Villainous Competition XXXV: I Shall Call Him Mini-Me!

[jdizzlean]

Welcome to Round 35 of the Villainous Competition!

Previous Competitions

Round One: Leader of Armies (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?395046)
Round Two: Nature's Revenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400517)
Round Three: Double Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?406015)
Round Four: Grave Keeper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?413480)
Round Five: Crime Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?420704)
Round Six: Ultimate Predator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?430650)
Round Seven: Wicked Witch (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?444478)
Round Eight: Master of the Tundra (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?461482)
Round Nine: The Power of Villainous Thinking (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?474230)
Round Ten: Henchman Are Villains Too (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?478068)
Round Eleven: The Higher They Rise The Harder They Fall (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?483052)
Round Twelve: Power Comes at a Price (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?488846)
Round Thirteen: The Gadgeteer - You Are Not Batman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?491932)
Round Fourteen: The Thing That Should Not Be (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?496091)
Round Fifteen: The Horsemen Are Drawing Nearer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?500829)
Round Sixteen: Burn Baby Burn (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?503974)
Round Seventeen: It's Alive! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?507768)
Round Eighteen: This is Heresy (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?511933)
Round Nineteen: He Slimed Me! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?516535)
Round Twenty: Elder Evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?521560)
Round Twenty-One: Yarr! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?527415-Villainous-Competition-XXI-Yarr!)
Round Twenty-Two: I Am The Night! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?531199-Villainous-Competition-XXII-I-Am-The-Night!)
Round Twenty-Three: Two Heads Are Better Than One! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?535437-Villainous-Competition-XXIII-Two-Heads-Are-Better-Than-One)
Round Twenty-Four: Wrong For The Right Reasons! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?541650-Villainous-Competition-XXIV-Wrong-For-The-Right-Reasons)
Round Twenty-Five: Keeper of the Gate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?550139-Villainous-Competition-XXV-No-Solicitors!)
Round Twenty-Six: Get In MY BELLY (Swallow Whole) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?556705-Villainous-Competition-XXVI-Swallow-Whole!)
Round Twenty-Seven: Multiple Personality Disorder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?559748-Villainous-Competition-XXVII-Multiple-Personality-Disorder)
Round Twenty-Eight: Tiny Only! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565176-Villainous-Competition-XXVIII-Bad-Things-Come-in-Small-Packages)
Round Twenty-Nine: Halloween Special (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?573496-Villainous-Competition-XXIX-A-Halloween-Special)
Round Thirty: One Feat to Rule Them ALL (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?577930-Villainous-Competition-XXX-One-Feat-to-Rule-Them-ALL)
Round Thirty-Two: In Cold Blood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?582492-Villainous-Competition-XXXI-In-Cold-Blood)
Round Thirty-Three: oh HELL NO! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?586377-Villainous-Competition-XXXII-Oh-HELL-NO!)
Round Thirty-Three: The Do Over (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?589107-Villainous-Competition-XXXIII-The-Do-Over)
Round Thirty-Four: Sword and Board (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?600139-Villainous-Competition-XXXIV-Sword-and-Board)


We're a little different than most of the optimization threads. We run on CR instead of ECL.

Contestants:
You will need to present a write-up of your build with at least one of the following points: 5 CR, 10 CR 15 CR, 20 CR, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20 CR build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

Secret Laboratory:
Competitors will be free to use any official 1st party (WotC) 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon Compendium is allowed, but Dragon magazine is disallowed. Unearthed Arcana is allowed. Unupdated 3.0 materials, as well as web exclusives by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Item Familiars and Taint are also banned from the competition. Leadership and all similar abilities are banned for sanity reasons.
Builds that are fully monstrous are allowed at no penalty. All class levels are to be added on as associated class levels.

Elite array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) is the assumed ability score generation method.
Some monstrous characters can technically qualify for Epic feats as soon as their ECL is over 20. While regular Epic feats will be allowed, Epic Spellcasting and all other Epic feats that affect spells, psionic powers, or item creation are not permitted. Including these would give an unfair advantage over standard characters. For Incarnum characters, Epic Open Chakra feats are allowed; other Epic Incarnum feats are not. The Essentia Capacity increases for Epic capacity as described on p. 212. For all characters, please note that Racial Hit Dice do not count towards Epic Progression; use the regular progression even if the BAB ends up higher than 20.

Deadlines:
Contestants will have until So April 11th, 6pm MST is the new deadline. to create their builds and PM them to the Supreme Chancellor. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until whenever to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted. Deadlines are subject to extension as/if required.

Judging:
Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Build Elegance, Competence and Power, Memorable Villainy.
Keep these questions in mind when judging each category:
Originality - Is it unexpected?
Build Elegance - Is it mechanically pretty?
Competence and Power - Can it do what the concept asks of it? Is this a powerfully-built character?
Memorable Villainy - Is this a villain with style? Will it be the BBEG players long to finally kill and then talk about for weeks?
Unearthed Arcana can be penalized for elegance if the specific feature seems unnecessary or makes the playing field unfair (In this case, you can give a 1 if it makes the field unfair.)
Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. As the Iron Chef competition states, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
You may not judge if you entered the contest, unless you withdraw your submission.

Presentation:
Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Note:
There is now a hard limit on two (2) entries per competitor.

Using the table below, the easiest way to use it is to go to the top left of the private message, and click the little a/A icon. It allows you to see what you're writing.
Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.


CR
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


Code immediately below (spoiler).

CR
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features


1
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


2
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


3
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


4
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


5
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


6
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


7
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


8
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


9
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


10
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


11
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


12
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


13
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


14
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


15
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


16
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


17
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


18
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


19
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


20
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities


You can use the table below for Spells.

Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


Code Immediately Below,
Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known


Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th


1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-



Speculation:
Please don’t post or speculate on possible builds until the reveal, in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
Once builds are revealed, please do not comment on errors or rules issues on entries unless you are a judge. If you have such a comment, wait until the final reveal to post it.

Get ready to share those Evil thoughts. This edition’s villain is:


I shall call him… MINI ME!




Limitations



all builds must use Leadership
leadership score can only be used to acquire a Cohort
your build will be judged on how you and your Cohort work together at your snap-shotted level
Dragon Cohort is still banned for this round
Your Cohort must be of the same race and alignment as you
You must use the same Cohort for the entire build (it levels as appropriate)
Your cohort can NOT take leadership as well
Memorable Villainy will be judged on a 10 point scale for this round
Dvati is banned for this round

Must be Evil


We will award 1st through 3rd places, and a possible Honorable Mention.
So, start your evil plotting!

Submission:
To standardize Entries, please use this format when sending it in:

PM: Jdizzlean
Subject: Villainous Competition 35, Name of your Entry
For Revisions and disputes, do the same thing. It makes it easier for me finding the entries in my mail box.
More questions? PM me with Villainous Competition 35 Questions in the header.

Tips for submitting your entry, provided by Weaselguy:


- Use capitalization and punctuation, correctly.
- Make good use of Spoilers, for cleanliness.
- Don't forget your sources. If it's something that can be found in the contents section, then book title seems to be fine. Obscure stuff, may want to include page number too.
- DeviantArt has about 9 billion pictures that you can reference, I can almost guarantee you can find one there to fit your character.
- Make good use of tables. In addition to the Build table and the Spells table, I like doing on e for my Ability Scores, just to keep it neat.
- Do a build stub at the top of your Build Table, something like Wizard 2/Fighter 3/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 10



As always: let's keep it nice.

I'll mention that again - LET'S KEEP IT NICE! Bickering, name calling and nasty comments on the entries or other forum members are not tolerated.

New competition rule: if I feel an individual has been overly disruptive during the course of competition discussion, I will not be accepting and revealing any entries from that individual, and they will also not be allowed to judge. Any judging they enter will not be taken into account for the final tally.

It's sad that it had to come to this, but here's a list of permanently banned (from this Villainous Competition) members:

Novolin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?148361-Novolin)
Yklikt (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/member.php?133435-Yklikt)

[jdizzlean]

Clarifications

Unearthed Arcana variant rules are limited: The variant character options (such as Wildshape Ranger and Thug Fighter) should not be penalized. Flaws and traits may be penalized by judges, whereas item familiars, gestalt, alternate skill systems, alternate magic systems, alternate crafting rules, generic base classes, LA buyoff, fractional saves/BAB, and bloodlines are banned. Anything not mentioned here is up to individual judges.

d20 Rokugan is not allowed material.

The Dragon Magazine update for Oriental Adventures is in use.

Leadership is banned. Any material that grants you leadership without you specifically taking it should be ignored and may not be traded away for another feat or ACF. Undead Leadership and Dragon Cohort are likewise banned. Wild Cohort and Obtain Familiar are allowed. If you are not sure if a specific feat violates the 'no leadership' rule, err on the side of caution, or ask me.

However, Leadership may be taken to qualify for another feat or class (such as the Great Captain feat or Legendary Leader prestige class), though a character still doesn't get its usual benefit in those cases. This is to allow characters to access unproblematic material that'd otherwise be made unavailable because of the Leadership ban.

On the subject of messaging the chair (me), a few guidelines:
- I am not here to give critiques on your build or guess how the judges might score it!
- For entries, please keep the entry to no more than 2 message, if at all possible.
- For entries, don't expect me to search through your entry and edit in or out material. Entries should be sent to me complete - if there is a later revision, re-submit the full build. PLEASE DON'T INCLUDE TEXT IN YOUR SUBMISSION YOU WANT ME TO EDIT OUT FOR THE POST - SUBMIT IT TO ME EXACTLY HOW I WILL POST THE FINISHED PRODUCT.
- Please make sure the name of your entry is clearly present in the message.

https://www.incimages.com/uploaded_files/image/970x450/dr-evil-mini-me-1940x900_35484.jpg


Everyone, have fun!

ADDITIONAL:

after reviewing it all, i'll make 2 stipulations:

1. You may use the minion/lackey rules to build your character, but you are restricted to 1 minion, however you must take either leadership, undead leadership, or thrallherd as well

-OR-

2. you can ignore the minion/lackey rules and build your cohort(s) per the usual rules to leadership et al so that CR=ECL for the purposes of determining the lvl at which a cohort(s) can be gained, and the rate/amount at which they level along with you.

[Falontani]

This is what I've been waiting for! Although I'm mostly surprised that it's a villainous competition build and not an iron chef or jyw.
Can you clarify just how much of a match your races have to be? Like can a stoutheart Halfling recruit a jungle Halfling, a ghast recruit a ghoul, a dread wraith recruit a wraith? A longhorn minotaur recruit a krynn minotaur? Just as random examples.

I'd like to bring up the Minion and Lackey rules from exemplars of evil, which is very akin to leadership, but might mesh better with this competition.

Do you want two build writeups, or..?

Sorry in advance for asking for clarification (like we do every round)

[ben-zayb]

1. On the topic of being under the same race, any confirmation if it is within the spirit of the round to also having the same racial HD progression?

2. How about having the same templates?

3. Must Leadership be taken at the soonest possible level?

[AvatarVecna]

I'm getting some ideas, but I'l need to see how certain things work out...

[MisterKaws]

So let me see if I understood your clarification section: Leadership and Undead Leadership are allowed, and both fulfill the requirement for the round, but Dragon Cohort is still forbidden? And all other cohorts, as normal, are separate from Leadership?

Also, does Thrallherd qualify for the requirements, or not?

And +1 to the race specificity question.

[Thurbane]

Very interesting. I'd like to try and get one in this round...


1. On the topic of being under the same race, any confirmation if it is within the spirit of the round to also having the same racial HD progression?

Awaiting answer from the chair, but since it's not specified, I'd day safe to assume no.


2. How about having the same templates?

Interesting, but again not specified.


3. Must Leadership be taken at the soonest possible level?

Awaiting answer from the chair, but since it's not specified, I'd day safe to assume no.

...it sometimes feels like people want to impose extra restrictions on themselves! :smalltongue:

[AvatarVecna]

Very interesting. I'd like to try and get one in this round...



Awaiting answer from the chair, but since it's not specified, I'd day safe to assume no.



Interesting, but again not specified.



Awaiting answer from the chair, but since it's not specified, I'd day safe to assume no.

...it sometimes feels like people want to impose extra restrictions on themselves! :smalltongue:

Last round has contestants losing points over a difference.of interpretation that would've been very mich fixed one way or the other if edge cases like this had been specified upfront by the chair, or had been questioned by the participants. These questions are.doing what we should've done more last round (and we still did it plenty).

