Fighter. I find them really evocative to play.

I was thinking the same thing. It sounds great, but I haven't had a chance to play with it yet. Would you suggest a melee or archery build?

[Elmakai]

Rogue is a pretty good, action-efficient class. Any subclass will do, but Thief, Arcane Trickster, Swashbuckler, and Scout are probably the better options.


I had considered that. But I feel like with the Swashbucker in particular is a single strike, and move out of the way. And the Assassin was also a one trick pony - attack first. Then everything plays out like a normal rogue. Unless I am missing something.




Bard is always there too. Nothing says action economy like handing out Inspiration.

Isn't that a once per 10 minutes? I mean, it's nice and all, but I feel like it's a "set it and forget it" type feature.

[Elmakai]

I like an elven samurai archer with elven accuracy and sharpshooter.
Time out action surge with fighting spirit. Get wisdom saves at 7th.


I am not sure how the Samurai helps the archery. Since I'm going to be at a distance, the temporary hit points will typically be less helpful than being in melee range. I would think going with Arcane Archer or Battlemaster might be more beneficial to the actual archery, no?




Half orc wolf totem barbarian. Grab GWM and go to town. Reckless attack and rage and a Great axe. And your friends get advantage.

I do like Barbarians, as simple as they are. They may not do a lot, but at least do it well consistently.

[Elmakai]

The main metamagic for action economy is Quickened Spell, which costs 2sp per use, and you only get 1sp per level. It's extremely powerful when used, but don't expect to use it frequently – or take 1 to 3 levels in warlock for the short rest spell slots → sorcery points (2sp@level 1, 4sp@level 3).

And since you said you don't want to play so much blasters anymore, you can try the Divine Soul subclass, which is a supporter/controller. Twinned Spell is op at early levels and potentially godlike at late levels (twinned Wish anyone?).


Good point on the Queicked spell. And it's not that I don't like to play blasters, it's that the last time I tried to deviate from what I normally do, with not so great results. TBH, I didn't even really consider a healing/support class until now.

[Elmakai]

If you're looking into Warlock and into new playstyles, I've been playing and plotting a build for my GOOlock for a while (I actually came here to post some questions about it but got distracted). The GOOlock is a great manipulator, which is a fun playstyle for campaigns that have a healthy mix of combat and interaction, and even more fun if the balance leans toward interaction. Friends and Disguise Self at will via Mask of Many Faces is a good way to get your enemies to fight each other (or cause infighting in other parties and factions should they become troublesome), and the Thrall is a great way to manipulate things on a higher level when you can access somebody important. If not, a good persuasion/deception roll (combined with Disguise Self perhaps?) can get a lesser powerful version of Thrall if you have the UA Far Scribe Invocation for Tome. Also getting access to Dominate Person is always a good use of your limited spell slots.

I'll check it out, but I'm more of a combat focus player, and just roll (pun intended) with whatever stats that gives me socially. Am I playing a large dumb Barbarian? Then I respond to conversations as if I am completely out of the loop but thinks otherwise. Playing a highly intelligent Wizard with low physical stats? Then I play a reserved character who reverses most of his conversation until he has knowledge of something others don't.

[Man_Over_Game]

It sounds like you want something complex, versatile, but solves their problems through combat and force.

Ignoring any classes you've already played, my recommendations (in order) are:


Sorcerer
Druid
Cleric
Warlock
Bard
Ranger
Paladin
Fighter


Sorcerers make excellent CC controllers, since they can Twin Concentration spells. Since nobody else can cast more than 1 Concentration spell at a time, Sorcerers cast them past what anybody else can. Just make sure you get spells that can be utilized for multiple things (get Catapult, not Chromatic Orb).

Druids utilize a lot of Action Economy, with things like Heat Metal and Moonbeam. Supposedly, Moon Druids are some of the most complicated and difficult things to play, if you're up for the challenge.

Clerics can come equipped with heavy armor and martial weapons, meaning that they have several solutions to different problems. Tempest Clerics, in particular, have been said to be very fun combat-oriented options.

Warlocks are fun, but can get dull in combat due to their spell limitations.

Bards are very versatile and capable in combat, but they shine better out of it.

[djreynolds]

I am not sure how the Samurai helps the archery. Since I'm going to be at a distance, the temporary hit points will typically be less helpful than being in melee range. I would think going with Arcane Archer or Battlemaster might be more beneficial to the actual archery, no?

I do like Barbarians, as simple as they are. They may not do a lot, but at least do it well consistently.

Samurai
Elven accuracy
Sharpshooter
action surge
bonus action fighting spirit
All attacks at triple advantage

At 5th that's 4 attacks with sharpshooter
At 11th that's 6 attacks with sharpshooter

3 times a day basically if short rest twice.

When you want to nova, samurai very easy to do so.

[Theaitetos]

The spell simply takes effect.

You could interpret that you are casting wish (which can't be twinned). Since you aren't casting the 8th level spell, you cannot twin it.

Now, maybe you can interpret it differently. But it's not a sure thing.

Hah, I found it, Wish can be twinned:



Can my sorcerer use Twinned Spell on a spell duplicated by the casting of a wish spell? And if so, how many sorcery points does it cost?
Yes, you can. It costs the number of sorcery points appropriate for the level of the spell you’re duplicating.

[bid]

Hah, I found it, Wish can be twinned:
Nice.:smallsmile:

[MrStabby]

I usually say that if in doubt you should play a cleric.

Clerics open up a lot of different styles with their domain options - both for RP and mechanically.

If your concern is your spells not having an effect, cleric spells are usually pretty reliable as they often target your own party and don't need saves.

Good cleric spells include spiritual weapon and spirit guardians - more akin to blasting spells than the "pass a save and nothing happens" spells.

Domains can add more to this - and give you a balance of spells that don't need saves to be effective, spells that still do stuff on a save and spells that hit enough enemies that you are pretty likely that ONE will fail.

[TheUser]

My vote is for sorcerer but only if you think you'll be getting to level 3 quickly.

Early levels they just suck because they have very little spells and no metamagic backing it up.

You seem like an experienced player and Sorcerer gets to scratch that itch of cool spell customization once they do get metamagic.

I'd wager you'll have no problems exploring the class for yourself since you've already dealt with "mathfinder" but it can be a bit tough to optimize.

Obligatory plug of my guide which isn't half bad if I do say so myself.