Things You Never Noticed VII: Wait, This Isnt the MitD Thread?

[TheWombatOfDoom]

This is a thread for posting anything and everything you might have not noticed your first time around, or even consecutive readings in the Order of the Stick Comic series! This could be a small realization like that Belkar has hair on his head and feet, or a huge revelation of some sort. Big or Small, we'd love to hear from you! Needless to say, there's gonna be spoilers if you aren't up to date.

Previous Threads:

Things You Never Noticed I (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?128211-Things-you-never-noticed)
Things You Never Noticed II: I Never Noticed the First Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?203505-Things-you-never-noticed-II-I-never-noticed-the-first-thread)
Things You Never Noticed III: The Search for Spot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?261108-Things-You-Never-Noticed-III-The-Search-for-Spot)
Things You Never Noticed IV: There's A Comic in the Sidebar? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?350251-Things-You-Never-Noticed-IV-There-s-A-Comic-in-the-Sidebar)
Things You Never Noticed V: Your Familiar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?452875-Things-You-Never-Noticed-V-Your-Familiar)
Things You Never Noticed VI: The Undiscovered Detail (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?567103-Things-You-Never-Noticed-VI-The-Undiscovered-Detail)

[Rogar Demonblud]

Durkon is acrophobic, given both his expression in the Wind Walk in book 4 and the end of the last bonus strip in book 6.

[Ruck]

Durkon is acrophobic, given both his expression in the Wind Walk in book 4 and the end of the last bonus strip in book 6.

Which may be explained by the first strip of book 6.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Question Mark

Punctuation I decided on, as starter of the thread. :smallwink:

[Ron Miel]

Durkon is acrophobic, given both his expression in the Wind Walk in book 4 and the end of the last bonus strip in book 6.

Also #887 panel 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0887.html). The others know him well enough to incorporate his fear of heights into their shared illusion.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well, they probably noticed how unhappy he was getting on the carpet back at Bleedingham.

[Zyzzyva]

In comic 1179 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1179.html), the two priestesses holding up the shower curtain are the priestess of Hermod (in a blindfold) and of Hoder (who is blind). Nice touch for privacy.

[danielxcutter]

In comic 1179 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1179.html), the two priestesses holding up the shower curtain are the priestess of Hermod (in a blindfold) and of Hoder (who is blind). Nice touch for privacy.

Also one of the high priests playing cards with the high priest of Loki is the HPoFreyr, and Freyr is the God of Prosperity, who voted No since "there's no profit without a little risk". Makes sense he'd be willing to take a risk by playing with a priest of Loki, eh?

And speaking of votes, the only votes that actively suck in #999 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html) are Fenrir, Balder, and Njord - all the others have at least some reasoning.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Fenrir's makes sense. He likes killing, so let's get the killing started.

[CriticalFailure]

And Njord wanted to try a new coastline.

[danielxcutter]

Fenrir's makes sense. He likes killing, so let's get the killing started.


And Njord wanted to try a new coastline.

Well "sense" as in "not entirely apathetic to the mortals", really.

[bc56]

In comic 1179 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1179.html), the two priestesses holding up the shower curtain are the priestess of Hermod (in a blindfold) and of Hoder (who is blind). Nice touch for privacy.

I feel like it would have been a better idea to use the priest of Vafthrudnir instead of the priestess of Hermod. The god of secrets can probably be trusted with people's privacy.
Unless he's one of those gods who sell secrets.

[danielxcutter]

I feel like it would have been a better idea to use the priest of Vafthrudnir instead of the priestess of Hermod. The god of secrets can probably be trusted with people's privacy.
Unless he's one of those gods who sell secrets.

Yeah, but he's a dude. Besides, if this was being 100% logical then they wouldn't have the high priestess of Njord being used as an impromptu shower head. :smalltongue:

[bc56]

Yeah, but he's a dude. Besides, if this was being 100% logical then they wouldn't have the high priestess of Njord being used as an impromptu shower head. :smalltongue:

Very true.
They have a tub, it seems like baths would be a lot easier to do than showers.

[Rogar Demonblud]

So how many of you also didn't notice that the HPoNjord is also blindfolded?

[Synesthesy]

I have never noticed that this isn't the MitD thread!


Someone must say that sooner or later.

[danielxcutter]

Is the name of this thread too long for it to hyperlink properly to the new post? Looks like that's happening to me...

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Is the name of this thread too long for it to hyperlink properly to the new post? Looks like that's happening to me...

I think it’s because of the apostrophe. Guess that’s something about hyperlinks you didn’t notice before. :smalltongue:

[Grey Watcher]

What may or may not be some light foreshadowing:

Read panels 2 and 3 here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0729.html) and then the last page and a half of this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0880.html).

[Quizatzhaderac]

Very true.
They have a tub, it seems like baths would be a lot easier to do than showers.And now I remembered that there's no drain in the floor.

[danielxcutter]

I just noticed that hyperlinks to new posts work now! Thanks Wombat!

[Jannoire]

Which may be explained by the first strip of book 6.

After reading it, I noticed something else...

Why in the unholy Hel did this dwarf climb on that ladder? It's not secured and it doesn't lead anywhere... It's like he was just there to provide the scene...

[Peelee]

After reading it, I noticed something else...

Why in the unholy Hel did this dwarf climb on that ladder? It's not secured and it doesn't lead anywhere... It's like he was just there to provide the scene...

It leads to a ledge (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0947.html), which he is presumably trying to get on. The panel showing him falling doesn't have that, but that could be an art mistake.

[Jannoire]

Not something I never noticed before, but something that bugs me out EVERYTIME I read it...

In #297, when Roy gets his sword reforged, the blacksmith talks about 'a green aura that's harmful to undead'. She then starts to talk about counteracting it... Why would anyone want to counteract this?

[danielxcutter]

Not something I never noticed before, but something that bugs me out EVERYTIME I read it...

In #297, when Roy gets his sword reforged, the blacksmith talks about 'a green aura that's harmful to undead'. She then starts to talk about counteracting it... Why would anyone want to counteract this?

Probably because right before that, Roy was like "oh not another unforeseen side effect of something that would have been otherwise entirely positive". When he realizes he was wrong, he quickly changes his tune.

[Schroeswald]

Not something I never noticed before, but something that bugs me out EVERYTIME I read it...

In #297, when Roy gets his sword reforged, the blacksmith talks about 'a green aura that's harmful to undead'. She then starts to talk about counteracting it... Why would anyone want to counteract this?

I think that it’s because it’s not just undead, only particularly, while we never see it it is possible that it is also harmful to Roy and so you might want to not get that.

[danielxcutter]

I think that it’s because it’s not just undead, only particularly, while we never see it it is possible that it is also harmful to Roy and so you might want to not get that.

Are undead universally considered evil, super bad things in the OotSverse? I presume so, considering that outside of the Godsmoot, undead are treated with hostility at best by most people.

[Peelee]

Not something I never noticed before, but something that bugs me out EVERYTIME I read it...

In #297, when Roy gets his sword reforged, the blacksmith talks about 'a green aura that's harmful to undead'. She then starts to talk about counteracting it... Why would anyone want to counteract this?

Maybe the blacksmith is neutral and doesn't judge.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It would be an alteration to how the sword previously worked, where Roy wanted it restored to original condition. Simple miscommunication of expectations.

[artstsym]

Seems obvious, but it's the sort of foreshadowing you can't keep in mind waiting for releases week to week: Durkon begins formulating his plan to oust Durkula in panel 25 of #963. I always just thought that was a comedic pause, but he's internalizing that the vampire can't recognize connections between his memories, and pivots to a joke on the spot so he can figure out what to do with the single weakness he's discovered.

[ijuinkun]

Not something I never noticed before, but something that bugs me out EVERYTIME I read it...

In #297, when Roy gets his sword reforged, the blacksmith talks about 'a green aura that's harmful to undead'. She then starts to talk about counteracting it... Why would anyone want to counteract this?

For stealth, perhaps? A green glow would make the sword highly visible, which would be counter-productive if the sword-wielder is trying to avoid being noticed prior to striking.

[Fyraltari]

As a purveyor of service it’s not her job to assume what her consumer wants or doesn’t want. The glow is an unintended side-effect of her work, it’s her job to tell him what can be done about that. Whether something should be done is his decision to make, not hers.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Or maybe the issue is that it was glowing green and not blue. Azure City, remember.

[Jasdoif]

Or maybe the issue is that it was glowing green and not blue. Azure City, remember.Yeah, I think you'd have to head out to Olive Isthmus for that to be popular.

[ByzantiumBhuka]

I just noticed that in comic #889, when the party breaks free from the phantasm, the chaotic members of the Order don't have much trouble adjusting to the leap, while Lawful Roy wakes up with a headache. That's pretty consistent with something that Girard would program into the phantasm.

[Bedinsis]

Not so much never noticed as never made the connection, but:

In page #913 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0913.html) Tarquin starts off by offering Elan assistance, an assistance he rejects.

By the end of the page Nale, his other son, has made it clear that he does not want his assistance.

In other words, both his sons reject his assistance on the same page.

[onigame]

Seems obvious, but it's the sort of foreshadowing you can't keep in mind waiting for releases week to week: Durkon begins formulating his plan to oust Durkula in panel 25 of #963. I always just thought that was a comedic pause, but he's internalizing that the vampire can't recognize connections between his memories, and pivots to a joke on the spot so he can figure out what to do with the single weakness he's discovered.

And you didn't mention this explicitly, but part of the subtle hinting that confirms this is how Durkon emphasizes the word "somethin'", meaning that he's noticed that his memories are capable of influencing the vampire's -- since the vampire otherwise would have said "something" instead of "somethin'".

Tha's something' I din' notice 'til I read this strip tha third time.

[onigame]

On strip #1044 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1044.html) Bandana mentions "Passage Pass", which is redundant because "Pass" and "Passage" mean the same thing. What I only noticed on the second read-through is that she mentions "Fissure Gap", which is exactly the same thing. In real life, people wouldn't name things redundantly like that. Except the River Avon, or the La Brea Tar Pits, or Table Mesa... okay, fine, I guess it only happens if you're in the Milky Way Galaxy.

[Peelee]

On strip #1044 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1044.html) Bandana mentions "Passage Pass", which is redundant because "Pass" and "Passage" mean the same thing. What I only noticed on the second read-through is that she mentions "Fissure Gap", which is exactly the same thing.

Most names in Stickworld are like that. For example, the Wooden Forest (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0150.html). IIRC, the intent was to make Stickworld a paper-thin world such that it could reflect any sort of campaign or game.

[Fyraltari]

The death-worm was about (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1164.html) to parrot Grubwigler (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0980.html).

[Ruck]

The death-worm was about (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1164.html) to parrot Grubwigler (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0980.html).

Meanwhile, I just noticed that Durkon tells Kandro in #1165 that he cannot stay long, but in the next strip it's Kandro who leaves us.

[Rollin]

I can't believe this never occurred to me before, but in #1177, when Thor says of Durkon, "Now it's time for me to put my faith in you," he's addressing a stone statue which he knows can, itself, neither help nor hear him. The role reversal is more complete than I'd realized.

[onigame]

In Strip #1139 (only in the book), there's a smaller fainter memorial that is in *front* of a larger one. Probably just a layering issue by Rich, but it's fun to think that maybe there was a world created on the side.

EDIT: Actually it does appear in the on-line strip too, now that I look closer: http://weihwa.com/~whuang/imgs/overlay.png

[Ron Miel]

I'm not sure which one you're talking about. There's many instances of a small memorial in front of a larger one, and several in that clipping alone. We can conclude that memorials are different sizes.

[hroþila]

So, we know that Hel didn't get a vote before the current Godsmoot, which had an even number of votes. We also know that the demigods have voted in previous Godsmoots. Further, we know the demigods only vote in case of a tie. This probably means that gods can and have abstained in previous votes, either by explicitly voting Abstain or by not showing up at the Godsmoot. While it's possible that one high priest or another failed to make it to previous Godsmoots in time, that doesn't sound like the kind of thing that would happen often enough for people to be familiar with Dvalin's MO. If this reasoning is correct, the fact that no one abstained illustrates how serious this vote was.

I find this as interesting as completely inconsequential.

[danielxcutter]

Eh, probably just didn’t end in a tie back then.

[hroþila]

Eh, probably just didn’t end in a tie back then.
But if there's no tie among the full-fledged gods, the demigods don't vote at all.

