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Theodoxus
2019-12-25, 04:40 AM
I'm curious on your thoughts of this archetype. One thing to consider, I don't allow normal multiclassing. Instead, I use a feat based system, maxing out at 6 levels. This limitation affects the number of sneak dice from Rogue (primarily) the archetype could add on. I wholly recognize that even a Rogue 2 dip in a normal rules game could be quite powerful...

Thug

Thugs are brigands, highwaymen or general brutes who mix roguish talents with martial capability. Mastering swordsmanship, the common thug strikes fear into those who face them, feeling the quick bite of their blade.

Improved Swordsmanship
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain the Dueling Fighting Style. If you already have it, you can choose either Defense or Great Weapon Fighting.
Also at 3rd level, a longsword is treated as finesse when used one-handed so long as you aren't using a shield or offhand weapon. A greatsword is also treated as finesse.
Finally, you gain a 1d6 sneak attack. This is exactly as the Rogue ability of the same name. Each time you gain a Martial Archetype Feature, your sneak attack damage increases by 1d6. This sneak attack die stacks with any other you might gain.

Surprise Attack
Beginning at 7th level, when wielding a longsword or greatsword and you successfully deal sneak attack damage, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action against the same target.

Cutting Blow
At 10th level, you learn to whittle away at your enemies defenses. Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you reduce their Armor Class by your proficiency bonus until the end of your next turn.

Deadly Strikes
At 15th level, your weapon strikes hit harder. When wielding a longsword or greatsword, any time you successfully hit a creature, you add both your strength and dexterity modifiers to the damage roll.

Sneaky Wound
At 18th level, when you deal sneak attack damage, the damage lingers. The following round, roll 4d6 damage and reduce the die by 1 for each round after. A creature can only have one instance of Sneaky Wound on them at a time. A second sneak attack has no additional lingering effect until the first has worn off.

JNAProductions
2019-12-25, 11:43 AM
Improved Swordsmanship doesn't fit the theme well, but feels maybe fine?

Surprise Attack is really damn good. Probably too good.

Cutting Blow is probably too good as well.

Deadly Strikes makes you MADder, so it's probably fine. Perhaps even a bit undertuned.

Sneaky Wound needs to be rewritten for more clarity, but is probably too good.

Trandir
2019-12-25, 09:23 PM
Improved Swordsmanship is too much better than the Champion's 10th level feature, you get the 2nd fighting style, finesse heavy weapon and basically a 1/2 Sneak Attack damage progression. I don't think that you should even allow a finesse heavy weapon since this takes away everything from Strength that now is worst than Dexterity in every conceivable way.

Surprise Attack is damn good. And also really weird. Why does this works only with those weapons?

Cutting Blow is also really good. If you hit once everyone basically get a +4. This needs some tweaks and also it's against 5e design to use these static malus.

Deadly Strikes is a bit sad as a feature seeing the rest. It's fine but it has that weird weapon restriction and makes the fighter a bit MADer.

Sneaky Wound is your capstone and is a debuff? As it's written I get that your SA damage becomes 4d6 and is reduced by 1d6 ever round after until you get back to that. This needs a better wording.

GalacticAxekick
2019-12-25, 11:39 PM
Improved Swordsmanship
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain the Dueling Fighting Style. If you already have it, you can choose either Defense or Great Weapon Fighting.Describing the feature as "Improved Swordsmanship" and packaging it with the dueling style does not fit the theme of a thug. I would change the name and cut this clause. "Fighting Dirty" perhaps?


Also at 3rd level, a longsword is treated as finesse when used one-handed so long as you aren't using a shield or offhand weapon. A greatsword is also treated as finesse. Instead of pigeonholing the thug into these two weapons (neither of which are the weapons I think of when I think of a thug) why not let them treat any melee weapon as a finesse weapon? It doesn't make the thug any stronger: only more versatile.

In addition, I would remove the clause that requires longswords (and other versatile weapons) to be used one-handed and without a shield or off-hand weapon. Why would a player ever use a 1d8 finesse longsword when they can use a 2d6 finesse greatsword, unless they had a shield or a weapon in their off hand?


Finally, you gain a 1d6 sneak attack. This is exactly as the Rogue ability of the same name. Each time you gain a Martial Archetype Feature, your sneak attack damage increases by 1d6. This sneak attack die stacks with any other you might gain.This seems fine!




Surprise Attack
Beginning at 7th level, when wielding a longsword or greatsword and you successfully deal sneak attack damage, you can make one weapon attack as a bonus action against the same target.Not only is this a very strong feature. But the fighter's 7th level feature is meant to support their exploration or interaction roles, not their combat role. Champions become remarkable athletes (exploration). Battle Masters learn to know their enemies (interaction). Thugs should become... more intimidating? More crafty? You can think of something.



Cutting Blow
At 10th level, you learn to whittle away at your enemies defenses. Once per turn, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you reduce their Armor Class by your proficiency bonus until the end of your next turn.Incredibly powerful. For a subclass that already does nothing but offer damage, this is too much. Neat idea though!



Deadly Strikes
At 15th level, your weapon strikes hit harder. When wielding a longsword or greatsword, any time you successfully hit a creature, you add both your strength and dexterity modifiers to the damage roll.Again, restricting it to the longsword and greatsword is both mechanically and thematically unnecessary.

Besides that, this feature is odd. If you have the stats for it, it's overpowered. If you don't have the stats for it, it's completely useless.

2d6+10 (17) greatsword damage four times a turn (68) plus 5d6 (17.5) Sneak Attack damage is 85.5 damage, routinely, before using Surprize Attacks or Cutting Blows. Compare this to the Unearthed Arcana's Brute, who routinely deals 2d6+1d10+5 (17.5) greatsword damage four times a turn (70) and has no other offensive tools.



Sneaky Wound
At 18th level, when you deal sneak attack damage, the damage lingers. The following round, roll 4d6 damage and reduce the die by 1 for each round after. A creature can only have one instance of Sneaky Wound on them at a time. A second sneak attack has no additional lingering effect until the first has worn off.I think I understood this feature better than the other two commentators:

"Starting at 18th level, when you deal Sneak Attack damage to a creature, the creature continues to take damage. At the end of the creature's next turn, the creature takes an additional 4d6 damage of the same type. At the end of each of the creature's turn after that, the creature takes an additional 3d6 damage of the same type. And so on, until the number of d6s is reduced to 0.

A creature suffering from a Sneaky Wound cannot suffer from an additional Sneaky Wound until the first has worn off."

This feature adds more damage to an already overpowered archetype, which is a quick no from me. But besides that, damage-over-time is rare in 5e because it's unfun to bookkeep. Imagine having a few of these Sneaky Wounds on different targets during the same battle, each ticking down at its own pace!

Old Harry MTX
2019-12-26, 06:32 AM
Mmm, i think you need to tune it all down a bit, and also replace some feature with some out of combat ones...