PF1: How can this curse be even playable?

[Selion]

I'm building an oracle for my next character, and the Scourge curse would fit thematically with my character's concept. The thing is that, other than being almost utterly useless, this curse seems to be extremely annoying and even unplayable in most situations.


Scourge
Source PPC:WO

EFFECT

You are a blight on the natural world. Bizarre natural hazards develop within a 300-ft radius around you whenever you linger in a natural area for more than 10 minutes, as lesser curse terrain. You cannot choose the hazards or their locations. However, your movement is unimpeded by undergrowth, as a druid’s woodland stride ability, as plants wither away in your footsteps.

At 5th level, add feast of ashes to your list of 2nd-level oracle spells known.

At 10th level, add explosion of rot to your list of 4th-level oracle spells known.

At 15th level, add swarm skin to your list of 6th-level oracle spells known.

To prevent further tedious researches on your part: Lesser Curse Terrain (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/curse-terrain/)
And again, the spell text refers to another set of rules, namely the Horrifying Hazards (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/traps-hazards-and-special-terrains/hazards/horrifying-hazards/) (only those with CR 3 or less)

Ok, so anytime I'd stop in a natural area (I guess urban areas would be safe zones) for ten minutes random things would strike the entire party.
With a few levels this would become more an annoyance than a threat anyway, but do you think there is a way to circumvent or reduce this effect?

Would building tiny huts in the wilderness protect my character from the curse? A character that needs constantly to be on the move and that builds temporary shelters anytime he needs to sleep could offer some roleplaying hooks, but i fear on the long run it could just become boring.

[Crake]

Seems like the obvious solution is to stick to urban areas, and make sure wildlands expeditions only occur when you have access to teleport to return home at the end of the day, rather than camping out in the woods. Clerics (and thus oracles I imagine) get access to the word of recall spell which would seem to work rather well for this. Just... stick to towns until then I guess?

[Hellpyre]

The curse itself seems very unpleasant to deal with for the rest of your party, but I did come across this gem in the Rain of Gore entry


During this time, each round that a character remains in the open, it takes 2d6 points of bludgeoning damage unless it succeeds 157 at a DC 13 Reflex save

Better pump your saves.

[Kurald Galain]

do you think there is a way to circumvent or reduce this effect?No, because that's the point of oracle curses. However, it seems that most of these hazards are stationary, so very little will actually strike at your party.


Would building tiny huts in the wilderness protect my character from the curse?No, a single hut does not constitute urban terrain. Besides, huts take more than ten minutes to build.

You basically wreck the countryside wherever you go. Yeah, I agree it'd get boring after awhile.

[Psychoalpha]

Small point of disagreement: You linked to 'Horrifying Hazards' which are kind of their own thing, while the spell/curse refers to 'unnatural hazards'. I'd contend that it's referring to 'Special Hazards' which are:


The hazards listed below are not “ordinary” hazards in the sense that they involve either supernatural effects, or strange creatures or forces outside the realm of “normal” environmental hazards.

Link: Special Hazards (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/traps-hazards-and-special-terrains/hazards/special-hazards/)

I guess it could include both, and I don't know that this really makes things any better, but I thought it was worth pointing out. ;D

[Gnaeus]

Not great, but it refers to minor perilous demesne, which states that the hazards must be appropriate to the environment. So you could pick the hazards by picking the environment. Just find an environment (like underground maybe?) where the hazards that emerge are manageable (the bats probably couldn’t get through heavy netting). Still annoying, but also exploitable (since enemies are likely less prepared to deal with these than you are.

[Psyren]

While the curse can indeed be tricky, here are some points to consider.

1) As Gnaeus stated, the hazards that develop have to fit the terrain you're in, so you have some measure of control. Not much if you have to be in a specific terrain type, but in a diverse enough biome then you have some ability to choose. For example, if there is no pool of water near your group, you probably won't have to worry about any Captivating Reflections, and if you're underground or in a cave then a Rain of Gore isn't possible either. You can also plan ways to deal with likely hazards based on your surroundings; using Captivating Reflection as an example again, if there is a body of water nearby and you know you can't keep it at a distance, work with your party to interact with it in pairs. Say, one person fills the waterskins, while the other watches them, and if person A ends up captivated, person B can begin making the strength checks to drag them away before they stick their heads in the water on the third minute.

2) The hazards are supposed to occur randomly in a 300ft. radius; If instead they are hitting the party every time, you probably have a GM who is going out of their way to troll the group. Rather, the proper way handle this is for them to randomly determine the hazard based on the available possibilities, and then randomly determine its location - if the party stays in a small group (30ft. or less), you actually stand a pretty good chance of not being affected at all. (Camping for the night is another story, as that's 48 hazards in 8 hours - but see below.)

3) When you're forced to sleep outdoors away from civilization, you can always just sleep 300ft away from the party - most of the low-CR hazards won't mess with players who don't interact with them, so you can generally sleep through the night unharmed.) Now, Rain of Gore is still a nasty one to end up with as that's going to cover the whole radius, but the rest of them have a decent chance of the party not seeing them at all.

4) Wilderness Origins lets you know exactly what kind of hazards it means, and this is the sort of situation where having the book is handy :smallsmile: the Scourge curse references lesser curse terrain from Horror Adventures 114, which in turn references the minor perilous demesne land curse from HA 145, which in turn references the Hazards subsection of the Environments section on HA 154. In other words, the Horrifying Hazards link (with Bat Colony, Blood Moon et al.) is indeed the correct list. (The "Special Hazards" appear to come from a totally different book.)