[Lord Torath]

But if there's no tie among the full-fledged gods, the demigods don't vote at all.Which is why they don't usually bother showing up. But yes, that does imply the ties do happen with some frequency, but certainly not often.

[hroþila]

Which is why they don't usually bother showing up. But yes, that does imply the ties do happen with some frequency, but certainly not often.
Right, but what I'm saying is that with an odd number of Northern gods before Hel had a high priest, those ties mean abstaining is a possibility.

[Ortho]

Something I've never noticed: the borders of 339 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0339.html) and 340 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0340.html) are off-white. They don't quite match up with the webpage's background.

(Admittedly, this might just be a glitch or an art error, but it's only showing up for these two strips.)

[ti'esar]

It's probably a minor glitch with the site rework. I'm pretty sure they weren't like that before.

[Peelee]

If building my last stormtrooper costume has taught me anything, it's that there are a billion shades of white, and absolutely none of them match the shade you need them to.

[CriticalFailure]

I just saw an amazing youtube video of an artist I like playing kazoo better than I knew kazoo could be played. Maybe Elan taking Perform (Kazoo) wouldn't be bad after all.

[Hekko]

In 0196 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0196.html) Xykon says that the five adventures other than Serini built strongholds to protect the Gates. It seems he was unaware that Kraagor had died. It's perfectly possible he simply didn't read the corresponding part of the diary with enough attention, but it makes me wonder what else, possibly more important, he overlooked, and whether Red Cloak studied the diary with more vigilance.

[dsollen]

This is more of a "always bothers me when I read the comic" but the joke here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html) about an animal companion being hung like a bear always distracts me because bears really aren't 'hung'. They are actually pretty tiny relative to their body size.

No I'm not certain why I know that particular fact so well that it's the first thing that comes to mind each time I read that strip, I feel like it's a line of questioning best not followed..

Also I now notice that he mentions he has to work to gain a level of Expert. I didn't know at the time, but the standard joke over on the Class and Level Geekery page is to presume everyone is an Expert; finally they get to actually classify someone as one.

[Ron Miel]

This is more of a "always bothers me when I read the comic" but the joke here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0571.html) about an animal companion being hung like a bear always distracts me because bears really aren't 'hung'. They are actually pretty tiny relative to their body size.

And I just noticed in the same panel that the Oracle says 'him' twice.

"... I tell him him yes ..."

[Elenna]

Not sure if you can say "never noticed" about the most recent comic, but someone pointed out in the discussion thread for 1199 that Mr. Scruffy is angry, so I went back to look at that a second time. And yet I didn't notice until my third reread today that he's not just making angry eyebrows, he's also meowing at Roy. :smallbiggrin:

[Schroeswald]

Belkar is playing with Mr. Scruffy in strip 379 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0379.html), foreshadowing(?) the fact that he ends up being his owner.

[Lord Torath]

I never noticed that Miko rides bareback (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0375.html).

The Order uses saddles (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0141.html) (well, except for Belkar (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0140.html)). Hinjo has one for Argent (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0432.html). Heck, even the demon roach (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0451.html) uses a saddle.

Xykon doesn't (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0430.html), giving him another thing in common with Miko (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0372.html).

[danielxcutter]

Didn’t notice the Death Knight tore off his robe here. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0436.html)

[Lord Torath]

Didn’t notice the Death Knight tore off his robe here. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0436.html)And yet again, the unholy abomination rides bare-back.

No saddles for the allosauruses (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0923.html), but the raptors get them. I can't tell about the Pteranadons (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0921.html), but I'm inclined to say "no." I thought Tarquin's had saddlebags, but it was just an emergency pouch (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0863.html). But the triceratops (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0926.html) used a saddle, and the Patagotitan (https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2017/08/is-this-really-the-biggest-dinosaur-ever-discovered/536187/)-sized brontosaurus (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0814.html) had a howda.

[Oddstar]

On strip #1044 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1044.html) Bandana mentions "Passage Pass", which is redundant because "Pass" and "Passage" mean the same thing. What I only noticed on the second read-through is that she mentions "Fissure Gap", which is exactly the same thing. In real life, people wouldn't name things redundantly like that. Except the River Avon, or the La Brea Tar Pits, or Table Mesa... okay, fine, I guess it only happens if you're in the Milky Way Galaxy.
Yeah, that's actually pretty common in the real world: Nile and Indus both mean river; Mississippi means big river; Rhine and Rhone both mean flow, i.e., river. The Sahara and the Arabian Deserts are both technically the Desert Desert. Alps means mountains. A lot of the names of geographic features started out as common nouns. I just figured that the people in the Stickverse don't speak English, and the software that Burlew has been using to translate their language into English doesn't recognize place-names as proper nouns, so it just translates them literally.

On topic, I only noticed that the flag of Gobbotopia in 702 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0702.html) has a brown star for the bugbears after I read 1038 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1038.html).

[danielxcutter]

...Huh. The green star is the goblins, the orange star the hobgoblins, and the purple one TDO then. Neat.

[Mariele]

On topic, I only noticed that the flag of Gobbotopia in 702 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0702.html) has a brown star for the bugbears after I read 1038 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1038.html).
I never noticed this either!

Rereading some of the archive today, and this is a small one, but I only just now noticed that it was Blackwing talking in panel 3 of #903 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0903.html). I always thought it was just V talking aloud, didn't notice Blackwing was contributing.

[Lord Torath]

I never noticed Kudzu reaching for Hilgya's dangling braid in panel 2 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1107.html).

[Ruck]

On strip #1044 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1044.html) Bandana mentions "Passage Pass", which is redundant because "Pass" and "Passage" mean the same thing. What I only noticed on the second read-through is that she mentions "Fissure Gap", which is exactly the same thing. In real life, people wouldn't name things redundantly like that. Except the River Avon, or the La Brea Tar Pits, or Table Mesa... okay, fine, I guess it only happens if you're in the Milky Way Galaxy.

A lot of OOTS locations are named like this. (Remember the time we spent in the Wooden Forest?)

[understatement]

I feel like it's been pointed out a lot, but in this strip (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0828.html) Redcloak is actually tugging his cloak over the phylactery in the last panel. Which begs the question why he put it on his left side of his belt and it somehow migrated to his right...?

Also, in the next strip (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0829.html) in the second panel the wights are just standing there, close to Tsukiko. I found that detail pretty creepy.

Second page, third panel (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0392.html), one of the crewmembers has an O-Chul-esque scar over his face.

[Fyraltari]

I feel like it's been pointed out a lot, but in this strip (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0828.html) Redcloak is actually tugging his cloak over the phylactery in the last panel. Which begs the question why he put it on his left side of his belt and it somehow migrated to his right...?
He handled it with his right hand and so put it on the right side of his belt. Noticing the possible danger he both cast with his right hand and hid the phylactery with his remaining (left) hand putting it on the left side of his cloak.

[understatement]

He handled it with his right hand and so put it on the right side of his belt. Noticing the possible danger he both cast with his right hand and hid the phylactery with his remaining (left) hand putting it on the left side of his cloak.

But in the penultimate panel it's seen that the phylactery hangs off on his right side of his belt. And later he takes out the phylactery from his right side too.

[Fyraltari]

But in the penultimate panel it's seen that the phylactery hangs off on his right side of his belt. And later he takes out the phylactery from his right side too.

Maybe he just reached that far behind his back?

[understatement]

Maybe he just reached that far behind his back?

And he did the entire thing behind the cloak?

:redcloak:Dexterity: 20+

[danielxcutter]

Tsukiko has problems finding “secret doors” that are literally in front of her. Even if she knew that was the phylactery - remember, it was originally Redcloak’s holy symbol, so outwardly it would likely look as a normal symbol of such - she probably would have failed the Spot check to notice it in the first place.

[understatement]

Tsukiko has problems finding “secret doors” that are literally in front of her. Even if she knew that was the phylactery - remember, it was originally Redcloak’s holy symbol, so outwardly it would likely look as a normal symbol of such - she probably would have failed the Spot check to notice it in the first place.

Good point.

Also...for the whole "Durkon destroying the oak table," was the table the third ring of defense? I can't find if they ever explicitly confirm it or not.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Also...for the whole "Durkon destroying the oak table," was the table the third ring of defense? I can't find if they ever explicitly confirm it or not.

No, the first ring of defence was the outside of the cave - a narrow bridge over a chasm. Second was the first barrier (anti-magic) with soldiers behind it. And the third the last barrier, that turned you to stone if you broke the rules.

Grey Wolf

[Fyraltari]

No, the first ring of defence was the outside of the cave - a narrow bridge over a chasm. Second was the first barrier (anti-magic) with soldiers behind it. And the third the last barrier, that turned you to stone if you broke the rules.

Grey Wolf

Alternatively:

1) Orange Barrier that keeps foreigners, magic and foreign magic away.

2) Guards in the stairway.

3) Blue Barrier to prevent foul play.

[Grey Watcher]

And he did the entire thing behind the cloak?

:redcloak:Dexterity: 20+

His pants clearly only have one back pocket, on the right side. Since he readied his magic in his dominant hand first, he was forced to twist a bit to put the phylactery in his back pocket with his only remaining free hand. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it, no matter how little sense modern pants pocket on medieval/Renaissance-esque armor makes. :smalltongue:

[Jasdoif]

At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it, no matter how little sense modern pants pocket on medieval/Renaissance-esque armor makes. :smalltongue:How else would a heavily-armored spellcaster be expected to have ready access to their spell components and focuses?

[Peelee]

Alternatively:

1) Orange Barrier that keeps foreigners, magic and foreign magic away.

2) Guards in the stairway.

3) Blue Barrier to prevent foul play.

Thats how I would call it.

[understatement]

His pants clearly only have one back pocket, on the right side. Since he readied his magic in his dominant hand first, he was forced to twist a bit to put the phylactery in his back pocket with his only remaining free hand. At least that's my story and I'm sticking to it, no matter how little sense modern pants pocket on medieval/Renaissance-esque armor makes. :smalltongue:

But...why? Also he's just hanging it on his belt. And I'm surprised he didn't tuck it away before teleporting back to a place he knows that Xykon and Tsukiko could be watching.

Good thing the hobgoblin 'janitor' had more than one pocket then, or else Tsukiko would have found something else along with a key.


No, the first ring of defence was the outside of the cave - a narrow bridge over a chasm. Second was the first barrier (anti-magic) with soldiers behind it. And the third the last barrier, that turned you to stone if you broke the rules.

Grey Wolf


Alternatively:

1) Orange Barrier that keeps foreigners, magic and foreign magic away.

2) Guards in the stairway.

3) Blue Barrier to prevent foul play.

Is there a comic strip where this is concretely mention? I thought the oak table might've been the "ring of defense" Durkon was talking about due to

a) it's a ring

b) the amount of rule-fu Durkon used meant only people familiar with the laws could use it to maximum effect. Durkon? Read that green book front and back. Gontor? Maybe skipped it over. Voila, Durkon wins.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Is there a comic strip where this is concretely mention?

No, but for my part, this one (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1157.html) says they are in the middle chamber and talks about the inner chamber being the meeting room, which implies an outer chamber as well, neatly matching Durkon's words of three rings of defence. It also explains the lack of safety handrails in the bridge.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

No, but for my part, this one (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1157.html) says they are in the middle chamber and talks about the inner chamber being the meeting room, which implies an outer chamber as well, neatly matching Durkon's words of three rings of defence. It also explains the lack of safety handrails in the bridge.

Grey Wolf

I never noticed that dwarves studied under the Imperial School of Civil Engineering at Coruscant.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Why would dwarves worry about railings? Proper folk are very Stable and will never go over the edge. It's the flighty leaf-eared ones who do silly things like that.

[Fyraltari]

I never noticed that dwarves studied under the Imperial School of Civil Engineering at Coruscant.

Please, they obviously studied at Narvi’s School of Architecture, Sculpture and Smithing in Moria. They are dwarves after all.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/7/7a/Bridge_of_Khazad-dum.png/revision/latest/top-crop/width/360/height/450?cb=20181025133326

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Why would dwarves worry about railings? Proper folk are very Stable and will never go over the edge. It's the flighty leaf-eared ones who do silly things like that.

Because tripping due to aching joints and falling to your death is not a honorable death.

And yes, I think you're not being serious, but the bridge is wide enough it is not dangerous for a few individuals in a small group. But it is a great defensive setup if a mob is clamoring for a representative government.

First ring of defence: anti-armies
Second ring of defence: anti-magic & foreigners
Third ring of defence: anti-antics

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Because tripping due to aching joints and falling to your death is not a honorable death.

