Is the Frenzy Barbarian a Powerhouse now?

[Teaguethebean]

With the class feature variants UA being released people have been talking about how effective the ranger has become but could the new ranger be the one trick needed to make a berserker a force to be reckoned with? The focus is on getting concentration free hunters marks allowing 3 attacks because of frenzy and more importantly the feature tireless. 1d10+2 or 3 temporary hitpoints is effectively twice as good with rage and getting rid of exaustion on a short rest practically removes the entire downside of frenzy making it feel more like a once or twice per short rest feature than the once per long rest it is forced to be.

Is this the fix we needed granted in a rather back handed manner? Please tell me what you wonderful people think.

[Hytheter]

Hunter's Mark with Frenzy sounds good, but the problem is it takes a bonus action for Hunter's Mark and another for Rage, so you aren't even benefiting from Frenzy until turn 3. And if your target drops, that's another BA lost to transfer it. The bonus action is too cluttered to be truly effective IMO. If you can get the spell off in advance things get considerably better, but that's not a given.

Short Rest exhaustion healing *is* pretty good though, and the THP thing is cool too. Definitely makes a decent patch to the subclass.

[micahaphone]

It's a decent patch, but I think that in combat, waiting until turn 3 before you're properly online is still an indictment against the viability of it. I would love for Beserker to get some sort of short rest exhaustion recovery, or the ability to recover multiple levels of exhaustion per long rest. Multiclassing shouldn't be the patch to one subclass, especially one whose best features come online at higher levels.

[GlenSmash!]

Competition for Bonus Action is a valid concern.

It's still pretty good if you Cast Hunter's Mark first round and use Ranged attacks, then switch to melee after you Frenzy.

[DarknessEternal]

Where's tireless coming from?

[MaxWilson]

Where's tireless coming from?

From UA: https://media.wizards.com/2019/dnd/downloads/UA-ClassFeatures.pdf

It's a Ranger level 1 option in UA:

Tireless

As an action, you can give yourself a number of
temporary hit points equal to 1d10 + your
Wisdom modifier. You can use this special action
a number of times equal to your Wisdom
modifier (a minimum of once), and you regain all
expended uses when you finish a long rest.
In addition, whenever you finish a short rest,
your exhaustion level, if any, is decreased by 1.

So yeah, this thread isn't about the game as currently published, it's speculation about what it could become in future books.

[Speely]

It's a workaround, sure, but as has been said, I don't think it's super-great. Action economy means that you are chasing a thing that will come online at the end of many fights. Good for big bads, though, but even then there is an argument for what you could be doing in the previous rounds to make the fight last less rounds.

The new UA Ranger options are awesome though. I really like them

As for Berserkers, I always thought the idea of letting them reduce Exhaustion via short rests by spending HD was a good option: during your short rest, roll a number of hit dice that are then reduced from your total available for regaining HP and add the totals. Reduce one level of Exhaustion per 8 points rolled. Go big or go dead rather than go big then go limp.

[da newt]

It certainly would make ranger a good 1 lvl dip for a Berserker to counter the exhaustion, but Hunter's Mark probably won't help much due to the bonus action cost / efficiency issue.

Round 1 BA = Rage
Round 2 BA = HM
Round 3 BA = extra attack
and when you kill something, it's a BA to move HM to a new target

You're probably better off skipping HM entirely.

Also how much more does an extra attack give you vs PAM and any other subclass?

I'm not so sure - someone smart would have to do all the maths ...

[DarknessEternal]

Can't cast while raging.

[Teaguethebean]

Can't cast while raging.

You do it before and with the ranger feature it isn't concentration.

[zinycor]

Am soon to play a similar build (ranger 1/barbarian X) and I considered it, but I think HM should be left to combats where you don't plan to rage, unless you think a particular combat will be very long and/or you get a chance to cast HM before combat starts, saving you a turn.

But as a general advice, I would normally not cast HM and rage on the same combat.

[MaxWilson]

With the class feature variants UA being released people have been talking about how effective the ranger has become but could the new ranger be the one trick needed to make a berserker a force to be reckoned with? The focus is on getting concentration free hunters marks allowing 3 attacks because of frenzy and more importantly the feature tireless. 1d10+2 or 3 temporary hitpoints is effectively twice as good with rage and getting rid of exaustion on a short rest practically removes the entire downside of frenzy making it feel more like a once or twice per short rest feature than the once per long rest it is forced to be.

Is this the fix we needed granted in a rather back handed manner? Please tell me what you wonderful people think.

Fundamentally the issue here is that there are lots of ways to get a bonus action attack if you're already attacking, and Frenzy is too expensive both in terms of build choices and action economy and exhaustion. The UA Ranger dip would partly mitigate the exhaustion issue but in games with feats it's still better and more efficient to just pick up the Polearm Master feat, and in games without feats you might as well just be a spellcaster.