Weird Saving Throws on Beasts

[No1ofIntrst]

Does anyone know why some monsters (Elephants (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Elephant#content) for example) have odd saving throws? For the elephant, it would (if you use 8 + Prof (2) + Str(6) for DC) has a DC of 16, but in the book, it only has a DC of 12.

[nickl_2000]

Because NPCs cheat.

Part of the challenge rating of NPCs (beast and otherwise) is based on the DC. Since it's an NPC, it doesn't need to follow normal rules.

[stoutstien]

Pretty much the rules for NPCs only roughly follow the rules that PCs do.

my guess is they follow the same guidelines of the players but if they wanted to move it up or down a few points they just did. AC is most common example but as you point out skills and saves happen also.

[CheddarChampion]

I don't think it was intentional that the 'rules' aren't strictly followed.
It might have been a mistake, but it seems more likely to me that whoever put the numbers on there didn't really care about strictly following the 'rules'.

Monster design is pretty weird overall. HD are mostly not tied to any effective proficiency bonuses, and as you point out those are not always consistent on the individual creatures. Finally, IMO, CR is loose at best.

[Mr Adventurer]

NPCs don't follow all the same rules as PCs, and this is intentional. Their roles in the game are hardly interchangeable, after all (main character vs. momentary antagonist).

[MaxWilson]

Does anyone know why some monsters (Elephants (https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Elephant#content) for example) have odd saving throws? For the elephant, it would (if you use 8 + Prof (2) + Str(6) for DC) has a DC of 16, but in the book, it only has a DC of 12.

Although there are patterns in monster abilities, the "official" DMG procedure is to just make up whatever stats (including DCs) you want and then slap an appropriate CR label on it. In this case, whoever wrote the elephant did just that.

If I had to guess why they made an exception I'd say "probably to avoid 'having' to raise the CR."

Will anything in the game break if you raise the DC back to 16 but leave the CR at 4? Probably not. The actual game math is not as sensitive to DCs as the DMG tables pretend, especially for a single-target save gated behind a successful charge attack. All that will happen if you raise the DC is that 20% of elephant charges will knock somebody prone (and then Stomp them afterward as a bonus action) when they otherwise would have failed. Your players will probably never even notice the difference unless they fight a lot of elephants.

[Guy Lombard-O]

If I had to guess why they made an exception I'd say "probably to avoid 'having' to raise the CR."

Will anything in the game break if you raise the DC back to 16 but leave the CR at 4? Probably not. The actual game math is not as sensitive to DCs as the DMG tables pretend, especially for a single-target save gated behind a successful charge attack. All that will happen if you raise the DC is that 20% of elephant charges will knock somebody prone (and then Stomp them afterward as a bonus action) when they otherwise would have failed. Your players will probably never even notice the difference unless they fight a lot of elephants.

I'd agree with your overall assessment, except for when it comes to beasts. Thanks to Polymorph, Conjure Animals and wild shapes on moon druids, I suspect the beasts are balanced (downwards) a little more carefully with the use by PCs in mind.

[MaxWilson]

I'd agree with your overall assessment, except for when it comes to beasts. Thanks to Polymorph, Conjure Animals and wild shapes on moon druids, I suspect the beasts are balanced (downwards) a little more carefully with the use by PCs in mind.

Good point. I don't know if WotC actually considered that but if not they should have. : )