And yes, I think you're not being serious, but the bridge is wide enough it is not dangerous for a few individuals in a small group. But it is a great defensive setup if a mob is clamoring for a representative government.

First ring of defence: anti-armies
Second ring of defence: anti-magic & foreigners
Third ring of defence: anti-antics

Grey Wolf

Unless the armies ride single file to hide their numbers!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Unless the armies ride single file to hide their numbers!

That'd be the intelligent thing to do.


The intelligence of that creature known as a crowd is the square root of the number of people in it.


the IQ of a mob is the IQ of its most stupid member divided by the number of mobsters

Grey Wolf

[Jasdoif]

Unless the armies ride single file to hide their numbers!Come to think of it, gaderffii (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Gaderffii) do (vaguely) resemble urgroshes (https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Urgrosh)....Maybe dwarves are a (distant) offshoot of the Sand People?

[Bedinsis]

I only noticed the... black thingies in the background on panel one of this page (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html).

I tried to figure out what it was by reading through earlier pages and later pages but alas, I failed.

My best guesses is that it is either more, smaller pieces of the zombie dragon also falling to the ground or shots from the catapults in the distance.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I only noticed the... black thingies in the background on panel one of this page (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html).

I tried to figure out what it was by reading through earlier pages and later pages but alas, I failed.

My best guesses is that it is either more, smaller pieces of the zombie dragon also falling to the ground or shots from the catapults in the distance.

Looks like arrows to me.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

I only noticed the... black thingies in the background on panel one of this page (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0442.html).

I tried to figure out what it was by reading through earlier pages and later pages but alas, I failed.

My best guesses is that it is either more, smaller pieces of the zombie dragon also falling to the ground or shots from the catapults in the distance.

You mean the arrows?

[Bedinsis]

You mean the arrows?
...I probably did.

[Draconian]

Something I hadn't realized initially (which I'm sure others had noticed): MITD apparently doesn't leave tracks in the snow when painting the doors (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1041.html)

[Quebbster]

Something I hadn't realized initially (which I'm sure others had noticed): MITD apparently doesn't leave tracks in the snow when painting the doors (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1041.html)
It's been discussed in the MitD thread, yes. Jury's still out on whether it is a clue or not though.
Fortunately this thread isn't called "Things no one noticed before". It would probably be much shorter if that was the case.

[Squire Doodad]

Julio is so focused on defense that he hasn't drawn blood - leading him to only do so (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0932.html) when Tarquin starts to put his attention on Elan again.

[137beth]

Right, but what I'm saying is that with an odd number of Northern gods before Hel had a high priest, those ties mean abstaining is a possibility.

I'm a bit late in responding (less than two months though), but do we know Dvalin ascended to demigodhood during this world? If not, it's possible there were more ties during Godsmoots in previous worlds, back when Hel had clerics.

After writing the above out but before submitting it, I remembered that one of the high priests brings snacks because they were there for the previous tie (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1016.html). So even if Dvalin didn't ascend during this world, there has been at least one other tie during this world's tenure.

Also, Rubyrock's explanation that the Council of Clans still exists, but is not the current Dwarven government (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html) makes it sound (to me, anyhow) like the Council of Clans has existed continuously since Dvalin was mortal, which precludes him being a holdover from a previous world, but I suppose it's possible that a previous world also had a dwarven council of clans.




Or...going further out on the limb of the barely-plausible, maybe the mortal predecessor of Dvalin never actually swore such an oath: maybe prior to this world, Dvalin would vote however he liked. But in this world, the dwarves are more honorable than in previous worlds (because Thor told them about the bet (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1083.html)), and so they believe that their ascendent former king would be just as honorable as them. Since gods are shaped by belief, Dvalin changed his behavior accordingly. The dwarves' belief also alterted Dvalin's memories of how he voted during previous worlds to match the justification he gave at the Moot (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1016.html).

Note: I make no claim that my hypothesis in the previous paragraph is likely, but I do not immediately see a way in which it can be completely ruled out using the text of the comic.

[Rogar Demonblud]

We really can't say anything, because anything people believe about Dvalin could've been baked in to the world's metaphysics when the place was created. For all we know, Dvalin's been around for the last 50,000 worlds.

[Squire Doodad]

Also, Rubyrock's explanation that the Council of Clans still exists, but is not the current Dwarven government (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1024.html) makes it sound (to me, anyhow) like the Council of Clans has existed continuously since Dvalin was mortal, which precludes him being a holdover from a previous world, but I suppose it's possible that a previous world also had a dwarven council of clans.

I can't recall if it's confirmed or just implied, but I took that to mean the former. Dvalin is probably from this world.
Not all gods make it through the interim period (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1144.html), so a demigod is less likely to have survived. Especially since the last batch of Northerners were apparently quite different from this one.

[Peelee]

That the Dark One might not be about to survive the transition to a new world, despite being an ascended full God with an entire race solely devoted to him, means that Dvalin is almost certainly from this world.

Not to mention he's the first king of the dwarves, so they presumably have a list going back to him. And, given that they never knew of previous worlds, that lost would be pretty airtight.

[Squire Doodad]

Not to mention he's the first king of the dwarves, so they presumably have a list going back to him. And, given that they never knew of previous worlds, that lost would be pretty airtight.

On the "first king" bit in particular, I imagine "First King of Dwarves" could be a title given to the "spiritual leader" of a race, much like calling Thor "Lord of Thunder". Similarly, you might call King Arthur "First King of Britain" given his iconic nature.

[Schroeswald]

On the "first king" bit in particular, I imagine "First King of Dwarves" could be a title given to the "spiritual leader" of a race, much like calling Thor "Lord of Thunder". You might call a deified King Arthur "First King of Britain" in such a scenario.

Isn't Arthur "supposed" to be the First King of Britain in a way though? Like he was supposedly the first king to rule over all of Britain (historically I'm pretty sure this wouldn't be accurate in any way but most of King Arthur is so wildly and clearly ahistorical this doesn't really matter)?

[Squire Doodad]

Isn't Arthur "supposed" to be the First King of Britain in a way though? Like he was supposedly the first king to rule over all of Britain (historically I'm pretty sure this wouldn't be accurate in any way but most of King Arthur is so wildly and clearly ahistorical this doesn't really matter)?

Wasn't King Uther Pendragon also ruling over all of Britain? I can't quite recall, but as you said there's lots of conflicting stuff about King Arthur, let alone the people before him in those same stories.

[Schroeswald]

Wasn't King Uther Pendragon also ruling over all of Britain? I can't quite recall, but as you said there's lots of conflicting stuff about King Arthur, let alone the people before him in those same stories.

I think Uther had a couple rival kings that Arthur defeated? But I'm not sure and that might just be me coming up with something for no reason whatsoever.

But yeah, Arthurian legend is very conflicting, especially because writers can't decide if they want to say that any of the story is real or not.

EDIT: Also, just realized that you just came back today, no wonder I hadn't noticed your sig during my "Read every post on the whole board" thing in awhile.

[hamishspence]

The notion of "many petty kings, ruled over by a high king" certainly has some precedent in Welsh history as well as Welsh mythology (Arthurian mythos originating from Wales).

However, the earliest iterations of Arthur, tend not to put him in that position - and suggest he may be a "leader of battles" (a general, basically) who led the armies on behalf of the kings.

[ti'esar]

That the DARK One might not be about to survive the transition to a new world, despite being an ascended full God with an entire race solely devoted to him, means that Dvalin is almost certainly from this world.

I'm trying to find a source for this, but I got the sense that being part of a pantheon helps a lot with having the faith energy necessary to survive transition.

(FWIW, I think Dvalin ascended during this world's existence, and the elven gods predate it.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I'm trying to find a source for this, but I got the sense that being part of a pantheon helps a lot with having the faith energy necessary to survive transition.

You may be thinking of this early strip (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0137.html).

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

You may be thinking of this early strip (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0137.html).

Grey Wolf

In which case, I would not take Elan's word on how it works.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

In which case, I would not take Elan's word on how it works.

Maybe not in the specifics, but on the broad sense, it is true that being part of a pantheon means you share the load - Thor stories of beating Loki gives him worship and belief, but also gives Loki belief, and the same is true about Loki stories - sure, they promote him (worship), but increases the belief across the whole pantheon, since the stories will involve the other gods, sooner or later. Heck, that has to be part of how Hel is surviving, since she lacks the priests to instill belief in her - she's dependent on every other priest of the North painting her as the Death god. But none of those stories involve the DO, so he gets none of the belief.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Maybe not in the specifics, but on the broad sense, it is true that being part of a pantheon means you share the load - Thor stories of beating Loki gives hims worship and belief, but also gives Loki belief, and the same is true about Loki stories - sure, they promote him (worship), but increases the belief across the whole pantheon, since the stories will involve the other gods, sooner or later. Heck, that has to be part of how Hel is surviving, since she lacks the priests to instill belief in her - she's dependent on every other priest of the North painting her as the Death god. But none of those stories involve the DO, so he gets none of the belief.

Grey Wolf

Fair point, but TDO still has all goblinoid belief regardless, and a fair share of fervent worship that is undivided.

I see no reason to believe Dvalin is not from this world. The elven gods we don't really know anything about, IIRC; are they demigods that only the elves really worship but were otherwise always in place, like Thrym or Surtur? Were they elves who ascended and became demigods? Don't know (and if we do know, I don't remember). In any event, I would contend that any ascended demigod

[Squire Doodad]

I think Uther had a couple rival kings that Arthur defeated? But I'm not sure and that might just be me coming up with something for no reason whatsoever.

But yeah, Arthurian legend is very conflicting, especially because writers can't decide if they want to say that any of the story is real or not.

EDIT: Also, just realized that you just came back today, no wonder I hadn't noticed your sig during my "Read every post on the whole board" thing in awhile.

Haha, glad to be remembered. Not sure if I'm going to be "back" much, just that I have too much time on my hands now.

[Vinyadan]

I never noticed why Rat is furious (1143): in SoD 42, he informs The Dark One about the Gates, and he is described as one of his few allies. So he had more reason than the rest of the Twelve to be angered by the Dark One's High Priest destroying Azure City.

[Squire Doodad]

I never noticed why Rat is furious (1143): in SoD 42, he informs The Dark One about the Gates, and he is described as one of his few allies. So he had more reason than the rest of the Twelve to be angered by the Dark One's High Priest destroying Azure City.

Good catch! It's interesting how Rich makes all the stories blend together that way.

[Fyraltari]

Fair point, but TDO still has all goblinoid belief regardless, and a fair share of fervent worship that is undivided.

I see no reason to believe Dvalin is not from this world. The elven gods we don't really know anything about, IIRC; are they demigods that only the elves really worship but were otherwise always in place, like Thrym or Surtur? Were they elves who ascended and became demigods? Don't know (and if we do know, I don't remember). In any event, I would contend that any ascended demigod

It seems to me that being in a pantheon is an effective survival tactic, if one’s worshipping base is split between several gods like the humans are but as it limits infighting between worshippers. Sure the priests of Loki and Thor aren’t happy about each other but on the whole the various temples of the northern gods are unlikely to try to drive out the competition from their territory when said competition is part of the pantheon and more likely to band together if some hot new cult tried to move on their turf. But since the Dark One is apprently the only one trying to get goblin worship, that’s no issue for him.

The Dark One (and Banjo) is the only god for whom we have an estimate of apotheosis and only the gods shown in the beginning of Shojo’s flashback (Odin, Marduk, Dragon, Thor, the Eastern Pantheon and a couple others) are certified as being there before the worlds. Surtur and Thrym might be ascended Giants for all we know.

[Peelee]

It seems to me that being in a pantheon is an effective survival tactic, if one’s worshipping base is split between several gods like the humans are but as it limits infighting between worshippers. Sure the priests of Loki and Thor aren’t happy about each other but on the whole the various temples of the northern gods are unlikely to try to drive out the competition from their territory when said competition is part of the pantheon and more likely to band together if some hot new cult tried to move on their turf. But since the Dark One is apprently the only one trying to get goblin worship, that’s no issue for him.

The Dark One (and Banjo) is the only god for whom we have an estimate of apotheosis and only the gods shown in the beginning of Shojo’s flashback (Odin, Marduk, Dragon, Thor, the Eastern Pantheon and a couple others) are certified as being there before the worlds. Surtur and Thrym might be ascended Giants for all we know.

