Dex Cleric/Rogue?

[Mud Puppy]

Hi all,

I just saw a meme a few minutes ago that got me thinking and I figured I would ask here first....

Has anyone ever done a Dexterity based Cleric or Cleric/Rogue multi-class?

Thematically, I am thinking about a NG aligned Inquisitor or Investigator. In addition to the meme I saw, I just finished reading a short story where a society was governed by a theocracy that used "inquisitors" (specially trained priests/priestesses as a police force). These folks weren't the heavily armed paladin type, but more of a slinking through the shadows to gather information and investigate "evil doers" and then unleashing the divine magic of their god to right the wrong or defend themselves.

How would this work in 5e specifically? What about race? If straight Cleric, what subclass?

[airless_wing]

I've seen it done before: I DM'ed a one-off with one player being a Cleric-Rogue Multiclass (I believe it was 5 cleric, 3 rogue). They went Trickery Domain, which is very helpful with their Stealth Advantage. Combine that with stealth expertise, and they could sneak basically undetected, which certainly helped them in the dungeon crawl bit.

They had a blast: they kept Animating fallen enemies and position them to proc Sneak Attack more often, as well as have some HP meat shields.

That game required everyone to be a specific, home-brew race, but Wood Elf seems to be an obvious suitable fit for it.

[stoutstien]

For pure cleric or rogue multiclass I'd go knowledge domain. 1/2 of the kit of the Inquisitor is gathering information and rooting out secrets so mind-reading and such.

[nickl_2000]

Knowledge Cleric goes really well with pretty much any class, as does Arcana cleric.

A Cleric dip of 1 into Arcana domain grants
2 Wizard Cantrip
3 Cleric Cantrip (guidance)
Multiple Rituals including detect magic
Arcana Skill Prof
and 2 level 1 cleric spells including healing word and bless.


That can be combined really well with pretty much any rogue with great effect.

[Ventruenox]

Without going to 3rd party products, consider a Rogue Mastermind 5/Order Domain Cleric X. Variant Human, Wood Elf, and Firbolg are good racial choices; Acolyte or Inquisitive backgrounds.

Out of the box, it makes for an excellent warlord. You can support your allies in combat, then give them extra attacks and advantage. Aside from lacking access to certain spells like Detect Thoughts, having spell options like Command and Zone of Truth will combine well with the Expertise you put into Insight. Guidance as one of your cantrips will make you pretty reliable with all ability checks. Thaumaturgy can help you RP your divine authority.

You should have plenty to keep you busy both in and out of combat with this mix.

[Quietus]

My wife is playing a dex based wood elf arcana cleric, and having a blast with it. It's a great way to get that feel of an elf mixing magic and melee with no need for multiclass or anything.

[Mud Puppy]

Thanks folks!

I was leaning towards Wood Elf myself, so it's nice to see a consensus there.

I'm thinking Rogue 3 (Inquisitive) then multi-classing into Cleric 4 (Knowledge) right now.

[Arkhios]

If your DM isn't afraid to try out a homebrew, may I implore you to look at my signature.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Hi all,

I just saw a meme a few minutes ago that got me thinking and I figured I would ask here first....

Has anyone ever done a Dexterity based Cleric or Cleric/Rogue multi-class?

Thematically, I am thinking about a NG aligned Inquisitor or Investigator. In addition to the meme I saw, I just finished reading a short story where a society was governed by a theocracy that used "inquisitors" (specially trained priests/priestesses as a police force). These folks weren't the heavily armed paladin type, but more of a slinking through the shadows to gather information and investigate "evil doers" and then unleashing the divine magic of their god to right the wrong or defend themselves.

How would this work in 5e specifically? What about race? If straight Cleric, what subclass?


Oh yes, Dex Clrric/Rogue is one of my favorites.

I did a knowledge domain cleric mixed with a mastetmind rogue.

It's hard to go wrong but I liked my Water Genasi or Hill Dwarf for it (dex dwarf is hilarious).

At least Rogue 4, everything else in Cleric unless you need more Rogue for something or othrr.

[MrStabby]

The two classes don't particularly compliment each other... although they are not actively bad.

To tick off the three options - cleric dip on rogue, rogue dip on cleric and significant levels in both...

