How are these soldiers I made?

[danielxcutter]

Statblock (https://docs.google.com/document/d/16gapTxVH8uVGb3ZCQfRTmCDDQPIjt91tUUjJQNK0c7g/edit?usp=sharing)

If it's not obvious, and I suppose it might not really be, the idea is to use several of them to form a shield wall in front of the casters - say, a Cleric prepares an action to use Downdraft on PCs that try to fly over the shield wall, and the other casters use other spells from higher ground behind the phalanx fighters, or something like that.

When I was making them, I was thinking about a large party of about half a dozen 12th-level PCs? Maybe one or two 9th-level casters and a higher-level caster closer to the PC's level? How many phalanx fighters, I wonder... I don't really have a specific scenario to use them in yet, I just wonder how to, and if they're decent enough to use.

[Allanimal]

Their stats are a lot better than the elite array, in fact a pretty high point buy, if I’m counting correctly.
That means they will be better than typical CR8 monsters, so factor this into your difficulty calculations.

[danielxcutter]

Their stats are a lot better than the elite array, in fact a pretty high point buy, if I’m counting correctly.
That means they will be better than typical CR8 monsters, so factor this into your difficulty calculations.

I know, but this is intended for a party that uses the same point-buy as they do, so I figured it's be roughly even.

[Aotrs Commander]

Always have a ranged option (even if its just a couple of javelins or something - Roman style would likely fit with what you're going for), and its usually a good idea for them to at least carry a back-up weapon because disarm or stun or something (javelin would do both, as would dagger).

[danielxcutter]

Always have a ranged option (even if its just a couple of javelins or something - Roman style would likely fit with what you're going for), and its usually a good idea for them to at least carry a back-up weapon because disarm or stun or something (javelin would do both, as would dagger).

Hmm... well, I can see what you mean, and I suppose expecting the casters to take care of it is a bit much(even if "take care" is stuff like Telekinesis or Downdraft to bring them right back in front of the line). Okay... would 5 javelins per Phalanx Fighter be enough? And reduce the GP they each have by 5 GP...

[Aotrs Commander]

Hmm... well, I can see what you mean, and I suppose expecting the casters to take care of it is a bit much(even if "take care" is stuff like Telekinesis or Downdraft to bring them right back in front of the line). Okay... would 5 javelins per Phalanx Fighter be enough? And reduce the GP they each have by 5 GP...

3-5 would be plenty, it's back-up. It's just that, as a wise hobbit once said, if you haven't got it, you shall want it.

[Lilapop]

hp 52 (8 HD)
[...]
Abilities Str 20, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8


Those hitpoints seem off. Fighter has d10, average 5.5, +3 from constitution, x8 makes 68.

While 24 AC and 18 touch AC are certainly not bad at ECL 8, they are about the extent of these guys' specialties. No reach, no other AoO improvements and relatively slow movespeed means they have to essentially break formation to stop anybody moving around, and their will saves are (stereotypically) atrocious. If you're planning to back them up with casters, what buffs do you have in mind?

I wouldn't skip defining their skill build. Balance, Tumble and Sense Motive could easily be called for by player actions.

[danielxcutter]

3-5 would be plenty, it's back-up. It's just that, as a wise hobbit once said, if you haven't got it, you shall want it.

Fair enough.


Those hitpoints seem off. Fighter has d10, average 5.5, +3 from constitution, x8 makes 68.

Okay, fixing the hit points. Thanks for catching that.


While 24 AC and 18 touch AC are certainly not bad at ECL 8, they are about the extent of these guys' specialties. No reach, no other AoO improvements and relatively slow movespeed means they have to essentially break formation to stop anybody moving around, and their will saves are (stereotypically) atrocious. If you're planning to back them up with casters, what buffs do you have in mind?

First of all, Phalanx Fighting's second ability when in shield wall formation isn't accounted for in the statblock; this is the stats for a single soldier.

The casters... well, I was thinking about adding at least two - possibly more - and maybe four or so of the phalanx fighters in a shield wall. At least one of them should be capable of using spells that prevent melee combatants from just flying straight over the shield wall - I'm thinking Downdraft, maybe. One arcanist and one divine spellcaster plus a couple of archers on slightly higher ground in the rear line was what I was thinking.

As for actual buffs, Haste is always a great choice. Mass Conviction helps a bit with the saves, as does Magic Circle Against Chaos/Good. Hmm, maybe throw in a Bard and have them use Inspire Courage. Maybe Recitation? I was thinking "tyrannical war god" on the lines of Hextor or Bane when I first got the idea for them.