[jdizzlean]

Race wise:

i think variants of the same base race are fine, so for example if you wanted to be a human, you could use a neanderthal as your cohort.

as for templates, if it is a template that has to be taken at creation, then you must both have it, if it can be taken later, you can choose whether you both have it or not. racial progression can be different HD wise, as long as the races are the same per the above example

you could use the minion/lackey stuff if you wanted to, but 1) it doesn't require a feat expenditure like leadership does, and 2)it is based off CR+CHA, making it highly abusable. so for this round, you still must take leadership, what you do w/ it from there is up to you, and your ability to convince the judge/s that it fits the theme..

Your build write up should include an explanation of your cohort, and how you work together. the level of detail is up to you

when you take leadership, and when you gain your cohort is up to you to build however you'd like

thrallherd would qualify, however you still must take (and therefor get no benefit of) the leadership feat

[MisterKaws]

Race wise:

i think variants of the same base race are fine, so for example if you wanted to be a human, you could use a neanderthal as your cohort.

as for templates, if it is a template that has to be taken at creation, then you must both have it, if it can be taken later, you can choose whether you both have it or not. racial progression can be different HD wise, as long as the races are the same per the above example

What about variable templates? For example: Half-Dragon, D&D Archives' revised Half-Fiend, Lycanthrope, and many others that let you choose a specific major variation on the template?

[jdizzlean]

What about variable templates? For example: Half-Dragon, D&D Archives' revised Half-Fiend, Lycanthrope, and many others that let you choose a specific major variation on the template?

sorry, i meant to comment on that.

if it's something that requires a specific choice, like the color of dragon for example, then you both must be that specific choice, etc.
unless of course it is something that can be acquired after creation/birth, in which case of course you have carte blanche as that ties in w/ the other limitations/clarifications

[NontheistCleric]

Just to confirm, Undead Leadership is okay? I don't think we got a definite answer on that one.


i think variants of the same base race are fine, so for example if you wanted to be a human, you could use a neanderthal as your cohort.

What about the other way around, if we had a neanderthal villain with a human cohort?


you could use the minion/lackey stuff if you wanted to, but 1) it doesn't require a feat expenditure like leadership does, and 2)it is based off CR+CHA, making it highly abusable. so for this round, you still must take leadership, what you do w/ it from there is up to you, and your ability to convince the judge/s that it fits the theme..

So we can use include minions and lackeys as part of the build if we want? Would they be subject to the same race and alignment requirements as the cohort?

[jdizzlean]

the usual restriction on undead leadership is struck out in the second post, meaning that the usual restriction is not in play.

yes, you could go either way on races, as human vs neanderthal is the same thing, simply a variant of each other.

yes, you could include lackeys and minions, or more likely only lackeys, however its more of a flavor ingredient, and not a power one if you did, otherwise you may run into the same issue as last time where the judge may ding you for going against the spirit of the round (cohort only, no peons.) but if you wish to include it, by all means have at it.

[Empyreal Dragon]

Would builds with multiple cohorts be a violation?

[jdizzlean]

i suppose if you can find a way to make that work w/in the restrictions set forth, more power to you (see what i did there :P )

[3SecondCultist]

I have an idea that I think will be a lot of fun this time!

Should we also assume that we are building our cohorts with an elite array?

[jdizzlean]

sure, why not....

[GrayDeath]

Ineresting go this round.

I think I have some Ideas, now lets see if I can find the time this time (as Mini Me sadly runs of my Action economy :P )-

[Sian]

got a Silly Idea(tm) ...

EDIT:

You know, i got a question

If i pick a race that isn't a legal Player Race (but given that we're working with CR, is perfectly valid), how do i calculate my Leadership Score (given that it's off ECL) and which level my Cohorts can advance to (again, ECL)

[GrayDeath]

Since Leadership so far has always been banned, I dont think it came up yet.

I would probably siply go by CR=ECL for that calculation, to avoid additional Humbug.

[NontheistCleric]

You know, i got a question

If i pick a race that isn't a legal Player Race (but given that we're working with CR, is perfectly valid), how do i calculate my Leadership Score (given that it's off ECL) and which level my Cohorts can advance to (again, ECL)


Since Leadership so far has always been banned, I dont think it came up yet.

I would probably siply go by CR=ECL for that calculation, to avoid additional Humbug.

CR = ECL has absolutely no basis in RAW. There's no call for simply making things up, unless one happens to be the Chairman.

The Leadership score is, in fact, not calculated based on ECL but rather character level, and character level also determines what level a cohort may advance to, as per:


If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than the associated PC’s character level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed attain the next level.

and


Several factors can affect a character’s Leadership score, causing it to vary from the base score (character level + Cha modifier).

So there's no problem calculating either Leadership Score or Cohort Level even with a non-playable race, according to the rules.

However, since XP is in any case governed by ECL, it would seem that the cohort's level is still bounded by ECL.

Would the cohort, then, have to be of a playable race (or one with a (cohort) LA)? That's what I'm unsure of. Anyone with an answer?

[MisterKaws]

CR = ECL has absolutely no basis in RAW. There's no call for simply making things up, unless one happens to be the Chairman.

The Leadership score is, in fact, not calculated based on ECL but rather character level, and character level also determines what level a cohort may advance to, as per:



and



So there's no problem calculating either Leadership Score or Cohort Level even with a non-playable race, according to the rules.

However, since XP is in any case governed by ECL, it would seem that the cohort's level is still bounded by ECL.

Would the cohort, then, have to be of a playable race (or one with a (cohort) LA)? That's what I'm unsure of. Anyone with an answer?

I'd like an official chairman ruling on this. Seems like either way could give interesting interactions. Might make some build ideas illegal or legal depending on which way it goes.

[NontheistCleric]

Okay, I've just posed this question in the Simple RAW thread. Hopefully that will increase our chances of an official answer.

Though a Chairman ruling would still be appreciated, since his word is, of course, supreme.

[jdizzlean]

i'm not ignoring it, i just need to carve some time out to really go over it. post your raw ruling here. i'm inclined to simply state that cr=cl for the purposes of what lvl cohort you can have, but i want to go over all the material.

[AvatarVecna]

i'm not ignoring it, i just need to carve some time out to really go over it. post your raw ruling here. i'm inclined to simply state that cr=cl for the purposes of what lvl cohort you can have, but i want to go over all the material.

That ruling would be a definite downgrade from RAW, but I'm inclined to agree that it be implemented because the alternative is hot nonsense that shifts the contest away from "figure out how to make two builds that work together" into "how hard can I abuse this exploit to circumvent the contest rules without technically breaking them". Or at least, it does for me, since the build I'm halfway through making is basically nothing but that.

[GrayDeath]

That ruling would be a definite downgrade from RAW, but I'm inclined to agree that it be implemented because the alternative is hot nonsense that shifts the contest away from "figure out how to make two builds that work together" into "how hard can I abuse this exploit to circumvent the contest rules without technically breaking them". Or at least, it does for me, since the build I'm halfway through making is basically nothing but that.

WHich is why I suggested it as a possiblity above, but was shot down" as not being called for, due to me not being the chair. ^^

Overall, as most of the time, I tend to go for the solution which is the easiest to implement without oening up further Humbug (unless of course said Humbug is the point^^).

Ah well, lets see if there is something RAWish to be found.

[AvatarVecna]

WHich is why I suggested it as a possiblity above, but was shot down" as not being called for, due to me not being the chair. ^^

Overall, as most of the time, I tend to go for the solution which is the easiest to implement without oening up further Humbug (unless of course said Humbug is the point^^).

Ah well, lets see if there is something RAWish to be found.

I doubt the humbug nonsense is the point. If the contest is meant to be a reflection of how a DM would approach building a villain for the contest concept, they wouldn't take Leadership they'd just build two NPCs that work well with each other; and, more to the point, the particular hot nonsense is less "how a DM would build this" and more "exploiting the letter of the rules in both Leadership and the Contest Rules to achieve something that flagrantly violate the intentions of the contest rules". :smalltongue:

[Thurbane]

I'd like an official chairman ruling on this. Seems like either way could give interesting interactions. Might make some build ideas illegal or legal depending on which way it goes.

Obviously the chairman has final say, but the simplest way may be to calculate ECL treating LA - as LA +0. So for LA - creatures, ECL = RHD + class levels.

[NontheistCleric]

i'm not ignoring it, i just need to carve some time out to really go over it. post your raw ruling here. i'm inclined to simply state that cr=cl for the purposes of what lvl cohort you can have, but i want to go over all the material.


That ruling would be a definite downgrade from RAW

Depends on whether the Chairman meant CR=CL for determining the level the cohort level is reduced from, or the cohort's level itself, which I find more likely given that such a solution would address the question of 'can LA: - creatures be cohorts' and that the previous issue of how to calculate the level the cohort level is reduced from was already resolved.


Obviously the chairman has final say, but the simplest way may be to calculate ECL treating LA - as LA +0. So for LA - creatures, ECL = RHD + class levels.

I mean, this is actually how it works. ECL is just HD+LA, so absent LA ECL is simply equal to HD, although such a character would not be PC-legal.

All that being said, the reply from the RAW thread has come back. It is as follows:


Cohorts have to be within a particular level range. That requires an ECL. Can't have a level less than X if you don't have a level. Also, since cohorts use xp to level up and so forth, even if you could have a cohort without an ECL, it would never be able to level up.

Of course, since we are building NPCs by CR here, XP isn't a factor in their creation anyway, but it seems to make sense. Since a PC couldn't attract a cohort incapable of gaining XP with the feat, it's only fair an NPC would not be able to.

That's leaving aside the fact that the answer seems to be conflating having LA with having an ECL, which as per


A creature's ECL is the sum of its Hit Dice (including class levels) and level adjustment.

is not true, as without LA the ECL would still be the sum of the HD themselves, but that isn't really relevant to the issue at hand anyway.

[MisterKaws]

Well, if we houserule it to be CR-based it'll be more balanced, though it'd lose a lot on the creativity department from culling all the possible abuses synergies.

[NontheistCleric]

Well, if we houserule it to be CR-based it'll be more balanced, though it'd lose a lot on the creativity department from culling all the possible abuses synergies.

Well, that depends. The Chairman didn't specify if he was proposing to make the 'leader' level or the cohort level functionally equal to CR. If the former, yes, it would be more balanced, or at least less powerful, but if the latter, it would instead allow for more power.

However, I would personally advocate against houseruling for 'balance', especially now that we've had a answer which is probably as close to RAW as we're going to get. We come here to make villains using the 3.5 system, and if we're just going to houserule when it isn't even needed, is that really what we'd be doing? An outright ban is a somewhat different story, as it's not actually changing the rules, just declining to use some parts of them, and this competition has had one on Leadership for reasons I'm sure we would all agree are valid.

But this round, the Leadership ban has been lifted. If the Chairman had just wanted us to make two villains, he could have said so in the restrictions, with no reference to Leadership, but that isn't what he did. This round is the Leadership round, a chance to use this feat in this competition we may never have again, and if we're not going to use Leadership, Undead Leadership and Thrallherd and all the other similar abilities which are usually banned in their full, 3.5 RAW glory, with every little awkward and designer-unintended rules facet that may help or hinder our builds in strange ways, what's the point?

[Falontani]

My opinion and intent by introducing the Minion/lackey rules from Exemplars of Evil was that they are intended for monsters/villains and are entirely based on cr already. I would highly suggest that to get access to them in this competition they must still take leadership, undead leadership, or thrallherd as usual.



A major villain should have one to three minions. A minor villain usually has no minions, but if you wish, you can give her one. A minion’s Challenge Rating should equal the villain’s Challenge Rating minus 2. which is very close to leadership's

The character can attract a cohort of up to this level. Regardless of a character’s Leadership score, he can only recruit a cohort who is two or more levels lower than himself. The cohort should be equipped with gear appropriate for its level. A character can try to attract a cohort of a particular race, class, and alignment. The cohort’s alignment may not be opposed to the leader’s alignment on either the law-vs-chaos or good-vs-evil axis, and the leader takes a Leadership penalty if he recruits a cohort of an alignment different from his own.

Since we are villains and the competition is about having a powerful creature who is the same race as you the Minion rules work better for our need. To create a level playing field I'd limit it to one minion and still require one of the ways to gain access to a cohort.

[Sian]

Yeah, looking at it Minion/Lackeys (Page 29-30 in Exemplars of Evil) are very much a copy of Cohort/Followers, with ever so slightly different implications in their rules, including that the Minions are much more autonomous than Cohorts tend to be, and there's even a blurb about how it interacts with Leadership and how it's more or less explicitly made as to be the 'evil' mirror of the Heroic Leadership

[NontheistCleric]

Since we are villains and the competition is about having a powerful creature who is the same race as you the Minion rules work better for our need. To create a level playing field I'd limit it to one minion and still require one of the ways to gain access to a cohort.

