Way of the Wicked: why Mitra sends an army of outsiders and Asmodeous does not?

[Conradine]

I always felt that the "official" ending of WODW is the villain's defeat at the hands of the celestial army of Mitra ( 2 Solars, half a dozen Planetar, to quote the book ).

But my question is: if a deity dares to interfere so heavily in the material plane, shouldn't an enemy deity ( in this situation, Asmodeus ) do the same to counterbalance?

[redking]

Mitra has millions of followers in Talingarde. That means Mitra can manifest spiritual power in a more physical way.

Put it this way. After a century or so of Asmodean rule, you can expect Asmodeus to do the same. But Asmodeus at that point in the story does not have many followers in Talingarde, even if the rulers are Asmodean or required worship of Asmodeus as part of the state religion.

Two solars appearing is the most satisfying scenario if you can actually win the battle. And bringing princess Belinda back in chains and forcing her to marry the Asmodean king is even better (after cursing her to make sure she can't cast spells).

[Crake]

When we played it, I was playing a cleric, and I just consistently cast planar ally, citing "However, if the task is strongly aligned with the creature’s ethos, it may halve or even waive the payment." to basically get free planar ally devils. Had a whole squad of erinyes by the time we were finished with... i think it was chapter 3? So we had just as big an army, though my DM got bored and just cut it off after chapter 4 I think, and said that we won there.

[redking]

When we played it, I was playing a cleric, and I just consistently cast planar ally, citing "However, if the task is strongly aligned with the creature’s ethos, it may halve or even waive the payment." to basically get free planar ally devils. Had a whole squad of erinyes by the time we were finished with... i think it was chapter 3? So we had just as big an army, though my DM got bored and just cut it off after chapter 4 I think, and said that we won there.

The planar allies agreed to be inducted into your army, long term for no payment? According to the SRD, "A long-term task, one requiring up to one day per caster level, requires a payment of 1,000 gp per HD", also, "A nonhazardous task requires only half the indicated payment, while an especially hazardous task might require a greater gift. Few if any creatures will accept a task that seems suicidal (remember, a called creature actually dies when it is killed, unlike a summoned creature). However, if the task is strongly aligned with the creature’s ethos, it may halve or even waive the payment".

I just can't see them doing that long term for no payment. At the final battle against the forces of Mitra, yes - absolutely. Call the planar allies for the final battle, and tell them that Asmodeus will reward them. But having them work long term, no. Not even Mitra is doing that for Belinda.

[Psyren]

Way of the Wicked takes place in a third-party setting where the power (or even existence) of evil deities apparently differs drastically from printed settings like Golarion. While Golarion has complex divine politics that are likely to prevent direct interference by deities, Talingarde may not have such restrictions, or Mitra might just be powerful enough to ignore them.

So the answer to your question is "yeah, they probably should, but the standard rules don't apply in a third-party or made-up setting so all bets are likely off anyway."

[Elricaltovilla]

, but the standard rules don't apply in a third-party or made-up setting so all bets are likely off anyway."

All settings are made up. :smalltongue:

[Crake]

All settings are made up. :smalltongue:

Not if your setting is earth?

[Elricaltovilla]

Not if your setting is earth?

As it is impossible to represent the Earth with 100% accuracy, the setting in such a case would be "a made-up version of Earth on which the events of the story play out."

[Braininthejar2]

Not the whole world, only the island is.

You can actually get envoys from Cheliax.

Either it's all home ground advantage, or the good guys did their own quest chain during the time skip to enable exactly that.

[Psyren]

All settings are made up. :smalltongue:

You're right of course - a more accurate descriptor would be "non-canonical." Talingarde does not actually exist in canon Golarion, so we can't guarantee that the version of Asmodeus that exists in this non-canon version would behave/react the same way (or be subject to the same restrictions/politics) as his canon incarnation. All bets are off in other words - OP's GM is free to make something up.

[Bavarian itP]

As it is impossible to represent the Earth with 100% accuracy

So, real-life-history and geography books are "made-up" according to your definition?

[Elricaltovilla]

So, real-life-history and geography books are "made-up" according to your definition?

How do you make the logical leap from "Fictional stories are definitionally made-up even if they attempt to portray reality as accurately as possible" to "non-fiction texts are fiction"? That's a non-sequitur if I've ever seen one.

[Bavarian itP]

How do you make the logical leap from "Fictional stories are definitionally made-up even if they attempt to portray reality as accurately as possible" to "non-fiction texts are fiction"? That's a non-sequitur if I've ever seen one.

You were not talking about stories, you were talking about settings. You claimed that even a setting "Earth" would be made-up since it would be impossible for the setting to describe Earth with 100% accuracy. I pointed out that every science textbook is "made-up" by that standard.

The non-sequitur is on your side, because now you are backpedaling by claiming you just wanted to say "fictional stories are fictional". Thanks for that insight.

[Elricaltovilla]

You were not talking about stories, you were talking about settings. You claimed that even a setting "Earth" would be made-up since it would be impossible for the setting to describe Earth with 100% accuracy. I pointed out that every science textbook is "made-up" by that standard.

The non-sequitur is on your side, because now you are backpedaling by claiming you just wanted to say "fictional stories are fictional". Thanks for that insight.

No, because you changed the nature of the discussion from fiction to non-fiction. Even if I was not explicit, the context of my point was clear to everyone else to whom I was making my point.

The non-sequitur is that rules for fiction would apply to non-fiction.

[Biguds]

Greetings!

Having played Way of the Wicked for about 4 to 5 years, going with the plot all the way from level 1 to 20, I'm pretty sure that our group had this same thought. Somewhere, the answer was like "Mitra is a god dedicated only to Talingard", and, of course, Asmodeus is a major name in the gods playground.
So, when you see Mitra sending a army of outsiders to deal the heretics and Asmodeus had an old thorny guy, a brimstone-smelling lady and some sponsored adventures, it's actually more like:

Desperate, ancient cleric of Asmodeus start a multi-layered plan to bring the ruin at the kingdom of Talingard and is resisted by an all-out war effort of the local deity, Mitra, his followeres and allies.

So, it's all the forces and powers that Mitra has (defying any non-interference agreement), versus a mastermind an his agents working in the name of Asmodeus.

Also, I don't recall the last battle having all these, can you tell more?

[Bavarian itP]

No, because you changed the nature of the discussion from fiction to non-fiction. Even if I was not explicit, the context of my point was clear to everyone else to whom I was making my point.

The non-sequitur is that rules for fiction would apply to non-fiction.

So, your point is that fictional settings are fictional. Thank you.

[Conradine]

I love, totally LOVE the WotW campaign. But I've problems squaring it with verisimilitude.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

So, it's all the forces and powers that Mitra has (defying any non-interference agreement), versus a mastermind an his agents working in the name of Asmodeus.

That seems the most reasonable explanation. The island is one of Mitra's very few centers of worship so they're going all out to defend it, while the whole conflict is barely on Asmodeus' personal radar.

[Biguds]

Also:

The one pulling the strings of the mastermind is a unique Pit Devil. Strong, but not that strong. And he can help at the last battle too.