They could indeed. But then why are there so few demigods? Given the uncountable worlds that have existed, even if only one in a million got a mortal to become a demigod, that would still work out to thousands, if not millions, of potential demigods variously. The two simplest answers to this are:
A.) apotheosis even to demigod state is so rare that it's practically unheard of - an answer which also assumes that Dvalin, First King of the Dwarves, who swore an oath to always abide by the will of the council.... wasn't, and didn't, which I am not a fan of - or
2.) demigods don't survive the transition to the new world.

[Fyraltari]

They could indeed. But then why are there so few demigods? Given the uncountable worlds that have existed, even if only one in a million got a mortal to become a demigod, that would still work out to thousands, if not millions, of potential demigods variously. The two simplest answers to this are:
A.) apotheosis even to demigod state is so rare that it's practically unheard of - an answer which also assumes that Dvalin, First King of the Dwarves, who swore an oath to always abide by the will of the council.... wasn't, and didn't, which I am not a fan of - or
2.) demigods don't survive the transition to the new world.

3) Pantheons only help a mortal achieve godhood when it is in their interest to do so. For example Dvalin may have been sponsored because Thor felt the need for the dwarves to have an ethnic god to help shoulder his burden of shield them from the Bet and when the mortal Dvalin died and the opportunity prensented itself he got enough relatives on-board with the idea.

[Rogar Demonblud]

The notion of "many petty kings, ruled over by a high king" certainly has some precedent in Welsh history as well as Welsh mythology (Arthurian mythos originating from Wales).

Irish too, under the High King of Tara. Reputedly, they had over a hundred kings when the Vikings showed up and began forced consolidation.

[Peelee]

3) Pantheons only help a mortal achieve godhood when it is in their interest to do so

Covered under the first possibility; regardless of why, it's still unimaginably rare, given how few there seem to be compared to how many worlds there have been. That does combat the assumption, I'll admit, but I don't find it particularly persuasive.

[Vinyadan]

I think we have seen part of the process to become a demigod: one of the believers contacts the clergy of a pantheon and asks for the "godling" to be admitted. If the gods agree and the request isn't retired, the godling becomes a demigod. In the case of the Northern Gods, the chief god (Odin) seems to have a special interest in new applications... or maybe just in puppets. https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0137.html

We also know what gods need to survive and that new gods may not make it through world iterations. https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1144.html

[Peelee]

I think we have seen part of the process to become a demigod: one of the believers contacts the clergy of a pantheon and asks for the "godling" to be admitted. If the gods agree and the request isn't retired, the godling becomes a demigod. In the case of the Northern Gods, the chief god (Odin) seems to have a special interest in new applications... or maybe just in puppets. https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0137.html

Odin's interest takes on a different meaning when we discover he is mentally compromised due to an older world's belief system. We don't know what Thor was saying, as he just declares the topic moot. So we don't actually know the process, I would argue.

[Fyraltari]

Covered under the first possibility; regardless of why, it's still unimaginably rare, given how few there seem to be compared to how many worlds there have been. That does combat the assumption, I'll admit, but I don't find it particularly persuasive.

So what if it’s rare? There are people who won the lottery twice or got struck by lightning a dozen times (including lightning strikes on their graves).

Also I refer you to Vaarsuvius’s assessment of the relationship between probability and drama.

[Lord Torath]

... much like calling Thor "Lord of Thunder"...God of Thunder! Seductive GOD of Thunder!

:smallwink:

[Peelee]

So what if it’s rare? There are people who won the lottery twice or got struck by lightning a dozen times (including lightning strikes on their graves).
"Rare things can happen" does not equate to "this specific rare thing has happened here." People have totally won the lottery twice. My neighbor Bob who just bought a Corvette probably did not win the lottery.

Also I refer you to Vaarsuvius’s assessment of the relationship between probability and drama.
And if there were any drama that revolved around demigods from prior worlds being able to survive to this world but so few had joined that there is still a relatively small pool but also are incredibly rare (arguably one of the rarest things to happen to a mortal in Stickworld) but more than one mortal ascended to godhood or demigodhood in this story, then yes, I would agree with you. But I would be flabbergasted if that was the case. "Mortals who rise to demigodhood being a rare case but also being able to be selected by pantheons when it suits them and they may or may not survive into other worlds once the Snarl breaks free but this specific one is so important the gods decided to incorporate him" is needlessly complex. "Mortals who rise to demigodhood don't survive the jump" is significantly simpler. Neither one has any more impact on the story than the other, neither one services drama more than the other, neither one is sheds any more relevant light on the story that the other, so why not pick the simpler one?

[137beth]

It's been discussed in the MitD thread, yes. Jury's still out on whether it is a clue or not though.
Fortunately this thread isn't called "Things no one noticed before". It would probably be much shorter if that was the case.
A "Things no one noticed before" thread would have a bunch of people posting things that they hadn't noticed before, and that they also hadn't noticed anyone else had noticed:smallsmile:


I'm trying to find a source for this, but I got the sense that being part of a pantheon helps a lot with having the faith energy necessary to survive transition.

(FWIW, I think Dvalin ascended during this world's existence, and the elven gods predate it.)


You may be thinking of this early strip (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0137.html).

Grey Wolf
You may also be thinking of Thor's words in the bottom-left panel of this more recent strip (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1144.html): "He hasn't been around long enough and hasn't had the followers of a whole pantheon believing in him."



They could indeed. But then why are there so few demigods? Given the uncountable worlds that have existed, even if only one in a million got a mortal to become a demigod, that would still work out to thousands, if not millions, of potential demigods variously. The two simplest answers to this are:
A.) apotheosis even to demigod state is so rare that it's practically unheard of - an answer which also assumes that Dvalin, First King of the Dwarves, who swore an oath to always abide by the will of the council.... wasn't, and didn't, which I am not a fan of - or
2.) demigods don't survive the transition to the new world.

That's a good point, and it makes the whole "Dvalin survived multiple worlds but doesn't remember doing so" even less likely, but still technically possible (as far as I can tell).

[Squire Doodad]

That's a good point, and it makes the whole "Dvalin survived multiple worlds but doesn't remember doing so" even less likely, but still technically possible (as far as I can tell).

That said, there's a point where "still technically possible" isn't really relevant. "A one in a million chance is almost guaranteed" doesn't quite apply when there's no value in having it be applied.

[b_jonas]

Not to mention he's the first king of the dwarves, so they presumably have a list going back to him. We have lists of kings going back to fictional kings in the real world.

[Peelee]

We have lists of kings going back to fictional kings in the real world.

We don't have creatures that can live thousands of years, or immortal beings, or magical spells that can reveal information, or divine beings, all of which can be used to verify the information is factual in the real world.

Stickworld does.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Nothing says those divine beings can't lie their beards off. Or that the data isn't baked into the world at creation.

[Peelee]

Nothing says those divine beings can't lie their beards off. Or that the data isn't baked into the world at creation.

The Lawful ones must act lawfully, at the very least. And it's not like they're the only ones available; long-lived creatures, immortal creatures, and magical spells to verify also exist. Just as a quick example, Legend Lore is a core spell.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Well if that's the case, Durkon should've just asked for the full download on the Gates and Rifts the day after they heard about them from Soon.

Lawful doesn't mean honest. And Legend Lore is just going to give you the results baked in by metaphysics, which again brings us back to how the gods set it up when they created the world.

Really, "don't know" is about as good as we can do for anything where the possibilities stretch too far back. Which is kind of nice, as it gives us something to discuss while Rich polishes the next strip.

[Peelee]

Well if that's the case, Durkon should've just asked for the full download on the Gates and Rifts the day after they heard about them from Soon.

Given how excited Thor was to toss the blackout rules aside for Minrah on the smallest bit of info she had, yeah, Durkon probably could have.

ETA: Further, there are more divine beings than just the gods, and those do not know about the Snarl and comms blackout policy and would have no reason to hamstring a question about royal lines of succession.

[Jasdoif]

Well if that's the case, Durkon should've just asked for the full download on the Gates and Rifts the day after they heard about them from Soon.Hmm...I wonder when Durkon figured out Thor doesn't respond to commune. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1148.html)

[Rogar Demonblud]

ETA: Further, there are more divine beings than just the gods, and those do not know about the Snarl and comms blackout policy and would have no reason to hamstring a question about royal lines of succession.

And they get mindwiped every reboot, so all they know is what was designed into the world when it was built. So if the gods build the world with a thousand year old line of kings of the dwarves starting with Dvalin, that's what they know.

[Peelee]

And they get mindwiped every reboot, so all they know is what was designed into the world when it was built. So if the gods build the world with a thousand year old line of kings of the dwarves starting with Dvalin, that's what they know.

IIRC, they seem to know when the world started, so having a pre-history built in would be...weird, to say the least.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Everything about this is weird. And I love it. Most people's worldbuilding is pretty bland.

[Peelee]

Everything about this is weird. And I love it. Most people's worldbuilding is pretty bland.

Totally fair. I also can't seem to find where I got the idea that the initial inhabitants knew they were the first ones, that just might be how I imagined the world right after creation.

[Kastor]

Today I realized that Durkon's middle name (Allotrope) is connected to his eventual vampirism.

Two states, made of the same base components, but two very different functions.

[SlashDash]

Just realized that - sorry can't post links from phone -

Tarquin's opinion on Bards in strip 821 was already mentioned waaaaaaay back in strip 50

[Peelee]

Just realized that - sorry can't post links from phone -

Tarquin's opinion on Bards in strip 821 was already mentioned waaaaaaay back in strip 50

That's ok, I can help!

Tarquin's opinion on Bards in strip 821 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html) was already mentioned waaaaaaay back in strip 50 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html)

[Cicciograna]

Thanks to SlashDash and Peelee I just noticed that the the strip numbering for strip 50 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0050.html) has a nice little comment on the number itself.

[understatement]

Here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0071.html), Celia mentions Dorukan has disappeared (aka died) 6 months ago (which also matches SOD's time stamp). And here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) Celia mentions the Cloister disappears and reappears with Xykon, but doesn't mention any breaks in between. (and Xykon couldn't have casted it after Celia departed the Dungeon, since Azure City was able to scry on the Order).

So, is it inferrable that Xykon's maximum level is ~26 weeks, or 26-27th level? This number also matches some of Xykon's higher-end level calculations.

[Quebbster]

Here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0071.html), Celia mentions Dorukan has disappeared (aka died) 6 months ago (which also matches SOD's time stamp). And here (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) Celia mentions the Cloister disappears and reappears with Xykon, but doesn't mention any breaks in between. (and Xykon couldn't have casted it after Celia departed the Dungeon, since Azure City was able to scry on the Order).

So, is it inferrable that Xykon's maximum level is ~26 weeks, or 26-27th level? This number also matches some of Xykon's higher-end level calculations.
Not really, Xykon moved into the dungeon pretty much immediately after killing Dorukan per Start of Darkness. Maybe it took a while before Celia noticed him and his minions.
Keep in mind that Celia's first appearance predates the Snarl plot, so any inconsistencies with later stories do not necessarily have a deeper meaning.

[understatement]

Not really, Xykon moved into the dungeon pretty much immediately after killing Dorukan per Start of Darkness. Maybe it took a while before Celia noticed him and his minions.
Keep in mind that Celia's first appearance predates the Snarl plot, so any inconsistencies with later stories do not necessarily have a deeper meaning.

EDIT: Whoops, I think I thought it out wrong. Assuming he doesn't renew the spell during his reign in the Dungeon, Xykon would be a minimum(?) of 26-27.

At the same time, I can't find a reason why Xykon would wait, say, any interval of time after mastering an epic spell. Does the SRD mention a minimum amount of time a sorcerer can learn an epic spell?

[Schroeswald]

That doesn't give any clear level, we don't know if Xykon ever recast the spell or how long it took for Xykon to master, it just says that happened after the six month mark.

[Dentarthur]

(stuff about the Cloister, ~26 weeks duration)

Where do you get the idea that the Cloister ended 26 weeks after Xykon's casting?

edit:


EDIT: Whoops, I think I thought it out wrong. Assuming he doesn't renew the spell during his reign in the Dungeon, Xykon would be a minimum(?) of 26-27.

Where do you get the idea that the cloister didn't end at that time?

[understatement]

Where do you get the idea that the Cloister ended 26 weeks after Xykon's casting?

Where do you get the idea that the cloister didn't end at that time?

I misspoke. I meant minimum.

Although I think the Cloister ended becase Azure City was able to scry on the wreckage (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html). I don't know if Xykon's destruction means the spell ends or not. If not, then I revise back to the maximum of 26. Cloister definitely 'ended' by the time the Order is at Azure City, because Celia is able to be reached with a multiplanar call.