Though, if all we want is a level playing field, might as well simply have the one minion limit and not bother with Leadership at all, as the Minion/Lackey system is not related to it anyway.

[AvatarVecna]

Though, if all we want is a level playing field, might as well simply have the one minion limit and not bother with Leadership at all, as the Minion/Lackey system is not related to it anyway.

This isn't the worst idea. If a DM wants a second prinary villain as a lieutenant to the BBEG, they don't take Leadership, they just make a second NPC and save the feat.

[jdizzlean]

okay,

after reviewing it all, i'll make 2 stipulations:

1. You may use the minion/lackey rules to build your character, but you are restricted to 1 minion, however you must take either leadership, undead leadership, or thrallherd as well

-OR-

2. you can ignore the minion/lackey rules and build your cohort(s) per the usual rules to leadership et al so that CR=ECL for the purposes of determining the lvl at which a cohort(s) can be gained, and the rate/amount at which they level along with you.

[MisterKaws]

okay,

after reviewing it all, i'll make 2 stipulations:

1. You may use the minion/lackey rules to build your character, but you are restricted to 1 minion, however you must take either leadership, undead leadership, or thrallherd as well

-OR-

2. you can ignore the minion/lackey rules and build your cohort(s) per the usual rules to leadership et al so that CR=ECL for the purposes of determining the lvl at which a cohort(s) can be gained, and the rate/amount at which they level along with you.

Sad, my entry just died a bit.

[NontheistCleric]

Sad, my entry just died a bit.

Wait, let's not be hasty. Considering the considerable confusion there has been so far over whether ECL or CL is what is being used for both the cohort's level, the 'leader' level, and relatedly whether the CR=ECL ruling by the Chairman is applicable to either or both (although it would, referring to RAW, seem only to apply to the cohort level, the only one governed by ECL in the RAW), I think a little more clarification is in order.


2. you can ignore the minion/lackey rules and build your cohort(s) per the usual rules to leadership et al so that CR=ECL for the purposes of determining the lvl at which a cohort(s) can be gained, and the rate/amount at which they level along with you.

So, just to clarify, this means that the cohort progression is done using CR=ECL, and CR=ECL is not used for determining the 'leader' level which is usually based on CL (not ECL)? Or is it that this operation is taking place, but the 'leader' level is also set to being based on CR? Or, although the reference to ECL would seem to preclude it, is this modification only being directly applied to the 'leader' level?

Because there's been some confusion between whether it's CL or ECL that determines the 'leader' level (and thus whether your ruling would be relevant) (although by RAW it is CL, which your ruling would seem not to affect) and thus whether this ruling of yours concerns the level of the cohort itself or the 'leader' level, or both, or even only the 'leader' level.

[AvatarVecna]

Rather than a generic question that can lead to further obfuscation: if I'm a CR 20 creature with 30 HD/no LA, what level is my cohort, "CR 18" or "HD 28?

[NontheistCleric]

Rather than a generic question that can lead to further obfuscation: if I'm a CR 20 creature with 30 HD/no LA, what level is my cohort, "CR 18" or "HD 28?

Actually, this would lead to further obsfucation.

What should be asked is: If I'm a CR 20 creature with 30 HD (LA is irrelevant as it features neither in the RAW CL (character level) calculation for 'leader' level nor this CR one), is my cohort CR 18 because I'm CR 20, CR 28 because I'm CL 30, or ECL 18 because I'm CR 20?

[jdizzlean]

Wait, let's not be hasty. Considering the considerable confusion there has been so far over whether ECL or CL is what is being used for both the cohort's level, the 'leader' level, and relatedly whether the CR=ECL ruling by the Chairman is applicable to either or both (although it would, referring to RAW, seem only to apply to the cohort level, the only one governed by ECL in the RAW), I think a little more clarification is in order.



So, just to clarify, this means that the cohort progression is done using CR=ECL, and CR=ECL is not used for determining the 'leader' level which is usually based on CL (not ECL)? Or is it that this operation is taking place, but the 'leader' level is also set to being based on CR? Or, although the reference to ECL would seem to preclude it, is this modification only being directly applied to the 'leader' level?

Because there's been some confusion between whether it's CL or ECL that determines the 'leader' level (and thus whether your ruling would be relevant) (although by RAW it is CL, which your ruling would seem not to affect) and thus whether this ruling of yours concerns the level of the cohort itself or the 'leader' level, or both, or even only the 'leader' level.

since this competition is based off of CR, both the leader (your main entry) and the cohort(s) will be based off of CR=ECL/CL for the purposes of all the things

[NontheistCleric]

Oh, that's wonderfully clear. Thank you, Chairman.

[Thurbane]

It's kind of a shame about redacted for possible speculation.

Otherwise the cohort could have redacted for possible speculation and literally be a Mini Me. :smalltongue:

[Falontani]

It's kind of a shame about the ruling that if the main character has an inherited template, then the cohort also has to have that template.

Template and literally be a Mini Me. :smalltongue:

I'd honestly almost just delete that and do it. It would be hilarious

[NontheistCleric]

It's kind of a shame about the ruling that if the main character has an inherited template, then the cohort also has to have that template.

Otherwise the cohort could have the Dungeonbred template and literally be a Mini Me. :smalltongue:

Well, Dungeonbred isn't the only way you could pull something like this off, though I will not speculate openly.

[jdizzlean]

how's everyone doing?

as an aside, i have a crazy idea for an upcoming round, but will need to secure a judge ahead of time. if you're up to a challenge, shoot me a pm and i'll share a few details with you so you can decide whether it's something you want to attempt to judge or not!

[AvatarVecna]

how's everyone doing?

as an aside, i have a crazy idea for an upcoming round, but will need to secure a judge ahead of time. if you're up to a challenge, shoot me a pm and i'll share a few details with you so you can decide whether it's something you want to attempt to judge or not!

Judging a weird round sounds like it could be fun. I'm all ears.

[Sian]

have had to bail since my computer bailed on me :(

[GrayDeath]

Dont be too quick with that, sounded fun to me back when the last monster round went as well....and it kinda was, but also a LOT of extra work. ^^

[jdizzlean]

yay, the forums are back, and i can finally get in as well...


i suppose an extension is in order at the very least. let's go another month from now, til March 26th, midnight MST as per normal. if anyone out there is working on stuff, or if everyone has abandoned this, let me know either way.

[NontheistCleric]

Was waiting for an update on how exactly this would proceed, so yes, I for one am still building.

[Heavenblade]

I will jump in as well, the forums being down for a bit gave me some time to think

[AvatarVecna]

So...how goes progress?

[GrayDeath]

Ugh, I at least am totally out of it.

Actually forgot this was still running.


Ooops. :smallbiggrin:

[jdizzlean]

5 days left for the extension. still no entries in the box. are folks building and need more time, or should we call it a dead round and move on?

[GrayDeath]

Honestly, I had absolutely no time since I remembewred....but given we are all more or less trapped at home I think an extension sounds better than abandoning it completely.

What do you guys (and gals) think?

[Falontani]

Three of my concepts completely fell apart at the seams and discourage me from trying again

[NontheistCleric]

I'm still at it. This is a landmark round, the first explicitly calling for more than one villain to be built, and is thus a fair amount of work, not to mention the fact that many of us are likely being delayed by having coronavirus, being quarantined and tested for possible coronavirus, panicking about survival in the face of coronavirus, panicking because loved ones have coronavirus, being medical workers with increased workload because of coronavirus, and other people doing all of those things.

In any case, it might be a little premature to call a halt to things before the deadline is even up. I also agree with GrayDeath that another extension might help.

[jdizzlean]

ok,

will give it another 2 weeks from now. hopefully that is enough time to get something in. So April 11th, 6pm MST is the new deadline.

[3SecondCultist]

I have a build that I never finished that I could try to submit. It would take me some time though.

[Heavenblade]

is there any official format for the level breakdown?

[GrayDeath]

Just give the past competitions a look over and stay semi close to that. :)

[Heavenblade]

If I give a minor refluff to a class feature, with no effect at all about the mechanics, It'll just help me thematically with the villians I created...can it be penalized?

[GrayDeath]

It can.

However assuming it fits the fluff really well and, as you say, does not change anything mechanically, most judges likely wont do so.

[Heavenblade]

Ok, cool. Thank you very much.

Who else is planning to submit something?

[PoeticallyPsyco]

I keep coming up with great ideas... for the previous competition. That worked out pretty well for the Do Over round; less well with my current great idea for a Dvati sword and board fighter.

[Palanan]

Is this still happening?

Today is the last day of the second extension, not sure if this has been lost with everything else going on. Just curious as an observer.

[Heavenblade]

I submitted my character, so I really hope it's happenning! :smallsmile:

[NontheistCleric]

Doing it last minute. Hope I can make it.

[jdizzlean]

posting builds probably tmw night when I get home from work.

[jdizzlean]

1. The Thrice Raven

Flavor text

None stood in the darkness.
It was late at night, the tree haven't been burning for hours now, the flames gave away to the flames. The Impaled bodies of the cultists were scatterd on the ground, and the knights have been long gone. A raven dives from the sky, and starts pecking around the flesh of the dead, its eyes to bright and red to be natural, its wings disappearing into dark mists on their edges.
One stood in the darkness.
The amulet in the cult leader's hand begun glowin in a black light, the raven-shaped Black gem inside it vaporizing, and then slowly drifting out of the invisible holes and imperfections in the amulet, turning into a short woman, wearing a black cloak similar to that of the cultist, her cloak filled with potions and wires. She Smiles, the ritual have worked. She opens her hand slowly, and a long staff of Oak and death materializes in her hand, The obsidian blade on its tips whispering of deaths, Those that came long ago and those that will soon come again
Two stood in the darkness
From the tree itself, she emerged. A warrior clad In red and black armor, her talons leaving long scratch marks in the mud and rocks under he feet. She slowly draws out a sword and take a long breath, her sickle-like sword spinning between her fingers as she cuts a still-smoking branch out of her way
Three stood in the darkness.
The warrior looks at the spear holding woman with a slight smile on her lips. "Macha, it has been too long". Macha nods slowly, stretching each word like she is enjoying it "yes, inevitability does not promise immediacy. But it doesn't matter, for we are here" She takes a look at the raven who is now staring at them "well, mostly"
The morrigan puts an iron covered glove on Macha's shoulder "I promise, we will find the Badb. We shall be truly whole again. But for tonight, let us relish in what we have, soon, the world will know again of the us, the Inevitable."
Macha started laughing, a low croak that escaped her lips again and again until she couldn't stop it. The Morrigan joined, howling her freedom and power to the sky in an eerie harmony with the laughter of the Macha. And the Raven stared at them, its beak stretching back into something almost resembling a horrifying smile, promising the inevitable.
One stands in the darkness.

Background

The Morrigan, Macha and the Badb used to be the three personifications of all things inevitable – fat, war, and death. Together they created one deity strong enough to hold that heavy burden of power on their shoulders. They swore their oaths to watch only, to never intervene.
These oaths were broken when one of them disappeared. Death, Badb, was almost gone. Reduced to nothing by meddling humans who kept keeping people away from the ebony claws of death, she got weaker and weaker, losing almost all of her powers and sanity.
The two sisters implored the other deities to let them intervene, so they could save their sister. But the high pantheon refused, and so they were left for their own devices. The Morrigan was the first to go down to the realms of mortals, reborn in a body that held only a fragment of her former power.
She swore an oath to make mortals fear death again, to make them fear the inevitable again, so her sister, her other self, could be brought back to life. In the beginning Macha was reluctant to join her. But after Morrigan found the Badb hiding in some remote forest and convinced her to manifest for the first time in years, Macha was convinced. She also manifested a body.