Rogue dip in cleric.

Well a single level dip of rogue gets you skills, expertise and sneak attack. If you think you are going to be frequently making attacks that extra D6 will see play, although you do need finesse weapons. Expertise really dependson the role you are looking to fill. Shieldmaster knockdown strength character? If you can afford the dex for multiclass then the level dip for expertise in athletics is worth taking. Also don't knock grappling two people and holding them inside your spirit guardians area.

A second level gets you cunning action... a great ability but I think it benefits the cleric a little less than other classes. Spiritual weapon is a solid use of a bonus action already, your spells should give you some ranged options so the need to close is less severe. On top of this you are likely to not be the squishiest of characters with things like cleric armour so the disengage is less useful. On the other hand the ability is just so powerful that even if you use it less, it is still really good.

A third level is getting out of dip territory but it gives us some subclass options as well as a sneak attack boost. Arcane trickster gives us a broader range of spells and for those clerics not wanting to spend a feat or be arcana clerics can give us the important wizard cantrips. Rogue + Booming blade is quite rightly popular. Add on top some great spells like shield that you can use to protect your concentration saves and access to utility spells like identify and disguise self and you nicely shore up some weaknesses. Oh, and I guess another spell level.

Swashbuckler... well Cha is getting abitMAD for what it gives you but slipping away afteran attack might suit some clerics. This saving on a disengage bonus action is nice - booming blade attack with 2d6 sneak attack and a spiritual weapon attack is good - a spell attack should still deny that opportunity attack.

Thief - less appealing. Fast hands is good but ads a bit less to a cleric as they can use spells for a lot of the effects a thief would go for.

Scout - Some cool stuff here. The survivalist skills will depend on your campaign, but fluff-wise they are really nice for a nature cleric. Skirmisher is funny though. If you think that the grapple+spirit guardians is nice, then you might also enjoy being able to move them about as well - with your reaction move you can drag them towards their friends to catch even more people in the effect.

Assassin is either rubbish or overpowerd depending on your team. If you have a stealth team and you often surprise your enemies then a critical hit on an inflict wounds from your highest level spell slot will do obscene damage... or you never get to use the ability.

Inquisitive is probably awesome if you are considering it - if you are considering it you are probably running a more social campaign. Knowledge cleric with a splash of inquisative will be powerful. The eye for detain and ear for deceit class features play into your likely high wisdom. Insightful fighting is nice to have and again uses wisdom - although I would have hoped you would have founda way to sneak attack anyway.

Mastermind is similar to the inquisitive in that it will shine in a social campaign. If you want to play up the cleric as a support character than this can help although I don't see much special here.

Cleric dip in a rogue class

The cleric is another really easy class to dip. Access to armour and shields, spellcasting with a massive number of spells available and those spells opening up new functions... its all great, especially if your rogue wouldn't be using their concentration anyway. Usual guff about awesome low level cleric spells... bless healing word etc.. There is a lot of content to cover in the first few levels though as there is domain content in abundance.



So what do we get:
Arcana - wizard cantrips, going to be really useful if you don't have a way to pick up booming blade such as being an arcane trickster or a high elf/half elf/magic initiate. Depending on who else you have in the party access to detect magic could be useful. Magic missile is niche but as you don't really have any similar spells it doesnt overlap. The beauty of these are that none of them key off wisdom. If you want to leave it at 13 then little loss. As the best level 1 cleric spells are probably healing word (where the difference between a tiny heal and half of that is functionally small) and bless you can save some of your stats. Level 2 sees a nice channel divinity, if somewhat niche. This stays useful though unlike say the life cleric one where the healing quantity becomes pretty irrelevant after a while. If your campaign is likely to feature elementals of fey or fiends... or even hostile celestials this is worth picking up. Generally the turn undead is pretty good as well (although similarly niche). At third level you get second level spells and your domain spells again don't need wisdom. You can do without wisdom on second level spells but you actually start to miss out on some good stuff if you do - no spiritual weapon but you can use aid (doesnt really scale that well) but things like silence, enhance ability, and augury remain relevant into the higher levels.