[Squire Doodad]

I misspoke. I meant minimum.

Although I think the Cloister ended becase Azure City was able to scry on the wreckage (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0292.html). I don't know if Xykon's destruction means the spell ends or not. If not, then I revise back to the maximum of 26. Cloister definitely 'ended' by the time the Order is at Azure City, because Celia is able to be reached with a multiplanar call.

Given that it was described as suddenly vanishing and then reappearing when Xykon cast it (which suggests it completely vanished when Dorukan died...or that he died just a few weeks before he would have had to recast it, which seems unlikely), I'd assume Xykon's destruction ended Cloister as well.

[Dentarthur]

Yeah, the Cloister definitely ended with Xykon's destruction, as it had earlier with Dorukan's. There's no data to be gleaned here regarding anyone's caster level.

[understatement]

I assumed the spell would last, since Xykon is still technically 'alive'.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Technically Dorukan is still alive, since his soul is trapped in a small black gem instead of in the afterlife.

[deltamire]

Doing a re-read of Utterly Dwarfed, and I noticed on page 983 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0983.html) that Durkon refers to 'Thursday school'. The word Thursday is said to come from an Old English variant of 'Thor's Day' - so a bit of an equivalent of Sunday School, but showing how it's different to the Christian idea. It's a tiny little detail, but I think it's a fun worldbuilding aspect that highlights just how ingrained worship was in Durkon's life.

[Werbaer]

Doing a re-read of Utterly Dwarfed, and I noticed on page 983 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0983.html) that Durkon refers to 'Thursday school'. The word Thursday is said to come from an Old English variant of 'Thor's Day' - so a bit of an equivalent of Sunday School, but showing how it's different to the Christian idea. It's a tiny little detail, but I think it's a fun worldbuilding aspect that highlights just how ingrained worship was in Durkon's life.
And the holy day of Odin worshippers is Wednesday (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1089.html) (page 2, panel 2)

{scrubbed}

[understatement]

Phew, finally decided to buy a pdf of OOPCs. Yup, I'm 15 years late. I'll just comment on a few details here:



*Redcloak's intro was surprisingly wordy.
*Bozz(a)k calling Haley "baby" was definitely a :smallyuk: reaction.
*Eugene's a lot more 'nicer' than what the comic shows him (being dead does that to you).
*The Blood Oath scenes match SOD!
*Roy and Durkon's friendship is eternal.
*Aarindarius uses Bixby's instead of Bugsby.
*Several of the OOTS avatars came from here -- or is it the other way around?
*The Order really could've needed Buffy.
*Or Psteve.
*Elan's reaction to being hired is really damn sweet.

[ti'esar]

Eh, to judge from the Dungeon magazine continuity Psteve probably would have psucked.

[Squire Doodad]

Eh, to judge from the Dungeon magazine continuity Psteve probably would have psucked.

Also in the running were Peter, Pjoe, Penny, and Paul

[b_jonas]

The D&D 3.5 rules about potions say (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/potionsAndOils.htm) that a potion vial is a stoppered glass or ceramic bottle "no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high" that holds 1 ounce of liquid. That's physically implausible. Maybe that's part of why potions are magical.

[Peelee]

The D&D 3.5 rules about potions say (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/potionsAndOils.htm) that a potion vial is a stoppered glass or ceramic bottle "no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high" that holds 1 ounce of liquid. That's physically implausible. Maybe that's part of why potions are magical.

The bottles are bigger on the inside.

[danielxcutter]

The D&D 3.5 rules about potions say (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/potionsAndOils.htm) that a potion vial is a stoppered glass or ceramic bottle "no more than 1 inch wide and 2 inches high" that holds 1 ounce of liquid. That's physically implausible. Maybe that's part of why potions are magical.

...Explain.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

...Explain.

Let's assume a configuration that maximises internal volume for those parameters: a cylindrical bottle (shaped like a soda can) two UoM tall and one UoM in diameter has an internal volume of 1.57 cubic UoM - cubic inches, in this case. Google tells me that an ounce of water occupies 1.8 cubic inches, because Americans hate themselves, presumably. Getting 1.8 unit of measures into a vessel with 1.57 units of internal volume tends towards the tricky side.

That said, maybe every magic potion is (eyeballing) 30% denser than water, and thus their ounce volume is lower than water's?

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

Or, for a visual representation, this is bigger than a potion bottle:

https://cdnimg.webstaurantstore.com/images/products/large/16508/1495002.jpg

Google tells me that an ounce of water occupies 1.8 cubic inches, because Americans hate themselves
It's not that Americans hate themselves, it's that Americans hate other Americans. Take that, Americans!

[Jasdoif]

Google tells me that an ounce of water occupies 1.8 cubic inches, because Americans hate themselves, presumably.Aha! So a (US) fluid ounce is the volume of an ounce of water, approx 1.805 cubic inches....

[Peelee]

Google tells me that an ounce of water occupies 1.8 cubic inches, because Americans hate themselves, presumably.Aha! So a (US) fluid ounce is the volume of an ounce of water, approx 1.805 cubic inches....
So you're telling me than an ounce of water in US customary units is 1.80469 cubic inches? This would be so much better if I could easily find ridiculously more precise sigs. Alas.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Meanwhile, in the rest of the world, 1 ml (of water) = 1 cubic cm. By definition. Making this kind of calculation so much easier.

Grey Wolf

[Ron Miel]

...Explain.


Let's assume a configuration that maximises internal volume for those parameters: a cylindrical bottle (shaped like a soda can) two UoM tall and one UoM in diameter has an internal volume of 1.57 cubic UoM - cubic inches, in this case.

I'm not following that. A cylinder 2 inches high and 1 inch wide has a volume of 6.28 cubic inches, or 3.62 fluid ounces ... doesn't it? Even assuming thick walls and some space taken up by the stopper, there's still enough room for 1 fluid ounce of liquid.

[Jasdoif]

A cylinder 2 inches high and 1 inch wide has a volume of 6.28 cubic inches....One-inch wide is the diameter, the radius that goes into the formula for area (and volume) is half of that.

[Ron Miel]

Yeah, it's many years since I did any geometry. I was multiplying 2x the circumference of the circle, rather than 2x the surface area.

Still, a square bottle 1x1x2 = 2 cubic inches, which is just over a fluid ounce.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

a square bottle 1x1x2 = 2 cubic inches, which is just over a fluid ounce.

A square bottle is more than one inch wide - it is 1.41 inches at its widest point (the diagonals). The RAW given above is "no more than 1 inch wide".

Grey Wolf

[Jasdoif]

So you're telling me than an ounce of water in US customary units is 1.80469 cubic inches?Well....

A US gallon is defined as 231 cubic inches.
There are four quarts in a gallon, so a quart is exactly 57.75 cubic inches.
There are two pints in a quart, so a pint is exactly 28.875 cubic inches.
There are two cups in a pint, so a cup is exactly 14.4375 cubic inches.
There are eight fluid ounces in a cup, so a fluid ounce is exactly 1.8046875 cubic inches.


Still, a square bottle 1x1x2 = 2 cubic inches, which is just over a fluid ounce.Yeah; I'm fairly sure the "do numbers that resemble sense" editing pass came up with something along those lines, and then the "make it sound cool" editing pass changed it to a cylindrical shape without considering what that did to the numbers; as much as the books love their whole numbers, they tend to round correctly. Either that, or this was some really sad attempt to imply potions are denser than water.

[Peelee]

Well....

A US gallon is defined as 231 cubic inches.
There are four quarts in a gallon, so a quart is exactly 57.75 cubic inches.
There are two pints in a quart, so a pint is exactly 28.875 cubic inches.
There are two cups in a pint, so a cup is exactly 14.4375 cubic inches.
There are eight fluid ounces in a cup, so a fluid ounce is exactly 1.8046875 cubic inches.
https://media.tenor.com/images/1da2afa68bd2bc4a33b56a28537446bc/tenor.gif

Yeah; I'm fairly sure the "do numbers that resemble sense" editing pass came up with something along those lines, and then the "make it sound cool" editing pass changed it to a cylindrical shape without considering what that did to the numbers; as much as the books love their whole numbers, they tend to round correctly. Either that, or this was some really sad attempt to imply potions are denser than water.

I kind of glossed over those numbers, so I never really thought of a potion bottle being effectively a shotglass; i always just kind of figured they were roughly the size drawn in OOTS, ish. Though for that small size, rectangular/boxy bottles would be much better, IMO.

[Yendor]

Still, a square bottle 1x1x2 = 2 cubic inches, which is just over a fluid ounce.

That doesn't leave much room for the sides. That would be ten square inches (including the top), which would be less than a fiftieth of an inch thick. That seems perilously fragile.

On the other hand, the goods and services (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm) section describes vials as being three inches high. That sounds much more feasible.

[Fyraltari]

I’m to lazy to try and figure out how much that makes in sensible units but it seems to me (based on the dragon’s graphic) that the people who wrote this weren’t thinking ‘potion bottle’ but ‘potion vial’.


It's not that Americans hate themselves, it's that Americans hate other Americans. Take that, Americans!

You Americans sure are a contentious people.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Roughly 5 centimeters by 2.5 centimeters.

[Peelee]

You Americans sure are a contentious people.

You've just made an enemy for life.

[Jasdoif]

I’m to lazy to try and figure out how much that makes in sensible unitsI hear that from a lot of metric proponents (https://lmgtfy.com/?q=2+inches+to+mm).

[Peelee]

I hear that from a lot of metric proponents (https://lmgtfy.com/?q=2+inches+to+mm).

I'm not from South Central Los ****ing Angeles. I didn't come here to travel twenty miles per hour in a drive-by. I want a normal unit for a normal person.

No points to whoever gets the reference; your reward is the joy in having seen that movie.:smallwink:

[Fyraltari]

I hear that from a lot of metric proponents (https://lmgtfy.com/?q=2+inches+to+mm).

And your point is?

[Jasdoif]

I’m to lazy to try and figure out how much that makes in sensible unitsI hear that from a lot of metric proponents (https://lmgtfy.com/?q=2+inches+to+mm).And your point is?Pretty much what I posted: that I hear that from a lot of metric proponents, and that Google will convert a measure with negligible effort. Google doesn't really advertise that it'll convert units straight from the search bar, both to and from metric, and it's a real time saver.

[Fyraltari]

Pretty much what I posted: that I hear that from a lot of metric proponents, and that Google will convert a measure with negligible effort. Google doesn't really advertise that it'll convert units straight from the search bar, both to and from metric, and it's a real time saver.

First off, in general **** Google.

Second off, I precisely said I was too lazy to look up what it mapped to. But, that's the core point here, Peelee had already given a visual representation so I didn't need to. Because frankly knowing the exact measurement would not have helped in the least.

[Lord Torath]

It's not that Americans hate themselves, it's that Americans hate other Americans. Take that, Americans!Specifically, the raw materials suppliers hate the Engineers and Scientists.

Or maybe we just hate being told what to do by non-Americans, regardless of how sensible it might be. "You can't tell us what to do, SI! Who cares that it cost us a multi-billion125-million-dollar Mars probe? Who cares that Engineering and Science students want to tear out their hair when they start learning about derived units and unit conversions? We don't! So butt out, SI!" :smallannoyed: :smallmad: :smallmad: :smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfu rious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::s mallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfuri ous::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::sma llfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

But I'm not bitter.

[Peelee]

Specifically, the raw materials suppliers hate the Engineers and Scientists.

Or maybe we just hate being told what to do by non-Americans, regardless of how sensible it might be. "You can't tell us what to do, SI! Who cares that it cost us a multi-billion-dollar Mars probe? Who cares that Engineering and Science students want to tear out their hair when they start learning about derived units and unit conversions? We don't! So butt out, SI!" :smallannoyed: :smallmad: :smallmad: :smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfu rious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::s mallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfuri ous::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::sma llfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

But I'm not bitter.

Depends on the kind of engineer. US customary units are much easier to use when it comes to fractions, as they tend to be easily divisible by more numbers, so for most common engineering, it actually works quite well. Which is not to say I wouldn't mind if we swapped all over to metric and left USCU for the applications that actually use it effectively.

[Jasdoif]

Specifically, the raw materials suppliers hate the Engineers and Scientists.