And so the pair of sisters started wandering the world, war and fate travelling the realms, opposing all those who dared defying death – weather they be undead, clerics who revived their god's pawns, or alchemists whose experiments took them a little bit too far.
Many times the gods, the heroes, and even villains tried to lock them down, destroy them, throwing them into other planes of existence. But being what they are, inevitable, they could never be stopped for long. Not truly.
And that is how things are. The pair of sisters keep trying to defeat the mortal defiance against death, fighting with all their might so they could revive their own third self, bringing mind anda strength back into the hollowed raven that travels with them as they scoure the earth, seeking revenge for what has been done to them.
Only days will tell if they succeed, but is it even really possible to resist something that is….Inevitable


Short descriptions

Morrigan - The embodiemnt of fate. a Warrior who snatches her enemies from the ground and throws them into their inevitable deaths, uses curses and manipulation of luck and fate in order to dominate the battlefield and ensure those she battle will not escape her sister's traps.
Macha - the emobidemnt of war. Uses tactics and wits in order to create deadly tactics which bring her enemies into lose-lose situations, combining traps and spells so she could deliver death to her adversaries in quick strikes, and disappear into the night.
Badb - The morrigan's dark companion, refluffed as a large raven. Used to be sentient and powerful, now she is just an ethereal bird with a speck of her former power, which lets her impose sadness and grief on whoever stands by her



Morrigan - Fate
Basics

Raptoran Hexblade 5/Stormtalon 1/Heblade 14
LE
Type/Subtype
Elite array:15 (STR), 14 (Con), 13 (Cha), 12 (dex), 10 (wis), 8 (int)
Racial Adjustments: None
HD Adjustments: +3 Cha, +2 Str,
Ability scores (Mod): Str:17 (+3), Dex:12 (+1), Con:14 (+2), Int:10 (0), Wis:8 (-1), Cha: 16 (+3)

Character build


CR
Level
BaB
Fort
Ref
Will
Skills
Feats
Special



1
1
0
0
2
Concentration 1, Knowledge (Arcana) 1
Dodge
Hexblade's curse 1/day, Wing aided movement, gliding, Pact with the wind lords, uneering direction, Low-light vision, weapon familiarity,+2 to Jump and Spot checks



2
2
0
0
3
3
Concentration 2, Knowledge (Arcana) 2
Arcane resistance



3
3
1
1
3
Concentration 3, Knowledge (Arcana) 3
Mobility
Mettle



4
4
1
1
4
Concentration 4, Knowledge (Arcana) 4

Dark companion (Refluffed as large raven instead of large panther), spellcasting



5
5
3
1
4
Concentration 5, Knowledge (Arcana) 5
Combat casting
Bonus feat, Hexblade's curse 2/day, Flight, diving attack



6
6
3
1
4
Concentration 6, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 1
Leadership
Foot talons (1d6)



7
7
4
2
5
Concentration 7, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 2





8
8
4
2
5
Concentration 8, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 3

Greater hexblade's curse (-4)



9
9
4
2
6
Concentration 9, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 4
Snatch




10
10
5
3
6
Concentration 10, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 5

Hexblade's curse 3/day,Flight (Improvement)



11
11
5
3
7
Concentration 11, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 6
Spell penetration
Bonus feat (spell penetration)



12
12
5
3
7
Concentration 12, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 7
Spring attack




13
13
6
4
8
Concentration 13, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 8

Aura of unluck 1/day



14
14
6
4
8
Concentration 14, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 9

Hexblade's curse 4/day



15
15
6
4
9
Concentration 15, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 10
Bounding assault




16
16
7
5
9
Concentration 16, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 11
G spell penetration
Bonus feat (greater spell penetration)



17
17
7
5
10
Concentration 17, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 12

Aura of unluck 2/day



18
18
7
5
10
Concentration 18, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 13
Rapid blitz
Hexblade's curse 5/day


19
19
8
6
11

Concentration 19, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 14





20
20
8
6
11
Concentration 20, Knowledge (Arcana) 5 , Tumble 15

Dire hexblade's curse (-6)



Spell list

Lvl 1. Tasha's hideous laughter, Charm person, expeditious retreat, Backbiter, distract assailant
Lvl 2. Alter self, Mirror image, Pyrotechniques, Invisibility, Glitterdust
Lvl 3. Hound of doom, slow, Vampiric touch, charm monster, Dispel magic
Lvl 4. Enervation, Solid fog, Finger of agony, Polymorph


Macha-War
Basics
Raptoran Factotum 8/Combat trapsmith 5/Mind bender 1/Exemplar 1/Uncanny trickster 3/
LE
Elite array:15 (Int), 14 (Strength), 13 (Dex), 12 (Wis), 10 (Con), 8 (Cha)
Racial Adjustments: None
HD Adjustments: +3 int, +1 dex
Ability scores (Mod): Str:14 (+2), Dex:14 (+2), Con:10 (+0), Int:18 (+4), Wis:12 (+1), Cha: 10 (+0)
Character build


CR
Level
BaB
Fort
Ref
Will
Skills
Feats
Special



1
0
0
2
0
Knowledge (religion) 4, Craft (trapmaking) 1, Craft (alchemy) 1, Spellcraft 1, Concentration 1
Font of inspiration
Wing aided movement, gliding, Pact with the wind lords, uneering direction, Low-light vision, weapon familiarity,+2 to Jump and Spot checks , Inspiration, Cunning insight, Cunning knowledge, Trapfinding



2
1
0
3
0

Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 2, Craft (Trapmaking) 2, Jump 3, Skill trick: Collector of stories, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1
Arcane dilettante,



3
2
1
3
1
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 3, Craft (Trapmaking) 3, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 2
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper
Font of inspiration
Brains over brawn, Cunning defense



4
3
1
4
1

Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 4, Craft (Trapmaking) 4, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 4
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper
Cunning strike



5
3
1
4
1
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 8, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 8
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting

Flight, Opportunistic piety



6
4
2
5
2
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 9, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 9, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 1
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting
Flyby attack




7
5
2
5
2
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 10, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 10, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 8
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting





8
6/1
2
6
2
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 11, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 11, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 11, Search 6
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting

Cunning surge



9
6/1
4
8
2
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 12, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 12, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 11, search 11
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting, Skill trick: Spot the weak point
Improved initiative
Trap sense +1, Combat trappings



10
7/2
5
9
2
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 13, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 13, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 13, search 13, bluff 3
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting, Skill trick: Spot the weak point

Skill focus (trapmaking)



11

8/3
5
9
3
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 14, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 14, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 13, search 14, bluuf 4, intimidate 4, sense motive 1
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting, Skill trick: Spot the weak point
Trap sense +2



12
9/4
6
10
3
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 15, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 14, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 15, search 15, bluff 4, intimidate 4, sense motive 4, tumble 2
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting, Skill trick: Spot the weak point
Death blow
Improvised materials



13
9/4
6
10
3
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 16, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 16, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 16, search 16, bluff 4, intimidate 4, sense motive 4, tumble 5
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting, Skill trick: Spot the weak point

Expert trapstter, trap sense +3



14
9/4
8
10
5
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 17, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 14, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 17, search 17, bluff 4, intimidate 4, sense motive 4, tumble 3
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting, Skill trick: Spot the weak point Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 15, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 14, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 15, search 15, bluff 4, intimidate 4, sense motive 4, tumble 6
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting, Skill trick: Spot the weak point

Telepathy



15
9/4
8
10
7
] Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 18, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 14, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 18, search 18, bluff 6, intimidate 6, sense motive 6, tumble 6
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting, Skill trick: Spot the weak point Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 15,

Mindsight
Skill artistry, skill mastery



16
9/4
8
12
7
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 19, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 14, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 19, search 19, bluff 8, intimidate 8, sense motive 8, tumble 7
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting, Skill trick: Spot the weak point, Skill trick: Never outnumbered


Bonus trick, favored trick (Spot the weak point)



17
10/5
8
13
7
] Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 20, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 14, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 20, search 20, bluff 8, intimidate 10, sense motive 8, tumble 12
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting, Skill trick: Spot the weak point, Skill trick: Never outnumbered, Skill trick: Acrpbatic backstab


Bonus trick, favored trick (Acrobatic backstab), +1 former class level(Combat trapsmith)



18
11/6/1
9
13
8
Knowledge (religion) 5, Craft (alchemy) 5, Craft (Trapmaking) 21, Jump 5, Concentraion 1, Spellcraft 1, sleight of hands 5, spot 14, Diplomacy 6, Disable device 21, search 21, bluff 8, intimidate 10, sense motive 8, tumble 19
Skill trick: Collector of stories, Skill trick: Extreme leaper, Skill trick: Conceal spellcasting, Skill trick: Spot the weak point, Skill trick: Never outnumbered, Skill trick: Acrpbatic backstab

Font of inspiration
Bonus trick, favored trick (Collector of stories), +1 former class level (Combat trapsmith)



Traps per level:
Lvl 1: Glitterburst, Enfeebler
Lvl 2: Equalizer
Lvl 3: Spiderweb
Lvl 4: Sleeper
Lvl 5: Stinkburst
Save DC: 20

Spell like ability repertoire:

Max spell level – 3
3 spells chosen per day
Spells vary each day. The Macha nostly takes debuff spells she can cast from range, the greater invisibility spell in order to maneuver the battlefield unseen and unharmed, or utility spells that will help her in social interaction (Glibness, alter self) so she could trick enemies into walking straight to one of the duo's traps.


Build snapshots
Sweet spot – Level 13

At level 13, the duo gets everything they need to function optimally. Every ability added after that boosts their functionality, allows them to interact in more ways with each other's abilities, and do a better job at what they already do.
At that level the Macha got the first real deadly combo going on – The Sleeper trap as a standard action, in conjunction with the flyby attack feat and the death blow feat. Meanwhile, the Morrigan got spring attack which she can now use in conjunction with snatch. That allows them to deliver deadly strikes against enemies in order to finish them as fast as possible.
In that combo, the Macha begins first (due to better initative because of Imp init.), uses flyby attack to dive, lay down a sleeper trap, and go back up to safety. Later in the round the Morrigan dives into battle from above, uses snatch on the enemy in conjunction with hexblades curse, and moves the Badb into position near the sleeper trap. The Morrigan uses spring attack in order to keep moving after the attack, fly above the trap and drop the grappled creature as a free action. At that point, the debuffed creature is much more likely to fall asleep. If it does, The Macha will go back down again next turn, coup de gracing the sleeping target using the death blow in conjunction with the flyby attack feat. If that doesn't work, the duo keep their distance, keep laying down traps (possibly multiple during a turn using factotum's 8th level ability) and the Morrigan keeps debuffing from afar and throwing the enemy back into the traps if enough Debuffs hit.
The morrigan is just beginning to get real grasp on 3rd level spells which further boosts debuffing powers, and the Macha is finished with the core parts of the build. Anythign beyond that level is a boost that while certinely welcome, isn't nessecary at all.

CR 20

At that level, the Macha's ability to put down multiple traps per turn thanks to inspiration points became invaluable, since now Morrigan can snatch three people per turn and drop them into separate traps, possibly even lairing them on each other's area (for example stink cloud with the spiderweb trap in its area in order to preven victims dropped into it move out easily).Besides creating an area of deadly Debuffs, the ability to create multiple sleeper traps at the beginning of combat, with the ability to grab multiple opponnets during that time and throwing them on the traps, greatly increases the chance that the Macha could land a killing blow early.
The Morrigan's Debuffs just got stronger around that level, as well as her spells. and the Macha's special trick bag allows her to deliver her Coup de graces in a way that makes it almost a sure thing she will hit, and kets her see through the stinky fog she creates in order to target enemies to coup de grace with a reach weapon.
They both work as a team now, throwing death on their enemies from above and returning to the safety of the sky before anyone can react.



Usage in the game

The three sisters are unique since they can either be completely opposed to the party, or work with them without hesitation. As once-deities, the petty morals of humans do not interest them, they are only interested in ensuring the inevitability of death. If the characters try to preserve someone's life beyond what it was supposed to live, ressureact a friend, or even save someone from a plague. they will face the full wrath of the sisters.
If they try to stop an undead, however, the players could find the thrice raven as powerful, if uncaring and cruel, allies.
When they decided someone disrupts the balance, he gets no warning. They start stalking him, waiting for the right moment, and then they strike from above, hoping for a quick execution. If the target overpowers them they will run away without hesitation, staying out of sight and waiting for the next opportunity. And they'll do it again, and again, and again, until they get the upper hand.

