Substitute for experience

[tstewt1921]

So in my group, we don't use experience points for our characters, we generally level up whenever the DM sees fit for us leveling. I use this as well as it lets the story unfold more without the players out leveling it quicker since we don't follow a book for our games. We generally add higher gold costs for things that require xp for crafting or things to that extent. What would you put in place as a substitute of xp for a group that doesn't use it?

[the_david]

Wealth by level. It's more old school D&D and it actually results in the party having wealth by level because their wealth is their level. It also means that the players don't have to kill everything that moves. They just have to steal everything of value.

[Vaern]

Even if you're not awarding or tracking XP to level up, you might still give them an amount of XP upon reaching a new level equal to, say, 10-15% of that would normally be required to level up exclusively for crafting purposes. This way they still have the resource available for item creation and the GP cost of magic items isn't affected. As an added bonus to the players, using item creation feats won't set them back from leveling with the rest of the party since this crafting XP is separate from the system you're actually using for leveling.

[Fizban]

Xp costs for crafting are not intended to significantly set anyone back. The actual result they have is that you can't craft very much if you just leveled up (because you can't pay enough xp to go down a level), and after a lot of crafting you'll eventually end up about one encounter behind on xp. The moment you are a different level from the rest of the party, you start gaining more xp, so the gap closes a bit, but depending on how big the chunks are you'll probably never end up precisely caught up (unless you slingshot, which is less likely, but still possible). The bonus is roughly 1/3, so it would take three encounters to make up the difference, but since you're only one encounter behind you immediately level up and lose the bonus- so it would take three levels to fully undo the effect, if you gained xp exactly one equal level encounter at a time. But now that you're only 2/3 of a level-1 encounter behind, it will take some crafting to get more than a full encounter behind again. But you're obviously crafting a lot, so. . .


The easy answer is that if they're crafting stuff all the time, they're permanently one encounter behind the rest of the party on level ups.

[tiercel]

Not using XP isn’t all that different from simply using story awards for XP (a system that’s right in the DMG). By just giving out story XP, you can still use actual XP mechanics when needed (crafting, XP spell components).

But if you’re not using XP at all, it shouldn’t change much — if you don’t do a lot of (or any) crafting or XP- component spells, XP costs could be handwaved away, and certainly the easy option is to just convert any XP cost into an additional-gold cost.

For extra flavor, one could fluff this as “power components” (2e style even, though there are optional power components in 3.5 as I recall which can partially offset XP costs) — the idea being that instead of using your own life force to imbue items with permanent enchantments or cast costly spells, one gets the “extra power” from a dragon tooth, beholder eye, dire rat tail, or whatever. If PCs collect these they are effectively treasure, and if they don’t appear as treasure then they explain where that “extra gold” is going (to purchase the needed extra components for items or spells via Amazonian Prime One-Day Teleport Shipping).

[tyckspoon]

So in my group, we don't use experience points for our characters, we generally level up whenever the DM sees fit for us leveling. I use this as well as it lets the story unfold more without the players out leveling it quicker since we don't follow a book for our games. We generally add higher gold costs for things that require xp for crafting or things to that extent. What would you put in place as a substitute of xp for a group that doesn't use it?

Honestly? Unless your players regularly want to cast Limited Wish/Wish in every fight I'd probably just ignore it.

[Aotrs Commander]

Probably the very easist solution is just to crib the appropriate bits out of Pathfinder, which did away wih XP costs for crafting and such and just uses gold (easily findably on either Archves of Nethys or the PFSRD wiki). The work's basically done for you.

(I have never liked XP as a spell component /crafting source - and to my group it it automatically read as "never use those spells or attempt to craft items ever," so I for one was glad to get shot of it.)

[unseenmage]

DMG2's Transference spell and Pathfinder both replace disposable xp with gold.

[tstewt1921]

I love all of these ideas! Thanks everyone!

[jdizzlean]

my group does the same, we level up whenever, its usually a few sessions at a time before any xp is given out. we long ago stopped caring about gold even, when we want something, and the opportunity presents itself, we just buy it. i think our portable hole has somewhere in the neighborhood of a few hundred thousand gold worth of stuff, and we're lvl 11ish

[StSword]

The Artificer's Handbook has a spellslot item creation system, where instead of spending experience one invests some of their daily spellslots for the length of the item creation.

Or you could borrow an idea from fourth edition with their essence- Magical creatures can have solid hunks of magic harvested from their dead bodies as loot. This solid magic can be sacrificed for item creation or for spells. So it's basically the "spend gold instead of experience" suggestion with some added fluff for flavor.

[Asmotherion]

I'd keep the xp mechanic, just dissasosiate it from level-up mechanics. Exp is a valuable resource, even if level up does not come from it.

You can keep it as it is, or refluff it for your setting. I love refluffing Exp as soul gems from skyrim for example.

[Ken Murikumo]

My current campaign has "milestones" where the party all gains a level when they finish a chapter (or finish a significant event) in the plot.

As others have suggested, some sort of currency could be rewarded for things on an individual basis. Be it straight up gold or some meta-currency.

I use a secondary currency,"scrap", for my campaign. It can be indirectly traded for gold at a reduced value, but can be spent at scrap vendors or junk yards for it's full value in gold (2000 scrap can be spent on 2000 GP worth of items at a scrap vendor). These vendors usually have limited stock, but offer unique items or normal items, used, at a reduced price. I hand out scrap in place of bonus experience at the end of a session for players going above and beyond with participation and roleplaying. It also allows me to hand out arbitrarily high values without giving the player an overwhelming amount. 1000 for attending the session and increments in hundreds for roleplaying bonuses. One player bought a small dropship and had it armored and fully weaponized with his scrap alone.


So far, it's worked pretty well for me and mine.

[DeTess]

When this came up at a table I played at, we simply converted the XP cost to an additional gold cost. I don't quite remember the numbers, but I think it was something like an additional 5 gp in materials per point of XP you'd normally have to spend.

[Clementx]

When this came up at a table I played at, we simply converted the XP cost to an additional gold cost. I don't quite remember the numbers, but I think it was something like an additional 5 gp in materials per point of XP you'd normally have to spend.

I would use the same. It comes down to a 30% discount for self crafting, rather than 50% and being a level behind for a few fights. I would add a restriction kid some kind to prevent long downtimes leading to excessive item creation. Comparable to Eberron's Artificer's crafting reserve?

[Pugwampy]

My very first campaign I ran was players level up every successful 4th combat encounter . Less thinking and more fair .

[Falontani]

Honestly. I like Tael from the World of Prime
Link to thing with purchasable books, IIRC Heroes of Prime is the book that explains what Tael is (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?manufacturers_id=2849)

It is a great choice to remove xp!

[Mordante]

Are there people that do use XP? In both that I'm in XP was never used. We can go on for weeks without combat.

I agree with most people. Just make something more expensive or difficult to do.