Death - seems like a bit of a waste. Not particular synergy or options opened, no shoring up of weaknesses or filling in gaps. Reaper is using your action... but you are investing more levels in getting good sneak attack and probably have a good ranged weapon anyway. The domain doesnt add much; spells of note are ray of sickness and ray of enfeeblement which are at least attack rolls. Something to consider as you can get advantage here, possibly a nice addition to an assassin, although if you were do do this combination I would say an assassin minor and death cleric major would be the way to go. Touch of death... yeah more damage is always nice to have on hand but with just a couple of levels it won't really blow anyone away, especially considering you are losing a sneak attack die to get it.

Forge - another campaign dependant one, not just due to it mattering if there are magic items in abundance but also who or what else is in the party and the type of problems you will face. A dip here gets you a little arcane coverage with identify, a second level gets you artisan's blessing which might be what you are needing if you are fighting fiends in a low magic item world. Third level is kind of awesome though as you get access to heat metal, which is really, really good. Gets you heavy armour; remember that dwarfs don't need strength for armour usage so feel free to dump it if you want.


Grave - I never really got into this subclass; others like it so I might be missing something. A more limited paladin detect good and evil? Might be good if there is no paladin, there boost to healing from 0 hp, but with a cleric dip there wont be many spell slots for this and it is a bit situational. Path to the grave is possibly worth taking depending on the party composition - paladins rogues and other single big hitters here. If you are in a campaign/party composition that supports assassins and assassinate ability then the combination of critical hits, vulnerability and sneak attack damage will pretty much instantly kill most things. Alternatively landing a massive inflict wounds also works... at least you will have a rogue in the party if it is you.

Knowledge - a dip in knowledge has been covered by others. Expertise is cool in the right campaign, skills from the CD are good as well. Of note is also that command is on the spell list. Not only can you use it to trigger attacks of opportunity (which you can use your reaction for on your turn) but you can also use it to get advantage. Sure, it isn't that often per day but potentially very cool if you can get yourself and a couple of others lined up for a set of attacks of opportunity for massive damage.

Life - gets you heavy armour. Not to be sniffed at if that's your style - see previous on dwarf. Some improved healing, not that you will have many spell slots for it. Channel divinity can keep your party alive at low levels but will fade later in the game. Domain spells are good, but you would be likely to pick up the ones of interest anyway. Not seeing a lot of attraction to this domain to be honest.

Light - warding flare is less useful here as you will relatively quickly get uncanny dodge, another reaction based defensive manoeuvre. Radiance of the dawn wont scale well on the damage front. The one good thing about is dip is fairy fire. A great debuff to really help the party, extra good vs invisible creatures and all from a level 1 slot and with a rogue you will really like that advantage.. I can see a level 1 dip but not more. Damage spells just are not so useful when you are partnering with a class that will quickly be able to do more damage at will.

Nature - one of the classics for dipping as it lets you use wisdom for attacks... which is of less use here as neither clubs nor quarterstaves are finesse weapons. That said heavy armour is heavy armour still. An extra skill will still have value, and occasionally, very occasionally you might want to use thorn whip. Channel divinity isn't great - although, as with anything this situational it could be good in the right campaign. I would probably skip it as the domain spells are not the kind of thing to really hold on to.

Order - well, one of the more powerful domains. Right off the bat you get heavy armour an a skill. Voice of authority is crazy good - buffing your team or healing them now generates damage from allies - sure you won't have a lot of spell slots but this still does quite nicely. You don't even need to use an action to do it - a bonus action spell like healing word will do it. This is particularly relevant if you are using a rogue for most of your levels - healing word being a bonus action limits your other spells to cantrips but when you can use a powerful attack action instead it is much less of a cap. Shield of faith a front-liner and you can generate a worthwhile advantage. The Channel Divinity also rocks - charmed is pretty weak as a condition but dropping weapons is pretty significant. Use an object interaction to pick them up and then either fast hands or mage hand legerdemain to disarm a second combatant.

Tempest - a popular domain and with good reason as this has a lot going on. Sadly, nothing much I spot to interact with rogue levels. Good proficiency from a 1 level dip but no real extra cool abilities. The reaction damage won't scale well enough for it to be appreciated. 2nd level destructive wrath is pretty pointless as you won't be doing that much thunder or lightning damage unless you find a way to change the damage type of sneak attack (if it worked on psychic then shadow blade would be awesome). And the domain spells? You will have a better use of your action if you want to do damage and the other spells don't offer a huge amount.