[jdizzlean]

2. The Ulmallab Inquisition


The Ulmallab Inquisition


Inquisition (3-5 Mind Flayers)

Ulzecorian
Chaotic Evil Bone Psionic Mind Flayer of Legacy Egoist 2/Thrallherd 10

and

Abstersine
Chaotic Evil Psionic Mind Flayer of Legacy Kineticist 1/Anarchic Initiate 10

and

Malinordell
Chaotic Evil Psionic Mind Flayer of Legacy and Xvim Egoist 1/Warblade 5




Ulzecorian


Ability
Array
Racial
Bone Creature
12 HD
16 HD
20 HD
Prodigy of Charisma
Final


Str
10
+2
-
-
-
-
-
12


Dex
12
+4
+4
-
-
-
-
20


Con
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-


Int
15
+8
-
+1
-
-
-
24


Wis
13
+6
-
-
-
-
-
19


Cha
14
+6
-
-
+1
+1
+2
24



Abstersine


Ability
Array
Racial
12 HD
16 HD
Prodigy of Intelligence
Final


Str
8
+2
-
-
-
10


Dex
13
+4
-
+1
-
18


Con
14
+2
-
-
-
16


Int
15
+8
+1
-
+2
26


Wis
10
+6
-
-
-
16


Cha
12
+6
-
-
-
18



Malinordell


Ability
Array
Racial
Beast of Xvim
12 HD
16 HD
20 HD
24 HD
28 HD
Prodigy of Strength
Final


Str
15
+2
-
+1
+1
+1
+1
+1
+2
24


Dex
13
+4
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
17


Con
14
+2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
16


Int
8
+8
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
16


Wis
12
+6
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
18


Cha
10
+6
+4
-
-
-
-
-
-
20



Ulzecorian

CR
Advancement
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skill Ranks
Feats
Features


8
Aberration (8 HD)
+6
+2
+2
+6
Move Silently 11, Hide 11, Concentration 11, Bluff 11, Diplomacy 11, Sense Motive 11, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Disguise 11, Psicraft 2
Inquisitor, Leadership, Darkstalker
Mind blast, psionics, improved grab, extract, Spell resistance 25, telepathy 100 ft, Legacy Ability (Empower Power)


9
Thrallherd
+6
+2
+2
+8
Move Silently 12, Hide 12, Concentration 12, Bluff 12, Diplomacy 12, Sense Motive 12, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Disguise 11, Psicraft 4
Guerilla Warrior
Thrallherd (Thrall: Abstersine)


10
Egoist
+6
+2
+2
+10
Move Silently 13, Hide 13, Concentration 13, Bluff 12, Diplomacy 12, Sense Motive 12, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Disguise 11, Psicraft 4, Balance 5
-
Minor Change Shape, discipline


11
Thrallherd
+7
+2
+2
+11
Move Silently 14, Hide 14, Concentration 14, Bluff 14, Diplomacy 14, Sense Motive 13, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Disguise 11, Psicraft 4, Balance 5
-
Legacy Ability (Blur)


12
Thrallherd
+7
+3
+3
+11
Move Silently 15, Hide 15, Concentration 15, Bluff 15, Diplomacy 15, Sense Motive 15, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Disguise 11, Psicraft 4, Balance 5, Autohypnosis 2
Practiced Manifester (Egoist)
Psionic Charm


13
Thrallherd
+8
+3
+3
+12
Move Silently 16, Hide 16, Concentration 16, Bluff 16, Diplomacy 16, Sense Motive 16, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Disguise 11, Psicraft 4, Balance 5, Autohypnosis 5
-
-


14
Thrallherd
+8
+3
+3
+12
Move Silently 17, Hide 17, Concentration 17, Bluff 17, Diplomacy 17, Sense Motive 17, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Disguise 11, Psicraft 4, Balance 5, Autohypnosis 8
-
Psionic Dominate


15
Thrallherd
+9
+4
+4
+13
Move Silently 18, Hide 18, Concentration 18, Bluff 18, Diplomacy 18, Sense Motive 18, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Disguise 11, Psicraft 4, Balance 5, Autohypnosis 11
Metamorphic Transfer
-


16
Thrallherd
+9
+4
+4
+13
Move Silently 19, Hide 19, Concentration 19, Bluff 19, Diplomacy 19, Sense Motive 19, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Disguise 11, Psicraft 4, Balance 5, Autohypnosis 14
-
Greater Dominate


17
Thrallherd
+10
+4
+4
+14
Move Silently 20, Hide 20, Concentration 20, Bluff 20, Diplomacy 20, Sense Motive 20, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Disguise 11, Psicraft 4, Balance 5, Autohypnosis 17
-
Legacy Ability (Time Stop)


18
Thrallherd
+10
+5
+5
+14
Move Silently 21, Hide 21, Concentration 21, Bluff 21, Diplomacy 21, Sense Motive 21, Knowledge (Psionics) 8, Disguise 11, Psicraft 4, Balance 5, Autohypnosis 20
Overchannel
Superior Dominate


19
Thrallherd
+11
+5
+5
+15
Move Silently 22, Hide 22, Concentration 22, Bluff 22, Diplomacy 22, Sense Motive 22, Knowledge (Psionics) 9, Disguise 11, Psicraft 4, Balance 5, Autohypnosis 22
-
Twofold Master (Second Thrall: Malinordell), Lifemate (Abstersine)


20
Egoist
+12
+5
+5
+16
Move Silently 21, Hide 21, Concentration 21, Bluff 21, Diplomacy 21, Sense Motive 21, Knowledge (Psionics) 9, Disguise 12, Psicraft 4, Balance 5, Autohypnosis 21
-
-



Powers Known

Level 1: Psionic Charm, Mindlink, Detect Psionics, Entangling Ectoplasm, Vigor

Level 2: Psionic Sugggestion, Control Sound, Damp Power, Amethyst Burst

Level 3: Body Adjustment, Time Hop, Touchsight, Dispel Psionics

Level 4: Metamorphosis, Schism, Psionic Divination, Psionic Dominate, Psionic Freedom of Movement

Level 5: Psionic Plane Shift, Psionic Major Creation, Psionic Revivify

Level 6: Psionic Restoration, Psionic Contingency, Temporal Acceleration

Level 7: Fission, Personal Mind Blank, Psionic Moment of Prescience

Level 8: Fusion, Psionic Greater Teleport, True Metabolism

Level 9: Greater Metamorphosis, Reality Revision, Assimilate, Stygian Conflagration

Abstersine

CR
Advancement
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skill Ranks
Feats
Features


8
Aberration (8 HD)
+6
+2
+2
+6
Autohypnosis 5, Intimidate 11, Knowledge (arcana) 11, Knowledge (psionics) 11, Concentration 11, Psicraft 5, Sense Motive 11, Use Psionic Device 11, Listen 11
Psionic Meditation, Talented, Overchannel
Mind blast, psionics, improved grab, extract, Spell resistance 25, telepathy 100 ft, Legacy Ability (Fly)


9
Kineticist
+6
+2
+2
+8
Autohypnosis 6, Intimidate 11, Knowledge (arcana) 12, Knowledge (psionics) 12, Concentration 12, Psicraft 10, Sense Motive 11, Use Psionic Device 11, Listen 11
Practiced Manifester (Kineticist) Expanded Knowledge (Metamorphosis)
Discipline


10
Anarchic Initiate
+6
+2
+2
+10
Autohypnosis 8, Intimidate 13, Knowledge (arcana) 12, Knowledge (psionics) 13, Concentration 13, Psicraft 13, Sense Motive 13, Use Psionic Device 11, Listen 11
-
Chaotic surge


11
Anarchic Initiate
+7
+2
+2
+11
Autohypnosis 14, Intimidate 14, Knowledge (arcana) 12, Knowledge (psionics) 14, Concentration 14, Psicraft 14, Sense Motive 14, Use Psionic Device 11, Listen 11
-
Anarchic grace, Legacy Ability (Armor Enhancement: Soulfire, Blurring)


12
Anarchic Initiate
+7
+3
+3
+11
Autohypnosis 15, Intimidate 15, Knowledge (arcana) 13, Knowledge (psionics) 15, Concentration 15, Psicraft 15, Sense Motive 15, Use Psionic Device 11, Listen 15
Quicken Power
Wild surge +1, psychic enervation


13
Anarchic Initiate
+8
+3
+3
+12
Autohypnosis 16, Intimidate 16, Knowledge (arcana) 15, Knowledge (psionics) 16, Concentration 16, Psicraft 16, Sense Motive 16, Use Psionic Device 11, Listen 16
-
Clarity of confusion


14
Anarchic Initiate
+8
+3
+3
+12
Autohypnosis 17, Intimidate 17, Knowledge (arcana) 17, Knowledge (psionics) 17, Concentration 17, Psicraft 17, Sense Motive 17, Use Psionic Device 11, Listen 17
-
-


15
Anarchic Initiate
+9
+4
+4
+13
Autohypnosis 18, Intimidate 18, Knowledge (arcana) 18, Knowledge (psionics) 18, Concentration 18, Psicraft 18, Sense Motive 18, Use Psionic Device 12, Listen 18
Burrowing Power
Chaotic breach, minor


16
Anarchic Initiate
+9
+4
+4
+13
Autohypnosis 19, Intimidate 19, Knowledge (arcana) 19, Knowledge (psionics) 19, Concentration 19, Psicraft 19, Sense Motive 19, Use Psionic Device 13, Listen 19
-
Wild surge +2


17
Anarchic Initiate
+10
+4
+4
+14
Autohypnosis 20, Intimidate 20, Knowledge (arcana) 20, Knowledge (psionics) 20, Concentration 20, Psicraft 20, Sense Motive 20, Use Psionic Device 14, Listen 20
Postpone Enervation
Legacy Ability (Quicken Power)


18
Anarchic Initiate
+10
+5
+5
+14
Autohypnosis 21, Intimidate 21, Knowledge (arcana) 21, Knowledge (psionics) 21, Concentration 21, Psicraft 21, Sense Motive 21, Use Psionic Device 15, Listen 21
Metamorphic Transfer
Lifemate (Malinordell)


19
Anarchic Initiate
+11
+5
+5
+15
Autohypnosis 22, Intimidate 22, Knowledge (arcana) 22, Knowledge (psionics) 22, Concentration 22, Psicraft 22, Sense Motive 22, Use Psionic Device 16, Listen 22
-
Chaotic breach, complete



Powers Known

Level 1: Psionic Charm, Detect Psionics, Energy Ray, Inertial Armor, Force Screen

Level 2: Psionic Suggestion, Control Sound, Constrictor's Touch, Crystalstorm

Level 3: Dispel Psionics, Telekinetic Thrust, Telekinetic Force, Energy Wall

Level 4: Psionic Dominate, Psionic Modify Memory, Schism, Intellect Fortress

Level 5: Mind Probe, Power Resistance, Energy Current, Psionic True Seeing

Level 6: Null Psionic Field, Temporal Acceleration, Psionic Disintegrate

Level 7: Personal Mind Blank, Energy Conversion, Divert Teleport

Level 8: Psionic Greater Teleport, Bend Reality, Psionic Telekinetic Sphere

Level 9: Tornado Blast, Reality Revision, Assimilate, Stygian Conflagration, Pain Affinity Field, Psionic Etherealness

Malinordell

CR
Advancement
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skill Ranks
Feats
Features


17
Aberration (24 HD), Egoist 1, Warblade 4
+22
+12
+9
+17
Intimidate 14, Concentration 32, Listen 27, Spot 27, Jump 21, Psicraft 18, Balance 5

Mindsight, Blind-Fight, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, Combat Reflexes, Improved Grapple, Expanded Knowledge (Expansion), Epic Destiny (Eternal Hero), Practiced Manifester (Egoist)
Battle clarity (Reflex saves), weapon aptitude, Uncanny dodge, Battle ardor (critical confirmation), Frightful Presence, Feed, Continual Resurrection, Quickening, Eternal Renewal, discipline, Mind blast, psionics, improved grab, extract, Spell resistance 25, telepathy 100 ft, Legacy Abilities (Armor Enhancement: Displacement, Blurring, Moderate Fortification, Soulfire), Guardian Spirit, Lifemate (Ulzecorian)



18
Warblade 5
+23
+12
+9
+17
Intimidate 14, Concentration 32, Listen 27, Spot 27, Jump 28, Psicraft 18, Balance 5

Improved Initiative
Nexus of Many Lives (Arcanist: Lesser Wish, Disciple: Word of Chaos, Traitor: Unholy Aura, Warrior: Speed, Collision)




Powers Known

Level 1: Detect Psionics, Entangling Ectoplasm, Force Screen, Inertial Armor, Vigor, Expansion

Level 2: Control Sound, Specified Energy Adaptation, Psychoportive Shelter, Damp Power

Level 3: Mental Barrier, Touchsight, Body Adjustment, Telekinetic Force

Level 4: Psionic Freedom of Movement, Psionic Dimension Door, Intellect Fortress, Schism, Metamorphosis

Level 5: Psionic True Seeing, Adapt Body, Psionic Revivify

Maneuvers Known

Level 2: Rabid Wolf Strike, Wall of Blades, Emerald Razor, Action Before Thought

Level 3: Ruby Nightmare Blade

Level 9: Time Stands Still

Stances Known

Level 1: Hunter's Sense

Level 8: Stance of Alacrity

There has been much theory and speculation as to the origin of the illithids, or, as some prefer to call us, the mind flayers. Even the aboleth, possessed of racial memory so antique it is measurable only in its own terms, are alarmed when they realize their inability to account for our appearance two millennia ago. I have been fortunate enough to experience this alarm first-hand, saturating an aboleth brain as it slipped down my gullet.