Or maybe we just hate being told what to do by non-Americans, regardless of how sensible it might be. "You can't tell us what to do, SI! Who cares that it cost us a multi-billion125-million-dollar Mars probe? Who cares that Engineering and Science students want to tear out their hair when they start learning about derived units and unit conversions? We don't! So butt out, SI!" :smallannoyed: :smallmad: :smallmad: :smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfu rious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::s mallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfuri ous::smallfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious::sma llfurious::smallfurious::smallfurious:

But I'm not bitter.Personally, I think preferred units are a matter of culture, as well as of measure. Units are as important as the number they're associated with, and the people using them; and unit conversion is cultural acceptance given technical form: The idea that other people's thoughts and words are no less valuable solely for being made along different lines than your own, even if you don't understand why they're different; and with a little effort you can still understand what they're saying, and it's worthwhile. Like you say, an eighth-of-a-billion-dollar Mars probe was lost because some people only looked at the numbers and just assumed their units were the only one that could matter; and that was an incident that only cost dollars instead of lives.

[Peelee]

Personally, I think preferred units are a matter of culture, as well as of measure. Units are as important as the number they're associated with, and the people using them; and unit conversion is cultural acceptance given technical form: The idea that other people's thoughts and words are no less valuable solely for being made along different lines than your own, even if you don't understand why they're different; and with a little effort you can still understand what they're saying, and it's worthwhile. Like you say, an eighth-of-a-billion-dollar Mars probe was lost because some people only looked at the numbers and just assumed their units were the only one that could matter; and that was an incident that only cost dollars instead of lives.

Aye. The Mars probe disaster wasn't a "nobody should use USCU, everyone should use metric" issue, it was a "write the dang units!" issue. Which almost every basic math and science class I'd ever taken were consistently and uniformly insistent on.

[Lord Torath]

There was a bill passed in 1975 to convert the US to the metric system, but someone replaced the "within 10 years" phrase with "voluntary conversion". So nothing really happened. :smallmad:

[Fyraltari]

Aye. The Mars probe disaster wasn't a "nobody should use USCU, everyone should use metric" issue, it was a "write the dang units!" issue. Which almost every basic math and science class I'd ever taken were consistently and uniformly insistent on.

Actually it was more a "comment your goddamn code!" issue.

EDIT:

Personally, I think preferred units are a matter of culture, as well as of measure. Units are as important as the number they're associated with, and the people using them; and unit conversion is cultural acceptance given technical form: The idea that other people's thoughts and words are no less valuable solely for being made along different lines than your own, even if you don't understand why they're different; and with a little effort you can still understand what they're saying, and it's worthwhile. Like you say, an eighth-of-a-billion-dollar Mars probe was lost because some people only looked at the numbers and just assumed their units were the only one that could matter; and that was an incident that only cost dollars instead of lives.
The thing is systems having different origins doesn't mean some aren't objectively better made. For example, I think that the way we French say 70, 80 and 90 is stupid and we should use the Swiss and Belgian words for them because the one we use don't fit with the rest anymore. It would be hard to do because habits are hard to change, but if ther were a movement to do just that I'd support it.

Likewise the USCU are defined based on the SI units, most everybody else is already using the SI, whose mission statement is to belong to all of mankind as a whole rather than a single country and many people in the U.S. are already using the SI units especially in the fields of science because it eases communication and because theya re objectively easier to use for switching from length to volule to mass to force to energy or any other combination.

So really besides tradition is there a reason not to do complete the transition? because the longer it takes, the harder it will be to do most likely. I don't really care myself since I don't really have to deal with american units with anything resembling frequency, but I am curious.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Not even tradition is a good reason for not switching. Metric is so much f***ing simpler to use.

[Fyraltari]

Not even tradition is a good reason
Tradition is a terrible reason for most* things really.


*the exception being ‘as an excuse to party’ because there are no wrong reason to party.

[b_jonas]

I'm sorry. I didn't think my comment would spawn this flamewar. (If you wanted to know my opinion on this, (https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/06/07/open-thread-155-5/#comment-911161) see a recent post elsewhere.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If you wanted to know my opinion on this,[/url] see a recent post elsewhere.
[...]
I don’t understand why it is considered so backwards that Americans measure some lengths in inches and feet and yards and miles and some weights in ounces and pounds. Like, do a few different non-metric units make that much of a difference? Or is a unit especially bad just because it’s “imperial”?



It does make a difference, and it is not bad because it's imperial, it is bad because there is no unit continuity. For example, you are furbishing a road. You need to estimate how many safety guardrails you'll need. Each one is about, say, 60 inches long. The road is 150 miles long. How many will you need? Heck if anyone can tell. But if the road is 150 km long, and each guardrail is 60 cm long, then it is practically trivial. (this is an actual situation I was confronted with, except with gas pipelines. A bad conversion was giving the wrong numbers, but because there is an absurd number of inches to a miles, no-one knew the values were off until I converted everything to metric, and spotted that something was not in the ballpark).

Or, in my everyday life rather than professional one: I was trying to chlorinate my child's pool. If it is 80 cm to the side, and I filled it 25 cm deep, the volume in litres is simple enough, and thus the amount of chlorine that needs to go in. But if you measured it in inches (and let's say that it's a bigger one, and it is 80 inches to the side and 25 inches deep so that it's not the numbers that are the issue)... can any American even calculate how many gallons of water there are? Or do they need to go running to a private corporation to do their basic math for them? And this is not a place where you want to be off - chlorine is only safe between 2 and 5 parts per million. If you put in the wrong number of (checks)... quarter of teaspoons (!?) you could easily cause serious damage. And good luck to you if it turns out you need 3.28 quarters of teaspoon.

I don't give a damn if the base value is based on the size of the Earth or some dead king's shoe size. I care that I can trivially convert between lengths and volumes, and scale up and down without having to depend on having an Internet connection.

Grey Wolf

[Peelee]

can any American even calculate how many gallons of water there are? Or do they need to go running to a private corporation to do their basic math for them?

Oh, don't worry, they offer those conversions for a nice, flat fee! Or, well, they used to. Now they've moved to the subscription model. Turns out they can just demand money on a constant basis instead of only once. Innovation!

[jwhouk]

So essentially potions are bottles of Five Hour Energy.

[b_jonas]

Grey_Wolf: one commenter in this thread just gave 4 times the real volume for the cylinder, another commenter offered a cone that's two inches wide on its wider side as a shape that's no wider than one inch. Most people couldn't do the calculations that you mention anyway. I'm not saying that Americans are stupid or that their educations are bad, most Europeans who grew up here with the metric system also can't do those calculations, and will commit stupid mistakes.

I don't think uses inches makes it that much weird. I can remember that an inch is 0.0254 meters, a foot is 0.305 meters, and an ounce is usually either 0.028 liters or 0.028 kilograms, and can do calculations in my head with them, and the people who have to do these calculations and actually live in a place where they have to use these units are even more familiar with them. Most calculations aren't as simple as the ones you've picked, and you'll have to remember similar arbitrary constants for them anyway. In practice, I have to remember that my handspan is 0.023 meters long and a credit card is almost 0.10 meter long and an A4 paper is 0.279 meter times 0.210 meters long, because these are the ones I actually use for measuring distances because they're faster than getting a centimeter scale, even though I actually carry a centimeter scale in my backpack. I also have to remember approximately how much real money euros, US dollars, british pounds, swedish crowns are worth in real money (and ideal canadian dollars and australian dollars too, because some far east sellers use those on ebay), and those conversions even keep changing. Heck, I have to do conversions of time units and I'm supposed to know the numeric values for all the month names, and I make mistakes with the latter ones all the time, especially for August. The arbitrary constants that I need for eyeballing calculations aren't much better than what Americans need with their units.

[Peelee]

Grey_Wolf: one commenter in this thread just gave 4 times the real volume for the cylinder, another commenter offered a cone that's two inches wide on its wider side as a shape that's no wider than one inch.

A.) Truncated cone, if we're going to be semantic about things.
2.) Said truncated cone had the measurements clearly listed before you could even see it, and in addition, was explicitly called out as larger than a potion bottle. The example was intended as a reference point, something most people would be familiar with even if they do not use it, to help visualize how small a potion bottle would be, since it is even smaller than that (which, again, us why the measurements were clearly called out in advance).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Grey_Wolf: one commenter in this thread just gave 4 times the real volume for the cylinder, another commenter offered a cone that's two inches wide on its wider side as a shape that's no wider than one inch. Most people couldn't do the calculations that you mention anyway. I'm not saying that Americans are stupid or that their educations are bad, most Europeans who grew up here with the metric system also can't do those calculations, and will commit stupid mistakes.

Let's say those are universal mistakes (I disagree, but I'll grant you the point because I don't care). My point was that if you use metric, you realise that you made a mistake so much easier because the numbers convert and scale up so well. And therefore it is one less point where errors can occur. A metric user might still forget to divide the diameter by two when calculating the area of a circle, but they are not going to, say, transpose the digits of the conversion factor between cm3 and litres because there aren't any digits to transpose. The one mistake that can be made due to the unit of measurement in metric is the number of 0s, and the error size when that happens is literally in the orders of magnitude scale, and thus trivially noticeable.

Grey Wolf

[Squire Doodad]

Let's say those are universal mistakes (I disagree, but I'll grant you the point because I don't care). My point was that if you use metric, you realise that you made a mistake so much easier because the numbers convert and scale up so well. And therefore it is one less point where errors can occur. A metric user might still forget to divide the diameter by two when calculating the area of a circle, but they are not going to, say, transpose the digits of the conversion factor between cm3 and litres because there aren't any digits to transpose. The one mistake that can be made due to the unit of measurement in metric is the number of 0s, and the error size when that happens is literally in the orders of magnitude scale, and thus trivially noticeable.

Grey Wolf

It is easier to notice you have spare zeroes over a 52.80 multiplier...

[b_jonas]

2.) and in addition, was explicitly called out as larger than a potion bottle. The example was intended as a reference point, something most people would be familiar with even if they do not use it, to help visualize how small a potion bottle would be, since it is even smaller than that (which, again, us why the measurements were clearly called out in advance). Sorry, you're right. I misread your post. It did clearly say "this is bigger than a potion bottle".

[Vinyadan]

The thing is systems having different origins doesn't mean some aren't objectively better made. For example, I think that the way we French say 70, 80 and 90 is stupid and we should use the Swiss and Belgian words for them because the one we use don't fit with the rest anymore. It would be hard to do because habits are hard to change, but if ther were a movement to do just that I'd support it.

This reminds me of the Belgian druid Septantesix, who creates an invulnerability potion that lets you use your hands to pull fries out of boiling oil.

[danielxcutter]

This reminds me of the Belgian druid Septantesix, who creates an invulnerability potion that lets you use your hands to pull fries out of boiling oil.

...I’m sorry WHAT.

[Fyraltari]

This reminds me of the Belgian druid Septantesix, who creates an invulnerability potion that lets you use your hands to pull fries out of boiling oil.

And so, something good came out of htis whole discussion.

[Ron Miel]

...I’m sorry WHAT.

It's a reference to the Asterix books (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix). Specifically Asterix and the Goths (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix_and_the_Goths), IIRC.

[Fyraltari]

...I’m sorry WHAT.

Septantesix is so named because Belgians say 70 "septante six" while the French say (confusingly enough) "soixante-seize".

[Grey_Wolf_c]

... And also Belgium is the origin of what Americans call "French fries"*, so in Asterix comics, they are forever dunking potatoes in oil.

(If you are about to objet about potatoes not existing in Europe until 1500 years later, be aware that Asterix is unconcerned with your complaints about anachronisms)

ETA: how many posters does it take to explain an Asterix joke? Three, as it turns out.

Grey Wolf

* Wikipedia claims this is "disputed", FWIW

[Peelee]

... And also Belgium is the origin of what Americans call "French fries"*

* Wikipedia claims this is "disputed", FWIW

Not really, the "freedom fries" thing never caught on. HEYO!

[Fyraltari]

... And also Belgium is the origin of what Americans call "French fries"*, so in Asterix comics, they are forever dunking potatoes in oil.

(If you are about to objet about potatoes not existing in Europe until 1500 years later, be aware that Asterix is unconcerned with your complaints about anachronisms)

ETA: how many posters does it take to explain an Asterix joke? Three, as it turns out.

Grey Wolf

* Wikipedia claims this is "disputed", FWIW

Wether or not they invented it, the Belgians stereotypically eat more of those than we do.

Also potato in French is pomme de terre (ground apple) so French fries are often called pommes frites i.e. fried apples. In Astérix It is basically stated that they are frying slices of regular apples since they don’t have potatoes yet, much like the britons are drinking hot water with milk since they have no tea yet.

