Intimidation as an attack

[mictrepanier]

There is lack of parameters for this skill, especially in combat. Other games like TORG and HERO has better integration in combat.

house rules:

Intimidation modifiers

For every person affected after the first -2
Target has resistance to charm, compulsion, frightened: disadvantage

Effect: Grant disadvantage a ability (including skill and combat) rolls for Charisma Bonus rounds (min 1)

Follow-up effect:

Presence attack (non magical, based on vicious mockery cantrip loosely, better if psionics is not used)

Presence attack
Activation Time: 1 action
Prerequisite: Intimidate skill proficiency.
Range: 60 feet
Components: V or S
Duration: Instantaneous
Your gaze or words may remove any mental endurance from
at a creature you can see within range. If
the target can hear or see you (though it need not understand
you), it must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or take
1d6 psychic (non-lethal) damage, plus damage equals to any Charisma modifier. An intimidated creature
has a disadvantage to the roll.
Reduce health to 0 cause target to become helpless and demoralized, unable to concentrate,
but still conscious. Healing to 1p will remove the stunned condition.

For those liking strong-willed heroes instead of sneaky rogues:

Mental knife
Beginning at 1st level, you know how to mentally strike subtly
and exploit a foe’s distraction. Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to presence attack
to one creature you hit that is intimidated. You don’t need this if another enemy o f the target is
within 5 feet o f it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on
the attack roll. The amount of the extra damage increases as you gain levels in this class, as shown in the mental knife column o f the Strong-willed hero table (based on rogue sneak attack).

(I consider changing rogues for a new WS and INT based class, like the Strong-willed generic class like found in 3.5 modern d20) :

Modified rogue:

1) Replace Dx by WS saves, slippery mind (extra WS save) at 15th replaces by a DX save
2) Remove Thief cant, replaced by another language.
3) Replace sneak attack by mental knife
4) Evasion is based on INT saves, not DX

For the roguish archetypes: inquisitive, mastermind and other homebrew archetypes....

[Guy Lombard-O]

There is lack of parameters for this skill, especially in combat. Other games like TORG and HERO has better integration in combat.

house rules:

Intimidation modifiers

For every person affected after the first -2
Target has resistance to charm, compulsion, frightened: disadvantage

Effect: Grant disadvantage a ability (including skill and combat) rolls for Charisma Bonus rounds (min 1)


I don't think I'm following you here. Are you saying that the PC makes a separate Intimidation roll for multiple people at the same time? Or multiple Intimidation roll attempts against different people in the same turn? Aren't you just setting a DC based upon the targets' numbers, the situation, and the PC's actions/words? Or is the PC saying different things to multiple targets in the same round?

Also, it's unclear if you're granting disadvantage to all ability rolls (skill checks, attacks and saves I guess), or just those based upon Charisma (I think that's what you mean, but the wording is bad and confusing). Either way, 1 minute is very long. And this effect will be very powerful. This is saving throw territory here, but you're not granting them a new one each round. So I'd definitely avoid playing any Charisma-based class in your game, since 1 successful Intimidation check against them will basically nerf them for a whole combat. This would be a fairly solid leveled spell, I'd say. Letting folks do it at-will with a skill check seems...unwise.


Follow-up effect:

Presence attack (non magical, based on vicious mockery cantrip loosely, better if psionics is not used)

Presence attack
Activation Time: 1 action
Prerequisite: Intimidate skill proficiency.
Range: 60 feet
Components: V or S
Duration: Instantaneous
Your gaze or words may remove any mental endurance from
at a creature you can see within range. If
the target can hear or see you (though it need not understand
you), it must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or take
1d6 psychic (non-lethal) damage, plus damage equals to any Charisma modifier. An intimidated creature
has a disadvantage to the roll.
Reduce health to 0 cause target to become helpless and demoralized, unable to concentrate,
but still conscious. Healing to 1p will remove the stunned condition.

Well, considering that Vicious Mockery is a Bard spell, and bards are high-charisma characters who can rock Intimidate anyhow, and seeing as how this is strictly better than the spell (1d4 damage vs. 1d6+Cha damage w/saving throw at disadvantage), I think you just replaced the spell entirely and gave it a serious upgrade.

You've also just created a whole new condition in the game: 0 HP but conscious. That's going to have a lot of unaddressed consequences in the game, with lots of rules which will interact in unforeseen ways with your new condition. You then go on to say that they're subject to the "stunned condition". Which is a condition all its own, but doesn't normally apply to people who have zero HP.

For instance, what happens to a zero-HP-but-conscious target that then takes 1 HP of damage? Do they die like normal (assuming you aren't using death saves for every monster)? That's what generally would happen to a creature reduced to 1 HP via non-lethal damage. Is that your intent? How would this new condition interact with the Sleep spell?

It's an interesting idea, but I think it would create far more (and bigger) problems than it attempts to solve.

[mictrepanier]

Good reply.


You've also just created a whole new condition in the game: 0 HP but conscious.

it is not a spell. It is a way for a rogue to damage with mere presence. I think it should be reserved for a modified rogue class (or with a feat: intimidation + presence attack + 1 ST or CH).

Usually, for decades people around me house-rule that 0 HP is merely unconscious, not dying- so no death save.
Raising to 1 HP, like raising from a regular unconscious condition, remove the helpless condition: stunned instead of unconscious.


For instance, what happens to a zero-HP-but-conscious target that then takes 1 HP of damage?

Of course! D&d is not realistic. A 0 HP character has no stamina left. 1 hit is enough to kill her.


How would this new condition interact with the Sleep spell?
A regular save is required (it is not a ST or DX-based save).