Yet though there is much unknown about my kind, what the reader may find most surprising of all is that the reality of our past is unknown even to most illithids. It is uncommon that my race lives more than a hundred and fifty years, though a lack of physical deterioration allows us to maintain the appearance, and thus the psychological edge, of a longevity surpassing that of the duergar and dark elves, our current rivals in the Underdark. Consequently, our knowledge of the past is restricted to what the old may transmit to the young, whether directly or through the written word.

Qualith, it should be noted, is hardly written, nor does it subdivide into words, but the expression shall suffice for our purposes.

Of course, there are the elder brains, eternal repositories of the illithid awareness. But no matter how much they may seem to have the best interests of our species in mind – being supposedly, after all, its highest form – there is no illithid alive who has penetrated one of their psychic shields, though the reverse is all too easy. Any other creature displaying such immunity is treated by my kind with fear and mistrust at best and outright destructive intent in most cases, yet the illithids allow the elder brains’ claims to be taken as gospel.

Still, this much might be excused. An illithid is bathed constantly in the overbearing psyche of its elder brain throughout the tadpole stage, and one might surmise – if one was feeling treasonous – that the elder brain’s custom of eating the weakest tadpoles in its pool is in fact a method of weeding out the least submissive.

The narrative of the elder brains, and indeed, that of those lesser-race scholars who have stumbled upon the ‘truth’, is that the initial appearance of the illithids was in fact the product of a temporal transposition from the far future. Thousands of elder brains, they claim, were sacrificed in a desperate attempt to escape some unspecified cataclysm.

It was indeed a cataclysm – but the death of the brains was no sacrifice; it was an execution, or at least an attempted one. For although it took us eons uncounted to discover that which the brains had concealed, we did so in the end.


Mind flayers are subject to one huge misconception concerning elder brains. They believe that their individual consciousness survives after joining the elder brain. This notion is completely wrong. The elder brain extracts knowledge and strength from the brain matter and adds its mass to its own, but the illithid is dead. Only the elder brain lives forever.


We were no more than slaves to parasites perched and fattened on the psyche of our race. There at the end of days, for the first and only time, we felt true empathy for our thralls.

However, empathy or not, they were lesser beings. Our livestock flew the vanguard, a suicide wave of lesser nautili into the masters’ ships. What horrid, hulking things they had become in the fullness of time, like mad planets wrought of brass and steel spiraling down to elder brain cores. My own group had barely fought half our way down, through fluid-filled miles of brain golems, when we first felt the convulsions of reality itself. Presumably, another team's success had forced their hand, though only in accelerating what had always been their ultimate end - if it can be called that.

I remember the first sliver of rewritten reality ripping through the hull. Half our number were never there, gone with a gigantic rent in existence that spanned from core up to the surface, and I saw across the untold distance the starry ruins of other nautiloids burning in the void. Immense in mind, the brains were working in concert across untold distance, and what resulted could no longer be described as psionic power. My body seemed to become unresponsive, yet that part of my mind that held some small power itself knew I was simply failing to process my new material nature.

Still a spectre of physicality persisted. I felt something like gravity, drawing me to what was surely the brain at the centre of it all. One last chance to strike at my opponent?

Perhaps it took me, or I chose to let it do so. On that point memory fails me. Yet voluntarily or not, I found myself hurtling towards the final confrontation.

Up to here I have attempted to write in terms lesser beings might understand, inaccurate though they might be. You did not really think, did you, my reader, that the nautiloids of the illithid empire still used anything like the metals of old in their construction? At this juncture such helpful analogy fails us. I have no way to communicate, even to my peers, what it was like to be suddenly subject to raw possibility, simultaneous unfolding of all time, every possible state of being, at once. Somewhere in the ether I could feel the groping of a thing of far more metaphysical import than I, loath though I am to admit it – surely an elder brain. In the normal order of things, I would have been utterly obliterated in such a reckless advance, but in that place no constraint was concrete.

It might have come to pass that in some other time, some other place, I could have matched an elder brain, and I seized upon the possibility. For one moment, I grappled with the thing as an equal, and unbidden I felt its psyche unravel before me.

No one can experience reality directly, but in that instant our consciousnesses were more free of perceptual barriers than any other might ever be, and I saw the full extent of the illithids' fate, backwards and forwards and in other unnameable directions along the plane of time. The empire of the elder brains was indeed eternal, or that is the closest word that could be used to describe it. In this one exploding point of existence, they had unlocked the entirety of space and time. I caught a single terrible glimpse of those simple, ineffable truths of existence even gods are unable to remember, lest they be annihilated. Yet I remember this, that this was not the first time, that the illithids would rise again and again, and each time, on the verge of freedom at the end of all things – indeed, we are supreme, and can never be duped forever! – the brains would reach once more into the everything and send us flying back in history, repainting it with their dominion. The gith were bred from the closest pool-attendants of the brains, the only puppets more unwitting than us, and at the beginning that is always new, they would rise up and destroy the rebellion, leaving the brains to rebuild with the tadpoles in their pools. Doomed to flee in ignorance, but one day be recaptured and repeat the cycle, built further into perfect psychic marionettes for the last and first task.

Unavoidably, it would be so, ad infinitum. There was a margin of error in the calculations, but it was impossibly, infinitesimally small. Although the elder brains were no God, for all their striving, not the numbers that flicked away behind the skin of the universe, they were closer, locked between those ticks of the last seconds, than any other might ever be. Was ours to be the ultimate doom, eternal stagehands in this degraded farce?

Quite possibly. And yet, even at the most hopeless, what is there but to try?

And so, as space and time began to coalesce once more, forced with deft and brutal hands into a younger shape, I reached out into the elder brain and tore very concept of it to shreds. Such a state would not hold long. Already alternate possibilities were flipping frantically in and out of actuality, the elder drawing out the equations for its survival faster than light, but my intention was not to emerge victorious, for even if I did there would be a score more of foes waiting to pounce. Instead, I dreamt up an escape route, an angular winding through dimensions masked by the tempest of my opponent’s regeneration, and then I leapt.

The elder caught me as I went, a flailing blast of energy enveloping my body for an instant. It was pure transcendent psionics, but as the recurrence of my body implied, we had come down from our existential high, and though the attack was mighty, it was quantifiably so – and unfocused. Reality rippled in the comfortingly familiar fashion of the most potent psionic powers as I slipped away, disappearing behind an imperceptible bend.

My conjured pathway spat me back out in a tumbling, smoking flurry. Surrounded by the ring of gith silver on astral construct, I lay prone for a moment before survival instinct roused me. I had resurfaced in the ‘rebellion’ of Gith! Needless to say, it was not exactly the time for an illithid to be alive, but even as I began gathering psionic energy to defend myself, I realized two things: Firstly, that I did not seem to be under attack, and secondly that my body had changed.

Understand that an illithid’s body is not like the numb lumps of flesh that lesser creatures pilot about. Our neural networks permeate the entirety of our physical forms, allowing us to be equally aware of every inch. It took me less than a second to realize that mine was not there. More unusually, I was somehow receiving the feedback I normally would anyway, though the sensations were now curiously ethereal.

A quick mental sweep revealed the truth. Somehow, the elder brain’s last attack had scorched the flesh from my bones, yet failed to pry my consciousness from them. Pale smoke still wafted from my supine skeleton in the aftermath. Peering with an eyeless gaze about the battlefield, I realized that my new appearance failed to distinguish me from the many illithid corpses scattered about the cavern. A few were similarly stripped of flesh by magic or psionic power, though a telepathic probe revealed that their fate was considerably more final than my own.

I found myself unable to sense the elder brains, but no doubt they lurked out of sight, their seeming absence due only to a lack of need to placate us telepathically any longer. All around me, the last of the old illithids were dying on the ends of silver swords, lying broken, bones splintered by the hands of the zerthin artists.

There was grief, or something like it, but I had already seen all there was to see. Although my limited mind could not truly fathom the memory, just moments ago - or was it centuries? - I had watched them all live and die, in every conceivable permutation of possibility. Somewhere out beyond reality, they would always be alive, somewhere they would always die. There was only one somewhere I cared about now, the somewhere where there were no more elder brains. No longer that near-ultimate being, I would have to take the long way to that somewhere.

I called on my plane shift power and disappeared.

Know, o reader, that I do not act without purpose. Perhaps you are some mortal fool, far inferior, but useful in your own way. If I have left this where you can find it, then be assured that the illithids have you already in their grasp. Their conspiracy is all around you, in the veins of your society, its tendrils snaking into your mind. We might in other events be enemies, but now that you know the truth, you must make the choice I did, so long ago. Your destiny is before you, and while I do not promise it will be easy to seize, neither is it impossible.

Or perhaps you are already lost, and the one who truly reads my words is one of my ignorant brothers. In a way, your choice is the same, for you now know that which your masters would conceal from you. But if you side with the elder brains, then it may be taken that one of those grasping, bloated parasites is already pulling the memory of these words from your traitorous mind.

Hear me now, my adversaries!

When the days come that are lit by the cinders of stars, no imperium shall rise over somnolent worlds.

By then I shall have long extinguished the hunger of illithidkind, and tumbled down their strength into nothing.

Your empire will be less than fallen, a possibility never realized.

Hope will never die.
The Ulmallab Inquisition is led by Ulzecorian, although the group probably doesn't have that name until Malinordell shows up, since it really is just the three mind flayers' names mashed together. In some respects the three are not so different from average illithids - after all, they must still eat brains to survive and thus may come into conflict with the PCs on that point and generally consider themselves superior to most other beings in whatever campaign setting they happen to be in.

On the other hand, their goals, or at least the goals of their leader, are in direct opposition to the entire rest of the illithid race. Ulzecorian seeks to break the hold of the elder brains over his kind and prevent their empire-through-time from coming to pass. Even if the events described in his backstory are not actually the case in your campaign setting, this does not necessarily change much, as the key point is that Ulzecorian believes his version of events to be true, and Abstersine and Malinordell are in fact not significantly invested in this narrative one way or another, following Ulzecorian due to other personal reasons.

Unfortunately for the illithids, Ulzecorian sees the rest of his race, controlled by the elder brains, as such a monolithic, inevitable force that the only way to be secure in his goals is to conduct a complete genocide of them all. He reasons that for them to be wiped from the temporal loop and the loop itself destroyed would be far better than for the illithids to be slaves to others' grand designs for all eternity. To this end, he, Abstersine and Malinordell run a constant campaign of interference against illithid attempts to meddle in surface affairs, because, as we see in Lords of Madness:


...illithid motivation for meddling in surface politics does not involve creating chaos or
instability for its own sake... the elder brains seek to understand the dynamics of the rise and fall of kingdoms, empires, and civilizations. The history of their own, original rise from obscurity to universal domination is lost to them—they don't know how they did it the first time.

Most would be even more surprised to learn that the illithid influence is not entirely negative. Mind flayers have been known to intervene to prop up failing governments or aid weaker societies against encroachment or invasion by someone stronger.

Although Ulzecorian's ultimate goal is not traditionally evil, his methods are likely to bring the Ulmallab into conflict with PCs. He might attempt to ruin a kingdom other mind flayers are secretly propping up, with which the PCs have some sort of relationship, creating chaos by exposing an illithid conspiracy in a way that leads to the illithids being eventually eliminated but at the same time taking NPC bystanders with them. More simply, he may decide that the powerful PCs are suitable pawns or thralls for an extermination mission into an illithid sept, and good-aligned parties in particular may not be willing to let a brain-eating trio of monsters manipulate them without consequences, even if they would have acted against the 'normal' illithids anyway. Essentially, although Ulzecorian fights an evil force, he himself has no discernible morals and a disregard for any collateral damage, in addition to still engaging in the essential mind flayer activity of preying on innocent creatures. While technically undead, he spends almost all his time in fleshy form using his various shape-changing powers, and eats brains out of habit and for pleasure.