Oh, and it's not just going to be buffs that the casters are going to be throwing, of course. Mass Snake's Swiftness(on the soldiers) and Mass Impending Blades(on the PCs) for starters. Also various BFC, save-or-Xes, blasting et al.


I wouldn't skip defining their skill build. Balance, Tumble and Sense Motive could easily be called for by player actions.

Hmm... well, exchanging Ride for Tumble via Skilled City-Dweller sounds right. Might as well swap Handle Animal for Gather Information, and ranks in Jump for the synergy bonus as well. Intimidate isn't going to be a big strength for them, but it'll be better than nothing... Oh I dunno, and Climb I guess. Skillmonkeys these ain't.

[Crake]

Those hitpoints seem off. Fighter has d10, average 5.5, +3 from constitution, x8 makes 68.

Additionally, elite NPCs who use PC classes get full hp at 1st level, the same as players, so it should actually be 72hp.


I know, but this is intended for a party that uses the same point-buy as they do, so I figured it's be roughly even.

By my calculations, they're using 38 point buy? Just sanity checking, if that's what your players use, all good

16 base strength +2 from levels, +2 from gauntlets, 16 dex, 16 con, 14 int, 10 wis, 8 cha = 10+10+10+6+2+0

Taking some feats to get iron guard's glare might also help, if they're all in that stance, then it's almost a guaranteed +4 AC for anyone trying to attack them in melee. But I feel like some way to work together for attacks would be nice as well, rather than just going all in on defense.

[danielxcutter]

Additionally, elite NPCs who use PC classes get full hp at 1st level, the same as players, so it should actually be 72hp.

Where is that spelled out? I'm pretty sure I missed out on something.


By my calculations, they're using 38 point buy? Just sanity checking, if that's what your players use, all good

16 base strength +2 from levels, +2 from gauntlets, 16 dex, 16 con, 14 int, 10 wis, 8 cha = 10+10+10+6+2+0

Uh... no? You've added six points to many from somewhere.


Taking some feats to get iron guard's glare might also help, if they're all in that stance, then it's almost a guaranteed +4 AC for anyone trying to attack them in melee. But I feel like some way to work together for attacks would be nice as well, rather than just going all in on defense.

Nah, trying to stay away from ToB for them.

[Crake]

Where is that spelled out? I'm pretty sure I missed out on something.

Page 110 of the DMG, elite and average characters: "Elite characters (whether they are PCs or not) have above-average ability scores and automatically get maximum hit points from their first Hit Die."


Uh... no? You've added six points to many from somewhere.

Well, those are the ability scores you have, the most generous level up point placement, and the magic items you've got listed. If you wanted 32 point buy, I'm not sure how you arrived at those end scores. I'm assuming 3.5 point buy, and 3.5 humans (so no +2 ability score like in pathfinder), since phalance fighting is a 3.5 feat?


Nah, trying to stay away from ToB for them.

That's fair enough, I swear there's a feat somewhere that allows you to key attacks off other people with the same feat or something though.

[danielxcutter]

Page 110 of the DMG, elite and average characters: "Elite characters (whether they are PCs or not) have above-average ability scores and automatically get maximum hit points from their first Hit Die."

Oh yeah, I must have missed that.


Well, those are the ability scores you have, the most generous level up point placement, and the magic items you've got listed. If you wanted 32 point buy, I'm not sure how you arrived at those end scores. I'm assuming 3.5 point buy, and 3.5 humans (so no +2 ability score like in pathfinder), since phalance fighting is a 3.5 feat?

Uh, why did you calculate physical stats as starting at 6 while calculating mental stats as starting at 8 then?


That's fair enough, I swear there's a feat somewhere that allows you to key attacks off other people with the same feat or something though.

That too but... I don't think I really need to change the feats that much?

[Crake]

Uh, why did you calculate physical stats as starting at 6 while calculating mental stats as starting at 8 then?

15 and 16 cost 2 points to buy each, not 1 point.

[Allanimal]

For the OP: check p.169 of the DMG for the standard point buy costs.
I’m pretty sure pathfinder is different, but you seem to be talking about 3.5 feats so I’m assuming 3.5

If you aren’t using the standard point buy costs, that is fine. But make sure the Players built their PCs in the way you expected.

[danielxcutter]

15 and 16 cost 2 points to buy each, not 1 point.


For the OP: check p.169 of the DMG for the standard point buy costs.
I’m pretty sure pathfinder is different, but you seem to be talking about 3.5 feats so I’m assuming 3.5

If you aren’t using the standard point buy costs, that is fine. But make sure the Players built their PCs in the way you expected.

...Oh. Well, I didn't know that. Serves me for learning most of my rule knowledge from the SRD.