[Ron Miel]

... And also Belgium is the origin of what Americans call "French fries"*, so in Asterix comics, they are forever dunking potatoes in oil.

(If you are about to objet about potatoes not existing in Europe until 1500 years later, be aware that Asterix is unconcerned with your complaints about anachronisms)

I don't know about "forever", I can only think of two instances, and in neither case was it specifically identified as potatoes. At least it wasn't in the British translations. In Asterix and the Goths, a druid is shown pulling fried food out of boiling oil with his bare hands. In Asterix in Belgium someone invents "fried chipped root vegetables."

[Ron Miel]

. In Astérix It is basically stated that they are frying slices of regular apples

Is that in the original French? I don't remember it in the British translation.

[rostvoid]

Is that in the original French? I don't remember it in the British translation.

I'm sure it is in the french version. I remember the Belgian guy who see a Roman soldier faint ("tomber dans les pommes") while boiling oil. That when he thought it may be a good idea.
I 'm not sure it appears in the translated comics since I don't see any way to translate the joke.

[deltamire]

I'm sure it is in the french version. I remember the Belgian guy who see a Roman soldier faint ("tomber dans les pommes") while boiling oil. That when he thought it may be a good idea.
I 'm not sure it appears in the translated comics since I don't see any way to translate the joke.

The British (purchased in Ireland, but almost all of our international books share the same text with them anyhow) version of Asterix in Belgium's joke is that he talks about how a throwaway roman boiling oil is a 'mere vegetable rooted to the spot', and how he's got a chip on his shoulder. The combination of 'chips', 'root vegetables' and 'boiled in oil' all kind of spirals from there. The apple part must have gotten lost in translation, because we don't have the whole 'apples of the earth' connection between potatoes and apples.

(Jesus, looking through my old copy, these comics were just very enthusiastic about wordplay and puns. Does that carry on from the original French, or was it added post-translation?)

[danielxcutter]

The British (purchased in Ireland, but almost all of our international books share the same text with them anyhow) version of Asterix in Belgium's joke is that he talks about how a throwaway roman boiling oil is a 'mere vegetable rooted to the spot', and how he's got a chip on his shoulder. The combination of 'chips', 'root vegetables' and 'boiled in oil' all kind of spirals from there. The apple part must have gotten lost in translation, because we don't have the whole 'apples of the earth' connection between potatoes and apples.

(Jesus, looking through my old copy, these comics were just very enthusiastic about wordplay and puns. Does that carry on from the original French, or was it added post-translation?)

I’d imagine both to some extent, really. A lot of French puns probably don’t work in other languages, but it’s still possible to make puns in other languages that work in the situation (looking at you, Korean translation for Undertale) and the jokes that don’t rely on French probably work just fine.

[rostvoid]

(Jesus, looking through my old copy, these comics were just very enthusiastic about wordplay and puns. Does that carry on from the original French, or was it added post-translation?)
There is clearly a lot of puns in the French.


I’d imagine both to some extent, really. A lot of French puns probably don’t work in other languages, but it’s still possible to make puns in other languages that work in the situation (looking at you, Korean translation for Undertale) and the jokes that don’t rely on French probably work just fine.
That's the whole point of a good translation. But of course one can't translate all the subtleties of a puns...
What about Undertale ?

[Fyraltari]

(Jesus, looking through my old copy, these comics were just very enthusiastic about wordplay and puns. Does that carry on from the original French, or was it added post-translation?)

Oh god, you have no idea. Goscinny (the author) is all about puns, sometimes the setup for a pun takes almost the entire album (like the grognards joke from Astérix in Corsica).
That said, Iznogoud is the place where he really lets loose, it's hard to find a panel without a pun somewhere.

[danielxcutter]

There is clearly a lot of puns in the French.

That's the whole point of a good translation. But of course one can't translate all the subtleties of a puns...
What about Undertale ?

A lot of Sans’ bone puns translate pretty well into Korean. Go figure.

[b_jonas]

what Americans call "French fries"*

* Wikipedia claims this is "disputed", FWIW Not surprising. As far as I understand, the American call it "fries", the British just call them "chips", and the European have this stereotypical misconception that the American have to call them "French fries" because they are too dumb to understand what "chips" or "Pommes" means.

[Jasdoif]

Not surprising. As far as I understand, the American call it "fries", the British just call them "chips", and the European have this stereotypical misconception that the American have to call them "French fries" because they are too dumb to understand what "chips" or "Pommes" means.I still hear them called french fries, but it's nearly always shortened to just "fries", yes.

Potato chips, meanwhile are thin slices of potato that are fried (which I think are called "crisps" in British English). Tortilla chips are kind of similar in being thin, starch-based, and a common base for dips; but otherwise quite different, so "potato" doesn't get dropped as often for potato chips.

[b_jonas]

Potato chips, meanwhile are thin slices of potato that are fried (which I think are called "crisps" in British English). That's what Americans call "chips", not what the British call "chips". The British call these "crisps" because the word "chips" already has a pretty useful meaning.

[Jasdoif]

That's what Americans call "chips", not what the British call "chips".Yes, that's what we call "chips"; which is why I called them "chips".


The British call these "crisps" because the word "chips" already has a pretty useful meaning.I think it's the same thing here; we call that other variety of potato product "fries" because "chips" already has a different meaning for us.

Edit to add: Apparently, "french fries" in particular stems from American soldiers in Belgium, who nicknamed them "french fries" because the official language of the Belgian army at the time was French....and I imagine for the alliterative value of both words beginning with the same "fr" sound, which I also imagine is why it persists.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Not surprising. As far as I understand, the American call it "fries", the British just call them "chips", and the European have this stereotypical misconception that the American have to call them "French fries" because they are too dumb to understand what "chips" or "Pommes" means.

What's disputed is whether they are a French of Dutch invention. The naming of it is not in dispute, Peelee's joke aside.

Grey Wolf

[danielxcutter]

What’s not disputed is that they’re yummy.

[Jasdoif]

What’s not disputed is that they’re yummy.Usually! The occasional overly mild practically flavorless potato intended to be dipped into a superior sauce is almost an exception, but texture is important. The best fries are good on their own and can be improved with a sauce, of course.

Personally, I think fries pale next to the jojo (https://www.wweek.com/restaurants/reviews/2017/07/12/the-history-of-the-american-jojo-which-is-definitely-not-a-potato-wedge/); but that's a much more specialized potato product than fries, which can go alongside a much wider range of meals.

[danielxcutter]

Usually! The occasional overly mild practically flavorless potato intended to be dipped into a superior sauce is almost an exception, but texture is important. The best fries are good on their own and can be improved with a sauce, of course.

Personally, I think fries pale next to the jojo (https://www.wweek.com/restaurants/reviews/2017/07/12/the-history-of-the-american-jojo-which-is-definitely-not-a-potato-wedge/); but that's a much more specialized potato product than fries, which can go alongside a much wider range of meals.

That name is *quite* the target for memes, although since I’ve never had them I can’t say if it MUDAMUDAs the typical fry into oblivion myself.

[snowblizz]

What's disputed is whether they are a French of Dutch invention.

Grey Wolf

So they decided to split the difference and we all were told fries were a Belgian invention? #controversialhistoricaljoke



Speaking of, that particular fries joke in Asterix was also in the Swedish translation but sort of adapted. In Swedish they are known as pommes frites as well, despite noone actually knowing pommes are apples or that they refer to "earth apples" in French. The joke was something along the lines "Romans fell down, pom! pom! pom!" and later on they drag in boiling oil somewhere for an offhand request by one of the Belgian Gauls for oilfried something or other.

They keep going on about oysters as well, the pirates drag along a piece of their sunken ship with oysters on. That joke didn't translate well because I never understood the connection.


Generally the translations I've read have kept as much wordplay as possible though sometimes they miss the wider point and there's only a lame pun. It depends ofc on how much effort the translator put into it.

[Fyraltari]

They keep going on about oysters as well, the pirates drag along a piece of their sunken ship with oysters on. That joke didn't translate well because I never understood the connection.
In French it's mussels on the plank. Because mussels with fries is a traditional northern France/Belgian dish.

[snowblizz]

In French it's mussels on the plank. Because mussels with fries is a traditional northern France/Belgian dish.

Ah right, ok that seems to be what they were trying to go for then. Now you mention it mussels (I was probably remembering it wrong) and fries was mentioned. I guess they are sorta going for a "this is how it came to be" kind of "origin story" for the dish.

Little Mannekin who had to pee was a more easily understood reference.

[Fyraltari]

Ah right, ok that seems to be what they were trying to go for then. Now you mention it mussels (I was probably remembering it wrong) and fries was mentioned. I guess they are sorta going for a "this is how it came to be" kind of "origin story" for the dish.
Exactly.


Little Mannekin who had to pee was a more easily understood reference.

Well it's kind of an obvious one.

Say, the whole battle scene at the end is an obvious spoof of Hugo's Waterloo (who is also referenced some other times) I wonder how they translated that.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Say, the whole battle scene at the end is an obvious spoof of Hugo's Waterloo (who is also referenced some other times) I wonder how they translated that.

I don't recall that allusion but, having read Asterix in Spanish, French and English (what can I say, I found it the easiest thing to practice reading foreign languages with), I have to say that they are amazingly translated, given how hard the original material is. Pratchett, for example, fared significantly worse (into Spanish - never tried it in French).

Grey Wolf

[Quebbster]

I don't recall that allusion but, having read Asterix in Spanish, French and English (what can I say, I found it the easiest thing to practice reading foreign languages with), I have to say that they are amazingly translated, given how hard the original material is. Pratchett, for example, fared significantly worse (into Spanish - never tried it in French).

Grey Wolf

I have read a few in English and a handful in Danish besides Swedish and it's fascinating to see what details differ. The kid wants to take French classes next semester so I look forward to when he can explain all the French jokes to me.
And agreed about Pratchett. In the Swedish translation of Soul Music there is even a footnote where the translator says "Allright, I give up" and then explain the joke about Imp y Celyn.

[Fyraltari]

I don't recall that allusion but, having read Asterix in Spanish, French and English (what can I say, I found it the easiest thing to practice reading foreign languages with), I have to say that they are amazingly translated, given how hard the original material is. Pratchett, for example, fared significantly worse (into Spanish - never tried it in French).

Grey Wolf

Oh man, Pratchett's translation in French is ****ing great. The translator got an award for it and really deserved it. Not all jokes could be saved but a huge lot were and some were added (especially the running gag of DEATH's grammatical gender*) and some references were changed (all the welsh puns in Soul Music were turned into Breton puns, the name of the new Watch HQ became a reference to the seat of Paris Homicid Police Division, and so on). It also manages to read very close to the original style.

*See "la Mort" is feminine because most abstract things are but the character is male, so he is treated as masculine in sentences. Each book has an additional footnote the first time this happens and generallymake a joke (one who struck me was a pun on "necessary evil" become "necessary male" and one wondering how you don't know this by book XXXVIII. And there's this in Shepherd's crown:
"Alright, we're telling you again that DEATH is male. But this is the last time!"



Made me cry.

[Ron Miel]

Say, the whole battle scene at the end is an obvious spoof of Hugo's Waterloo (who is also referenced some other times) I wonder how they translated that.

In the British translation it used lines from Byron's The Eve of Waterloo (https://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/Classic%20Poems/Byron/the_eve_of_waterloo.htm).

[Fyraltari]

In the British translation it used lines from Byron's The Eve of Waterloo (https://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/Classic%20Poems/Byron/the_eve_of_waterloo.htm).

That makes perfect sense.

[Kastor]

Minrah Elle Shaleshoe's name when spoken aloud is just Mineral Shaleshoe

[deltamire]

The two separate flashbacks of Durkon getting chucked out of his home - one posted in 2006 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0305.html), the other far later in 2015 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1007.html) - are delightfully consistent with each other, down to the beard colours and armour of the dwarves doing said chucking, the snow on the ground, and even the style of the throw-out. It's also a fantastic representation of the sheer improvement the OOTS style has had in the ensuing years between them. It probably just took looking back to check that they were the same when drawing 1007, but Art Consistency always gets a smile from me.

I'm sure someone has posted this before in this very iteration of the thread, but I wanted to mention it anyhow.