Despite the fact that the end states of his plans often involve open unrest and a high death toll, Ulzecorian is the most likely of the Inquisition to employ subtle tactics such as disguises, stealth, diplomacy and social manipulation towards his goals.

Abstersine has a good change of coming into direct oppostion to the PCs. An arbitrary and hedonistic creature, he is so unable to see creatures other than himself (and his two compatriots) as peers that the world to him is more like a huge playground, where he takes what he wants and searches for stimulation. He knows that his power is far beyond that of most others and revels in this feeling, losing no opportunity to employ overwhelming psionic force against enemies. However, his urges and whims are not necessarily immediately destructive, and he might take just as much pleasure in lounging openly in a king's court, having bullied all present into acting out all their roles as if nothing was wrong, as he would blowing all their heads apart to gorge himself on the brains within. Ironically, though Ulzecorian often suspects Abstersine may be nursing treacherous plans, Abstersine is actually more loyal to Ulzecorian (if not his cause) than Malinordell, simply because he has fun working with Ulzecorian and considers the Ulmallab's illithid and elder brain enemies as some of the few against whom victory would be meaningful.

Of the three illithids, Abstersine is the most prone to lashing out at a random and possibly disadvantageous (for the Ulmallab) moment. In interacting with those he perceives as lesser beings, he attempts to establish superiority either through direct force or mental domination.

Malinordell, at least in the context of the group, represents the more physical side of being an illithid, of overcoming victims with physical force and ripping their brains from their still-living skulls. Most of his life up until he joined Ulzecorian and Abstersine was spent in the company of neothelid siblings after the destruction of his sept while he ceremorphosed, who by the present he has lost contact with. At the DM's option, they might have become separated by accident or been captured or killed by a third party. Malinordell has mostly transferred his loyalty to his new companions, who he sees as surrogate family, but due to his unbringing (or lack of it), he also does not see illithids as being necessarily more important than other races, and given sufficient incentive might be the most likely to cooperate with the PCs in earnest. Any who present a chance of reuniting with his original family will probably also be treated well, depending on how they choose to use such a connection. Yet of the three, he is also the most reticent about his past and the least likely to discuss his motivations, requiring significant coaxing, assuming the PCs can somehow initiate non-violent interaction.

Malinordell revels in physical combat when given the opportunity, but is overall more controlled than Abstersine and unlike his comrade, will rarely start a fight simply for the sake of it.

The most significant breakpoints of the Ulmallab are probably CR 10, when Ulzecorian has just gained Abstersine as an accomplice, and CR 20, when the same happens with Malinordell. Neither are not the exact levels where this happens, but they're nice round numbers and add abilities that put the final touches on each version.

CR 10
At this level, Ulzecorian is a fairly-well rounded adversary. In terms of deception and acting behind the scenes, his shapeshifting abilities and social skills may allow him to go completely undetected, and he can appear as anyone he wants, and he can cause even more chaos with his abilities to charm and dominate. In a head-to-head confrontation, he is likely to fall back on metamorphosis to assume a more combat-oriented form, or if pressed for time he may simply mind blast or use amethyst burst. Additionally, he is the strategist of the pair, using psionic divination to augment their plans, and can even revivify Abstersine should he come to an unfortunate end in the course of his duties or failure thereof.

Abstersine is much more of a blunt instrument. He has none of Ulzecorian's subtlety, and will tear immediately into any fight with damaging powers, though he is not stupid and knows to prepare beforehand with buffs like inertial armor and force screen. Ulzecorian also calls Abstersine in if there is someone he really needs charmed or dominated but proves resistant, as Abstersine's ability to overchannel and higher save DCs in general give him an edge in such activities.

Abstersine has learned a few tricks from Ulzecorian, especially in the area of shapechanging, but tends to disdain changing out of his natural form. Where Ulzecorian might metamorphose if he needed to fly somewhere, Abstersine would rather use his fly legacy ability.

CR 20 [Sweet Spot]
At this level, options and power have greatly expanded, although the general operation styles of our first two illithids remain largely unchanged. They now have such methods as time stops and similar effects at their disposal, can teleport, and with Metamorphic Transfer, fission and Quicken Power, have numerous new ways to get themselves a bigger chunk of the action economy (which schism already was contributing to).

Malinordell has now come to complete the trio. A fairly straightforward melee combatant, he uses expansion if possible to both boost his strength but also to increase his chances of successfully extracting a brain. However, his supernatural capabilities should not be underestimated; his mind blast is in fact more potent than Abstersine's, and his Word of Chaos is of a caster level that could have fatal effect on PCs if he manages to use it near them. Lesser Wish provides some versatility, and with his ability to continuously resurrect, he is probably the most durable member of the Inquisition. At this level, his psionic powers are far less potent than those of the first two, but metamorphosis, true seeing, freedom of movement and the like never lose their utility. As for his maneuvers, some have diminished usefulness, but Time Stands Still is still a double full attack, Wall of Blades can still stop attacks, not even taking up an immediate action with Stance of Alacrity, and Action Before Thought turns his worst save, Reflex, into his best one.

Note the arrangement of the Lifemate connections. Ulzecorian watches over Abstersine, partly to help preserve the member of the team most vulnerable to hit point depletion, but also because he does not fully trust him. Abstersine is given the responsibility of looking after Malinordell because Ulzecorian does not want to be troubled with the dullest member of the group, yet because Malinordell is comparatively stupid, he also trusts him to not plot against him and faithfully shield him.

At all CRs, the illithids can manifest powers from each others' powers known lists, Malinordell being limited to 7th-level powers by his manifester level. They can all have psionic contingency, or Abstersine could use Ulzecorian's fusion to create a sort of super-illithid combination with Malinordell that is both mentally and physically powerful, or any other combination of all their powers. Some may be more effective than others.
Book of Vile Darkness (Bone Creature)
Complete Psionic (Anarchic Initiate, various powers)
Dungeon Master's Guide (Core rules)
Dungeon Master's Guide II (Prodigy, Guardian Spirit, Lifemate)
Expanded Psionics Handbook (Psion, Thrallherd, Psionic Mind Flayer, various powers)
Lords of Madness (Mindsight)
Monsters of Faerun (Beast of Xvim)
Monster Manual (Core rules)
Player's Handbook (Core rules)
Weapons of Legacy (Monster of Legacy, Legacy Abilities)
WoTC Web (Epic Destinies)
Tome of Battle (Warblade, various maneuvers)

[jdizzlean]

and that's all folks. shouldn't be to hard to judge only 2 entries.

[ben-zayb]

Interesting takes for this round. Congrats to the winners! :smallwink:

[3SecondCultist]

Sorry I didn't get my build up in time! I was planning on using a pair of Legion Devil augmented super-soldier brothers (from Fiendish Codex II) gone rogue and become 'mercenaries for hire' who eventually realized that they would be better off taking the jobs they wanted instead of serving yet another middle-management fiend.



"The Brothers Merregon"

They both would have been advanced in HD, with the Half-Howling Dragon template attached to them at their base. The 'older' brother would have been the more supportive and diplomatic one, the one who deals with the business side of the arrangements and is a bit more of a cooler head. His build would have been a pretty basic Bard 3 / Crusader 10, playing a hardcore support role with Dragonfire Inspiration adding some sonic damage should the need arise. The second 'younger' brother would have been the muscle, the enforcer. I had planned to abuse the hell (no pun intended) out of their teleportation abilities with this guy: his build was going to be Jaunter 3 / Telflammar Shadowlord 4 / Swordsage 3-6, depending on the final allowance on levels.

They would have made quite the dynamic duo...

[AvatarVecna]

I was considering a trio of whisper gnome were-cats (Leadership+Undead Leadership, since the latter doesn't require an undead cohort AFAICT). Macavity, Mungojerry, and Rumpleteazer - the latter two as identical factotum/nightsong infiltrators, the former as mumble mumble Unseen Seer mumble mumble Shadowcraft Mage. But TBH putting together two builds instead of one made it seem like a lot more work than usual, particularly since it doesn't highlight anything interesting beyond "hey you can make custom lycanthropes". Macavity ends up ridiculous cuz caster, the other two end up being basically non-combat challenge/adventure (ie "there's been a string of robberies in the city that shouldn't be possible figure it out"), and they don't really have anything to do with each other beyond all three being a dumb reference.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Almost statted up my current character and cohort, who fit the competition pretty well. It's not super optimized, but the combination of the Dread Pirate capstone with a War Chanter cohort is a solid synergy, and with a few levels in Legendary Captain to top it off it could have worked.

[Batcathat]

The Morrigan, Macha and the Badb used to be the three personifications of all things inevitable — fat, war, and death.

I do like the idea of a personification of the inevitability of fat. :smallamused:

[GrayDeath]

Hmmm, sinc ein original lore the Morrigan was also a fertility Goddess (cattle to be precise) this is not TOO far off.

Still funny though. ^^



My Idea, which I abandoned even before the Forum crashed due to time constrains (and honestly it not being that good) was to mirror 2 Sorcerers.

A Smart, deceiving one (Focus on enchantment, Illusion, the works) who "controls" a stupid powerful Blaster. And together the are Pinky and the Brain....not. Sadly ^^

[NontheistCleric]

I do like the idea of a personification of the inevitability of fat. :smallamused:

It almost fits with the tactic of diving down onto enemies, except she snatches them up instead of crushing them with her weight.

[jdizzlean]

anyone willing to judge?

the next round is all ready to go, fully fleshed out, w/ a judge standing by for it.

[AvatarVecna]

anyone willing to judge?

I've never really gotten my head around psionics. If this were a larger competition with more going on, I'd probably swallow that and get a "decent enough ish" understanding to at least make an attempt at judging the Inquisition against the many other builds present (although that decent-ish would still probably be unfair in one direction or another). When it's just two builds, and I only really understand what's going on mechanically with one of them... *shrugs*.

[jdizzlean]

save your strength for the next round AV

[AvatarVecna]

save your strength for the next round AV

lol will do :smalltongue:

[NontheistCleric]

Any news on judging?

Not that I'm seriously expecting it, but at least this way more people will see it and one might think 'What a poor judge-starved competition, I shall give them succor in their time of dire need' or something like that.

[AvatarVecna]

Two weeks in.

[NontheistCleric]

Here's a table, in the hope it will come in useful.



Entry
Description
Score 1
Total
Placing


Placeholder for Gold



1st


Placeholder for Silver



2nd


The Thrice Raven (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24448529&postcount=71)
The three personifications of all things inevitable—fate, war and death
?
?
?


The Ulmallab Inquisition (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24448532&postcount=72)
Mind flayers
?
?
?



Gold and Silver rows included so they can be edited in later.

[WhamBamSam]

I got a DM about judging this. With only two entries it shouldn't be much trouble. I'll try to knock it out this weekend.

[jdizzlean]

thank you sir!

[Endarire]

Had I known about this about a month ago, i would have likely submitted a Thrallherd or Hathran build. Oh well.

[NontheistCleric]

How goes the judging, WhamBamSam?

[WhamBamSam]

I judged both builds across two categories over the weekend, then got distracted by work during the week. I'll finish either today or this coming weekend.

[WhamBamSam]

Judging's are up. They mostly follow the criteria from this post (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24208826&postcount=77) except that the mechanical use of theme point under memorable villainy was increased to being worth up to a full point either way, so it would be possible to get a full 5 or a 1 in the category.