Trickery - So in many ways this is the obvious dip. And yeah... you would be right. Blessing of the trickster is a bit meh on a cleric. You are a bit stealthy, sure but it isn't everything. On the other hand if your cleric/rogue is in a party with a ranger, a barbarian and a monk and you can give the barbarian advantage on stealth then suddenly the assassin option for the rogue side shoots from being a poor, poor choice to something very dangerous indeed. Level 2 gets you the wonderful invoke duplicity as a channel divinity - really useful source of advantage and a great boost to sneak attacks as well as being generally useful for trickery. It does boost the attraction of certain options such as elvish accuracy when you have a solid source of advantage.

War - Like tempest you kick off with the best proficiency; unlike tempest it offers a little more - not a huge amount but a bit. Bonus action attacks from war priest? Not bad - saves dual wielding to get a second chance to land those sneak attacks. Likewise guided strike is a perfect way to land that single massive sneak attack. There isn't that much glamorous going on in the class but one level adds quite a bit.


Significant investment in both classes

OK, so there is no way I am running through every combination of subclasses and writing 84 thoughts. There would be a lot of overlap anyway. There is only one I really wanted to cover and that is one that I think I might look to play for my next campaign.

Order cleric 6, Arcane Trickster 5 to start with. Race probably hill dwarf.

So we covered off some of the beauty that order cleric brings. A CD that lets you disarm multiple opponents, heavy armour, a skill and voice of authority to trigger a second attack when you cast a spell. Taking more levels in cleric does a few things. Level six gives us a second CD per short rest - if something is worth abusing it is worth abusing hard. Level 6 also gives us the Embodiment of Law ability that lets us change the casting time of enchantment spells to a bonus action a number of times equal to our wisdom modifier. Normally this would allow the cleric to cast another cantrip (big whoop), but when you either back that cantrip up with sneak attack damage (booming blade style) or just use an attack action that has those added anyway you are laying down some serious pain. Now... if that enchantment spell was hold person then your sneak attacking booming blade attack is a critical hit on top.

Even the bread and butter of being a cleric is massively enhanced. Throw down the humble bless and pick which of your team-mates makes an extra attack AND make an attack yourself because you cast it as a bonus action.

Cast command on someone to make them flee, sneak attack them the same turn then sneak attack them on their turn as they run away. Anyone think of a one word instruction to get someone to walk away and come back? Triggering spirit guardians damage twice on one turn (once for starting in it and once the first time the enter) and sneak attack damage on an opportunity attack would be brutal.

The arcane trickster levels give me mage hand, booming blade and minor illusion by third level, cunning action, and a few sneak attack dice. Spells are going to largely be a bit iffy due to needing intelligence. So Shield is probably a must (help keep concentration). At level 5 I should be contributing enough to damage to get by with sneak attacks, booming blades and the like. Uncanny dodge should turn my armoured cleric into a bit of a tank (and further help keep concentration).

Further... Cleric to level 8 gets an ASI, some psychic damage, access to banishment and the ever funny compulsion spell. Or AT to 7 for evasion and maybe to 9 for forcing disadvantage on saves...






Oh yes, Dex Clrric/Rogue is one of my favorites.

I did a knowledge domain cleric mixed with a mastetmind rogue.

It's hard to go wrong but I liked my Water Genasi or Hill Dwarf for it (dex dwarf is hilarious).

At least Rogue 4, everything else in Cleric unless you need more Rogue for something or othrr.

I am honestly surprised not taking mastermind to 5 - extra sneak attack is not bad but the reaction to prevent damage seems important for concentration checks against big attacks?

[Meichrob7]

Not sure if this is what you’re looking for but there’s a super strong And flavorful/thematic cleric rogue combo that deserves a mention at least.

Grave Cleric 3
Assassin 17

Works really well thematically with a “church as militarily/politically powerful organization” and with a setting with corruption in religious organizations. The church having trained assassins that are used to quiet dissent is a terrifying but kinda plausible thought.