[Fyraltari]

The two separate flashbacks of Durkon getting chucked out of his home - one posted in 2006 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0305.html), the other far later in 2015 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1007.html) - are delightfully consistent with each other, down to the beard colours and armour of the dwarves doing said chucking, the snow on the ground, and even the style of the throw-out. It's also a fantastic representation of the sheer improvement the OOTS style has had in the ensuing years between them. It probably just took looking back to check that they were the same when drawing 1007, but Art Consistency always gets a smile from me.

I'm sure someone has posted this before in this very iteration of the thread, but I wanted to mention it anyhow.

Fake, Durkon’s head was up the first time and down the second, 0/10, no continuity, unsubscribe.

:smalltongue:

[deltamire]

Fake, Durkon’s head was up the first time and down the second, 0/10, no continuity, unsubscribe.

:smalltongue:
Ah, see, that's actually all explained in comic. The 2015 version shows Durkon nearing the end of his arc (both in terms of velocity and in-comic AMIRITE) while the 2006 one is near the start, after just being thrown. It is perfectly logical and completely reasonable to assume that he had been yeeted hard enough to cause him to spin in the air. Like a golfball with heavy armour proficiency.

[snowblizz]

Say, the whole battle scene at the end is an obvious spoof of Hugo's Waterloo (who is also referenced some other times) I wonder how they translated that.

It's been too long since I read the Swedish translation (at around 18 years of age I stopped going to the local library's childrens' section, nowadays I pretend to be borrowing books for kids I don't have). And back when I read I wouldn't have known to compare it to Hugo or Byron. Ok I probably still wouldn't. In Swedish there would not be something similar to refrence I think. I must admit I might have to borrow all the Asterix during summer to have a go with the old books. If they still got them, much to my annoyance they removed the old Lucky Lukes and replaced them with combination volume series (if that makes sense) and it's not complete. I also found they Gaston but similarly waiting for them to release the new transaltion/compialtion volumes.

I remember a joke about a Roman officer going on about how the Guard would not surrender and the guard telling him that they were actually very much prepared to do so, and in fact w ellin the process of so doing thankyouverymuch. I believe there were some "winged words"* spoken by the officer at this point. *That is a Swedish term meaning famous quotations effectively. Alea Iacta Est, Veni Vidi Vici and so used often in the Asterix context.

Speaking of changes, I noticed when reading the new English translations they actually edited the pictures to remove the michelin man in of the albums and replace him with a small gaulish warrior. I guess to spare us the hidden advertisement.

Speaking of translations, sometimes authors actually do consider this. Don Rosa (famous Donald Duck comic writer for those who didn't know) discusses it in one of his preambles to an old story he wrote back when he didn't know there was an international market for DD comics. His early stories and this one in particular relies heavily on punning on various language puns, particulary egregiously on geology in the one am thinking of. He goes on for abit trying to explain the jokes, and then eventually concludes there's no point to that excersie, wishes the translator good luck, apologieses and hopes we get some fun original jokes instead. At another point he brings up how after starting to work "internationally" ie for European distributors he started removing pun jokes and adapting the format a bit so translators could fit the text better into the comics. To paraphrase, he would make textbubbles fit English, then make them a bit bigger, and finally add an entire line of space so it could be translated into Finnish "with it's impossibly long words").

[Quebbster]

It's been too long since I read the Swedish translation (at around 18 years of age I stopped going to the local library's childrens' section, nowadays I pretend to be borrowing books for kids I don't have). And back when I read I wouldn't have known to compare it to Hugo or Byron. Ok I probably still wouldn't. In Swedish there would not be something similar to refrence I think. I must admit I might have to borrow all the Asterix during summer to have a go with the old books. If they still got them, much to my annoyance they removed the old Lucky Lukes and replaced them with combination volume series (if that makes sense) and it's not complete. I also found they Gaston but similarly waiting for them to release the new transaltion/compialtion volumes.

I remember a joke about a Roman officer going on about how the Guard would not surrender and the guard telling him that they were actually very much prepared to do so, and in fact w ellin the process of so doing thankyouverymuch. I believe there were some "winged words"* spoken by the officer at this point. *That is a Swedish term meaning famous quotations effectively. Alea Iacta Est, Veni Vidi Vici and so used often in the Asterix context.

Speaking of changes, I noticed when reading the new English translations they actually edited the pictures to remove the michelin man in of the albums and replace him with a small gaulish warrior. I guess to spare us the hidden advertisement.

Speaking of translations, sometimes authors actually do consider this. Don Rosa (famous Donald Duck comic writer for those who didn't know) discusses it in one of his preambles to an old story he wrote back when he didn't know there was an international market for DD comics. His early stories and this one in particular relies heavily on punning on various language puns, particulary egregiously on geology in the one am thinking of. He goes on for abit trying to explain the jokes, and then eventually concludes there's no point to that excersie, wishes the translator good luck, apologieses and hopes we get some fun original jokes instead. At another point he brings up how after starting to work "internationally" ie for European distributors he started removing pun jokes and adapting the format a bit so translators could fit the text better into the comics. To paraphrase, he would make textbubbles fit English, then make them a bit bigger, and finally add an entire line of space so it could be translated into Finnish "with it's impossibly long words").
The collected editions of Asterix arequite good, lots of explanations of the various in-jokes. Not quite as good as the latest editions of the Adventures of Tintin though, they really go into a lot of detail there.
Regarding the Michelin Man, the gaulish warrior is/was apparently the mascot of a french oil company and was replaced with a more familiar mascot in certain international editions. More info here (https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=488487).
The Don Rosa commentary is quite good too. I didn't mind all the rock jokes when I first read it so I think the translator did quite a good job with the translation.

[Fyraltari]

I remember a joke about a Roman officer going on about how the Guard would not surrender and the guard telling him that they were actually very much prepared to do so, and in fact w ellin the process of so doing thankyouverymuch. I believe there were some "winged words"* spoken by the officer at this point. *That is a Swedish term meaning famous quotations effectively. Alea Iacta Est, Veni Vidi Vici and so used often in the Asterix context.

One of the most oft-repeated anecdotes of Waterloo (at least in France) is the last stand of the Old Guard, whose leader, General Cambronne was ordered by the British to surrender and replied ‘the Guard dies, but does not surrender’, or alternatively ‘****’ which is sometimes called Cambronne’s word. This is referenced by Hugo’s poem.

However, that was most likely fabricated by newspaper looking for drama as Cambronne did survive the battle and denied having ever said either thing, even pointing out that ‘I did not die and did surrender’.

[Ron Miel]

and replied ... ‘****’ which is sometimes called Cambronne’s word.

Noisettes?

[deltamire]

The boot the lawyers use in 280 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0280.html) is the same one Eugene uses in 525 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0525.html) to literally punt Roy out of the afterlife. An aftereffect of an art style that benefits from objects looking similar, or a complex web of shared information between Eugene and the Lawyers, inspired by when Eugene used his illustrations to pretend to be a being of pure law and goodness at the trial they're involved in? A secret lost to the ages, indeed.

[Fyraltari]

Noisettes?
Hahaha!

Nope.

[snowblizz]

One of the most oft-repeated anecdotes of Waterloo (at least in France) is the last stand of the Old Guard, whose leader, General Cambronne was ordered by the British to surrender and replied ‘the Guard dies, but does not surrender’, or alternatively ‘****’ which is sometimes called Cambronne’s word. This is referenced by Hugo’s poem.

However, that was most likely fabricated by newspaper looking for drama as Cambronne did survive the battle and denied having ever said either thing, even pointing out that ‘I did not die and did surrender’.

Oh. Well you know what. That is probably *exactly* what the Swedish translation uses. I do know I sorta understood they were in some sense alluding to Waterloo but I never could exactly place it. The Guard dies, but it does not surrender. Yea, that rings so many bells even the hunchback of Notre Dame would be deafened.



The collected editions of Asterix arequite good, lots of explanations of the various in-jokes. Not quite as good as the latest editions of the Adventures of Tintin though, they really go into a lot of detail there.
Regarding the Michelin Man, the gaulish warrior is/was apparently the mascot of a french oil company and was replaced with a more familiar mascot in certain international editions. More info here (https://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=488487).
The Don Rosa commentary is quite good too. I didn't mind all the rock jokes when I first read it so I think the translator did quite a good job with the translation.
That link was interesintg. So in other words the Swedish translation I read in my youth was the unedited one. Though I have to say it looked like someone had messed with the picture just there in the copy I read. So then I mistakenly figured the Michelin man was the original when I saw the English version! The twists and plots! Stuff like this is why I'd like to get my hands on these collection annotated editions.

Funnily enough I've been reading a complete edition (some in progress of being published/translated into my language now) of Spirou, Gaston and Lucky Luke respectively. I saw there was a similar set of books for Tintin but I didn't go for it. Now I must keep an eye out for Asterix. Would love to read that with backstories etc attached. Some of these are quite recent efforts of translation into Swedish so I guess may have to wait. The Gaston series is only 3 volumes in so far, latest one had arrived at the library in april.
I'm worried they are going to be splitting the collection though. I found several volumes of newly made collection of Carl Bark's works and that has been divvied up among several local branch libraries.

[LadyEowyn]

EDIT: Wrong thread

[snowblizz]

EDIT: Wrong thread

Yea, it's not the MitD thread.

[Fyraltari]

Funnily enough I've been reading a complete edition (some in progress of being published/translated into my language now) of Spirou, Gaston and Lucky Luke respectively. I saw there was a similar set of books for Tintin but I didn't go for it. Now I must keep an eye out for Asterix. Would love to read that with backstories etc attached.

Another interesting bit from Astérix in Belgium at one point towards the end it starts raining and the rain doesn’t stop until the final panel (the traditional banquet). This is because these are the panels Uderzo worked on after the death of Goscinny.

In the last panel you can see a sad-looking rabbit walking away from the party. This is because Goscinny’s wife used a rabbit-based nickname for him.

[Schroeswald]

EDIT: Wrong thread


Yea, it's not the MitD thread.

Wait, did LadyEowyn actually send a message to this thread instead of the MitD thread? I love it.

[TheWombatOfDoom]

Wait, did LadyEowyn actually send a message to this thread instead of the MitD thread? I love it.

My one fear about the title has been confirmed. But also, it seems right on the money for Things You Never Noticed, so yeah...

[snowblizz]

Wait, did LadyEowyn actually send a message to this thread instead of the MitD thread? I love it.


My one fear about the title has been confirmed. But also, it seems right on the money for Things You Never Noticed, so yeah...

Actually... there's no proof for that. I was making a joke referring our thread title mainly. I saw the "Wrong Thread" edit text only and couldn't help myself from making the joke. Because I thought it'd be hilarious if indeed that was the case.

Update: Well I did what I was going to, but didn't yesterday (as I couldn't find it ironically enough) and check the MitD thread. And yes 2 minutes later LadyEowyn posted in the actual MitD thread. I'd call that confirmation.

The fact it actually happened makes the thread titel worth it just on that alone.

:elan:I'm a future psychic!:elan:

[Wizard_Lizard]

To be fair I've almost been caught out on the thread name.

[Neponde]

I'm sure this has been noted before, but I never realized Kudzu has a beard.

[Quebbster]

I don't think I noticed Jirix backing away from Xykon (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0543.html) in the first panel of the second page. I assume it's to avoid Xykon's paralyzing touch.

[Ron Miel]

I think that if you're standing close to someone, and they suddenly fling out their arm, you are likely to flinch. Even if the don't have a paralysing touch.

How does paralysing touch work, anyway? Is it automatic, i.e. anyone Xykon touches is paralysed, or does he have to deliberately activate it? To put it another way, can he touch someone without paralysing them?

[Vinyadan]

I think that if you're standing close to someone, and they suddenly fling out their arm, you are likely to flinch. Even if the don't have a paralysing touch.

How does paralysing touch work, anyway? Is it automatic, i.e. anyone Xykon touches is paralysed, or does he have to deliberately activate it? To put it another way, can he touch someone without paralysing them?

Well yea,

He can kill them.

[LadyEowyn]

Wait, did LadyEowyn actually send a message to this thread instead of the MitD thread? I love it.
*sigh* I totally did.

In fairness, you put MITD in the thread name, it’s an easy mistake to make in a hurry!

[Fyraltari]

I think that if you're standing close to someone, and they suddenly fling out their arm, you are likely to flinch. Even if the don't have a paralysing touch.

How does paralysing touch work, anyway? Is it automatic, i.e. anyone Xykon touches is paralysed, or does he have to deliberately activate it? To put it another way, can he touch someone without paralysing them?

Yes. (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0832.html)

EDIT: unrelated. I never noticed that panel 8 (https://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0963.html) sort of came true.