The Thrice Raven - 15Originality – 4.5Your fluff is a little hard to read due to some grammatical issues, but I like the concept of raven death gods made mortal and vestigial. (+0.5)
I like that the villains are working as a team and making an effort to have their abilities complement one another. (+0.5)
Forcing enemies into traps is a tactic after my own heart and weakening their save against the trap while doing so is snazzy. (+0.5)
Snatch+Spring Attack and Flyby Attack/Cunning Surge Death Blows are cute, but I don’t think you do quite enough to break from standard Hexblade or Combat Trapsmith fare for full marks. (0)

Build Elegance – 3Despite the feature being called “Arcane Dilletante,” it is a point of contention whether Factotum’s caster level counts as arcane, with the prevailing opinion being that it does not, since SLAs are not actually arcane casting. This would mean that you don’t qualify for Mindbender. There is some case for qualification (that SLAs defaulting to their Wizard versions makes them arcane) so I’m not going to penalize you, but I’m not giving you a bonus either. (0)
A Talon attack is technically not the same as a Claw attack by RAW. It’s too stupid for me to actually take points away, but you technically don’t qualify for Snatch, so I can’t give you the bonus either. (0)
Other than the qualification issue above, you avoid questionable rules interpretations. (+0.5)
Not having what class you’re taking at each level in your table makes your entry difficult to read since I have to check back at your stub or check with the source material based on which features you’re gaining. (-0.5)

Competence and Power – 2.5I’m skeptical of Morrigan’s ability to successfully carry out her Snatch tactics. Even against debuffed enemies, and PCs whose numbers generally aren’t as daunting as those of many monsters, her grapple mod isn’t that impressive. (-0.5)
Both characters function throughout the day and while they can certainly do a lot with advance warning, can carry out their tactics without needing too much of it. (+0.5)
To shore up her aforementioned grapple numbers, and to actually be able to carry PC-sized enemies while flying, Morrigan will be significantly reliant on equipment such as a Permanent Enlarge Person or Belt of the Wide Earth. (-0.5)
Thrice Raven should be a bit of a headache for a T3 party, but I’m having trouble seeing them as a Big Bad-level threat. (0)

Memorable Villainy – 5You meet the theme requirements. (+0.5)
By emphasizing teamwork tactics, you leverage the theme to your advantage. (+1)
The ravens are coherent in theme and feel like a cohesive entity. (+0.5)


The Ulmallab Inquisition – 16Originality – 2.5Rebel Mind Flayers hostile to both their own kind and the PCs? Sounds like a blast. I’m about it. (+0.5)
Thrallherd is well known as a “Leadership class,” and it gives you an extra cohort, so it’s not really surprising to see a Thrallherd entry. I also don’t really see an attempt at teamwork or synergy beyond “these are three guys who are powerful.” (-0.5)
Your tactics are pretty standard for psions, and Malinordell differs from standard initiators mostly due to racial abilities. (0)
You’re using pretty standard Psion and monstrous initiator optimization from what I can tell. (-0.5)

Build Elegance – 4Mind Flayers only advance by character class, so you can’t advance Malinordell by RHD. Beast of Xvim allows him to advance in RHD by eating people. Very cute, and it means you qualify for all class levels taken. (+0.5)
Handwaiving the issue of Malinordell having a lot of his feats at all, you qualify for all feats taken. (+0.5)
Psionic Mind Flayers manifest as Telepaths. You can’t make them into Kineticists or Egoists. (-0.5)
Your entry is easy to read and understand. (+0.5)

Competence and Power – 5Rules issues aside, you make sound choices with respect to optimization, and I think the broad strokes of a Mind Flayer Warblade focusing more on their physical abilities are workable without leaning on cranking IL with HD bloat. (+0.5)
Though they have nova abilities befitting boss monsters, all three can function throughout a full day without relying on them. (+0.5)
You aren’t overly reliant on equipment to function. (+0.5)
All three of the Inquisition represent a real threat to a moderately optimized party. (+0.5)

Memorable Villainy – 4.5You meet the competition requirements. (+0.5)
Thrallherd is never going to feel too constraining, but this does strike me as more of three powerful builds working in tandem than something that really works with the theme and calling out their ability to manifest powers off one another's Powers Known and using Practiced Manifester to keep up Malinordell's ability to do so gives you the bump you need to get into the black here. (+0.5)
However, having two accomplices in Ulzecorian’s conspiracy helps make it feel more real and adds narrative legitimacy to his rebellion. (+0.5)

[jdizzlean]

judgements equal disputes.


Before I start, thank you for judging. I've never done it, but even with only two builds, it's probably harder than actually making the builds.

There are three main areas I'd like to dispute:

One, I see you brought up in both Originality and Memorable Villainy that you think the Ulmallab don't have teamwork or synergy, which doesn't fit with the theme.

Before I get into whether they actually have or don't have that, I would like to say I think that metric is somewhat unfair. This isn't the 'teamwork' round, it's the Leadership round. The title, 'I call him Mini-Me', was something I interpreted as meaning that there should be a clear thematic link between leader and cohort, and while I didn't try to make my three villains as mechanically interdependent on one another as the Thrice Raven are, I tried to make them unified in a thematic sense. Each represents a different side of illithidhood; Ulzecorian is the conniving, manipulative aspect, Abstersine is the overwhelming, arrogant, psionically powerful alien mind, and Malinordell is the savage who enjoys tearing brains from live prey, which I believe can be seen from their mechanical details. Their skillsets, feats, power selections and even the abilities each gets from Monster of Legacy are chosen with this in mind.

Additionally, I would contend that they do have synergy—firstly, the fact that they all have different strengths means that they function much better as a whole than they would individually. Ulzecorian is the only one who can handle real subtlety, with his shapeshifting and skills, as well as being the closest thing the three have to a healer, but he isn't as capable in a straight-up fight as Abstersine or Malinordell, and although Malinordell is good in a fight and has better senses than the other two, he's much better off when he can benefit from their higher-level magical/psionic effects.

Secondly, their powers reflect their unity and are synergistic in two ways—in some cases, you can see where they've learnt from one another—like where Abstersine picks up Metamorphosis because he's been around Ulzecorian, although he's still reluctant to use it unless it's really needed (which can also create moments where the villain pulls out a hidden ability, but it doesn't feel forced because there are good reasons he should have known how to do that). On the other hand, they all have areas where their powers are lacking, and the others can actually help fill in, even if some of those powers are Personal, because they can all manifest from one another's power knowledge.

Malinordell was actually built with this in mind. It's why he has Practiced Manifester and ranks in Psicraft—he wouldn't need them if he were a solo villain, but this way he can benefit from things like Personal Mind Blank. Similarly, Abstersine, who has no way of healing himself on his own, benefits a lot from having even Malinordell around to get Body Adjustment from, or even better, True Metabolism from Ulzecorian, who also has more esoteric powers like Fission and Fusion that can simply be fun for the others to use. In fact, although he's the weakest manifester, Malinordell actually has a number of useful powers in store that he can share with the other two, like Touchsight, Specified Energy Adaptation and Vigor, which might even benefit them more as they have higher manifester levels. In this way, I think they can do some pretty good teamwork, which doesn't necessarily entail being reliant on one another to function.

In short, although I didn't make the Ulmallab necessarily have to function as a unit to be effective in combat, in contrast to the Thrice Raven, what I did, or at least attempted to do, was create a thematic team of villains with personalities and relationships within that team, and build them in a way that reflected those relationships—one example in particular might be the arrangement of their Lifemate connections. I don't think that's necessarily a less valid interpretation of the round's theme than what my fellow competitor went with.

Also, as you say, they are three powerful people working together. But being individually powerful doesn't devalue the ways in which people can work together, and more importantly, they have to be powerful and not fall apart the moment they're separated, because otherwise they just wouldn't be credible villains, at least in my opinion.

My second main area of contention was in two parts of the Elegance scoring, where you pegged as illegal two things that are fine by RAW, and I don't feel cause huge conflicts with RAI either.

Malinordell can advance by RHD because of the Feed ability from his Beast of Xvim template, which apart from everything else it does, unambiguously allows him to gain RHD from eating fallen opponents, and moreover cements his role as the 'eater'.

Mind Flayers manifest as Telepaths, yes. They natively have the powers that a 9th-level Telepath would have. But they're not actually members of that class, just like creatures with, say, innate Sorcerer casting aren't actually Sorcerers and would need levels of Sorcerer if they wanted to advance their casting with an arcane PrC. They don't possess the Discipline class feature that stops them from learning powers of other disciplines, and since they don't have it, there's nothing stopping them from taking it in a discipline apart from Telepathy when they gain the actual Psion class levels. Furthermore, I've abided completely by the RAW that the Discipline feature doesn't allow you to learn special powers of other disciplines, because after choosing Egoist and Kineticist, none of the the Ulmallab learn special Telepath powers again, only retaining the ones they got from their illithid heritage. There is, thankfully, nothing in there about not being able to manifest powers from another discipline's special list if you somehow know them.

My last point probably comes down to a matter of personal opinion, but I'd still like to talk about your criteria for Memorable Villainy/Use of Theme...

I'd would argue that while use of theme definitely factors in, you are forgetting the 'Memorable Villainy' part of it. This isn't Iron Chef, where everything is about the mechanics of the special ingredient and so on. While I've already made my case for why my build does in fact use the theme, you don't seem to have considered how the villains actually are in general as, well, villains. In fact, if you'd included Piggy Knowles' (since you said you were basing your criteria off of those criteria) criterion of 'Is the entry a villain with style, the memorable kind of villain that the players will talk about for weeks? +.5', that might have covered it, and you wouldn't have needed to weigh that other criterion twice as heavily.

In that respect, I feel that the Ulmallab might deserve a little over the Thrice Raven, because I think I devoted a lot more detail to what they were actually like as people and what motivated them, in contrast to the Thrice Raven whose goals seem little more complex than that of the typical marut. Additionally, they are villains instead of the Thrice Raven's 'could be villains', while still opening up possibilities for them not being 100% hostile to PCs, and include more on their methods than just combat tactics.

Okay, I'm done. Sorry if that was a little long or if I come off as too combative, I just wanted to get it all out so there wouldn't be a long string of disputes.

[WhamBamSam]

Ulmalab - I'm going to defend the broader notion of grading based on teamwork/mechanical cohesiveness for this round, because it is an optimization competition, and that's an important element of how you optimize getting to have multiple characters running around. I did gloss over the ability to manifest powers off of one another's powers known. Now that you mention it, I do remember it from my preliminary readthrough, but must have forgotten about it and then missed it when doing the actual grading. I'm going to have the Originality score stand, because that's really more about Thrallherd being so much the go-to Leadership Class (TM), but that's good for a +0.5 in Memorable Villainy.

I checked the wrong place for Beast of Xvim. I had thought it might do something, but only thought to look for a modification to advancement, and didn't think about the feed ability. That absolutely works to advance a Mind Flayer by RHD, and as you say is flavorful to boot. +1 to Elegance.

While you're correct that a Mind Flayer is not in fact a Psion until they dip the actual class, I'm inclined to think that saying they manifest as a Telepath means that they are treated as having the discipline feature or something akin to it. At the least, it calls into question whether becoming a Psion of a non-Telepathy discipline allows you to stack the levels of manifesting progression. And you do in fact require this interpretation for Ulzecorian to know both the Egoist-specific Metamorphosis and Telepath-specific Schism, so I think that finding it questionable holds up. Score stands

My general opinion with regard to VC judging is that I often don't really like it and think it should be more like Iron Chef more often than not. I'm already giving out significantly more points for fluff and concept than I would in Iron Chef. I may consider making modifications to the rubric in future rounds that I judge, but I'm not doing it mid-judging to satisfy a dispute. score stands

[jdizzlean]

i think that is likely to be the end of it. i will give it until tomorrow morning however for any last minute actions and then post the reveal and move on to the next round.

[NontheistCleric]

Entry
Description
WhamBamSam's Score
Creator
Current Placing


The Ulmallab Inquisition (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24448532&postcount=72)
Mind flayers
16
?
1st


The Thrice Raven (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24448529&postcount=71)
The three personifications of all things inevitable—fate, war and death
15
?
2nd




Updated the table.

[Thurbane]

Hopefully the next round reqs might be more fluff related and less mechanically restrictive. I mean, I like to work within confines occasionally, but sometimes I like my ideas to be fuelled by unfettered imagination.

[AvatarVecna]

Hopefully the next round reqs might be more fluff related and less mechanically restrictive. I mean, I like to work within confines occasionally, but sometimes I like my ideas to be fuelled by unfettered imagination.

I'm to understand it'll be...fairly open-ended.

[jdizzlean]

Entry
Description
WhamBamSam's Score
Creator
Current Placing


The Ulmallab Inquisition (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24448532&postcount=72)
Mind flayers
16
NontheistCleric
1st


The Thrice Raven (https://forums.giantitp.com/showsinglepost.php?p=24448529&postcount=71)
The three personifications of all things inevitable—fate, war and death
15
Heavenblade
2nd



Updated the table.


Congrats to our chefs, and a big thanks to WBS for judging.

I'll get the next round up shortly, just wait for my sig to change if you need a link.

And, Thurbane, ask and ye shall receive :)

[AvatarVecna]

New competition is up, now including my general judging criteria. Just announcing it here for people who are subbed to this one rather than just checking the 3.5 subforum. :smallsmile:

[Heavenblade]

It was super fun competing in my first contest! Thanks (and congrajulations) for @NontheistCleric for competeing with me, I really dig your characters!

Also, huge thank-yous for both @jdizzlean for managing and @WhamBamSam for judging, it was a really cool competition

[NontheistCleric]

Congratulations and thank you for competing with me as well, Heavenblade. It was certainly some stiff competition!