If you don’t want it to be dark, dnd offers a slightly less grimes/gritty reason for the church to train assassins because they could be providing a service to the community by killing monsters.

The character could also be a fanatic who is totally separate from their church if you don’t wanna deal with the implications of religious militia.

Ideally you’d grab something like a hat of disguise and convince your dm to let you roll stealth in a crowd even if you didn’t have full cover from line of sight. It’s not strictly RAW but when you consider that wood elves can hide anywhere if it’s raining or snowing or even if peeves are falling, it doesn’t seem outside the bounds of RAI.

I do honestly think the thematic synergy is good here but from a power gaming perspective it’s nice as well.

You’d probably want to start 1 cleric for story reasons, I’d imagine most backstories would have you be a cleric first then trained to kill, not a killer turned religious (tho that could be interesting too).

After that you’d want to get 3/4 levels of rogue assassin (depends on if you rolled high stats or not) before snagging the second level of cleric and gaining access to Channel divinity: Path to the grave. This is what makes this strong as a combo because if you’re hidden enough to trigger surprise you’ll probably have enough time to spend an action using this channel divinity option. Even without surprise a rogue has the highest damage per attack so you’ll gain more benefit from activating the path to the grave curse than anyone else would.

Once the main combo is together, probably focus on rogue levels to increase sneak attack dice. The last cleric level should be take eventually but it’s largely based on how well your stealth rolls are going. The main benefit of cleric3/rogue17 over cleric2/rogue18 is that you gain access to second level spells like darkness or invisibility that help you be stealthy enough to reliably get surprise attacks off.

Another fun option would be arcane trickster and trickery domain rogue. Mechanically there’s not incredible synergy there but thematically it fits amazingly well. You could also still have some fun combos by doing things like using mage hand to get advantage on spell attacks fired off by an invoke duplicity clone. Rogue uncanny dodge would also make you tankier than a normal trickery cleric would probably be so the “if you and the clone are within 5ft of an enemy you get advantage” benefit becomes more practical to use, and loops back into having synergy with rogue as a base class as it lets you activate sneak attack.

[No brains]

I played a single-classed elf trickery cleric with high dex. It worked out pretty well, though I was kind of the opposite of an inquisitor. Criminal background helped me find footing as a pseudo-rogue to either help or fill in for our normal rogue.

Maybe the War cleric's normally underwhelming bonus action attack could be good on a rogue multiclass. It can replicate two weapon fighting while allowing you to use a shield and rapier.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I am honestly surprised not taking mastermind to 5 - extra sneak attack is not bad but the reaction to prevent damage seems important for concentration checks against big attacks?

Concentration checks aren't too much of an issue. 4 is the minimum rogue levels you wpuld want to take to flesh things out well. Three levels for all the juicy stuff and then an ASI to boost an ability score or grab a feat.

5 is very nice, yes, but more Cleric levels are worth more than uncanny dodge.

[Speely]

For that character concept, I really like starting Rogue to Inquisitive 6 for the skills and tool proiciencies, serviceable SA damage, ASI, expertise ×2, and uncanny dodge.

After that, all Knowledge Cleric. Wood Elf is great, but if your stats allow it, sneak in the Magic Initiate (Wizard) feat asap for BB/GFB and Find Familiar. Increased DPR and info-gathering potential.

I can see the story around it, too. An investigator type who turns to a deity for greater insight and ways to counter the wicked ways of supernatural/unnatural enemies.

Hell, this sounds like a fun build! What's also great is that Wood Elf gives you both greater mobility, more hiding options, and Longbow proficiency to mitigate some of your AC limitations (all while adding to both of your most important stats.)

[KillingTime]

Currently playing a tabaxi character with Trickery Cleric 8/ Rogue 1
Rolled stats
12/16/14/12/18/14
Took rogue first for skills and dex, then took resilient Wis at cleric 4, and warcaster at cleric 8.
Now that I've hit Lvl5 spells I'll probably grab another couple of levels of rogue to get an archetype (inquisitive probs) and then back to Cleric.

She's pretty cool.
She's tough enough to hang out near the front with the bruisers and nimble enough to act as a scout.
She's got a boatload of useful support options, and can handle herself in a fight too.

Definitely a very satisfying character to play.