TL;DR this sounds bad for your party but in practice, most of the time it's pretty manageable. It wouldn't be my favorite curse for the party Oracle to choose but it's not going to TPK the party every time they leave town either, especially as they climb in levels and the hazards stay static.

[Selion]

TL;DR this sounds bad for your party but in practice, most of the time it's pretty manageable. It wouldn't be my favorite curse for the party Oracle to choose but it's not going to TPK the party every time they leave town either, especially as they climb in levels and the hazards stay static.

Picking your effect selecting the environment would be heavily on the metagame side, my character (assuming i'll pick this curse for real) wouldn't know exactly what it may happen. BTW sleeping away from the party, searching for caves or some kind of shelter in the wilderness to have at least some minor protection from most effects, eventually picking endurance to sleep in armor and to represent higher resistance to lack of sleep, could be indeed funny for a few sessions. His way of living would be similar to Gatsu from berserk, who is assaulted by demons everytime he tries to sleep.

[Psyren]

Picking your effect selecting the environment would be heavily on the metagame side, my character (assuming i'll pick this curse for real) wouldn't know exactly what it may happen.

I don't agree with that - knowing the possible effects would be as easy as knowing what the spell it invokes does, which would be a Knowledge (Religion) and/or Spellcraft check against the spell's DC. And depending on how long you had the curse and where you grew up (some Oracles are cursed during childhood, some later) you might not even need a check, you could simply know from having dealt with it for years. It's not metagaming if there is a plausible way to get the information in-game and your character does that.


BTW sleeping away from the party, searching for caves or some kind of shelter in the wilderness to have at least some minor protection from most effects, eventually picking endurance to sleep in armor and to represent higher resistance to lack of sleep, could be indeed funny for a few sessions. His way of living would be similar to Gatsu from berserk, who is assaulted by demons everytime he tries to sleep.

Yes - I think a 300ft. separation would be far enough to present some interesting situations and make the curse matter mechanically and narratively, but close enough that keeping them in the party for outdoor excursions is still practical.

*party emerges from their tents to view dead bugs littering campsite.*
*Oracle enters clearing with bits of root clinging to his armor*

Party: "So... how was your sle-"
Oracle: "I don't want to talk about it, let's just hurry this up so I can get back to a town, any town."

[Gnaeus]

One more thing. While I am a fan of PC/NPC transparency, that anything they can take, you can take, that means that there absolutely should be options that aren’t optimized for PC play.

If you are a vampire or lich in your hidden lair, this curse is amazing. A bunch of free guards who can’t hurt you. A side effect of withered vegetation for flavor. This is a boon for very specific BBEGs. It is good that game lets you play as “reclusive hermit in the haunted hollow.” Because I really might want this on an NPC. This is a toy for the other side of the screen.

[Psyren]

One more thing. While I am a fan of PC/NPC transparency, that anything they can take, you can take, that means that there absolutely should be options that aren’t optimized for PC play.

If you are a vampire or lich in your hidden lair, this curse is amazing. A bunch of free guards who can’t hurt you. A side effect of withered vegetation for flavor. This is a boon for very specific BBEGs. It is good that game lets you play as “reclusive hermit in the haunted hollow.” Because I really might want this on an NPC. This is a toy for the other side of the screen.

Indeed, several of the creepier Witch, Oracle and Occult options can be more useful in the hands of NPCs/villains.

[Segev]

Get a ton of hirelings. Hundreds. Have them carry tents and yurts and wagons with living spaces inside them. Set up a portable village around you everywhere you go!

[Anxe]

The others have described how this is manageable from a mechanical perspective, but from a roleplaying perspective this is horrifying. NPCs aren't going to want anything to do with your character and players are probably going to have to lean into PC privilege to rationalize being around your character. It's something you should discuss with your group before starting and every few sessions to ensure that expectations are being met.

[Psyren]

One interesting scenario I thought of with this - what happens if you're on a ship? It's not an urban area so the curse should trigger, but you can easily sail 300ft. away from the stationary effect as soon as it spawns and avoid interacting with it entirely.


Get a ton of hirelings. Hundreds. Have them carry tents and yurts and wagons with living spaces inside them. Set up a portable village around you everywhere you go!

Or just take Leadership :smallbiggrin::smalltongue:


The others have described how this is manageable from a mechanical perspective, but from a roleplaying perspective this is horrifying. NPCs aren't going to want anything to do with your character and players are probably going to have to lean into PC privilege to rationalize being around your character. It's something you should discuss with your group before starting and every few sessions to ensure that expectations are being met.

To be fair, it only triggers in the wilderness so NPCs in urban areas may not even know about it. But yeah, the local hermit or druid circle is probably not going to be too fond of you being around.

If there are no friendly NPCs of note in the wilds, i.e. just monsters, this might be a boon in a way. Say you're schlepping through the Underdark and all of a sudden a roving Drow patrol approaching your campsite has to deal with roots randomly grabbing them and their yells wake you up.

[Hellpyre]

One interesting scenario I thought of with this - what happens if you're on a ship? It's not an urban area so the curse should trigger, but you can easily sail 300ft. away from the stationary effect as soon as it spawns and avoid interacting with it entirely.

Unless you've dropped anchor, that probably isn't even something you have to deal with, as the curse terrain doesn't start unless you spend 10 minutes in the same area. Even becalmed, you can have enough drift from currents to move 300 feet in that time.